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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Mer.Saloon
Tingle
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And MVG lists his points as to why he thinks it won't work. Just being skeptical isn't trolling. Otherwise everyone who disagree with you is a troll. Even if I disagree with him, I don't think he's trolling.
Guess what, he'll be fine if he's wrong. He's not going to miss you getting annoyed at him like some mustache twirling villain.
I think Nintendo values their own IP enough that BC is important. Nintendo games are some of the most sought after on the after-markets. Their stuff will always have some value being played years later, hence why I think they'll invest the time and money into it. And they have plenty money to spare now.
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"Introducing the Nintendo Switch Triple - Now with 3 analog sticks. Feel like One Piece's Zoro and control the third stick with your tongue!"
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Forgive my language.
This is bloody asinine!
Nvidia already HAS a Switch emulator.
MVG HAS ACCESS TO IT. IT'S PART OF THE SDK HE HAS USED, BY THE BY.
The CPU is already instruction for instruction compatible, the GPU is a non issue given they ALREADY MADE THE SOFTWARE TO DO THAT.
Now that I've got that out of my system, he makes a claim that X1+ wafers are going out of production, does anyone know anything more on that, or is he still under the false impression of X1 production ceasing because the X1 (non-plus) ceased?
This is bloody asinine!
Nvidia already HAS a Switch emulator.
MVG HAS ACCESS TO IT. IT'S PART OF THE SDK HE HAS USED, BY THE BY.
The CPU is already instruction for instruction compatible, the GPU is a non issue given they ALREADY MADE THE SOFTWARE TO DO THAT.
Now that I've got that out of my system, he makes a claim that X1+ wafers are going out of production, does anyone know anything more on that, or is he still under the false impression of X1 production ceasing because the X1 (non-plus) ceased?
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Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
Grey has been effectively discontinued already because the packaging redesign in August 2022 only came in Neon until this Mario bundle.
Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
Once the next system is revealed to be digital only, everything will make more sense.
Goodtwin
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100%. I think he is just trying to play devils advocate, but all of his reasoning could easily look very flawed if he were to be asked follow up questions by people who have even a laymen's understanding of the technology. CPU compatibility is there, the A78 CPU cores support the ARMv8 instruction set the A57 cores, so there would be no need for emulating the game logic, only the graphics rendering would require a layer of emulation. Knowing that, its quite frankly rather insulting to Nvidia to insinuate that they wouldn't be able to provide a software solution to this. On top of that, there are plenty of games on the eshop that are most certainly running on either the Vulcan or OpenGL API, so these games are not hitting the lower hardware like games that use NVN do.
MVG having the Switch emulator as part of the SDK for his PC is a great point and may be worth questioning him about in an upcoming NateTheHate podcast.
"because nintendo"
Mer.Saloon
Tingle
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Nintendo would have to have an absolutely incredible INCREDIBLE launch year lineup to make people get over that initial sting. To make people just drop their Switches which would include the millions of people who own evergreens Mario Kart, Mario Party, Ring Fit, etc. and just stop using them. That is the asinine part.
It seems like general cynicism. He mentions they can find solutions with the investment, but it's the fact that he doesn't think they want to.
Like yeah, BC isn't a big deal to many companies, but many companies don't have the back catalogue clout of Nintendo. Heck, MS have less of that but look at them and what they committed to.
Even in the height of the Wii U's life, I remember NoA's twitter celebrating the sales of MKWii and NSMBWii. Evergreens are a big deal to the Ninty ecosystem and keeping things alive.
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The BC thing is so weird and it's been that way for a long time. I feel like I remember there being rumor a long time ago, like 2020 or even 2019, that the switch's architecture made is harder for a future console to be backwards compatible with it. Honestly, it may have been MVG on Nate's podcast cause I don't really consume a lot of podcast stuff and that's how I think I remember hearing bout it.
Now in all honesty I could be pulling this out of my ass but whenever BC gets mentioned I kinda go back to that.
Now in all honesty I could be pulling this out of my ass but whenever BC gets mentioned I kinda go back to that.
Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
MVG does make a strange claim about Nintendo's past systems talking about adding a chip of the previous system in the motherboard, afaik they have never done that in released hardware, it's always been custom built into the new processor(s)
For example Game Boy Advance's CPU AGB contains both the ARM processor and the old Sharp Z80 based processor all in the same package.
For example Game Boy Advance's CPU AGB contains both the ARM processor and the old Sharp Z80 based processor all in the same package.
D36
#ITSXENOVER
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Yeah, fair enough. I just don't know why he's so certain.
I'm banking on a 2D or 3D Mario as the big launch title, along with some notable third-party games. My heart wants FF7 Remake, Eldin Ring, Street Fighter 6, and Jedi Fallen Order, but my brain isn't so sure.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I believe GBA did that for GameBoy compatibility since those were entirely different architectures.
Goodtwin
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I suppose MVG is looking to spark conversation on the subject more so rather than trolling. Perhaps he just wants people to understand that because of the hardware changes, backwards compatibility is not baked into the silicon and would require a work around. I suppose until Nintendo actually confirms they are including this support, its fair for some people to question if it will be there. However, when you look at how concerned Nintendo is with transitioning their Switch userbase to the next hardware, are we really to believe Nintendo see's BC as a non issue? It is far easier for me to believe that many Switch gamers would highly dissatisfied with the notion that there software library would not carry over to their new Switch hardware. This feels like something that would give people a reason to avoid upgrading their Switch and its hard to see Nintendo leaving that hurdle in place when there are solutions to get around it.
Trevelyan
Octorok
Price and Name? I was on vacation last weekend - what happened? What’s the name and price and where are we getting this info from?
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Unfortunately there are too many folks who are predisposed to believe that Nintendo will not only not implement BC in the next Switch, but that they have never done it at all (or that their handheld consoles don't 'count'), and will instead sell $70 'Switch Deluxe' remasters.
This topic has been frustrating to discuss. There's been a lot of weak reasoning and revisionist history about Nintendo making flippant decisions, and conflation between VC and hardware based BC. I also think there's too much projection of individual 'concern' onto the inner workings of two large companies who have been working on this for at least 4 years based on the leak.
This is why my initial response is that of annoyance. There's already more than a few comments here and there (mostly... there) claiming "MVG / so-and-so dev claim BC on next Switch isn't happening", because MVG isn't some random YouTuber, he's recognized as someone with a lot of technical knowledge, so his skepticism is inherently given more weight even if the reasoning is disagreeable. But Nintendo implementing BC can't be solely analyzed through a technical lens, imo they have a solid business justification for including it.
This topic has been frustrating to discuss. There's been a lot of weak reasoning and revisionist history about Nintendo making flippant decisions, and conflation between VC and hardware based BC. I also think there's too much projection of individual 'concern' onto the inner workings of two large companies who have been working on this for at least 4 years based on the leak.
This is why my initial response is that of annoyance. There's already more than a few comments here and there (mostly... there) claiming "MVG / so-and-so dev claim BC on next Switch isn't happening", because MVG isn't some random YouTuber, he's recognized as someone with a lot of technical knowledge, so his skepticism is inherently given more weight even if the reasoning is disagreeable. But Nintendo implementing BC can't be solely analyzed through a technical lens, imo they have a solid business justification for including it.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
I definitely don’t care what he thinks.
D
Deleted member 2551
Guest
That is quite the overreaction but alright.
D
Deleted member 2551
Guest
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It is not really what I meant but ok.
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I can't think of a better way for Nintendo to shoot themselves in the foot with the next system.
I heard what he said in the spawn cast, and I personally think he's just misleading as much as he can, probably because he knows something and don't want to be caught by the ninjas or he doesn't know anything, but still needs to say something to keep conversation going... In short, we won't get anything out of him, because his job is at stake here.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I feel like I would simply not say anything rather than intentionally shoot my credibility in the foot, but hey
Youtubers life I think, better get those views about something wrong and engage in the conversation, than remain silent and get nothing... That's my guess
Klax0nKlax0ff
Piranha Plant
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What is it he would know to sow seeds of doubt in BC? That BC is indeed not coming but he has to make up reasons why that would be the case?
Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
They have done it with every successor handheld, they all contained the cpu of the previous system in the SoC, on the visuals side, they always have the necessary ppu/gpu hardware in the SoC too, although that is designed to share the same hardware as the newer system when possible.
Mer.Saloon
Tingle
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Exactly. Think about it. For the Wii U they essentially made it possible for you to bring Wii and GC games (though they purposefully snuffed that feature) and you could upgrade certain Wii games to make them compatible with your Wii U menu. Nintendo placed a huge emphasis on BC for the Wii U just because they knew they couldn't just drop the Wii like that. And for as clumsy as their BC was, it was still a very big effort on their part.
They only dropped it because the Switch was such an utter clean slate, and Nintendo did everything in their power those first 2 years to make sure it was worth giving up the Wii U. Nintendo wouldn't drop BC unless they intend to give a very good incentive for someone to move on.
Nintendo takes their back catalogue very seriously, even if they can be asinine with it sometimes. They do know the worth of them.
Don't panic my friend, he doesn't has to justify anything, he's not a Nintendo pr or anything, let's just wait for something official, meanwhile speculation is just for fun in any case.
Mer.Saloon
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This is just calling him a troll by another name.
Just let the guy be wrong without giving him a ulterior motive.
Well this is a hardware speculation thread and apparently it's fine to overreact like this lmao.
Truno
Koopa
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Nintendo could absolutely get away with it if they wanted to
Mer.Saloon
Tingle
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They could for the Wii U because no one owned the damn thing.
They still kept the 3DS alive for as long as possible because they had no solution for dropping that. Hence weird late ports.
After the Switch? How on earth would Nintendo justify buying Mario Kart 8 for a 2nd or even 3rd time?
D36
#ITSXENOVER
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We're dismissing him because his points can be disputed with evidence presented in this thread, as well as statements made by Nintendo. That being said, I do want to move on to another topic already.
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
Can you just disagree without acting like he was some random guy?
He has some interesting points even if he doesnt end being right.
He has some interesting points even if he doesnt end being right.
Truno
Koopa
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Bundle all of the new tracks, put in some new characters, graphical enhancements, $70. Maybe some new modes? It'd be pretty simple
Candescence
Inky Futurist
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Funny that the last few pages have a discussion regarding internal storage and SSDs, because that's the thing I'm most curious about when it comes to future hardware - what is Nintendo's answer to "DirectStorage" (or whatever the console-specific naming for it is)? Because it is going to be a big deal for making the next system viable for developing games on, the fast storage speed and IO setup is a big deal.
Nvidia probably have the IO aspect sorted considering their own custom DirectStorage integration with Nvidia GPUs, so the big questions are gonna be the game carts and the interface they slot into, internal storage, and the external storage. Game carts are a more open question, but they'll probably be more custom while still keeping compatibility with the original Switch carts, so if Nintendo plays their cards right they might actually be able to have physical media that would potentially be able to run games directly off the cart, unlike discs, though a hybrid solution where data is downloaded to a temporary storage for fast loading isn't out of the question either, which would still be a lot better than having to wait to download entire games off a disc.
As for internal and external storage... I wouldn't be surprised if they use UFS internal storage and/or UFS cards, considering UFS is explicitly designed to be a step below proper SSD drives while being more suitable for mobile devices. UFS cards are increasingly competitive with SD cards in terms of price at this point. Assuming that it's cost-effective enough, internal UFS would potentially be a decent compromise between eMMC and an SSD.
Still, eMMC and SD cards are still on the table - the Steam Deck proved they're still reasonably viable for now, but with the high-speed IO being a big selling point for the newest consoles, I think Nintendo would be especially foolish to not take note of that and have their own solution to keep pace with that.
Nvidia probably have the IO aspect sorted considering their own custom DirectStorage integration with Nvidia GPUs, so the big questions are gonna be the game carts and the interface they slot into, internal storage, and the external storage. Game carts are a more open question, but they'll probably be more custom while still keeping compatibility with the original Switch carts, so if Nintendo plays their cards right they might actually be able to have physical media that would potentially be able to run games directly off the cart, unlike discs, though a hybrid solution where data is downloaded to a temporary storage for fast loading isn't out of the question either, which would still be a lot better than having to wait to download entire games off a disc.
As for internal and external storage... I wouldn't be surprised if they use UFS internal storage and/or UFS cards, considering UFS is explicitly designed to be a step below proper SSD drives while being more suitable for mobile devices. UFS cards are increasingly competitive with SD cards in terms of price at this point. Assuming that it's cost-effective enough, internal UFS would potentially be a decent compromise between eMMC and an SSD.
Still, eMMC and SD cards are still on the table - the Steam Deck proved they're still reasonably viable for now, but with the high-speed IO being a big selling point for the newest consoles, I think Nintendo would be especially foolish to not take note of that and have their own solution to keep pace with that.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
To be fair it’s the main and often only point he brings up with regard to NS2. Same with John from Spawnwave saying that Nintendo is a “weird and wacky” company so you can never predict their next move in every video/podcast on the topic.
Like it was intriguing/funny the first time…not so much the nth time. If they added new reasoning beyond “Nintendo probably won’t do it because they don’t care about power” or “they always have some crazy wacky gimmick”, then it would be an interesting conversation to have.
I mean John is the guy that held up a chip to my face, sitting in his couch and explained why ARM was better long term for Nintendo over x86. It just feels like they, along with almost the entire media and journalist side aren’t taking the next system seriously.
“What if they do an OLED lite?” “What if they do some wacky, weird VR console?”
“What if they go back to split systems?” At a certain point out stops feeling like devil’s advocate and more like some people have mentioned: trolling (to a small extent).
Link_enfant
Fashion Dreamer
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Anything can happen you know, because Nintendo.
I know you hate this, that was 100% to trigger you <3
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Candescence
Inky Futurist
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Wild card prediction - Nintendo partners with Valve and the new joy-cons and pro controller are based off the Steam Deck's control setup.
It would never happen but I can dream, dangit.
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