StarTopic Donkey Kong Community |ST| No Country For Old Kongs

[Ylork]

So I just watched this video. Looks like Donkey Kong Country Returns Switch port is missing a significant amount of visual effects from the old Wii version. Honestly I'll likely just pass on this probably overpriced remaster if they can't even match the Wii visuals in HD. I hope this gets fixed because this is really terrible. What a disappointmen!

It's a shame.

Luigi's Mansion 2 HD has been criticized, but the work is much better than Donkey Kong Country Return, which is based on the Wii version....

I know Forever Entertainment's reputation, but I don't understand how Nintendo can let this go. How they can trust them ? I sincerely hope these issues be fixed before its release.

 

[KCannon]

This is the kind of thing that has me potentially shifting my thoughts on Nintendo perhaps simply being ignorant of K Rool's popularity (hence why his inclusion in Smash had to be fan driven) to wondering if there really is a strong internal resistance to utilizing Rare era elements for one reason or another. Given the strong success of Ultimate, taking advantage of something like for the theme park seems like it would make sense, but there appears to be an insistence on stuff like the Tiki tribe beyond just convenience.

I'm also curious how much push and pull there was with the Mario movie in light of this; was stuff like the Diddy/Dixie scene at Nintendo's suggestion or Universal's?

I'm not sure why Diddy/Dixie would be vetoed by Nintendo since they're still relevant to the brand. Maybe Chunky's cameo was, but it's not like he is that distinct from the other generic Kongs in the film, so he fit just fine. Something like Candy or Lanky would definitely stick out in comparison due to lacking the gorilla build.

Also, It's not surprising whatsoever that Nintendo wants Retro's duology to be "the" look of the series. That's the stuff they made in-house and it's mostly consistent with Paon's designs, to the point Paon's Funky and Cranky became their default looks as well. Ellie is one of those designs without a modern counterpart, so it's not surprising she was vetoed.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

So here's something a little interesting (also a bit unfortunate) insight into the creation of Super Nintendo World from a user on ResetEra who worked on the Minecraft Universal Studios map and thus was able to talk to folk from Universal Creative.

Metroid Prime 4 BEYOND - First Trailer - Releases 2025 News - Nintendo

Hope they give Sylux his own game where he does nothing, gets beat up a lot, and then halfway through the game, Samus becomes playable and then the game turns into Metroid Prime 5.

www.resetera.com

Nothing super mind blowing here but yeah, it confirms what certain folks have figured, especially with Ellie the Elephant appearing in the diorama concept only to be dropped in the final land: Universal actually did want to celebrate and represent more of DK's history with more Rare elements like K. Rool but Nintendo strong-armed them to be based purely on the Retro games, Tikis and everything. Universal were also under similar constraints with the Mario area being primarily based on 3D Land/World, though apparently it was slightly easier to use other stuff (probably referring to the Yoshi's Island elements, I guess). Pretty obvious, but yeah, a bummer.

As for the park aesthetics and general vibe I understand to go for DKCR, but not allowing at least someone there with a K. Rool costume for meet and greet sessions? That's just stupid..

Nintendo's lack of awareness of the character popularity is not even more of a factor; and they probably know how generally folks think the Tikis are lame as heck as well.

I just really hope this pays off in a grand return of the Kremlings in the next mainline game; Because right now, it seems just more and more reason to be uncertain..

I legitimately wonder how the people who made that DK calendar from some years back were able to include K. Rool.

As far as I can tell, this is literally the only appearance K. Rool has made in modern officially licensed DK material since like, 2008 (barring Smash obviously).

That's just sad that all we can get is fucking calendar... K. Rool being the month april feels even more of a joke now.

 

[KCannon]

I personally do not think Nintendo is wrong for trying to prop up their own characters over Rare's, especially out of respect for their own studios. Jungle Beat went too far in trying to erase even Diddy as well, while Paon had no real ideas besides just redesigning Rare's characters, so Retro works as a nice middle ground of old and new content.

 

[Hibby]

So here's something a little interesting (also a bit unfortunate) insight into the creation of Super Nintendo World from a user on ResetEra who worked on the Minecraft Universal Studios map and thus was able to talk to folk from Universal Creative.

Metroid Prime 4 BEYOND - First Trailer - Releases 2025 News - Nintendo

Hope they give Sylux his own game where he does nothing, gets beat up a lot, and then halfway through the game, Samus becomes playable and then the game turns into Metroid Prime 5.

www.resetera.com

Nothing super mind blowing here but yeah, it confirms what certain folks have figured, especially with Ellie the Elephant appearing in the diorama concept only to be dropped in the final land: Universal actually did want to celebrate and represent more of DK's history with more Rare elements like K. Rool but Nintendo strong-armed them to be based purely on the Retro games, Tikis and everything. Universal were also under similar constraints with the Mario area being primarily based on 3D Land/World, though apparently it was slightly easier to use other stuff (probably referring to the Yoshi's Island elements, I guess). Pretty obvious, but yeah, a bummer.

I'm pretty confident these mandates might be gone by now, despite how much this stings to read today. Supposedly DK is back at EPD, and just look at the TTYD remake. Hopefully Tanabe is kept far away from those series going forward.

I personally do not think Nintendo is wrong for trying to prop up their own characters over Rare's, especially out of respect for their own studios. Jungle Beat went too far in trying to erase even Diddy as well, while Paon had no real ideas besides just redesigning Rare's characters, so Retro works as a nice middle ground of old and new content.

Totally. I can get that perspective, I also just don't understand how Nintendo can think a series that's cracked over 10 million life sales can have it's villain stripped from it without fans throwing a stink.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I personally do not think Nintendo is wrong for trying to prop up their own characters over Rare's, especially out of respect for their own studios. Jungle Beat went too far in trying to erase even Diddy as well, while Paon had no real ideas besides just redesigning Rare's characters, so Retro works as a nice middle ground of old and new content.

I'm sorry, I don't think Retro do a good balance of old and new.. in fact, the old is barely there. In this regard, Paon titles were much, much better.. they introduced cool new characters like Xananab, Kalypso and Kludge that fit perfectly with the existing cast and still kept the iconography of the series and lots of familiar faces, even if just be there to fill the world with life.

Retro games are all function over charm. Let Candy appear in the Options menu when you change the volume settings, you know? Let other Animal Buddies be rideable again besides Rambi... get actual throwable barrels in levels besides the Kong Barrels and make up new types.. All those things and more...

 

[APileofBananas]

I'm not too surprised that Nintendo wasn't too keen on using K. Rool considering his last appearance was 15 years ago outside of Smash Bros. Pretty clear that they want the modern interpretation of these franchises with the Mario segment being mostly based on 3D World. If we ever got a Zelda segment, it's likely going to based on the BOTW/TOTK style with minimal references to anything else (no Tingle walk-around character : ( )

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I don't want to wear a tinfoil hat for something just so stupidly small, but the lack of Jungle Hijinx from Smash4 in Ultimate always felt odd to me.. I shrugged as it could had been issues with Stage Morph that prevented it to be implemented, but on the back of my head I always felt like if could be something like Nintendo simply not wanting to have K. Rool running around in an environment of modern DKC.... But seeing how stubborn they can be, that's not too far fetch to assume.

That was also one of DK's best stages in Smash, and so it stings even more.

 

[Mekanos]

I personally do not think Nintendo is wrong for trying to prop up their own characters over Rare's, especially out of respect for their own studios. Jungle Beat went too far in trying to erase even Diddy as well, while Paon had no real ideas besides just redesigning Rare's characters, so Retro works as a nice middle ground of old and new content.

But they are Nintendo’s characters now. They own them.

 

[KCannon]

I'm sorry, I don't think Retro do a good balance of old and new.. in fact, the old is barely there. In this regard, Paon titles were much, much better.. they introduced cool new characters like Xananab, Kalypso and Kludge that fit perfectly with the existing cast and still kept the iconography of the series and lots of familiar faces, even if just be there to fill the world with life.

Retro games are all function over charm. Let Candy appear in the Options menu when you change the volume settings, you know? Let other Animal Buddies be rideable again besides Rambi... get actual throwable barrels in levels besides the Kong Barrels and make up new types.. All those things and more...

Sorry, but I cannot take seriously that you think fuckin' Xananab is cool.

Also not keen on Paon's Kremling OC's, especially since they obviously just exist to give rivals to the Kongs. Does anyone seriously remember Kippy(?) and Kroc-Dixie? Kludge is like a poor man's Krusha (the peak Kremling design).

Retro is a good balance because they have the major Kongs (DK, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky and Funky), the recurring elements like KONG letters, DK Barrels and bonus levels, Rambi and Squawks, and the music. It's a relatively nice amount of old elements that mix up with newer ones and they don't go overboard with it. Even K. Rool can be included in this manner due to Ultimate slowly reintroducing him to a new audience.

I really do think the series should not be beholden to stuff introduced way back from people that aren't there anymore, especially since game design has evolved a lot since then and having individual characters that only existed to provide obsolete features is not a thing anymore. Otherwise you just get a Yoshi situation where the current developers are afraid to try anything new that deviates from what Island established back in 95.

 

[KCannon]

But they are Nintendo’s characters now. They own them.

They do, but they didn't create them. And I think that's a relevant point. Nintendo also owns most the Mario RPG characters, but it's not like they're willing to use them in their own EPD games.

Retro should be allowed to carve their own identity in the series without needing to rely on Rare's creations. Returns and Tropical Freeze for all intents and purposes proved you don't really need Rare's elements in significant proportions to be successful.

I'm betting EPD's game, if it exists, will do the same.

 

[StretchNStripes]

Unfortunate about the park being affected in that way, Returns is fine but it basically has nothing to pull from outside the main Kongs, Rambi, and the Tikis. Which, to be fair, I like the Tikis well enough. But, being able to pull from more things is pretty much always better. It's not like Ellie would be confusing for people unfamiliar with Donkey Kong, most people can fill in the blanks and be like "Oh, an elephant in a jungle, that checks out..."

I'd love to see a bit more consistency with the world. But I also don't just want Donkey Kong to become "Rare's Greatest Hits: The Game", either. Sprinkling some older things like more animal buddies and Kongs like Lanky returning, but also keeping a heavy focus on new characters and concepts is definitely the key for the series to grow.

Because not all the new stuff has been bad! At least, in my opinion. The evil Kongs and new animal buddies from Jungle Beat were fun, the Tikis are fine, the Snowmads were kind of cool, the new OC Kremlings from Barrel Blast were neat. I want to see creativity like that continue with additions that keep Donkey Kong's world feeling a bit less like each game takes place in some vacuum, separate from one another.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Xananab is cool as fuck, what the hell?!

I'd take him over the Banana Fairies and Banana Birds from the Rare games even lol

 

[Mekanos]

They do, but they didn't create them. And I think that's a relevant point. Nintendo also owns most the Mario RPG characters, but it's not like they're willing to use them in their own EPD games.

Retro should be allowed to carve their own identity in the series without needing to rely on Rare's creations. Returns and Tropical Freeze for all intents and purposes proved you don't really need Rare's elements in significant proportions to be successful.

I'm betting EPD's game, if it exists, will do the same.

Yes, and it’s a design philosophy that I disagree with. There is nothing wrong with introducing new elements and characters. The problem is when we only get a new game once in a blue moon and we are left waiting to see if/when the older characters will reappear again. Nintendo actively mandating their exclusion comes off less as wanting to carve their own path and more micromanaging nonsense that corporations love to stamp out any personality or quirks from their IPs. Let’s hope they aren’t so strict in the next DK game that may or may not come out in the next decade.

 

[KCannon]

Xananab is cool as fuck, what the hell?!

I'd take him over the Banana Fairies and Banana Birds from the Rare games even lol

Sure. I'm not advocating for those monstrosities either.

But Xananab is so... basic. Literally just a banana peel with Banjo-esque googly eyes. Even his English name is just somebody thinking his original Japanese one is too lame ("Planet Banana Person").

 

[CyberWolfBia]

But Xananab is so... basic. Literally just a banana peel with Banjo-esque googly eyes.

You can't be any cooler than that.

 

[legendofIrishlink]

New here but big Nintendo fan as well as a Universal parks fan

I'm not sure if I buy that minecraft source about Universal Creative pushing hard for K.Rool, considering the land was already fully designed before K.rool even got into Smash considering the model leaked around the same time. It's possible they would want to try and swap Tiki Tong out but it seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth considering it would delay the ride/land considering Tiki Tong directly affects the ride experience according to credible Universal Park reporter Alica Stella.

Though I supposed they could have tried getting him a mascot costume meet&Greet but I mean not even Bowser has one and he would obviously be a bigger experience with general public due to being more well known

 

[boodream]

It's a shame.

Luigi's Mansion 2 HD has been criticised, but it is much better than Donkey Kong Country Return, which is based on the Wii version. ....

I know Forever Entertainment's reputation, but I don't understand how Nintendo can let this go. How can you trust them? I sincerely hope that these problems will be fixed before release.

This is simply unacceptable, especially for a game that will be sold at full price. I think the port is based on the 3DS version and not the Wii version, as the shadow detail shows. This would make sense, given that DKCRHD will include 3DS content. I sincerely hope that the final version of the game will be more polished. Even if it's a fast port, even if it's clearly intended as an add-on project by Nintendo, such a lack of finish would simply be disappointing.

I'm wondering, in practical terms, how you port a 3DS game to Switch. I mean, do you use the same code that you're rewriting, or do you rewrite it complementarily? What tools does this require? What skills does it require? How much time does it take? Is it a problem of lack of supervision or guidelines from EPD?

 

[Mekanos]

New here but big Nintendo fan as well as a Universal parks fan

I'm not sure if I buy that minecraft source about Universal Creative pushing hard for K.Rool, considering the land was already fully designed before K.rool even got into Smash considering the model leaked around the same time. It's possible they would want to try and swap Tiki Tong out but it seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth considering it would delay the ride/land considering Tiki Tong directly affects the ride experience according to credible Universal Park reporter Alica Stella

Yeah, to be clear I am taking this rumor with a pretty big grain of salt. A random ResetERA poster isn’t much to go on. I can believe they might have a contact at Universal, but these kind of rumors often have a big telephone game going on. It certainly does add tension to an already tense fanbase, but at the end of the day it’s just a rumor, informed speculation at best.

 

[Brock Reiher]

I also like Xananab.

Maybe Nintendo thinks K Rool’s final send off in 64 was too perfect to mess with.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

New here but big Nintendo fan as well as a Universal parks fan

I'm not sure if I buy that minecraft source about Universal Creative pushing hard for K.Rool, considering the land was already fully designed before K.rool even got into Smash considering the model leaked around the same time. It's possible they would want to try and swap Tiki Tong out but it seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth considering it would delay the ride/land considering Tiki Tong directly affects the ride experience according to credible Universal Park reporter Alica Stella.

Though I supposed they could have tried getting him a mascot costume meet&Greet but I mean not even Bowser has one and he would obviously be a bigger experience with general public due to being more well known

Welcome aboard, and I'm sorry if you had to drop by during such a mess of emotions; But hopefully you will be around here when the next game finally arrives!

On the matter of replacing Tikis with Kremlings, I also think that would be too far, especially with yet no new game where the Kremlings take stage again; But even the Tikis are already 'outdated' as far DKC iconography goes (well, I guess not anymore with DKCR HD...).

Ideally, they wouldn't need to pick and choose what they could use; Smash Run in Smash4 3DS was so harmoniously made with both Kritters and Tikis wandering around side by side.

 

[Hibby]

On the bright side, as soon as Kremlings appear in a new DK game we can expect them to appear in the park as well. A teeny tiny bit concerning that even after K Rools smash reveal they shut the idea of incorporating him down. Makes me worry a tiny bit that unless the new game is made internally that they'll continue shutting out fan service. Luckily I still think EPD is doing it

My fear is that, despite K. Rool being in Smash, Nintendo does not want to include the Kremlings in a DK game going forward.

I'm worried it's a case of, they want to respect the legacy DKC has, but not iterate any further on elements they don't like. K. Rool can show up in things like Smash, or a potentially a remake of a DK game, but that might be it.

 

[Romancedawn]

Oh boo hoo. Give it enough time, especially if K Rool and the gang appear in a new game you can bet he will appear in the parks. I used to work for Universal Studios and had lots of insight into new attractions, new characters to existing IP’s, etc. These parks don’t like things to get too stagnant. As time goes on more characters will be introduced for meet and greets as well as for merchandise.

When this theme park stuff was finalized I could easily see Nintendo refraining from using much of Rare’s legacy content. I wouldn’t know the timeline on the Mario Movie exceptions but aside from Animal Buddies and Kremlings we were treated to a ton of Donkey Kong Country originals and a Dk64 one as well.

I would imagine with no modern standard to apply to the Kremlings, bringing them into the park with new designs to fit the Returns aesthetic might prove limiting for future games and park projects. On the other hand I don’t see why they couldn’t at least get that Old School Mario look like the entire Kong Clan did.

Still, when a new game comes out and it features the grand return of the Kremlings, you can bet merchandise, meet and greets, and minor environmental changes will come to Universal. Especially x5 if a DK movie has K Rool as the bad guy.

This past generation has seen a shift in the way Nintendo handles much of their IP’s. They definitely allow a lot more freedom to developers to portray Nintendo’s characters these days. I bet as time goes on there will be Nintendo mandates to update the parks with more legacy content. Legacy content that will probably be brought back and updated in newer games.

 

[Drybones2015]

My fear is that, despite K. Rool being in Smash, Nintendo does not want to include the Kremlings in a DK game going forward.

I'm worried it's a case of, they want to respect the legacy DKC has, but not iterate any further on elements they don't like. K. Rool can show up in things like Smash, or a potentially a remake of a DK game, but that might be it.

Well, if Nintendo and whoever decides to once again not include the Kremlings in a mainline game after three entries of people asking where they are, a mainline Mario game throwing in a ton of 90s Donkey Kong references, and a big celebration from fans about K Rool returning after a decade absence, then they can franky (pardon my language) f*ck off.
I'm past the point of giving a sh*t about their rumored feelings on Rare's DK characters. I'll be first in line to dislike that trailer. Give me back my reptiles and giant bees.

On another note, I think Nintendo will begrudgingly price Returns HD at $50 despite them considering the game and brand as premium. Just for the fact that it's the most basic port possible for a 15 year old Wii game in a series going on 11 years without a new one.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Apparently DKCRHD is up on PlayAsia with a $60 price tag;

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo Switch

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo SwitchSwing into action on Nintendo Switch —anytime, anywhere!Barrel-blast into a critically acclaimed Donkey Kong adventure as this beloved franchise makes its Nintendo Switch™ debut with a banana-bunch of new features. Traverse Islands are packed...

www.play-asia.com

But I wouldn't count this as definitive just yet, since there's still no page on eShop nor listing on Amazon.

EDIT: Now also up on the Japanese Nintendo site; same price as The Thousand Year Door remake, 6,500 yen digitally. For reference point, Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake is 5,400 yen.

 

[Ylork]

This is simply unacceptable, especially for a game that will be sold at full price. I think the port is based on the 3DS version and not the Wii version, as the shadow detail shows. This would make sense, given that DKCRHD will include 3DS content. I sincerely hope that the final version of the game will be more polished. Even if it's a fast port, even if it's clearly intended as an add-on project by Nintendo, such a lack of finish would simply be disappointing.

I'm wondering, in practical terms, how you port a 3DS game to Switch. I mean, do you use the same code that you're rewriting, or do you rewrite it complementarily? What tools does this require? What skills does it require? How much time does it take? Is it a problem of lack of supervision or guidelines from EPD?

I'm not sure how it works, but I hope Nintendo supervises on the quality of these ports/remasters, especially when they come from external studios.

 

[Josh5890]

Apparently DKCRHD is up on PlayAsia with a $60 price tag;

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo Switch

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo SwitchSwing into action on Nintendo Switch —anytime, anywhere!Barrel-blast into a critically acclaimed Donkey Kong adventure as this beloved franchise makes its Nintendo Switch™ debut with a banana-bunch of new features. Traverse Islands are packed...

www.play-asia.com

But I wouldn't count this as definitive just yet, since there's still no page on eShop nor listing on Amazon.

EDIT: Now also up on the Japanese Nintendo site; same price as The Thousand Year Door remake, 6,500 yen digitally. For reference point, Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake is 5,400 yen.

I wasn't really expecting less than $60. I figured that $50 at launch was wishful thinking.

 

[KCannon]

This past generation has seen a shift in the way Nintendo handles much of their IP’s. They definitely allow a lot more freedom to developers to portray Nintendo’s characters these days. I bet as time goes on there will be Nintendo mandates to update the parks with more legacy content. Legacy content that will probably be brought back and updated in newer games.

I personally think fans misinterpret what the guidelines are and have no idea what they consist of.

Essentially, EPD's ideas have priority over everything. Stuff like Waluigi, WarioWare, the Luigi's Mansion ghosts etc. still remain confined to their specific subseries/entries and this is still true because the IP supervision teams are a thing you can find in any credits sequence. And mainline characters are not allowed to be modified to huge extents.

From what I'm seeing, it just seems like Nintendo has better clarified what those "mandates" are, instead of actually relaxing them. You just need to look at stuff like Brothership, Mario Party Jamboree and the latest Rabbids game to see not much has changed for old characters. New settings with completely unique characters to it thus end up being a more attractive way to do things.

Mario and Luigi Brothership is set in a completely new world, so it has the excuse to introduce its own likely one-off characters while Mario, Luigi and Co. remain intact. Mario RPG and TTYD are remakes, so it likely falls into legacy territory. Origami King also has new characters, but it cannot go much further with already existing ones because it takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, so it's all a matter of investment from the Paper Mario team in putting more effort into new worlds and species. I certainly do not expect new Goombella-like Goombas, but that does not mean similar characters can't exist.

 

[KremlingKuthroat]

Well, if Nintendo and whoever decides to once again not include the Kremlings in a mainline game after three entries of people asking where they are, a mainline Mario game throwing in a ton of 90s Donkey Kong references, and a big celebration from fans about K Rool returning after a decade absence, then they can franky (pardon my language) f*ck off.
I'm past the point of giving a sh*t about their rumored feelings on Rare's DK characters. I'll be first in line to dislike that trailer. Give me back my reptiles and giant bees.

On another note, I think Nintendo will begrudgingly price Returns HD at $50 despite them considering the game and brand as premium. Just for the fact that it's the most basic port possible for a 15 year old Wii game in a series going on 11 years without a new one.

Right there with ya friend. Although I’m pretty optimistic that K. Rool will definitely return for the next mainline game, if Nintendo decides to get cute again and make the Tikis or a new villain factor the villains in a new DK game while excluding the Kremlings and K. Rool, they deserve to be ceaselessly ridiculed nonstop.

 

[KCannon]

Right there with ya friend. Although I’m pretty optimistic that K. Rool will definitely return for the next mainline game, if Nintendo decides to get cute again and make the Tikis or a new villain factor the villains in a new DK game while excluding the Kremlings and K. Rool, they deserve to be ceaselessly ridiculed nonstop.

"Devs should be allowed to be creative, except they must use characters I like, else they can fuck off" is not a great take.

What happened to just appreciating new ideas? Returns and Tropical Freeze didn't need the Kremlings to be great games. It's not like stuff like Paper Mario Sticker Star where the changes definitely caused a decrease in quality.

 

[Hibby]

I don't know. I think it's fine if a series tries to change things up every now and then. I'm not against a Mario game having a new villain in the future. We've had Wart and Tatanga before. The difference here is Nintendo didn't try to phase out Bowser for a new villain entirely. Donkey Kong is a very high selling franchise, so it makes sense to me why people would be up in arms about losing DK's Bowser. It didn't still well for me that Nintendo wanted to turn DKC into a series that has a different villain of the week.

 

[Professor Chops]

People want the Kremlings back because they are more compelling villains than pieces of wood and the Penguins of Madagascar. King K. Rool is an insane crocodile pirate king who has tons of personality. We've had "new ideas" for the past two games—three if you include Jungle Beat—and people are sick of the rotating cast of one-off villains and want the franchise to have a consistent identity again. I adore the Retro DKC games, but are great in spite of their underwhelming villains.

 

[Decoyman]

I like the Snowmads more than the Kremlings.

 

[Professor Chops]

I like the Snowmads more than the Kremlings.

And that's fine! In an ideal world, we'd be getting DK games every couple of years and all of these villains could coexist. But some people have this willfully ignorant attitude towards anybody who wants to see the Kremlings return, when there are clear reasons why they're so beloved. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

 

[KCannon]

People want the Kremlings back because they are more compelling villains than pieces of wood and the Penguins of Madagascar. King K. Rool is an insane crocodile pirate king who has tons of personality. We've had "new ideas" for the past two games—three if you include Jungle Beat—and people are sick of the rotating cast of one-off villains and want the franchise to have a consistent identity again. I adore the Retro DKC games, but are great in spite of their underwhelming villains.

We have to take in account that Rare's writing made quite a difference in the appeal of the Kremlings. In the Paon games, they were played rather generically and weren't particularly interesting. And Nintendo is not particularly known for heavy dialogue in their platformers.

This is actually a thing I would be curious to see.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I can name a lot of common individual Kremlings on top of my head (Krusha, Klump, Koin, Kopter, Klaptrap, Kannon, Kritter, Kaboom, Kloak, Re-Koil)... but I would be caught dead before naming a single member of Tiki Tak Tribe.. let alone the common enemies during levels... and the Snowmads are... uuh.. 'the penguin', 'the warlus'... and.. 'that one other penguin'. That's how memorable they are to me.

 

[Professor Chops]

We have to take in account that Rare's writing made quite a difference in the appeal of the Kremlings. In the Paon games, they were played rather generically and weren't particularly interesting. And Nintendo is not particularly known for great writing in their platformers.

This is actually a thing I would be curious to see.

Agreed. Even though the Paon games had tons of Rare fanservice, their characterization—for many characters, not just the Kremlings—was really off. Cranky was depicted as an archetypal "wise old man," while K. Rool felt like a generic Bowser clone. If K. Rool's Smash trailer, which Nintendo undoubtedly had to sign-off on, is any indication, I'm hopeful that they finally understand why people like these characters so much.

 

[Truno]

The Kong's from Jungle Beat are still peak:

Unmatched RAWNESS

 

[KCannon]

The Kong's from Jungle Beat are still peak:

Unmatched RAWNESS

Yes, I do think they are underrated. They show a lot of personality through their fighting styles.

 

[Drybones2015]

"Devs should be allowed to be creative, except they must use characters I like, else they can fuck off" is not a great take.

What happened to just appreciating new ideas? Returns and Tropical Freeze didn't need the Kremlings to be great games. It's not like stuff like Paper Mario Sticker Star where the changes definitely caused a decrease in quality.

Devs are allowed to be creative while still maintaining aspects of a franchise people like. Like Mario devs, they have to include Bowser and Koopas or Goombas, but that doesn't mean they aren't allowed to be creative with the games they are making. And it's not like Kremlings are the only enemies in past games. The "fuck off" part stems from knowing that they know we want them back and refusing to do so while repeatedly creating what's obviously supposed to be copys of the Kremling's whole flow.

Some consider Jungle Beat to be a good or great game and it literally just has Donkey Kong. Returns and TF are great games. You don't need Kremlings to make a great game, yes. But while you can argue that Kremlings aren't needed, you can also argue that getting rid of them wasn't necessary to make a great game either. It's not about if Kremlings improve a game's quality, it's simply about just wanting them there.

 

[Decoyman]

I can name a lot of common individual Kremlings on top of my head (Krusha, Klump, Koin, Kopter, Klaptrap, Kannon, Kritter, Kaboom, Kloak, Re-Koil)... but I would be caught dead before naming a single member of Tiki Tak Tribe.. let alone the common enemies during levels... and the Snowmads are... uuh.. 'the penguin', 'the warlus'... and.. 'that one other penguin'. That's how memorable they are to me.

I think this says more about your capacity to internalize the enemy roll call at the end of every Rare DKC game whereas you won't learn the names of Tropical Freeze enemies unless you spend time on the Capsule Toy Machine.

 

[LiveStudioCrowd]

It's an odd comparison, but DK's place within Nintendo reminds me of Castlevania's status within Konami. Both get plenty of cameos in crossover titles, non-gaming media (DK with the movie, Castlevania with the Netflix show), decent merchandise and generally well-done re-releases of older games. In many respects they're fairly active IPs... but they just can't seem to just get any new releases. Heck DKC and Castlevania have both spawned (admittedly far more with the latter) small cottage industries within the indie gaming sphere based on producing spiritual sequels/tributes to their respective gameplay styles; a context partially fueled by neither franchise getting new titles.

While the conditions are quite different (Nintendo's ability/motivation for getting a permanent DK studio being up in the air and Konami simply having their fingers in so many non-gaming pies that older franchises have taken a backseat) it is interesting that both are still very alive in so many ways all without having genuinely new games to call their own for so long.

 

[Drybones2015]

The Kong's from Jungle Beat are still peak:

Unmatched RAWNESS

I'd gladly take an entire game of DK kickboxing his way through a gauntlet of badass looking opponents.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I think this says more about your capacity to internalize the enemy roll call at the end of every Rare DKC game whereas you won't learn the names of Tropical Freeze enemies unless you spend time on the Capsule Toy Machine.

I did 100% Tropical Freeze and collected the figurines and extra stuff; But still.. not even in the shapes they aren't much of interesting to me. I like some of the bosses, but I also can't name them without looking up..

Also, I think the enemy roll out of DKC credits were of extreme importance (much like Super Mario World) to present even the smallest of the common enemies as actual characters. This does help immensely you appreciate them as part of the world; that's a positive of Rare titles.

 

[Decoyman]

I did 100% Tropical Freeze and collected the figurines and extra stuff; But still.. not even in the shapes they aren't much of interesting to me. I like some of the bosses, but I also can't name them without looking up..

Also, I think the enemy roll out of DKC credits were of extreme importance (much like Super Mario World) to present even the smallest of the common enemies as actual characters. This does help immensely you appreciate them as part of the world; that's a positive of Rare titles.

In good conscience the only reason I can act like I remember a critter's name in DKC usually had to do with some level being named after one, replaying DKC2 a whole lot to the credits, or having enemies that became mainstays across the series, and even then I'd struggle attaching names to more than three or four Kremlings if you put a gun to my head. None of the DKC games have had as enduring of a cast as Mario's goons. They even arbitrarily changed Klaptrap's name in DKC2 to something dumb I can't remember unless I look it up, so they ain't exactly consistent.

When I'd rank those domino dudes or viking gremlins from DK64 high up on the "memorability" chart despite that game never giving any real names to 'em, I don't particularly feel that strong about enemy notability being dictated by how memorable their names are. If people are just predisposed to finding reptilian designs cooler or of more inherent worth, then fair play, cause that's really what it usually feels like it's about.

 

[Twohearts]

Right there with ya friend. Although I’m pretty optimistic that K. Rool will definitely return for the next mainline game, if Nintendo decides to get cute again and make the Tikis or a new villain factor the villains in a new DK game while excluding the Kremlings and K. Rool, they deserve to be ceaselessly ridiculed nonstop.

I understand you like the kremlings but I do feel new enemies could be as cool or better. Still though, I do get it, I am autistic and I was really upset when they on,you had new pokemon in black and white, so I get not having characters who feel regular not being there can be distressing. I'd be pretty upset if there was a Mario game without bowser at all

 

[entut1]

The Snowmads are up there with the Kremlings in terms of execution. They just happen to have a quite tame leader in Lord Frederik to some (I think he works fine), but as an enemy tribe, their influence around the world of Tropical Freeze is well-showcased and well-developed. Their character theme builds up as this menacing, then haunting and memorable nordic melody. When you finally take on DK's Island, which has been twisted into the new capital of their kingdom, you can feel their influence at its most powerful. Such a huge upgrade from the Tiki Tribe in Returns it's not even funny.

 

[Mekanos]

Personally I just think it weakens the brand when the series is constantly having a rotating door of villains (again an issue when the series only gets a game once a decade). The same thing happened to Wario Land. If Tiki Tong and Fredrik are supposed to be K. Rool's replacements, color me unimpressed.

 

[JazzyFuture]

Apparently DKCRHD is up on PlayAsia with a $60 price tag;

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo Switch

Donkey Kong Country Returns HD for Nintendo SwitchSwing into action on Nintendo Switch —anytime, anywhere!Barrel-blast into a critically acclaimed Donkey Kong adventure as this beloved franchise makes its Nintendo Switch™ debut with a banana-bunch of new features. Traverse Islands are packed...

www.play-asia.com

But I wouldn't count this as definitive just yet, since there's still no page on eShop nor listing on Amazon.

EDIT: Now also up on the Japanese Nintendo site; same price as The Thousand Year Door remake, 6,500 yen digitally. For reference point, Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake is 5,400 yen.

80 CAD for a remaster that loses effects from both the Wii and 3DS versions? Uhhh... gonna be a hard sell for me. Even ignoring that I'm not the biggest fan of Returns, I would have liked a truly definitive version of the game cause Wii/3D are basically sidegrades to each other.
Hopefully the visuals and performance are ironed out before release, but I've personally got some doubts about Wii remasters outsourced to studios with not the best track record this gen. Maybe they'll change my mind when it shows up again closer to release.

 

[Dante Kong]

I like the snowmads, tikis and even the evil kongs in Jungle Beat, and I'd be up for more new villains in the future, but at some point you should go back to your fan favorite. K Rools last role as the big bad was Jungle Climber in 2007. If Bowser, or Eggman, or Dr Wily were missing that long, fans of those series would be just as upset and I wouldn't blame them.

I do get that sometimes story/continuity matters and therefore a fan favorite character is better off left out. Ridley has been dead since Super Metroid- any appearance afterwards is a clone or takes place before he died, even in DK we have Wrinkly Kong who died and is just a ghost now, but it's not like there's any lore related boundaries that make the kremlings returning impossible. Nintendos best fresh ideas come from new gameplay ideas anyways, not from removing characters