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The order of release is due to reasons. Plenty of excitement and interest awaits in 2024 -- along with industry concern.
Why are people speaking for Nate in here?
This is what was posted. So patience and excitement is the key/
The order of release is due to reasons. Plenty of excitement and interest awaits in 2024 -- along with industry concern.
That seems to be NVIDIA's current far future fantasy. Check out this demo from about 4 years back. But how long until something like that is practical, and the many steps we'll see between now and then are still going to be surprises.DLSS for the most part has relied on improving resolution, and frame rate, but at what point do we allow Tensor cores to effectively render the entire game? Or is it more nuanced than that?
16gb would be a HUGE win over 12 in terms of porting current gen games. 2 extra gb for games is massive when downporting if we’re thinking the other 2 would be for the OS.Honestly 12 or 16 gb doesn't matter. Sure 16 would be better, but I'm not complaining about 12. It would still be a huge jump.
Eh the difference between 12 and 16 is 4?16gb would be a HUGE win over 12 in terms of porting current gen games. 2 extra gb for games is massive when downporting if we’re thinking the other 2 would be for the OS.
The user has to manually change the refresh rate (e.g. 60 Hz to 40 Hz) for the Steam Deck's display.A panel with multiple fixed hz modes which I assume what SD has, is not VRR?
Well, maybe. I don't think Nintendo is thinking this nefariously, but a 16GB Switch 2 might make it an easier choice for Japan-heavy games to be NSW2/PS5 multiplatform and not bother with the extra porting trouble of Series S.And the Series S exists, so devs needs to make concessions for a small memory pool regardless of NG.
I would love to see the reactions to this.Well, maybe. I don't think Nintendo is thinking this nefariously, but a 16GB Switch 2 might make it an easier choice for Japan-heavy games to be NSW2/PS5 multiplatform and not bother with the extra porting trouble of Series S.
There is Xbox Series S and the new Switch will have DLSS. A big difference.16gb would be a HUGE win over 12 in terms of porting current gen games. 2 extra gb for games is massive when downporting if we’re thinking the other 2 would be for the OS.
So, but a CPU that generates frames every 20ms together with a GPU generating frames every 13ms, would be equal to 30 FPS. By replacing the GPU with one that generated the same frames every 5ms, the game would run at 40FPS.I may be incorrect in this in the architecture, but in terms of load, if you benchmark a game you can see alternating periods of CPU load and GPU load, so at the very least there is inefficient use of these resources. Which is understandable, parallelism is hard.
I suspect this is just because of the CPU not being able to keep the GPU fed. You can be CPU bound regardless of how threaded your implementation.
Hate the EightI mean I'm fine with 12 or 16 gb. The important thing is that it's not 8.
I was expecting a leak of the specs by someone by now. So I assuming for each company it is either the lead architect or someone designated to interact with the Switch 2. Also, not many indie if any receive their dev kits.2 months away is enough time to not hear anything until February
Probably nobody is leaking the speaks or has already leaked the specs because we already have the exact range the specs will be inI was expecting a leak of the specs by someone by now. So I assuming for each company it is either the lead architect or someone designated to interact with the Switch 2. Also, not many indie if any receive their dev kits.
What more is there to leak? We've known so much for so long, the narrowing of possibilities wouldn't significantly change capabilities.I was expecting a leak of the specs by someone by now. So I assuming for each company it is either the lead architect or someone designated to interact with the Switch 2. Also, not many indie if any receive their dev kits.
Even the lcd SD supports 40hz. I don't think cost would be prohibitive if Nintendo really wanted to have the feature.
I don't think they really want it though, pure for parity reasons with docked mode.
Sorry to post you twice, but is that really true though? VRR is a screen that syncs output with the source. A panel with multiple fixed hz modes which I assume what SD has, is not VRR?
My old 1080p tv supports 24hz mode for Blu-rays. It certainly isn't VRR.
That seems to be NVIDIA's current far future fantasy. Check out this demo from about 4 years back. But how long until something like that is practical, and the many steps we'll see between now and then are still going to be surprises.
Yes 4 extra versus 12 and as I said let’s say 2 is used for the OS.Eh the difference between 12 and 16 is 4?
And the Series S exists, so devs needs to make concessions for a small memory pool regardless of NG.
I dunno! With the state of generative AI on one hand, and "neural shaders" on the other, it certainly seems possible. It's Nvidia's stated goal. But I think that's a couple leaps beyond where we are now.You talked about DLSS being used to “…quickly guess what would have been rendered…” And you mentioned post-processing effects like motion blue, DOF, film grain, etc.
What I’m curious though is could Tensor cores be used to upscale other aspects of the graphics pipeline such as particle effects, textures, lighting, shadows, etc? I know DLSS has Ray Reconstruction, which sounds kinda like what I’m getting at, but that appears to reflect on Ray-Tracing in general.
DLSS for the most part has relied on improving resolution, and frame rate, but at what point do we allow Tensor cores to effectively render the entire game? Or is it more nuanced than that?
Why do you think they are using a chop from a car? They are not using a chip from a carCan some one explain to me why the Switch 2 would be using a chip from a car?
I know there’s a lot of info to go through but please review the first post of this thread (by Dakhill).Can some one explain to me why the Switch 2 would be using a chip from a car? I understand that Nvidia does not really have a mobile line of soc’s they can just pull from for Nintendo, but without seeing actual sales numbers I have to assume that the Tegra X1 has to be one of Nvidia‘s best selling chips ever.
Assuming that Switch 2 also sells between 100 & 150 million units, wouldn’t it be worth the big R&D investment to make a custom Chip for Nintendo’s unique needs?
You mean this post from Thraktor, I assume:
https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...-staff-posts-before-commenting.55/post-889301
It's good you remembered it. It's an excellent post indeed.
Requirements might have been a strong word. It's what Nvidia recommends as best practice in their programming guide, but in some developer talks they've mentioned that, even when Nvidia is working with a developer directly, sometimes their engine (or their deadline) makes getting "good enough" a priority over "best possible." They've specifically mentioned that there are games they've worked on that need to do DLSS after post-processing, and it still works.
I expect that Nintendo/Nvidia will just integrate the existing best practices into their documentation, but it will be up to devs to decide what to do. I can certainly imagine a developer deciding that the performance wins of a less-than-optimal DLSS implementation are totally worth it.
What might be interesting is if we had some kind of example of "1440p, well implemented DLSS" versus "4k, fast-and-loose DLSS" so we could could see, subjectively, which folks might prefer. It would be especially nice if it was in a format where folks could stream the comparison to their smart TVs without a shitload of compression artifacts. One thing that I think gets lost when we talk about these things - folks are hunched over their computer looking at stills or compressed youtube video, and making conclusions about the "best" technique. It would be great to have a way to see something blown up on a huge TV... but 6 feet away and see what they can notice then.
Or the reverse on a tiny handheld screen. That's part of why the Steam Deck shifted my opinions on FSR. FSR is demonstrably shittier at lower resolutions and higher upscaling factors, by like... a lot. But there is no handheld hardware for trying out DLSS! There is no one doing comprehensive testing of DLSS vs FSR wired up to a 50+ inch television. I was playing Control for like 50 hours on my Steam Deck before I noticed FSR artifacts - artifacts I'd seen hundreds of times in comparison tests - that were cropping up regularly in game play. It would be one thing if FSR didn't offer a technical benefit, but it's substantially faster.
I started to see how DLSS was a great feature, but not necessarily a "every AAA game will use this" tool. I also started to see more value in Ultra Performance than I had before. It's not a gorgeous upscale, but again, we're talking about game under console conditions, very different from the way these technologies have been tested in the past.
TL;DR - developers will have a range of choices when it comes to upscaling. I think that instead of the number of choices coalescing quickly around a single option, I expect the options to expand over the course of the generation, as AMD, NVidia, and Epic continue to compete and collaborate.
I meant more on the dev side. Instead of ransom leakWhat more is there to leak? We've known so much for so long, the narrowing of possibilities wouldn't significantly change capabilities.
There's other stuff we don't know outside of the actual soc itself. Like what system festure does it have. And that supposed camera.Probably nobody is leaking the speaks or has already leaked the specs because we already have the exact range the specs will be in
and assuming Switch 2 uses T239 we already know pretty much everything about it
I know there’s a lot of info to go through but please review the first post of this thread (by Dakhill).
T239 is not a chip for cars so I don’t know where that notion came from.
Why do you think they are using a chop from a car? They are not using a chip from a car
Edited to add: Not disrespectful, I just can't help you if I don't understand where you're coming from.
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T234 was the starting point (basis chip) for T239. Orin family. To my understanding there are chips in Orin family that are used for automotive purposes.I think the idea that the T239 being associated with cars is because some of the resumes people have dug up mention them side by side.
If you go to this post, you'll see this line:
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I think this example isn't the greatest, because there's the distinction with the /. Still kinda confusing. I personally have seen the idea that the chip comes from a car several times, including in various (probably) fake leaks. Honestly I'm interested in the history of the T239 if y'all know. Was the starting point a chip they used in a car or something? That would explain why so many people associate the T239 with cars. Though it's probably just someone read one of those resumes, got it mixed up, and wrote some 4chan leaks about it.
To be fair it's not the most absurd thing for a mobile console to share a platform with a car computer. Low energy consumption is a must, but it must be performant and stable- in a car for safety reasons, glitches cause crashes self driving or no self driving, and in a console for more obvious reasons, glitches and low performance means games that are worse to play.I think any confusion on the matter could originate from how people interpreted the Eurogamer article discussing T239, where they talk about how T234 is the base that T239 came from. I think someone could read that and just condense everything into "Oh, so it's a chip for cars", and it seems quite a few people have.
Thanks for linking that - yeah that article is a good starting point into learning how T239 came to beI think any confusion on the matter could originate from how people interpreted the Eurogamer article discussing T239, where they talk about how T234 is the base that T239 came from. I think someone could read that and just condense everything into "Oh, so it's a chip for cars", and it seems quite a few people have.
I totally understand why you're saying cut down, but I think it gives the wrong impression to folks catching up.T234 was the starting point (basis chip) for T239. Orin family. To my understanding there are chips in Orin family that are used for automotive purposes.
T239 is T234 cut down, custom made for Switch 2 (unlike Switch’s T210 which was off the shelf chip)
I have always thought it was exactly that, T239 basically is T234 design but with unnecessary (automotive/robotics related) elements removed. The Eurogamer article used similar language (T239 is T234 with elements cut out basically)I totally understand why you're saying cut down, but I think it gives the wrong impression to folks catching up.
They're sibling chips, designed in parallel, and they share technology. Drake cuts some of Orin's features, but the overall design is more a family resemblance, than actually one being sliced down from the other.
I guess i get where you're coming from, seeing that Orin is also utilized for cars, but that's just an architecture name. Orin is used for a family of products for many different types of applications . "Orin" is pretty much the name given for the way the chip is "built", if we were to summarize it. So yes, it is used for cars, but that is a scaled down, modified version of a chip built utilizing the Orin's architectureCan some one explain to me why the Switch 2 would be using a chip from a car? I understand that Nvidia does not really have a mobile line of soc’s they can just pull from for Nintendo, but without seeing actual sales numbers I have to assume that the Tegra X1 has to be one of Nvidia‘s best selling chips ever.
Assuming that Switch 2 also sells between 100 & 150 million units, wouldn’t it be worth the big R&D investment to make a custom Chip for Nintendo’s unique needs?
Are we going to see people saying that "Switch 2 is actually just a rebranded car stereo" like how some people have rewritten history to claim that Switch 1 is a mobile phone from 2015 and was underpowered when it was released?
Count on it. Meanwhile we all are enjoying Metroid Prime 4 on our new shiny Switch 2, those words mean nothingAre we going to see people saying that "Switch 2 is actually just a rebranded car stereo" like how some people have rewritten history to claim that Switch 1 is a mobile phone from 2015 and was underpowered when it was released?
I have always thought it was exactly that, T239 basically is T234 design but with unnecessary (automotive/robotics related) elements removed. The Eurogamer article used similar language (T239 is T234 with elements cut out basically)
Just using T234 for a gaming console won’t work as well as T239 would, so in this case “cut down” is completely beneficial.
But think I understand what you mean, saying “T234 cut down” can give an appearance to newcomers to the topic Switch 2 is getting “scraps” but in reality it’s customized to work better for Switch 2 in comparison to using something like T234
It also misses out that T239 has some things T234 didn't, so it's beyond a T234--. The File Decompression Engine seems like the big one, at least for how much it's come up around here.I have always thought it was exactly that, T239 basically is T234 design but with unnecessary (automotive/robotics related) elements removed. The Eurogamer article used similar language (T239 is T234 with elements cut out basically)
Just using T234 for a gaming console won’t work as well as T239 would, so in this case “cut down” is completely beneficial.
But think I understand what you mean, saying “T234 cut down” can give an appearance to newcomers to the topic Switch 2 is getting “scraps” but in reality it’s customized to work better for Switch 2 in comparison to using something like T234
True about FDE. I think A78C is unconfirmed (right?) but it surely cannot be anything else. And yes potentially different node process.That implies that the t234 contains everything the t239 does. T239 have a different cpu (A78C instead of A78). A file decompression engine that T234 doesn’t have. More updated Ampere api. A different SM configuration I believed. And probably a different node. Everything you expect a custom chip to be
so a Ford Focus RS"Switch 2 is just an overclocked Ford focus"
This isn't the first time Nintendo has used a hardware derivative designed for their consoles.I think any confusion on the matter could originate from how people interpreted the Eurogamer article discussing T239, where they talk about how T234 is the base that T239 came from. I think someone could read that and just condense everything into "Oh, so it's a chip for cars", and it seems quite a few people have.
"cut down" and "based on" all give the wrong impression. they just use the same architectures and that's about it. but they are two chips designed for two different purposesTrue about FDE. I think A78C is unconfirmed (right?) but it surely cannot be anything else. And yes potentially different node process.
I’ll admit “cut down” is not the best phrase to use for customized chip that is based on T234 but not necessarily exactly same as T234 but with elements removed
I’ll give that to you for “cut down” but isn’t T234 said to be “basis chip” for T239, whatever that means?"cut down" and "based on" all give the wrong impression. they just use the same architectures and that's about it. but they are two chips designed for two different purposes
it's more like a taco bell menu: same ingredients but put together differentlyI’ll give that to you for “cut down” but isn’t T234 said to be “basis chip” for T239, whatever that means?
Can some one explain to me why the Switch 2 would be using a chip from a car?
The Subaru Forester SUV is built on the same architecture as the Subaru WRX sport sedan and I am not kidding."cut down" and "based on" all give the wrong impression. they just use the same architectures and that's about it. but they are two chips designed for two different purposes
The cost of 12 vs 16 is probably almost the same?12 is the best we should expect.
True about FDE. I think A78C is unconfirmed (right?) but it surely cannot be anything else. And yes potentially different node process.
I’ll admit “cut down” is not the best phrase to use for customized chip that is based on T234 but not necessarily exactly same as T234 but with elements removed
to avoid over allocating memory for four clusters always.
People just be saying anything out here. I was watching a video of a Skyward Sword 4K texture pack and there were a string of predictable "fans do what Nintendont" and "Nintendo scams their userbase with a 2015 tablet".Are we going to see people saying that "Switch 2 is actually just a rebranded car stereo" like how some people have rewritten history to claim that Switch 1 is a mobile phone from 2015 and was underpowered when it was released?