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StarTopic A Song of Ice and Fire |ST| A Dream of Spring

merp

merp

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What better way to greet the Spring time than with the title A Dream of Spring which I'm sure – and I have it on good authority – will arrive in a timely fashion right after The Winds of Winter this year soon afterward!

...

So anyways, back to the grimdark reality that is A Song of Ice and Fire...'s waiting-period for the next book in the series.

And yes, I did go for the low-hanging fruit of making that kind-of joke; I actually wasn't sure if it was just too redundant or if somebody would've at least wanted some commentary on that particular topic to start off the first ST thread on Famiboards regarding A Song of Ice and Fire, though to be fair, we already have a lot of that, I suppose.

Anyway, here's a picture from the 2023 calendar (I quite like it actually):

2023_Calendar_Chase-Stone.jpg


Also, recent update on multiple projects:
  • GRRM continues to work on The Winds of Winter, saying he made a great deal of progress in 2020, and somewhat less in 2021, but progress still goes forward.
  • GRRM has also been working on continuing the Targaryen history, and is a couple of hundred pages in. He has a long way to go on it, however.
  • George intends to write more Dunk & Egg novellas, to tell the rest of their story “especially since there’s a television series in development.
  • This one we’ll quote, and will go into more detail on this book in a separate post: “There’s a lavish coffee table book coming later this year, an illustrated, condensed version of FIRE & BLOOD done with Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson (my partners on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE), and my Fevre River art director, Raya Golden. And another book after that, a Who’s Who in Westeros. And that’s just the books.”
  • George is heavily involved in the successor shows because he’s doing his best to try and keep them “canonical”. He has loved what he’s seen of House of the Dragon so far.
  • GRRM hints that there’s more in development or under consideration than what has already been announced or revealed over at HBO. Of the live action shows: Bruno Heller’s Nine Voyages has been renamed The Sea Snake, and Heller is working on the pilot script. Amanda Segel’s Ten Thousand Ships has a couple of pilot drafts in. GRRM has met with Steve Conrad to discuss A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, or possibly The Hedge Knight.
  • For the animated shows, the one he can discuss is The Golden Empire, previously revealed. He says he can’t say more about the other animated shows.
  • GRRM is also working with writers, showrunners, diectors, and producers on other shows that have been announced where he’s an executive producer: Roadmarks for HBO, Dark Winds for AMC, Wild Cards for UCP and Peacock, and the Howard Waldrop adaptation Night of the Cooters which he has financed.
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Also, another book is coming out:

As promised, we can now discuss in more detail our forthcoming book, The Rise of the Dragon, as it has not been posted about at Not a Blog. The book will hit shelves in October, both in the US and in the UK as HarperVoyager announced they’ve picked up the rights (and shown off their own cover).

Cover_RiseOfTheDragon.jpg


US Cover of The Rise of the Dragon, by Ertaç Altınöz

We first learned about the fact that there was interest in another book that could compliment The World of Ice and Fire at the Worldcon in Dublin in 2019. How did we learn about it? When GRRM told us we were writing another world book. Suffice it to say, it was a (very pleasant) surprise to us! So, too, was the contract when we learned the details, as it was a two book contract, not just one.
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So, err, yeah.

Not sure what else to say, but I thought we might need an ST on this eventually.

Thoughts?

(And let's try to be a bit update on this because I know that a lot of pessimism is present in the fandom nowadays so let's try to at least have some semblance of, well, a good atmosphere, I guess.)

Discuss.
 
Nice OP, I like to check in periodically and see how this is plodding along. I dipped out of the show in season 5 so I was spared the worst of the GoT meltdown, and therefore I still have affection for the source material.

I do have hope that once Winds of Winter comes out, it will basically be a downhill sprint for the final book. A lot of his issues with this book are probably similar to Dance With Dragons where he just has so many moving pieces to wrangle that it takes time, and any small change ripples throughout the entire storyline.

That said, if it never comes it never comes, George has earned his success and deserves to live how he wants.
 
Weebos said:
Nice OP, I like to check in periodically and see how this is plodding along. I dipped out of the show in season 5 so I was spared the worst of the GoT meltdown, and therefore I still have affection for the source material.

I do have hope that once Winds of Winter comes out, it will basically be a downhill sprint for the final book. A lot of his issues with this book are probably similar to Dance With Dragons where he just has so many moving pieces to wrangle that it takes time, and any small change ripples throughout the entire storyline.

That said, if it never comes it never comes, George has earned his success and deserves to live how he wants.
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A positive and hopeful comment in the ASOIAF fandom!

...Those are rare.
 
Well well ...

Liked to read ASOIAF 1-5 in one swoop. Was a really great experience. This was 10 years ago...

Show was underwhelming. Especially the last seasons. Sadly, given the long time, i lost all interest.
 
I've been less active in the ASOIAF fandom lately, but I have to say that I love the books. George's character work is, in my opinion, among the best in the entire fantasy genre. This became clear to me after reading A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. Because the plot in these books almost takes a backseat to the internal struggles of the POV characters, George highlights what he does best.

Many essays have been written over the years about the character work in ASOIAF. Among others, I recommend the essays by The Meereenese Blot and PoorQuentyn.

About the projects that are planned and upcoming... I have faith in House of the Dragon. Ryan Condal, who is responsible for the TV series, is clearly a fan of the books. The crew is also much more experienced and diverse, which bodes well. After all, the portrayal of some (mostly female) characters in Game of Thrones was very problematic and I believe it will be handled better in House of the Dragon.

The other projects in HBO's "Game of Thrones Cinematic Universe" were unexpected for me (also for George). I await the results of those, although some of the ideas are quite interesting.

I'm still interested in The Winds of Winter, which I expect to see in a year or two. It is clear that George is struggling a lot with the book. It is obviously very difficult to bring all those storylines back together. It would not surprise me at all if the book had been largely rewritten several times or if George had suffered from longer periods of writer's block.
 
Cool thread! I watched the TV show and just never happened to read the novels or invest deeper once the show wrapped up but I missed the world and literally just last week picked up and read through A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. A very nice to the point read that starts as seemingly disparate short stories but shows its hand as its own kind of epic in the making by the end. Loved it! I've started up Fire and Blood now. Probably seems a little backwards to do it this way but I'm holding off on the main books til I've got through this side stuff because, well, I'm obviously going to hit the choke point sooner or later that everyone is at haha no rush to get there.
 
I love Asoiaf and own much of its world materials but I gotta admit that as a Stark fan, the hyper focus on that arrogant family of inbred deviants is disconcerting.

Is he ever going to introduce material that goes into the north, or the embattled history of the riverlands preconquest? Maybe the bloody banners of the Dornish/Stormland/Reach marcherlords?

Targaryens are cool and all but I sincerely just don't care about them that much.
 
Simba1 said:
Damn, when I saw headline 1st thought was that A Dream of Spring is released.
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It's a dream of the recent season of Spring (starts March 20th, correct me if I'm wrong)! ...And a dream for the book to release any day now.

😭
 
Donnie said:
Cool thread! I watched the TV show and just never happened to read the novels or invest deeper once the show wrapped up but I missed the world and literally just last week picked up and read through A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. A very nice to the point read that starts as seemingly disparate short stories but shows its hand as its own kind of epic in the making by the end. Loved it! I've started up Fire and Blood now. Probably seems a little backwards to do it this way but I'm holding off on the main books til I've got through this side stuff because, well, I'm obviously going to hit the choke point sooner or later that everyone is at haha no rush to get there.
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Will you read A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels, by any chance, given that the Game of Thrones serial starts to diverge around season 2? I would recommend it, if you want more of that world and all.

Uniomni said:
I love Asoiaf and own much of its world materials but I gotta admit that as a Stark fan, the hyper focus on that arrogant family of inbred deviants is disconcerting.

Is he ever going to introduce material that goes into the north, or the embattled history of the riverlands preconquest? Maybe the bloody banners of the Dornish/Stormland/Reach marcherlords?

Targaryens are cool and all but I sincerely just don't care about them that much.
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To be honest, I don't find the Targaryens to be all that interesting. Dunno. I honestly want to focus on other things. Everything besides them (and Essos) intrigues me.
 
merp said:
Will you read A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels, by any chance, given that the Game of Thrones serial starts to diverge around season 2? I would recommend it, if you want more of that world and all.
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Oh yeah, absolutely! Sorry my post was worded awkwardly, I have them here and I'm planning on reading them next, I'm just shuffling them to the back of the order since the next book isn't due out super soon or anything haha but yes I'm going to read all the way through!
 
Donnie said:
Oh yeah, absolutely! Sorry my post was worded awkwardly, I have them here and I'm planning on reading them next, I'm just shuffling them to the back of the order since the next book isn't due out super soon or anything haha but yes I'm going to read all the way through!
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Oh yeah, that's nice; side material is good too.
 
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Rainbow said:
Well well ...

Liked to read ASOIAF 1-5 in one swoop. Was a really great experience. This was 10 years ago...

Show was underwhelming. Especially the last seasons. Sadly, given the long time, i lost all interest.
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I felt the show went downhill from season 2 onward, but season 5 was when it passed into being... bad.
 
I'm one of those show-first fellows who discovered the series through the adaptation. I bought the books, read through the first one in a hurry and started the second one before deciding to put it on hold. There's the grim possibility, or even likelihood at this point, that GRRM will never finish the books. And that's... fine, really. Man doesn't owe us anything. If he chooses to live out his retirement years in relaxation, then I'm happy for him. But I'd rather not continue reading until I know I'll be able to see it through to the finish line.

I've already deleted where the show headed from my memory banks, honestly. Just a disastrous outcome that showed D&D had no idea what they were doing once they ran out of GRRM material to adapt. Completely inept storytellers. It'll be a shame if the garbage they wrote for S7/S8 remains the only conclusion to A Song of Ice and Fire we'll ever get, but that's not George's fault nor his responsibility to make up for.
 
Caviar said:
I'm one of those show-first fellows who discovered the series through the adaptation. I bought the books, read through the first one in a hurry and started the second one before deciding to put it on hold. There's the grim possibility, or even likelihood at this point, that GRRM will never finish the books. And that's... fine, really. Man doesn't owe us anything. If he chooses to live out his retirement years in relaxation, then I'm happy for him. But I'd rather not continue reading until I know I'll be able to see it through to the finish line.

I've already deleted where the show headed from my memory banks, honestly. Just a disastrous outcome that showed D&D had no idea what they were doing once they ran out of GRRM material to adapt. Completely inept storytellers. It'll be a shame if the garbage they wrote for S7/S8 remains the only conclusion to A Song of Ice and Fire we'll ever get, but that's not George's fault nor his responsibility to make up for.
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Let's all appreciate the fact:

That Season 7's plot was essentially "pics or it didn't happen."
 
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Caviar said:
I'm one of those show-first fellows who discovered the series through the adaptation. I bought the books, read through the first one in a hurry and started the second one before deciding to put it on hold. There's the grim possibility, or even likelihood at this point, that GRRM will never finish the books. And that's... fine, really. Man doesn't owe us anything. If he chooses to live out his retirement years in relaxation, then I'm happy for him. But I'd rather not continue reading until I know I'll be able to see it through to the finish line.

I've already deleted where the show headed from my memory banks, honestly. Just a disastrous outcome that showed D&D had no idea what they were doing once they ran out of GRRM material to adapt. Completely inept storytellers. It'll be a shame if the garbage they wrote for S7/S8 remains the only conclusion to A Song of Ice and Fire we'll ever get, but that's not George's fault nor his responsibility to make up for.
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I am also someone who had seen the show before the books. The first four seasons were very good. After reading the books, it became totally clear to me what had gone wrong with the later seasons.

Season 5... I would certainly have found it understandable if A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons had been slightly more streamlined and simplified for the TV audience. But D&D handled the "adaptation" of these books very poorly and sloppily. The essence of the book storylines were often completely lost and thematically the season was the exact opposite of the books. It was clear that D&D didn't understand the point George wanted to make with the storylines he wrote.

Season 5 took a very different path from the books and from that point on it became almost impossible for the TV series to reach a similar end conclusion as the books. The very different characterisation of the characters, as well as the complete removal of important storylines and subplots in the show had huge consequences. I wouldn't say the problem was that D&D ran out of book material to adapt, but that the material (and the potential outline they got) became almost unusable because of the choices they made earlier. I don't think it would have made much difference to the TV series had George released The Winds of Winter in 2015 or 2016.

George can do what he wants as far as I am concerned. I can perfectly understand if George is less motivated to write Winds and Dream. He has been struggling with it for years and, given the complexity of the book, it probably seems more attractive to him to take on simpler projects.
 
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Racalia said:
I am also someone who had seen the show before the books. The first four seasons were very good. After reading the books, it became totally clear to me what had gone wrong with the later seasons.

Season 5... I would certainly have found it understandable if A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons had been slightly more streamlined and simplified for the TV audience. But D&D handled the "adaptation" of these books very poorly and sloppily. The essence of the book storylines were often completely lost and thematically the season was the exact opposite of the books. It was clear that D&D didn't understand the point George wanted to make with the storylines he wrote.

Season 5 took a very different path from the books and from that point on it became almost impossible for the TV series to reach a similar end conclusion as the books. The very different characterisation of the characters, as well as the complete removal of important storylines and subplots in the show had huge consequences. I wouldn't say the problem was that D&D ran out of book material to adapt, but that the material (and the potential outline they got) became almost unusable because of the choices they made earlier. I don't think it would have made much difference to the TV series had George released The Winds of Winter in 2015 or 2016.

George can do what he wants as far as I am concerned. I can perfectly understand if George is less motivated to write Winds and Dream. He has been struggling with it for years and, given the complexity of the book, it probably seems more attractive to him to take on simpler projects.
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The bolded part was mine (and underlining in the later part of the bolded text also being mine).
 
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So, now with HOD airing anyone wants to talk about the F&B theories that are kinda confirmed by the show or is this thread reserved for the main series books only?
 
Fercho said:
So, now with HOD airing anyone wants to talk about the F&B theories that are kinda confirmed by the show or is this thread reserved for the main series books only?
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Main book series, tbh.

That's why it's A Song of Ice and Fire and not Game of Thrones, which are both different from one another.
 
merp said:
Main book series, tbh.

That's why it's A Song of Ice and Fire and not Game of Thrones, which are both different from one another.
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Gotcha no fret, well not much to discuss on my side then, hopefully we will not have to wait another 11 years for the next book :s

For some reason i have this weird hope that GRRM will give us a surprise and both books are going to be released back to back, with less than a year from each other, God bless my soul.
 
I will only consider reading this series if the last book ever comes out, and is well received.
 
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If someone has actually followed GRRM's updates in the last couple of years, you'll know that he does a lot of rewriting and editing, at all times, and we've seen page counts actually decreasing from one year to the next one. That being put into context, yes, I think after this page-count update it is safe to assume that we have a new Zelda coming before Winds:

https://www.ign.com/articles/george...-winds-of-winter-the-same-number-as-last-year
 
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