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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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My main question about the Switch 2’s third party support is about UE5 as:

1. UE5 seems to rely a lot on asset streaming for Nanite
2. UE4 and UE5 have a bunch of stutters in general from what I assume are RAM issues

So I do wonder how those will pair with the Switch 2’s expected low-ish bandwidth.
 
If any console ever deserved the reputation of being 2 previous consoles duct taped together, its the ps4 pro.

"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

www.eurogamer.net

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
 
Yeah what’s sad is the Wii isn’t even 2 GameCubes
Its 1 GameCube with a ram increase and higher clock speed
2 GameCubes duct taped together was being generous
 
darthdiablo said:
👀

HEA7Miw.png


Maybe it's in process of being updated (not done) - because when I checked, it's still only showing me up to end of August for Vietnamese entries. Will check again later.
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I'm confused, what am I looking at?
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
My main question about the Switch 2’s third party support is about UE5 as:

1. UE5 seems to rely a lot on asset streaming for Nanite
2. UE4 and UE5 have a bunch of stutters in general from what I assume are RAM issues

So I do wonder how those will pair with the Switch 2’s expected low-ish bandwidth.
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how much a game has to stream in varies game by game. if you don't have million polygon assets and many 4K textures, you don't need so much bandwidth and speed. The Matrix Awakens used 300MB/s on consoles, for instance

UE4/5 stutters aren't hardware related. that's all engine problems. you can't power through that with the most powerful hardware you can buy
 
Since the CPU is likely to be the bottleneck for Switch 2, do you guys think Nintendo will have a CPU/GPU configuration for developers to choose from that allows the CPU to be clocked higher than normal in exchange for clocking the GPU lower? I think DLSS will make this idea more feasible, and i think Rockstar could get Nintendo to allow this if it meant GTA 6 could come to Switch 2 without issue.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Mark Cerny. He's a veteran game dev and current higher-up at Sony, being the lead designer of the PS4 and PS5, as well as a producer on the Insomniac Spider-Man games, Death Stranding, and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.
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Actually his work for Sony is purely contract based. He isn't a Sony employee.
 
Mr.Gamerson said:
Since the CPU is likely to be the bottleneck for Switch 2, do you guys think Nintendo will have a CPU/GPU configuration for developers to choose from that allows the CPU to be clocked higher than normal in exchange for clocking the GPU lower? I think DLSS will make this idea more feasible, and i think Rockstar could get Nintendo to allow this if it meant GTA 6 could come to Switch 2 without issue.
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There's not really that many CPU focused games and Unreal 5 will probably make there be even less CPU usage.

Avatar the game should have high CPU usage, but doesn't because so few games do.

GTA6, Baldur's Gate 3, and only a few others are games to be concerned about porting.
 
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Mr.Gamerson said:
Since the CPU is likely to be the bottleneck for Switch 2, do you guys think Nintendo will have a CPU/GPU configuration for developers to choose from that allows the CPU to be clocked higher than normal in exchange for clocking the GPU lower? I think DLSS will make this idea more feasible, and i think Rockstar could get Nintendo to allow this if it meant GTA 6 could come to Switch 2 without issue.
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I doubt Rockstar would even care. More than likely, the Switch 2's CPU would be enough and it's more on the devs to actually properly optimize the games instead of relying on brute force.
 
nyaako said:
I doubt Rockstar would even care. More than likely, the Switch 2's CPU would be enough and it's more on the devs to actually properly optimize the games instead of relying on brute force.
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Well, if they really do that on current gan, to ramp up the simulation as much as they possibly can, the cpu might be a problem on Drake.

Lazy dev rhetoric is frowned upon here fyi.
 
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Mass production will likely start 5-6 months before HW release date.

So if its a september/october release then MP will start around march-may.

Thats when next HW will be formally announced. Otherwise, factory leaks will be completely unavoidable.

But I think gaming/media outlets will start posting leaks from software partners with devkits around january-march. I don’t think we will hear too much concrete games being confirmed for Switch 2 until HW is revealed due to protecting their sources.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Mark Cerny. He's a veteran game dev and current higher-up at Sony, being the lead designer of the PS4 and PS5, as well as a producer on the Insomniac Spider-Man games, Death Stranding, and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.
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Yeah I knew about him from his involvement in Sega. I even knew that he was the hardware architect of the PS5 so not sure why I didn't make that connection. I guess I forgot about his name.
 
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Developers have had to to optimize around the Jaguar CPU cores for years, so they have experience with moving various task around to different cores to get the needed performance. The PS5/Series consoles have made their lives easier thanks to drastically superior performance per core with the Ryzen CPU, but at least currently, I suspect most games are only heavy on the first few cores with the rest humming along with low usage. This is typical when observing CPU utilization on PC. The A78C cores will be less capable than the Ryzen cores for sure, but there will be opportunities to find additional performance through improved multi threading. The A78C cores will be significantly more capable than the Jaguar cores in the PS4/X1, and those consoles got games like RDR2 and Elden Ring. So I am not really concerned that the CPU performance will be a limiting factor for creating these types of experiences on SNG.
 
P4bl0 said:
Theory time:

Since we’re getting a Switch 2 most likely, we’re keeping the same form factor.

Maybe it didn’t make sense to drop a trailer ?

I mean what could they show on the trailer ?

That’s a switch ! You can play on your TV and outside we already know that

They aren’t going to be able to show the graphics properly on a trailer where we see the Switch 2 from a distance/tv (in the case we we were expecting a trailer similar to the original one)


Maybe we’re getting a Presentation straight in January/Feb with no Trailer 3 months before that.

I think the October Switch trailer was the exception and maybe we shouldn’t expect the same to happen again

Maybe expecting a trailer before the presentation was our mistake and we’re getting the presentation straight. One day before Nintendo Live in Japan in January

That was my take
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Honestly, if this is the case, the only reason to announce it is if it's beyond where an NDA has any real effect. The retailers need to know when it's going to happen months in advance (at least the big ones that will be having midnight launches and coordinated lines and need to re-arrange shelves) and the developers need to know. If it's a secret that everyone knows and there are pictures of the thing on the internet, then the impact of the trailers and presentation are very dulled.

And you're right that the lack of the change in concept (which I agree with) is a reason for not needing an early trailer. It's a double-edged sword though. In what ways can they advertise a differentiation. famicom -> super famicom was easy - more buttons and more colors. -> n64 was also easy since it added 3D. -> Gamecube they added a optical drive and a great, but ill-advised controller (I have a rant). Wii had waggle. Wii U had a tablet (but they still managed to screw that up, but it wasn't the tablet's fault). Switch was purely handheld.

What can they do for Switch 2? It's a problem if they just tack something on to the side. My actual biggest hope is that they leave it alone, but have Ring Fit 2 as a launch title with the accessory being a ring that supports the better joycons (big enough for man hands) and they use the bigger joycons as part of the differentiation - even if the big differentiation is more CPU/GPU grunt.
 
Not doing a reveal trailer for a Switch successor doesn't make a lick of sense tbh, this isn't worth speculating.

Nintendo have been very good at marketing the Switch itself and any variants, they aren't gonna have any trouble marketing brand new hardware that will showcase games not available on the current Switch, first and third party.
 
Goodtwin said:
I suspect most games are only heavy on the first few cores with the rest humming along with low usage. This is typical when observing CPU utilization on PC. The A78C cores will be less capable than the Ryzen cores for sure, but there will be opportunities to find additional performance through improved multi threading.
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I am very dubious about this. The reason that only a few cores are utilized is because good multi-threading is incredibly hard. Getting more multi-threaded performance isn't a high level optimization, but deep, serious engine work.

If we're talking about native games, sure, Nintendo has a real incentive to push for a well multi-threaded engine internally. If we're talking about ports, and a game is CPU constrained coming from the PS5 down to the Switch NG, "better multi-threading" is unlikely to ever be a viable solution.
 
Adulfzen said:
Not doing a reveal trailer for a Switch successor doesn't make a lick of sense tbh, this isn't worth speculating.

Nintendo have been very good at marketing the Switch itself and any variants, they aren't gonna have any trouble marketing brand new hardware that will showcase games not available on the current Switch, first and third party.
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I think it's more a matter of when than if. Switch Lite was about 70 days and Switch OLED was about 90 days.
 
bmfrosty said:
I think it's more a matter of when than if. Switch Lite was about 70 days and Switch OLED was about 90 days.
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I can only imagine it'll be a bigger gap between reveal and release compared to those two if you include things like a livestreamed event to present the software and hardware, then rounds of previews closer to release, maybe even a general direct included in there too.

Devkit/developer documentation distribution ahead of launch would also be relatively important for smaller studios/developers because you'll need to give those people time not for necessarily the launch day, week, month or even year but also guaranteeing a steady flow of releases past that as some ports will take longer than others (and physical distribution).

In a lot of ways replicating what they did with the current Switch would probably yield good results but obviously I think software is even more important as you lose a bit of the "wow factor" the current Switch benefited from initially with the docking and undocking we all take for granted now (tho none of the handheld pcs people like to bring up do it as well as the Switch still which is the strength of a very focused vision).
 
MP! said:
its all I ever dreamed of
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Once I had a dream that all the friends who I no longer speak to forgave me, and that the fire never happened, and my loved ones were still alive.

But a more powerful Switch would be pretty cool. Also, sometimes in my dreams I can fly.
 
oldpuck said:
I am very dubious about this. The reason that only a few cores are utilized is because good multi-threading is incredibly hard. Getting more multi-threaded performance isn't a high level optimization, but deep, serious engine work.

If we're talking about native games, sure, Nintendo has a real incentive to push for a well multi-threaded engine internally. If we're talking about ports, and a game is CPU constrained coming from the PS5 down to the Switch NG, "better multi-threading" is unlikely to ever be a viable solution.
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True, but my theory is that because Ryzen has given developers such a drastic leap in per core performance over the Jaguar cores, developers will have less reason to go looking for improvements to the multi threading in their games, at least in the short term. As time goes along and game start to push harder and harder on more and more of the Ryzen cores, that will make it all the more challenging for the conversion to SNG. Still, I find likely that the situation is superior to three A57 cores vs six Jaguar cores.
 
Hermii said:
I suppose. I just can't image they will do a Switch 2 trailer that will be in the same style of the prequel, just with better visuals.

I suppose they will focus even more on the "home console on the go" aspect.
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this is probably where new games would really come into play. focus on what you can't do with a switch. if that means better visuals, fine. whatever new gimmick, that'll take up some time. selling "better" isn't a new thing, but or Nintendo since they have focused on new gimmicks in the past couple decades, is gonna have to relearn old tricks. but it shouldn't be difficult for them
 
Hermii said:
Recreating the same wow factor from the Switch reveal trailer will indeed be a challenge this time around. Will fancy graphics and fast loading be enough?
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That's part of why I was thinking/hoping nintendo would lean into one or both of the following:

  • Connectivity with Switch 1s and Smartphones for use as secondary screens
  • Built in full-color cameras for better motion tracking and WiiU/3DS/DSi emulation
 
Hermii said:
Recreating the same wow factor from the Switch reveal trailer will indeed be a challenge this time around. Will fancy graphics and fast loading be enough?
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4K Mario and Mario Kart will be a huge pop, but I think a lot will be carried by the "Skyrim" of Switch 2.
Elden Ring, GTA 6, etc whatever it will be
 
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Adulfzen said:
I can only imagine it'll be a bigger gap between reveal and release compared to those two if you include things like a livestreamed event to present the software and hardware, then rounds of previews closer to release, maybe even a general direct included in there too.

Devkit/developer documentation distribution ahead of launch would also be relatively important for smaller studios/developers because you'll need to give those people time not for necessarily the launch day, week, month or even year but also guaranteeing a steady flow of releases past that as some ports will take longer than others (and physical distribution).

In a lot of ways replicating what they did with the current Switch would probably yield good results but obviously I think software is even more important as you lose a bit of the "wow factor" the current Switch benefited from initially with the docking and undocking we all take for granted now (tho none of the handheld pcs people like to bring up do it as well as the Switch still which is the strength of a very focused vision).
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I think that NDA can cover keeping details from leaking from developers well enough - I think NDA starts to fail once Target and Walmart and Gamestop have to start doing their work. I think that's where 70-90 days is the shortest possible lead time. Maybe once a funcle of some sort starts putting out pictures of the new body or something. If it's close enough to the current body (which it should be) then even that's not exciting. Same with a joycon that's revised - could just be a 3rd party joycon.
 
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Hermii said:
Recreating the same wow factor from the Switch reveal trailer will indeed be a challenge this time around. Will fancy graphics and fast loading be enough?
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I think they have to go overboard like really overboard considering how big of a transition they are making.

Fancy 3D Mario
Elden Ring DLC
New Software/Hardware gimmick
Zelda Something - TOTK Remaster or Something else idk
Unique and fun UI
Multiplayer Nintendo game (splatoon or ultimate idk)
EA sports FC
Some absurd looking Mario Kart X mechanic shown for a split second that immediately makes you look at the diddy kong update like trash.
Panning shot of livlng room girl playing GTA 6, getting up pulling the Switch 2 out of the dock and leaving.

Website goes up, switch 2 box has nvidia logo stamped on it as well as a 4k symbol.
 
Goodtwin said:
Developers have had to to optimize around the Jaguar CPU cores for years, so they have experience with moving various task around to different cores to get the needed performance. The PS5/Series consoles have made their lives easier thanks to drastically superior performance per core with the Ryzen CPU, but at least currently, I suspect most games are only heavy on the first few cores with the rest humming along with low usage. This is typical when observing CPU utilization on PC. The A78C cores will be less capable than the Ryzen cores for sure, but there will be opportunities to find additional performance through improved multi threading. The A78C cores will be significantly more capable than the Jaguar cores in the PS4/X1, and those consoles got games like RDR2 and Elden Ring. So I am not really concerned that the CPU performance will be a limiting factor for creating these types of experiences on SNG.
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Quad core PCs are still extremely common across the board, so it's unlikely that this will change this... Decade.
 
Odd thing, but has anyone else noticed that Nvidia abandoned having separate product names and codenames for Tegra chips? For example, the Tegra X1 had three different names: the product name (Tegra X1), the model name (T210), and the codename (Erista), but Orin just has the latter two (T234 and Orin). Will the T239 just be called “Nvidia Drake” publicly?
 
redmutineer75 said:
Odd thing, but has anyone else noticed that Nvidia abandoned having separate product names and codenames for Tegra chips? For example, the Tegra X1 had three different names: the product name (Tegra X1), the model name (T210), and the codename (Erista), but Orin just has the latter two (T234 and Orin). Will the T239 just be called “Nvidia Drake” publicly?
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T239 will not have a public name as it's a customer product. Tegra as a brand pretty much died because there wasn't much public face to it. after the Tegra Xavier, they just dumped the tegra name
 
Oh, emulator people think that Pokemon SV runs so poorly because it's draw call fucked and their engine is sending in way too many draw calls, killing the CPU. They never needed to optimize draw calls before because prior games didn't have much on screen.





This is super fixable, but I'm not sure it will be fixed.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Odd thing, but has anyone else noticed that Nvidia abandoned having separate product names and codenames for Tegra chips? For example, the Tegra X1 had three different names: the product name (Tegra X1), the model name (T210), and the codename (Erista), but Orin just has the latter two (T234 and Orin). Will the T239 just be called “Nvidia Drake” publicly?
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Adding to what Ilikefeet said, Orin is made for cars. The car is being marketed, not the chip. Drake is made for Nintendo, Nvidia wont try to sell it to other customers so it doesn't need a public facing model name.
 
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Neoxon said:
I'm confused, what am I looking at?
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A screenshot from the database being utilized to gather shipping data for the Nintendo Switch
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.


redmutineer75 said:
being the lead designer of the PS4 and PS5
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So, did he design the hardware? Like, the current aesthetic design?

Re: Switch 2 Trailer - Of course Nintendo is gonna drop a trailer. They should follow the Switch marketing as a blueprint, make adjustments where they need to be made. And obviously, the Switch 2 won’t have the same wow effect as the original one did. They already presented a hybrid console.

Re: Switch 2’s Skyrim - I’m inclined to believe that Elden Ring will be the successor’s Skyrim. I don’t think GTA6 will come to Switch
 
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