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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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snorkellingfish said:
I think the challenge is that those games wouldn't look massively different on Switch 2.

So far as we know so far, the Switch 2 has no major new gimmick to distinguish it from the Switch 1. Assuming that's true, what will sell it is that it offers the same thing, but better. To do that, they need a game that is perceivable better than what the Switch 1 can offer, to show off its capabilities.

That doesn't mean that their killer showcase game can't be supplemented by cross-gen games and existing games with next-gen patches. I expect that it will be. But they do need to have at least one big launch game to convince people to buy. I can't imagine them risking a repeat of the troubled 3DS launch or, worse, the Wii U launch - both of which were impacted by a lack of system-selling games.

I'm the sort of person who'll buy Switch 2 on faith in what's coming. Most people will buy it because there's That Game they want to play now.

Basically - while I'd love to see a 2023 release, and I'm still mentally trying to bargain a way for it to fit in with the upcoming release schedule, at this point I'm not expecting it until the new year.

I could accept Mario RPG as a late gen port, like Luigi's Mansion 3DS, but I feel like Mario Wonder is too big and too close to the holiday season for me to reconcile its coexistence with a second equally big Switch 2 launch title. If they're releasing 3D Mario in November, it doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't hold back Mario Wonder to be an early 2024 release, to give both games time to breathe.

I would love to be wrong, though!
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Nintendo usually doesn't launch their systems with a single game. If it's launching this year, there's probably a second launch title we don't know about yet. One that's aiming for something different than Mario.
 
snorkellingfish said:
So far as we know so far, the Switch 2 has no major new gimmick to distinguish it from the Switch 1. Assuming that's true, what will sell it is that it offers the same thing, but better. To do that, they need a game that is perceivable better than what the Switch 1 can offer, to show off its capabilities.
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We know absolutely nothing beyond very likely chipset, we are a million miles away from making any assumptions whatsoever on gimmicks or USP.
 
BowserIsMyFather said:
Because it was me you were responding to?
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Well, you were including Cuphead as the XGS games that are being sent to Switch, in response to a previous comment, and that game is not from XGS.


Just that, a correction. But I see on later coments that you are aware that, indeed, cuphead are not from XGS, so I don't think there is any need to still speaking about it.
 
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D36 said:
It's just donned on me that if Redrakted is launching Holiday next year, it might also launch with a mainline Pokemon game and that's never happened before. These games are also very likely to be remakes; I wonder if they'll be cross-gen
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It dawned on you, huh? I find their model of waiting a year before launching a game on the incumbent system usually works best regardless of sales. Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee was a gamble because they weren't sure if Switch would be a household hit given Nintendo's track record with home consoles despite the Switch's hybrid status but they did it anyway. Though if the whole enhancement patch idea were true, I suppose that could be the next best thing.
 
Ojoloco said:
Well, you were including Cuphead as the XGS games that are being sent to Switch, in response to a previous comment, and that game is not from XGS.


Just that, a correction. But I see on later coments that you are aware that, indeed, cuphead are not from XGS, so I don't think there is any need to think about it.
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Lol ok
 
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D36 said:
I'm saying none of that could be relevant. Cynically speaking, if Mario Wonder launched with this thing, people would still buy it in droves because 2D or 3D, it's still mainline Mario. Nintendo could use any other Switch game or a third-party game to show off how powerful Redrakted is. That's also assuming that Wonder will the only first-party launch title and we don't get something that will better showcase that this is a more powerful system. Also, I doubt those games will look massively different on Redrakted compared to something like Tears of the Kingdom, judging from what we've seen from them so far.
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An Earthbound remake would be a perfect candidate to launch the new Console with. It provides unique colorful world, that if fully realized in 3D could be jaw dropping. Magicant (Earthbound Location) already looks amazing in Smash Ultimate.
 
Kingpin722 said:
An Earthbound remake would be a perfect candidate to launch the new Console with. It provides unique colorful world, that if fully realized in 3D could be jaw dropping. Magicant (Earthbound Location) already looks amazing in Smash Ultimate.
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As much as I would want that (expeditiously, in fact), I don't think it would be launch day material. Definitely launch window, though.
 
Kingpin722 said:
An Earthbound remake would be a perfect candidate to launch the new Console with. It provides unique colorful world, that if fully realized in 3D could be jaw dropping. Magicant (Earthbound Location) already looks amazing in Smash Ultimate.
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I'd love the original Mother or a Mother 1+2 done with QoL changes to make the first game much like the 2nd and 3rd games, all built on the Link's Awakening HD engine so everything feels like a diorama or series of clay models. That would be the dream, plus gives Creatures another thing to do when they're not busy slaving over a hot render-farm over the next line of Pocket Monsters.
 
KeijiKG said:
I'd love the original Mother or a Mother 1+2 done with QoL changes to make the first game much like the 2nd and 3rd games, all built on the Link's Awakening HD engine so everything feels like a diorama or series of clay models. That would be the dream, plus gives Creatures another thing to do when they're not busy slaving over a hot render-farm over the next line of Pocket Monsters.
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Personally for me, if they were going to do this, they should do it for three. 1 and 2 are already available.
 
JesusSaves7 said:
Personally for me, if they were going to do this, they should do it for three. 1 and 2 are already available.
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Same. This would give them the chance to recompose most of the soundtrack, so that it won't lead to any legal trouble (they'll probably have to hire a ton of composers for that, it would also need to retain the spirit of the game) and redesign and slightly rewrite some, if not all of the Magypsies to make them more tasteful while retaining what Itoi's vision for them. People would complain, but them's the breaks 🤷‍♂️
 
Leviraps said:
So you’re suggesting the big launch day title for the Switch 2 isn’t even an exclusive but a cross gen title? Yeah I don’t buy that. What’s stopping the vast majority of users from just sticking with the switch version and not buying the Pro altogether? Let’s not forget Metroid isn’t a heavy hitter like Mario and Zelda. Too many risks involved when you want to nail the launch.

And sure PS5 had Miles Morales at launch, but it also had Demon Souls, which was exclusive to it. Again 3D Mario fits the bill and has fit the bill ever since TOTK released.
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well the launch title for Switch was also a cross-gen game(Breath of the Wild) what the difference here? Breath of the Wild to Switch and Metroid Prime 4 to Switch sucessor?
 
KeijiKG said:
I'd love the original Mother or a Mother 1+2 done with QoL changes to make the first game much like the 2nd and 3rd games, all built on the Link's Awakening HD engine so everything feels like a diorama or series of clay models. That would be the dream, plus gives Creatures another thing to do when they're not busy slaving over a hot render-farm over the next line of Pocket Monsters.
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better release Mother 3 in the Link's Awakening remake engine in this diorama/clay style
 
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Cybergatuno said:
I'm starting to suspect that Drake could have been not canceled but sent back to the drawing board.
They realized they could drag the current Switch a couple more years and re-evaluated what they could do on the SoC. Maybe port it to a smaller node, improve memory controllers, RT cores, Tensor cores, maybe they really wanted those DLSS 3.0 improvements (I'm skeptical it would work in a mobile setting, people say it requires high framerates and a lot of power to be effective).
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The level of changes you are talking about are the level of changes between Ampere and Ada across the board. This is a completely new chip.

Cybergatuno said:
It wouldn't be a full redesign. They would reuse the IP, all the validation tooling and drivers would probably be easily updated,
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100% of the validation tooling would change. Electrical validation of a chip changes if you even make minor changes. The drivers would have to be ported to Ada.

Cybergatuno said:
as it would be a very similar chip, but improved where it matters. Could they do it in one year or so?
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Nvidia announced Atlan in 2021 for a 2025 launch. When they wanted to tweak that design, they didn't alter it - the cancelled the original project. That wasn't just branding, the details are in the leak. They scrapped Atlan and went back to the drawing board. The changes between the two are significantly smaller than the changes you are arguing for.

That chip design process will take 3 years.

Not that it matters, because Nintendo would also need to start over. You're altering the memory type, the performance profile, the electrical profile, and the thermal profile of the underlying SOC. Nintendo would need to redesign the motherboard and the cooling system for your new chip

Cybergatuno said:
I don't think they would scrap it entirely. Hundreds of millions down the drain.

Or they're releasing with Drake in 2024, a 2 years old chip
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This is apples to oranges. You're comparing when you heard about the chip from an internal leak to when a product actually makes it out the door. That's like saying the 4090 was over a year old when it came out.

Cybergatuno said:
on a 4-5 years old architecture. A little disappointing but far from shocking.
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It's not really 4-5 years old. I could write a long, technical reply, but the short version is that updating to Ada would not see improved performance, and would likely be a downgrade. Ampere's core design was only a minor upgrade over Turing, and Ada didn't change any of it. It is likely that Blackwell will also retain that core, meaning that it will be as advanced as Nintendo could get till 2028

Moving from Drake's customized Ampere to stock Ada would almost definitely be a downgrade. Ada has no improvements that would benefit Drake that Drake doesn't already have*.

*there is a single possible exception to this, which is ray tracing related, but it would be a huge change for a minor win.
 
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Pokemaniac said:
Nintendo usually doesn't launch their systems with a single game. If it's launching this year, there's probably a second launch title we don't know about yet. One that's aiming for something different than Mario.
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Except they have four games (and maybe a major Pokemon DLC as well) releasing within a few weeks of each other, all launching when you would launch a new console, and none of those games are the type of game you launch with a new system.
 
ziggyrivers said:
I think it’s both:
• BOTW was originally a Wii U exclusive, but Nintendo repurposed it like they did with Twilight Princess;

• BOTW wasn’t going to be ready by Holiday 2016, so they delayed the Switch to launch alongside BOTW
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I think it a stretch to say Nintendo delayed the Switch launch for Zelda. The two points don’t even give credence to that thought:
  1. That’s a given considering the sales of the WiiU & Nintendo being unsure about the Switch.
  2. Considering the Zelda team had about 9 months to port the game after going gold would imply the launch date was set in stone before any potential delay & that the game was holiday ready
  3. The article about the delay from 2015 to 2016 doesn’t even imply a console launch delay. It does though imply them shifting priorities of where the game would launch
  4. Doing a delay like what is implied is very difficult due to the many parties involved & timing
I’m personally remain skeptical unless there are better sources saying otherwise.
 
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Aether said:
Mind you, it was on sale 6 months in its lifespan, and for most of its time you could find it between 20-30€. And it was during a time where there was way less mario games on the switch to chose from. Depending on how nintendo handles this game, it could mean way lower sales simply because of those factors.
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We'll see. The Rabbids part might have turned some people off. Nintendo is better with 1st part crossovers.
Concernt said:
Nintendo Switch BOX - TV ONLY GAMING
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For the Switch at least, I just think it's too late in the game for a docked only/home console. And it's probably gonna sell as well as lite, but not as much as the hybrid models.

Imo, it would make more sense for Switch 2. Release the now traditional hybrid model, and then docked only about 2 years in, or sooner at the earliest.
LukasManak22 said:
The barren H2 theory is out of the window, as it always was. There was no need to announce anything what's coming after TotK before the game was out.
It's pretty apparent ever since few months that next system is Holiday 2024, and that's completely fine. They are gonna ride the train with GameCube remasters, 3DS remasters and other remakes. Things like the Peach game, FE remake and maybe even DK can be a Spring to Summer releases.

Super Mario Bros. Wonder and Super Mario RPG are the last Holiday games for Switch. The next system will probably be confirmed late March before FY ends in a press release for a Holiday release date.
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Imagine lazy 1080p ports of Loz oot and MM! But wait.. 4k with RT on Switch 2!
VegiHam said:
Unless they've been building two different games this whole time, a next gen port of Prime 4 will be limited by what the Switch can do, holding it back from being a true next gen graphics showstopper the way a game built from the ground up for the new system could be.
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We'll probably get something like 4k 60fps on Switch 2 and 720-900p 60fps on switch. We could get Better lighting, particles effects, shadows and textures.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
I’m personally remain skeptical unless there are better sources saying otherwise.
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Your analysis of that source is solid, but the gigaleak is explicit about it.

Nintendo's target launch for Switch was October 2016 with Breath of the Wild as the intended launch game. By around March, it was clear that Breath of the Wild was going to slip, due to problems with the Havok integration. Nintendo hedged their bets by saying "end of fiscal for NX launch" at the shareholder meeting.

Nintendo had shut down Wii U game development for the most part in 2015, when it signed the contract for the Tegra X1. There are no first party studio games between the April 2015 release of Xenoblade Chronicles X and Breath of the Wild nearly 2 years later.

That's why Nintendo launched in March. January and February are holiday doldrums in the west, but they had already stretched their few partner titles out over the last year. So they launched in March, the last possible minute without delaying from that "end of the fiscal" statement.
 
On the other hand the annual shareholder meeting is about to start in Japan, let’s see what they will communicate

The 83rd Annual General Meeting of Shareholders​

Date and Time:Friday, June 23, 2023 at 10 a.m. Japan time
 
EdFiftyNine said:


The FTC are desperate for REDACTED too!
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This is still such a weak argument. I mean yeah the Switch is not a "high performance console", but if you look at gaming as a whole it is still way closer to a PS5 than gaming on smartphone or even PC. The Distribution of games, the prices or the term console exclusive; people see the Switch as a console.

Otherwise what is the Switch? A Toaster?
 
snorkellingfish said:
I think the challenge is that those games wouldn't look massively different on Switch 2.

So far as we know so far, the Switch 2 has no major new gimmick to distinguish it from the Switch 1. Assuming that's true, what will sell it is that it offers the same thing, but better. To do that, they need a game that is perceivable better than what the Switch 1 can offer, to show off its capabilities.
Click to expand...
Following this premise: if Nintendo wants to go for a cross-gen approach with something like MP4, but at the same time, they want people to look at the game running on better hardware and convince them to hop on the new platform, how exactly would they do that?

IMO it's not as easy as just "crank up the graphics on the switch 2 release" because even drake has it's limits. Take metroid prime remastered for instance: on drake they could probably do proper beam lighting, 4k with DLSS or even 1440, fancy particles and fancier lighting overall. But considering how GOOD prime remastered already looks on switch, would the gamer looking at comparisons even care enough to justify buying drake?

My point is: to get to a level of enough of a difference nintendo would've to really make the basic switch MP4 experience miserable. Which I don't think they would considering where their audience is right now (and where they'll be even 2-3+ years after drake launches).

Something like patching a game like wolfenstein, the witcher 3 or doom for drake with multiple enhancements would be completely different. But the problem here is that nintendo consoles sell because of first party titles, but most first party titles on switch are 'good enough' for the average nintendo gamer.

That's why I think they will rely on a new gimmick this time. And that gimmick is better AR and/or VR. Because honestly, they could easily do it with drake and it's about time.
 
Someone was tweeting from the shareholders meeting. The only hardware related question:

XyaHgdb.png

mPWS5DD.png

GRGKszz.png


Obviously the transcript is unofficial, but even so it seems that backward compatibility is heavily implied.

Edit: Okay, a few more hardware related questions were asked. I’ll repost shortly.
 
D36 said:
If it's coming out this year, I think they can get away with launching with just Mario Wonder and a few third-party games that you wouldn't see on Switch. However, I think they can easily slot in another first-party launch that can show off Redrakted's power; Nintendo usually launches their systems with two games, anyway.
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I agree with the idea that Nintendo may have multiple launch titles for Switch 2 targeting different market segments, and that one of them could be a cross-gen game if the other game is more of a graphical showcase.

However, it doesn't make sense to me that Nintendo would announce Mario Wonder for Nintendo Switch if they're planning to re-announce it as a showcase title only a few weeks later.

For me, the combination of the announcement context, launch date and profile of Mario Wonder doesn't make sense if Nintendo are planning an imminent Switch 2 reveal for later this year.

That said, again, I'd be very happy to be wrong.

P4bl0 said:
And everyone has the Switch 1 that’s why a game like a brand new Mario 3D is not realistic for Switch 2 launch day, Nintendo can keep it steady with other exclusives that would demonstrate the power of the console meanwhile
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Nintendo have a balancing act - the Switch 1 will offer sales now, but if there are no exclusives for Switch 2, then there's less incentive to upgrade. I do think they need something to sell the idea of upgrading, which is easier with a desirable exclusive that clearly couldn't offer the same experience on Switch 1.

A game like a 3D Mario is an evergreen that would continue selling as more and more people get Switch 2s. It would, over time, take advantage of a growing Switch 2 launch base, and, through selling consoles, increase the available market for other Switch 2 games. I wouldn't assume that it's sales would be kneecapped to the small initial install base.

That doesn't mean it's the only possible launch title - it's just that it seems a reasonable guess.

niconiconick64 said:
Following this premise: if Nintendo wants to go for a cross-gen approach with something like MP4, but at the same time, they want people to look at the game running on better hardware and convince them to hop on the new platform, how exactly would they do that?

IMO it's not as easy as just "crank up the graphics on the switch 2 release" because even drake has it's limits. Take metroid prime remastered for instance: on drake they could probably do proper beam lighting, 4k with DLSS or even 1440, fancy particles and fancier lighting overall. But considering how GOOD prime remastered already looks on switch, would the gamer looking at comparisons even care enough to justify buying drake?

My point is: to get to a level of enough of a difference nintendo would've to really make the basic switch MP4 experience miserable. Which I don't think they would considering where their audience is right now (and where they'll be even 2-3+ years after drake launches).

Something like patching a game like wolfenstein, the witcher 3 or doom for drake with multiple enhancements would be completely different. But the problem here is that nintendo consoles sell because of first party titles, but most first party titles on switch are 'good enough' for the average nintendo gamer.

That's why I think they will rely on a new gimmick this time. And that gimmick is better AR and/or VR. Because honestly, they could easily do it with drake and it's about time.
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TBH, this is why I don't think Metroid Prime 4 is the most likely big launch game, at least so long as it remains a Switch 1 / cross-gen game. It'd be fantastic to round out a launch window, but I don't see it as being The Game.
 
oldpuck said:
Your analysis of that source is solid, but the gigaleak is explicit about it.

Nintendo's target launch for Switch was October 2016 with Breath of the Wild as the intended launch game. By around March, it was clear that Breath of the Wild was going to slip, due to problems with the Havok integration. Nintendo hedged their bets by saying "end of fiscal for NX launch" at the shareholder meeting.

Nintendo had shut down Wii U game development for the most part in 2015, when it signed the contract for the Tegra X1. There are no first party studio games between the April 2015 release of Xenoblade Chronicles X and Breath of the Wild nearly 2 years later.

That's why Nintendo launched in March. January and February are holiday doldrums in the west, but they had already stretched their few partner titles out over the last year. So they launched in March, the last possible minute without delaying from that "end of the fiscal" statement.
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Yea which falls into Aonuma’s comments about starting in the spring of ‘16 for the Switch version. Which he states was right after ending WiiU dev. Target launches are pretty fluid until they hard commit which the statement shows. Had they missed that then it would have been a delay. I concede though I had forgotten about the gigaleak.
 
Smile said:
Those answers at the hardware meeting are... really what we've been hearing for a while now it feels like.
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If the translations are accurate, it means they’re still sorta clinging to uncharted territory. Switch is in its last legs, but is at the same time treading in uncharted territory
 
snorkellingfish said:
I agree with the idea that Nintendo may have multiple launch titles for Switch 2 targeting different market segments, and that one of them could be a cross-gen game if the other game is more of a graphical showcase.

However, it doesn't make sense to me that Nintendo would announce Mario Wonder for Nintendo Switch if they're planning to re-announce it as a showcase title only a few weeks later.

For me, the combination of the announcement context, launch date and profile of Mario Wonder doesn't make sense if Nintendo are planning an imminent Switch 2 reveal for later this year.

That said, again, I'd be very happy to be wrong.

...
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I agree and I'd be very happy to be wrong as well.

For the rest of 2023 and even early 2024, there's no Xenoblade, no Bayonetta, no modern 3D game.
It seems like they purposefully scheduled only games that wouldn't benefit from a next-gen patch.
This is no hardware launch window.

They're probably holding onto the titles that will benefit from cross-gen (Xenoblade X, 3D Mario, I so want a modern Star Fox) to provide a higher incentive to upgrade.
 
lexony said:
This is still such a weak argument. I mean yeah the Switch is not a "high performance console", but if you look at gaming as a whole it is still way closer to a PS5 than gaming on smartphone or even PC. The Distribution of games, the prices or the term console exclusive; people see the Switch as a console.

Otherwise what is the Switch? A Toaster?
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Microsoft opened themselves up to this when they insisted on using the phrase "feature parity" knowing full well how ridiculous it sounds to imply they would be able to get Warzone working on switch with "feature parity".
 
Damn that Takahashi translation.

I want to know what he really said cause what that translation says is kind of shit.
 
ccff said:
I'll have to look at the official translation, but from my knowledge of Japanese, it seems more accurate to translate it as game developers are greedy rather than game developers are arrogant.
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No way that's what was actually said, was it? You're risking a lot of lost good will if it was.
 
NintenDuvo said:
If im reading right, is Nintendo saying developers are arrogant for pointing out how limited and dated the Switch hardware is?
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It’s bad machine translation. Takahashi was talking about Nintendo’s internal teams. My Japanese reading isn’t great, but I think he said that game developers can be [“particular” or “ambitious”] and try to include many features. Ultrahand came to mind.

Edit: As mentioned in my original post with the screenshots, this isn’t the official transcript. Let’s try not to read too much into it. That said, it sounds to me that Takahashi was humblebragging that their devs had been pushing Switch to its limits.
 
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ccff said:
I'll have to look at the official translation, but from my knowledge of Japanese, it seems more accurate to translate it as game developers are greedy rather than game developers are arrogant.
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That’s still a really shit thing to say.
 
Takahashi doesn‘t say devs are „arrogant“. It should be more read like „greedy“ (literally), since they want to put more and more stuff into games, pushing the boundries.

I am sure it wasn‘t intended to be mean spirited, though.

Edit: too late :D

Double edit: i guess „overly ambitious“ would be what he meant to point out, like one poster mentioned before.
 
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