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Discussion Eiji Aonuma confirms BOTW/TOTK will be the template for Zelda going forward

Zeal543 said:
That's fine, hopefully they don't have to poach talent from Monolith this time around
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Poaching ? Nintendo owns Monolith Soft lmao.
God forbid EPD makes use of the resources they have available to make a great game when their experience with open world was still in its infancy.
 
totofogo said:
We are mere days after us finally getting the pay-off to the years of worries about reusing botw's map, and collectively haven't even scratched the surface of what they've given us.

How anyone can make a blanket claim that a Wind Waker inspired sea-based game is a bad idea with that in mind is entirely lost on me.
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It's because the sea itself is fundamentally boring.

By it's very nature it is a flat surface that looks the same in all directions and has nothing of note for vast distances, and vision in to the water below you is poor. Is go as far to say that the idea of the ocean is quite literally the very antithesis of how they designed the map of BOTW and now TOTK, where it silently uses clever map design to guide the player even if they don't know it.

And the moment you make it densely populated with things, it stops being an ocean, so...

Pawprii said:
Subnautica hyrule is good too!
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Now that might work, but that's nothing like wind waker beyond the most empty of definitions.
 
As long as we keep getting the 2D ones I don’t mind. While ToTK has the immersion and a game length that likely take me months to finish, Sometimes I prefer the immediacy of something like LBW, where I can play for an hour and feel like I made some progress.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
It's because the sea itself is fundamentally boring.

By it's very nature it is a flat surface that looks the same in all directions and has nothing of note for vast distances. Is go as far to say that the idea of the ocean is quite literally the very antithesis of how they designed the map of BOTW and now TOTK, where it silently uses clever map design to guide the player even if they don't know it.

And the moment you make it densely populated with things, it stops being an ocean, so...
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A sea limited by the technical requirements of a 2002 game may be boring (to some), but I disagree in the bigger picture today. ToTK already shows us what multi-tiered map design can look like. The sky and ground are superbly different in their focus and complimentary, just as a continent next to a sea could be as well. Add in underwater segments (swimming sure, but underwater cities in air bubbles, temples, so on too) and all the new mechanics that could follow... See my other post in this thread for what I am imagining. Just like how BoTW was inspired by the original Zelda... I'm talking inspiration not sequel. Which, TBH Wind Waker's influence can already be heavily felt in BoTW/ToTK anyway with regard to an intention of open-ended adventure.

The point of my post that you quoted is that a new Zelda title inspired by WW in 202X looks nothing like WW of 2002, and frankly is likely nothing that any of us can easily imagine. The Zelda team will always surprise us and go places we don't expect, as is evident with ToTK.
 
Sea of Thieves and Assassins Creed: Black Flag prove that sea-based games can be fun and interesting. Imagine building your own pirate ship and fighting off other pirate ships in a Zelda game.
 
Pawprii said:
Create a small map then reuse the minish cap mechanics to turn a small map into a BOTW/TOTK style map

Where the mountains are just giant rocks and the trees are the grass and the enemies are all small insects and bugs.
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BoTW Straight to Ganon Speedrun but this time do it at Minish size
 
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Makes sense that they would stick with this format- there is so much potential in it despite already putting out two absolute bangers in the format so far. The creativity and freedom that their new approach gives the player has taken Zelda to a popularity I never thought we'd ever see from the series.
 
sanstea said:
Zelda in space. It's time.
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Yep.

At the very least, I think a classic Phantasy Star vibe would slot in just fine with Zelda's overall aesthetic. We've already long-since crossed the threshold of sufficiently advanced SCIENCE! being basically magic.

JR436 said:
This is my view. I wouldn't be surprised if this iteration of Link and Zelda got a third game to round out a trilogy - but it would need to be in a new land.

That would also open up things like sea exploration without having to put Hyrule a third world changing event in just over a century. The Calamity and The Upheaval are enough, don't put those poor folks through The Flood as well!
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I'd like this, too.

Not only because I've gotten a bit attached to this Link and Zelda, but also because at this point, another series convention that I'd like to see challenged by this team is the "need" to always jump to another point in the timeline and use a new Link and Zelda to tell a story.

If any version of the duo could be privy to the "...and the adventure continues!" trope for awhile, it's the two versions that have been in the games that redefined the series as it is.
 
Fuck it. Just treat BotW Hyrule like an MMO and keep reusing it but adding more areas while being able to revisit all areas. Looking forward to the next game to feature the entirety of TotKs map plus the entire ocean on the east coast to be fully expanded with a giant Koholint island as the focal point. Then the next game plus all of that but with an alternate dimension you teleport to that's Termina.
 
PixelKnight said:
As long as we keep getting the 2D ones I don’t mind. While ToTK has the immersion and a game length that likely take me months to finish, Sometimes I prefer the immediacy of something like LBW, where I can play for an hour and feel like I made some progress.
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The last 2d one was over 10 years ago. I don't think we're getting many more of those, if at all
 
Is there still room for 2d zelda? It would be a shame to see that style die. Im still waiting for a 2d game that surpasses link between worlds
 
Beanstar40 said:
Is there still room for 2d zelda? It would be a shame to see that style die. Im still waiting for a 2d game that surpasses link between worlds
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I think we'll at minimum still get remakes like Link's Awakening. I don't know if we'll see a wholly new 2D Zelda any time soon. At least from EPD, anyway.
 
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The good elements still outweigh the bad in Sword of the Ocean, bringing another engrossing experience in the venerable series, however, the formula is starting to show its age.
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— Tommy McNabb, Gamespot's review on TLOZ Sword of the Ocean, 2030.
 
I'm all about Nintendo giving Grezzo a shot at making a 2D Zelda. God knows they've got the technical chops and the experience with the series from the past decade. With a little bit of guidance I bet they'd make a real whizz-banger of a LttP/LBW-styled adventure
 
Monster Mash said:
The last 2d one was over 10 years ago. I don't think we're getting many more of those, if at all
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Links Awakening was at the tail end of 2019. I know it’s a remake but I wouldn’t squash all hopes of future 2D Zelda’s quite yet
 
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takriel said:
That art style was thankfully just that - an HD tech demo. Zelda would lose all its magic if it reverted back to this kind of art style - a huge downgrade imo to the more colorful and expressive BotW / TotK template.
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No, because that is still the best any Zelda game has looked.
 
DittoM said:
No, because that is still the best any Zelda game has looked.
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A tech demo is the best-looking Zelda game?

It only looked as good as it did because it was a very small, very contained sequence meant to showcase the Wii U's potential graphic capabilities and nothing else.
 
They sell so much better than any other Zelda’s I doubt Nintendo would even let him make another type of game even if he wanted to.

But really we need a second Zelda team. More than one new game every 6 years isn‘t going to oversaturate the franchise Nintendo.
 
Hailinel said:
A tech demo is the best-looking Zelda game?
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Artistically? Yeah, I think so. I know Twilight Princess has the least popular artstyle in the series but I personally love it and would love to see it in a game not limited by GameCube hardware.
 
I want underwater exploration in the next Zelda but I do not want a big ass ocean you traverse in a boat. I hear "Wind Waker-like" and I go to sleep
 
They don’t have to go full WW for the whole game but a massive sea section of the map with different traversal mechanics and gameplay loop like TOTK’s layers would be fresh
 
An ocean would have to be a complimentary gimmick, not the main one. As long as there are a substantial number of islands (with some themselves being large enough to house multiple towns and big landmarks) then it’d be great.
 
DittoM said:
Artistically? Yeah, I think so. I know Twilight Princess has the least popular artstyle in the series but I personally love it and would love to see it in a game not limited by GameCube hardware.
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I don't think it's the least popular look. It was kind of the go-to look for Zelda for a long time, even in Smash and the generalized Nintendo advertising, like the official Tokyo store. Heck, the manga adaptation is the longest (and arguably best) of all the Zelda mangas.

The bubble that's the online Zelda fandom can make it seem like WW is the best Zelda ever (or was until BOTW/TOTK) and TP is the worst, but it's more likely that it's a vocal minority, judging by sales figures alone. It's also probably the typical osmosis/feedback loop of the gaming press seeing those takes and reinforcing them, like often happens with Smash reps. More likely it's the NES games' art style that doesn't appeal to most modern gamers, or maybe the Link's Awakening remake's artstyle - though both have very charming styles imo.

If anything, I think Wind Waker's art style wore out its welcome. There's at least 7 games that use the Toon Link style, and half of those are a canonical trilogy. It was novel for a time but I'm glad BOTW/TOTK took the cel-shaded look and went for more realistic, proportional designs.

For what it's worth, I like all of the art styles, but I really think Twilight Princess in a cel-shaded style would be absolutely stunning. The concepts of the game and the Twilight Realm could be further explored too. I don't see much need for Wind Waker to get expanded upon anymore than it already has.
 
Just let me play Wind Waker portably and they can keep using this style till the end of time for all I care.
 
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I hope the template is just that it's a very large world with cool physics interactions and not the shrines because I find those pretty tedious and boring to deal with. I'd like something much more organic for finding heart pieces and such than "magically these sectioned off puzzle/combat rooms appeared."
 
totofogo said:
A sea limited by the technical requirements of a 2002 game may be boring (to some), but I disagree in the bigger picture today. ToTK already shows us what multi-tiered map design can look like. The sky and ground are superbly different in their focus and complimentary, just as a continent next to a sea could be as well. Add in underwater segments (swimming sure, but underwater cities in air bubbles, temples, so on too) and all the new mechanics that could follow... See my other post in this thread for what I am imagining. Just like how BoTW was inspired by the original Zelda... I'm talking inspiration not sequel. Which, TBH Wind Waker's influence can already be heavily felt in BoTW/ToTK anyway with regard to an intention of open-ended adventure.

The point of my post that you quoted is that a new Zelda title inspired by WW in 202X looks nothing like WW of 2002, and frankly is likely nothing that any of us can easily imagine. The Zelda team will always surprise us and go places we don't expect, as is evident with ToTK.
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You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about videogames or what is caused by the limits of 2 decade old hardware. The ocean, as in, what an ocean actually is, is by it's very nature a boring largely flat surface with minimal detail, limited ability to vary features, and looks the same in every direction. In a lot of ways, it's the complete antithesis of what they've worked so hard to build with BOTW

No amount of technological advances can change that.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about videogames or what is caused by the limits of 2 decade old hardware. The ocean, as in, what an ocean actually is, is by it's very nature a boring largely flat surface with minimal detail, limited ability to vary features, and looks the same in every direction. In a lot of ways, it's the complete antithesis of what they've worked so hard to build with BOTW

No amount of technological advances can change that.
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I don't agree with this, especially when you factor in that Zelda is a fantasy franchise.

There is plenty you can do with fluid dynamics and weather phenomena in the sea to make sailing or underwater exploration interesting, and it would be neither definitionally flat nor necessarily boring. Nintendo could also create interesting structures both on the surface of the water and below it.

Air is not an inherently more interesting medium than water, it just so happens to be the more convenient medium in which humans can survive. In a fantasy video game, there are limitless ways in which you could harness the latest advancements in hardware and software, combined what the ingenuity of some of the most creative game developers in the world, to create an appealing theme around water, both on and below the surface.

I'm not necessarily saying that the next Zelda should be open-water themed, but I don't think it would be the antithesis of the open-air concept, and if physics is going to play a large role, there will need to be technical solutions for making it work as well as aerodynamics work in TOTK.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about videogames or what is caused by the limits of 2 decade old hardware. The ocean, as in, what an ocean actually is, is by it's very nature a boring largely flat surface with minimal detail, limited ability to vary features, and looks the same in every direction. In a lot of ways, it's the complete antithesis of what they've worked so hard to build with BOTW

No amount of technological advances can change that.
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There are ways to keep the ocean part of it interesting. Fishing, enemy encounters, weather phenomena. Nobody complains about the sea in Sea of Thieves or Assassins Creed: Black Flag because it's interesting to traverse. I'm betting the Zelda devs could think of something.
 
Magic-Man said:
There are ways to keep the ocean part of it interesting. Fishing, enemy encounters, weather phenomena. Nobody complains about the sea in Sea of Thieves or Assassins Creed: Black Flag because it's interesting to traverse. I'm betting the Zelda devs could think of something.
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The terrible sea in black flag is what caused me to drop the assassins creed series entirely, so it's not true that nobody complains about that.

Every single positive anyone brings up about an ocean sailing game boils down to "just think how many things you could find out there!" When those things are practically all about getting off the ocean because it sucks. Just skip the middle man and don't make an ocean game. Have small lakes and whatever, sure, but ocean is fundamentally boring, by the very nature of an ocean.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
The terrible sea in black flag is what caused me to drop the assassins creed series entirely, so it's not true that nobody complains about that.
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Well, that's just your opinion. Black Flag is probably the biggest fan favorite in the entire series from what I can gather, and it was so popular that Ubisoft tried to clone it (emphasis on tried).
 
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Soul Skater said:
They sell so much better than any other Zelda’s I doubt Nintendo would even let him make another type of game even if he wanted to.

But really we need a second Zelda team. More than one new game every 6 years isn‘t going to oversaturate the franchise Nintendo.
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I’m amazed Nintendo did not buy Grezzo yet and made them the 2D Zelda team.
 
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I'm hoping for an ocean exploration Zelda. Multiple continents, vast islands, and civilizations to explore freely. Underwater exploration with Sheikah tech, even going into the deep sea of Hyrule, the abyss,

968840-digital-art-artwork-landscape-fantasy-art-sea-island.jpg
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dejlf8l-7847c726-b318-4a8b-8d90-6771cbe3a8c7.jpg
 
Even if you chucked a ton of stuff into the ocean, it's still not going to have the topographic variety of land. The destinations and landmarks aren't the only important part of BotW's world design. The landscape is very carefully crafted to obscure and reveal details in a calculated ebb and flow, to draw players' attention/curiosity and avoid overwhelming them. The ocean on the other hand is flat. Unless we straight up venture into One Piece territory with rollercoaster currents and water mountains and shit, which I would be all for
 
Lord Azrael said:
Even if you chucked a ton of stuff into the ocean, it's still not going to have the topographic variety of land. The destinations and landmarks aren't the only important part of BotW's world design. The landscape is very carefully crafted to obscure and reveal details in a calculated ebb and flow, to draw players' attention/curiosity and avoid overwhelming them. The ocean on the other hand is flat. Unless we straight up venture into One Piece territory with rollercoaster currents and water mountains and shit, which I would be all for
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The surface of water can be relatively flat, but with proper physics that is not normally the case with large bodies of water, winds, and waves. Navigating the seas and ocean via sailing could provide a unique challenge that wouldn't necessarily be boring, just different in terms of gameplay focus. And that's only the surface. Underwater exploration would allow for all the signposting and variety that you see on land, as this is a fantasy franchise after all. Perhaps they could do something like Endless Ocean on the Wii, but with more fantastical structures that involve navigational puzzles and environmental storytelling. Maybe make the atmosphere similar to the Subnautica games. There's a lot they could do with the concept.
 
LukasManak22 said:
People were hating Wind Waker and now they want ocean exploration Zelda. The cycle is real.
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tbh the actual traversal mechanics on the Wind Waker ocean were pretty boring. People might just be remembering the vibes/atmosphere/sense of adventure and forgetting the nitty gritty. Though people are mostly just asking for superficial setting similarities but completely different mechanics and exploration, which I'd be fine with
 
I don't know why people keep insisting that oceans and underwater exploration is fun. By design, you are more limited in your freedom of movement in the water than on land or in the air. It's just not a good main hook, imo.
 
Zeal543 said:
That's fine, hopefully they don't have to poach talent from Monolith this time around
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Imagine the shock and horror of monolith employees when they were called Up by Nintendo to work on the most critically acclaimed franchise of all time. My heart shrinks every time I think about It.
 
TreIII said:
Yep.

At the very least, I think a classic Phantasy Star vibe would slot in just fine with Zelda's overall aesthetic. We've already long-since crossed the threshold of sufficiently advanced SCIENCE! being basically magic.


I'd like this, too.

Not only because I've gotten a bit attached to this Link and Zelda, but also because at this point, another series convention that I'd like to see challenged by this team is the "need" to always jump to another point in the timeline and use a new Link and Zelda to tell a story.

If any version of the duo could be privy to the "...and the adventure continues!" trope for awhile, it's the two versions that have been in the games that redefined the series as it is.
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C64eiHVWYAEuUyB


It's time!
 
Zedlars said:
I'm hoping for an ocean exploration Zelda. Multiple continents, vast islands, and civilizations to explore freely. Underwater exploration with Sheikah tech, even going into the deep sea of Hyrule, the abyss,

968840-digital-art-artwork-landscape-fantasy-art-sea-island.jpg
bb6753ee76c48190e7a4c93be54941d9.jpg

dejlf8l-7847c726-b318-4a8b-8d90-6771cbe3a8c7.jpg
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Yo this would be sick. I have a lot of faith that the Aonuma and friends could pull this off. Also seems the logical direction to go after a game exploring the surface land, and then a game that explores the surface, the underground, and the sky.


It's not like it would be just plain water in every direction. I'm sure we'd have lots of island and other diversions.

Also a big heavily customizable ship, one where you can even have traveling companions would be cool.
 
Sad but expected. I am really quite enjoying tears after hating BOTW but it’s still no substitute for a traditional Zelda game.

We never even got a new traditional Zelda in HD.
 
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