Discussion Anyone remember that patent for mouse wheel style shoulder buttons?

[Mer.Saloon]

New Nintendo patent reveals scroll wheel shoulder buttons

Are you looking to showcase your brand in front of the gaming industry’s top leaders? Learn more about GamesBeat Summit sponsorship opportunities here. A new Nintendo patent published today on Free Patents Online could be giving us a first glimpse into the company’s NX plans. The patent is for...

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(Linking the article because sharing pics never works for me on the phone.)

Yeah, I remember when this patent was going around prior to the reveal of the Switch, and I honestly thought the idea was interesting with potential especially for menu navigation or weapon rotating.

I think also of things like Metroid's scan visor and rotating between all the scans on the fly without needing to use D-pad to switch. At least allow more room for flexible control schemes (if Nintendo ever gets basic button remapping down.)

I wonder if Nintendo are still experimenting with the idea as I think there might be something there.

 

[GPKs3]

I remember. I like the idea and want to see Nintendo implement this into the Switch 2 joy-cons or whatever they end up being this time around. Joy-Con 2.0?

 

[Hailinel]

An interesting patent, but I could see frustration with scroll-wheel shoulder inputs.

 

[AllEchse]

If they do use it I just see it go the way of the PS4 Touchpad.
The only game I remeber actually using it as something different than oversized select button is Gravity Rush 2, which used swiping to change gravity mode.
And that originally wasnt even a PS4 game.

Maybe Nintendo would be better about it, seeing as people generally buy their system more for first party than third party.

 

[OctoSplattack]

Wouldn't size be an issue here? You'd have to make the shoulder buttons no more than half the size of the current Switch ones (both Joy-Con and Pro Controller) in order for them to not mess with the stick and button placements, and I'm not sure how nice that would be ergonomically. People in the Future Hardware thread were tossing around the idea of the shoulder button becoming capacitive touch sensing instead to serve the same function, which sounds like it could work better?

 

[Mer.Saloon]

An interesting patent, but I could see frustration with scroll-wheel shoulder inputs.

I feel frustration could be avoided as long as the wheels aren't too loose. Just enough for comfortable rotation but not enough for reckless rotation.

 

[Hailinel]

If they do use it I just see it go the way of the PS4 Touchpad.
The only game I remeber actually using it as something different than oversized select button is Gravity Rush 2, which used swiping to change gravity mode.
And that originally wasnt even a PS4 game.

Maybe Nintendo would be better about it, seeing as people generally buy their system more for first party than third party.

I think the only PS4 game I played that used the touchpad for something other than a giant button was Infamous: Second Son, where it was the input for the graffiti spray control that was neither immediately intuitive nor fun.

 

[Yavga]

This would be awesome when you pair the Joycons with your PC for easy web navigation/scrolling or photoshop brush use... but I don't really see any further real uses for the Switch ecosystem itself beyond some gimmicky implementations.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

This would be awesome when you pair the Joycons with your PC for easy web navigation/scrolling or photoshop brush use... but I don't really see any further real uses for the Switch ecosystem itself beyond some gimmicky implementations.

Would be awfully nice for Breath of the Wild style menu navigation.

Or you could flip through your weapons faster which frees up the d-pad for other functions.

Its really more of an incremental idea rather than some huge gimmick meant to rock the world.

 

[BlackthornOrion]

I'm not kidding when I say I probably think about them at least once a month.

Especially whenever I've gone back to BotW; I can't fully articulate why, but something about those menus just feel to me like they were designed at a point when those scroll wheels were a serious consideration. There's probably some other small instances of that, but BotW is the one that sticks out the most to me.

 

[Hailinel]

Would be awfully nice for Breath of the Wild style menu navigation.

Or you could flip through your weapons faster which frees up the d-pad for other functions.

Its really more of an incremental idea rather than some huge gimmick meant to rock the world.

I don't really see how scroll-wheels would be a better option than how the BotW menus are already implemented given they're designed with the existing controls in mind, and outside of menu navigation they wouldn't serve much (if any) purpose.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I don't really see how scroll-wheels would be a better option than how the BotW menus are already implemented given they're designed with the existing controls in mind, and outside of menu navigation they wouldn't serve much (if any) purpose.

You wouldn't need your thumb for the navigation or to potentially switch buttons if the button was still clickable. Just click to open the menu and then scroll at the same time. And you have the potential for doing this out in the field without needing to take your thumb off the left stick or use your right thumb for selection. Just another option really.

 

[Hailinel]

You wouldn't need your thumb for the navigation or to potentially switch buttons if the button was still clickable. Just click to open the menu and then scroll at the same time. And you have the potential for doing this out in the field without needing to take your thumb off the left stick or use your right thumb for selection. Just another option really.

Counterpoint: As a longtime user of mice, clickable scrollwheels are a quiet hell and whoever invented them is the devil.

 

[Gabev]

It could/would have worked well with the TotK shortcut menu for selecting thrown/arrow head items.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Just a new location for the Volume/Contrast controls like on old Game Boy.

 

[Jersh]

Counterpoint: As a longtime user of mice, clickable scrollwheels are a quiet hell and whoever invented them is the devil.

I disagree, but a lot of them sure aren't made well. I feel some from Nintendo would be fine - if they didn't have to make them for Joy-Cons.

I kinda wonder if the input method tested well in a Pro Controller form factor but couldn't be done right in a more compact form. Regardless, I trust there's an actual reason this never surfaced when it seems to have potential.

You wouldn't need your thumb for the navigation or to potentially switch buttons if the button was still clickable. Just click to open the menu and then scroll at the same time. And you have the potential for doing this out in the field without needing to take your thumb off the left stick or use your right thumb for selection. Just another option really.

Click to open which menu? TotK has six total, four of which can be accessed at any given time.

I am admittedly being a little intentionally obtuse to play devil's advocate; if we had scrollable bumpers (NOT triggers, which I think would be worse), it's mostly easy to imagine a world where the weapon menus are mapped to those instead of left/right d-pad and just stay context sensitive like they already are, while the item inventory and arm power menus stay on their own buttons (with arm power likely moving to d-pad up for consistency with BotW's runes, while items go to either left or right).

But even something as simple as that leaves you with the question of the throw button. It's currently on R, same as BotW. Under this scheme, the only dedicated input it can get is a d-pad button, which... ain't great. None of the other face buttons can really move, nor can the shoulder buttons... do you do a combo? Maybe ZR while holding Y? It's a little clunky.

I type all this out just to say that scrollable shoulder buttons aren't the magic bullet for BotW/TotK people tout them as. Even though personally, I totally feel keeping the control scheme as is, but with the option to scroll a wheel while holding the d-pad, would be way better than using the stick.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I disagree, but a lot of them sure aren't made well. I feel some from Nintendo would be fine - if they didn't have to make them for Joy-Cons.

I kinda wonder if the input method tested well in a Pro Controller form factor but couldn't be done right in a more compact form. Regardless, I trust there's an actual reason this never surfaced when it seems to have potential.

Click to open which menu? TotK has six total, four of which can be accessed at any given time.

I am admittedly being a little intentionally obtuse to play devil's advocate; if we had scrollable bumpers (NOT triggers, which I think would be worse), it's mostly easy to imagine a world where the weapon menus are mapped to those instead of left/right d-pad and just stay context sensitive like they already are, while the item inventory and arm power menus stay on their own buttons (with arm power likely moving to d-pad up for consistency with BotW's runes, while items go to either left or right).

But even something as simple as that leaves you with the question of the throw button. It's currently on R, same as BotW. Under this scheme, the only dedicated input it can get is a d-pad button, which... ain't great. None of the other face buttons can really move, nor can the shoulder buttons... do you do a combo? Maybe ZR while holding Y? It's a little clunky.

I type all this out just to say that scrollable shoulder buttons aren't the magic bullet for BotW/TotK people tout them as. Even though personally, I totally feel keeping the control scheme as is, but with the option to scroll a wheel while holding the d-pad, would be way better than using the stick.

Yeah. Its not some magic bullet to fix every problem, but im more advocating it as something which has potential to free up other things.

Its mainly something I'd like to see come to light as maybe a replacement for the triggers and just leave the z buttons or maybe vice versa rather than outright replace both so that its a gain rather than a loss in the design.

 

[Christo750]

BOTW/TOTK’s inventory could’ve benefitted greatly from them. It’s a great idea.

 

[Deleted member 540]

Have people saying that this could help with the insanely long materials "quick" selects in TOTK actually thought about this properly?

You'd be having to waggle your finger on this scroll wheel for insane amounts to the point of carpal tunnel to traverse that menu. That's in no way an ergonomic improvement on simply holding the stick while the menu scrolls.

 

[lattjeful]

@Bonejack remembers

 

[TheCongressman]

I'm not kidding when I say I probably think about them at least once a month.

Especially whenever I've gone back to BotW; I can't fully articulate why, but something about those menus just feel to me like they were designed at a point when those scroll wheels were a serious consideration. There's probably some other small instances of that, but BotW is the one that sticks out the most to me.

I'm the same way, I think about it a lot.

When I was younger I had a hand-me-down pda phone that had a thumb wheel on the side, I thought it was the coolest thing. The wheel made it really easy to navigate the phone, and was just fun to use. When that patent surfaced, I immediately saw the potential for games, and I haven't stopped thinking about it.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Have people saying that this could help with the insanely long materials "quick" selects in TOTK actually thought about this properly?

You'd be having to waggle your finger on this scroll wheel for insane amounts to the point of carpal tunnel to traverse that menu. That's in no way an ergonomic improvement on simply holding the stick while the menu scrolls.

Yeah that is a fair point.

 

[Shoulder]

Have people saying that this could help with the insanely long materials "quick" selects in TOTK actually thought about this properly?

You'd be having to waggle your finger on this scroll wheel for insane amounts to the point of carpal tunnel to traverse that menu. That's in no way an ergonomic improvement on simply holding the stick while the menu scrolls.

That is a good point, though one potential solution, or at least an option is wheel acceleration built in. So if you scroll slowly between say two or three items, it’s one at a time. But scroll fast, and it'll move much faster.

Doesn’t solve the issue, but it’s a potential idea.

 

[Hailinel]

That is a good point, though one potential solution, or at least an option is wheel acceleration built in. So if you scroll slowly between say two or three items, it’s one at a time. But scroll fast, and it'll move much faster.

Doesn’t solve the issue, but it’s a potential idea.

Or just use the analog stick.

People are trying hard to imagine control solutions the game UI wasn't designed for.

 

[xtoc]

I think a lot of people dont know what the patent actual says.

1. Its a scroll wheel, yes

2. The scroll wheel can rotate on his own, Quick example: Zelda bow, you pull on it and it will forceback the scroll wheel from where it was. But you can feel the force while pulling it. Like an elastic thing. Could also auto rotate to a direction of a treasure location (is in the patent)

3. While scrolling, the scrollwheel can lock itself. Lets say if you have a navigation bar, it would lock the scroll if the navigation bar is at the end

4. It can be clicked (i believe its analog)

5. It has force feedback (differenr from rumble)