You don't really want the growth rates from the promoted classes, what you want is the promotion bonuses. As an example promoting Alear to Divine Dragon only gives +5% growth to defense, res, and luck which isn't anything to write home about. The more useful promotion bonus is the +1 mov, access to fist weapons, +3 bld, and +1 or +2 to every other stat. It could take 5-10 levels to get a similar type of power boost, assuming you don't get horribly rng screwed. Of course the real prize is the boost in movement and access to a new weapon type. Movement is the best stat in FE and having more of it is always a good thing. Additionally with how powerful the break status is, getting more options for breaking foes is a huge boost.I’ve only really ever played Three Houses, how is this different from that game? Why would you wait until level 20 to class change? Don’t you want to change jobs ASAP so you have better stat growths?
Right, and all that makes sense, but then what’s the downside to classing up immediately? I’m a bit confused. It’s not like you lose levels somehow. Wouldn't it be better to have the benefits of better movement + stats right away at level 10 while you level up to 20+ rather than waiting until 20? That's 10 levels you're not getting any benefit? I feel like I'm missing something hereYou don't really want the growth rates from the promoted classes, what you want is the promotion bonuses. As an example promoting Alear to Divine Dragon only gives +5% growth to defense, res, and luck which isn't anything to write home about. The more useful promotion bonus is the +1 mov, access to fist weapons, +3 bld, and +1 or +2 to every other stat. It could take 5-10 levels to get a similar type of power boost, assuming you don't get horribly rng screwed. Of course the real prize is the boost in movement and access to a new weapon type. Movement is the best stat in FE and having more of it is always a good thing. Additionally with how powerful the break status is, getting more options for breaking foes is a huge boost.
When you promote, your level resets to 1, but the level cap stays at 20. If you wait til 20 to promote, you get all of those level ups, and then get reset to 1, where you get to hit 20 again for a total of 40 potential level ups. If you promote sooner, you miss out on the level-ups between 11 and 20, depending on how early you did it.Right, and all that makes sense, but then what’s the downside to classing up immediately? I’m a bit confused. It’s not like you lose levels somehow. Wouldn't it be better to have the benefits of better movement + stats right away at level 10 while you level up to 20+ rather than waiting until 20? That's 10 levels you're not getting any benefit? I feel like I'm missing something here
... OH. That's the critical information I was missing, I had no idea your level reset. I thought it was like Three Houses, where your level just goes up and up into the 40s. That's a really interesting way of doing that! Now this all makes more sense. So there's a tradeoff between getting maximum value for your levels versus wanting the benefits of changing class sooner.When you promote, your level resets to 1, but the level cap stays at 20. If you wait til 20 to promote, you get all of those level ups, and then get reset to 1, where you get to hit 20 again for a total of 40 potential level ups. If you promote sooner, you miss out on the level-ups between 11 and 20, depending on how early you did it.
However, like BassForever said, there's more to promoting than just resetting your level which is why you may not always want to wait until level 20 to promote.
Historically, promoted units gain less exp unless they're killing other promoted units. Since promotion bonuses are static, if you don't need the boost right away you can take advantage being unpromoted to kill other unpromoted enemies to level faster. Additionally if the character in question already has good growths in a key stat you want to get to high values, those extra levels can go a long way.Right, and all that makes sense, but then what’s the downside to classing up immediately? I’m a bit confused. It’s not like you lose levels somehow. Wouldn't it be better to have the benefits of better movement + stats right away at level 10 while you level up to 20+ rather than waiting until 20? That's 10 levels you're not getting any benefit? I feel like I'm missing something here
Hah, that's what I figured. Three Houses was definitely different in that regard.... OH. That's the critical information I was missing, I had no idea your level reset. I thought it was like Three Houses, where your level just goes up and up into the 40s. That's a really interesting way of doing that! Now this all makes more sense. So there's a tradeoff between getting maximum value for your levels versus wanting the benefits of changing class sooner.
This is going to really mess with my "try to keep a party who's all the same level" tendancies
With who?Lol Goldmary goes hard in her C support.
Alear, she caught me off guard lol.With who?
Great write-up! This makes a ton of sense now that I know how the level resetting works, lol. I've played a couple older Fire Emblem games but not long enough to really get to classing up, so I'm showing my ignorance here.Historically, promoted units gain less exp unless they're killing other promoted units. Since promotion bonuses are static, if you don't need the boost right away you can take advantage being unpromoted to kill other unpromoted enemies to level faster. Additionally if the character in question already has good growths in a key stat you want to get to high values, those extra levels can go a long way.
Here's a few hypothetical situation
Scenario A: You promote a unit at the start of a battle that's level 10. They get the big stat boost (+2 all), they get a bunch of kills but only get 1 level where they get +1 str, +1 spd, +1 def. So your net here is +3 str/spd/def, +2 everything else.
Scenario B: You keep the unit unpromoted for the same battle, they get a bunch of kills and get 3 levels. The net of those levels is +3 str, +2 spd, +2 dex, +3 def, +2 luck. You then promote after the battle is over, your net stat gains are +5 str/def, +4 spd/dex/luck, +2 everything else.
Scenario C: Same as scenario B, however you get rng screwed, and your net levels are +1 str, +1 def, +1 spd, +1 luck and then you promote, you net +3 str/def/spd/luck and +2 everything else
In scenarios B and C the mission was more challenging because you didn't have the promoted unit with extra move, weapon types, and the big +2 all stat buff to start. Scenario A the mission was a lot easier, but your unit doesn't end up as beastly as it would have in Scenario B. Of course if you get the unlucky scenario C, you made the battle harder for a single extra point of luck which really wasn't worth it.
That's why it's hard to give advice on when to promote in FE. There's valid reasons to wait on promotions and valid reasons to promote right away. All of the above doesn't even take into consideration learning skills which starting in Awakening further complicated the "when to promote" discussion.
Edit: I didn't even process that your only experience was 3H where levels don't reset. 3H is a very different beast compared to all other FE games lol.
Oh yeah I'm fully with you here. Negative growth rates are mindboggling but prove that these games are definitely doable without grindingAs an added fun fact in the discussion about bases, growths, and promotions. The real FE try/die hards have not only beaten almost every FE game with hacked versions of the game where everyone has 0% growths, they've beaten them where your growth rates are negative, and you lose stats when you level.
I'm not about that life, but watching those kinds of runs really helped me to break out of my "old school" FE bad habits ie don't use Jagens, wait till level 20 to promote, give boots to your slowest unit, a character is only as good as they are in endgame, etc
Most FE games only have 2 tiers, base and advanced/promotion, Engage also uses the 2 tier system. Engage uses the same "prestige" system from Awakening and Fates where you can use a second seal to reset your level and change to another class. This lets you learn the new classes skills while keeping your old stat increases and skills. I don't see it being as useful in Engage since you have such a limited pool of skill slots (that are also shared with emblem ring skills) unless that gets expanded later on that I don't know about.Great write-up! This makes a ton of sense now that I know how the level resetting works, lol. I've played a couple older Fire Emblem games but not long enough to really get to classing up, so I'm showing my ignorance here.
So how many promotion ranks are there? Three Houses had, IIRC, Base -> Beginner -> Intermediate -> Advanced -> Master. But if you could get 20 levels per, then max level would theoretically be 100 (relatively speaking). I'm assuming that in Engage the 'Base' class at least really isn't a thing
On normal/hard they're unlimited and spawn based upon the real world clock. Very easy to exploit.Can I do an unlimited amount of skirmishes late in the game? So far, I avoided them (I'm at Chapter 12), but I'm worrying I'm losing exp.
How’s everyone enjoying the game then? I have high hopes for when I get round to playing it myself.
Combat is fantastic, it's super fun and the maps are tightly designed. This is some good-ass Fire EmblemHow’s everyone enjoying the game then? I have high hopes for when I get round to playing it myself.
even if i'm a bit disappointed with being locked to fixed growth, this maddening run is the most fun i had since conquest lunatic ~8 years ago.... damn fates was that old huhHow’s everyone enjoying the game then? I have high hopes for when I get round to playing it myself.
I'm having so much fun. Even if the writing isn't there, I'm even enjoying that. They really just nailed this. I have some issues with it, but I'm loving the ride.How’s everyone enjoying the game then? I have high hopes for when I get round to playing it myself.
It's a pretty common map type in the series.Does Chapter 8 have a Three Houses reference?Defending the Monastery from Edelgard's invasion map?
yeah the writing is so bad that I'm just zooming through the convos really. 3H was very different. The writing was interesting as were the characters. So far only Alear is interesting as he seems to be the only somewhat 3 dimensional character. The writing feels like if you gathered a group of 18-21 years olds with little writing experience to write a low budget anime in 2 weeks lol. I'd really like to know how many if any 3H writers touched this game. The VA work is pretty subpar outside of Alear. Even someone as renown as Justin Briner sounds amateurish but that's because of what he has to work with.I'm only at Chapter 4, so this might change, but so far I'm getting the impression I was a Three Houses fan, not a Fire Emblem fan. It's likely because so far I'm finding the story and writing really bad and the characters fairly uninteresting. The combat is fun (I would say it's different from 3H, not necessarily better or worse), so hopefully it's enough to retain my interest
The graphics and performance really are a substantial upgrade though. If you showed me both games and told me they were on different hardware generations I would have believed you
The respawing fliers made me think of it specifically. Could be just similar, though.It's a pretty common map type in the series.
Some classic Secret Shop nonsense, was the item worth it?If you do the Tiki DLC quest make sure you get the Golden Item in the middle of the map via Rewarp or Warp. I had to go back in my save to get the item -__-
Some classic Secret Shop nonsense, was the item worth it?
Ah, I missed it, but I know you can redo the map, I'll have to see if it's still there.To me, yes as it would bother me that I would not have access to something listed in the DLC that I paid for but couldn't access.
《Silver Card》
While you possess this item, in-game purchases in the Armory and Item Shop will be discounted by 30%.
Note: You can find this item in the newly added Divine Paralogue map.
Ah, I missed it, but I know you can redo the map, I'll have to see if it's still there.
It's only there the first time, after that I believe you can only obtain it through Skirmish battles.Ah, I missed it, but I know you can redo the map, I'll have to see if it's still there.
You must be incredibly good because you're the first person I heard that said hard is easy. Also I disagree on the balancing.Played up till around chapter 7 on lunatic and not really enjoying it, turns the game into a slog because they were dumb enough to fixed growths in. Meanwhile hard is far far too easy. Game is more fun than 3H but I've kind of had my fill, Conquest this is certainly not. I really wish jp devs knew how to balance strategy games.
Once you realize how busted certain units are it honestly gets pretty easy, I guess the most balanced way of playing would be hard with no grinding but even then I've never really been into the comical gap between hard and lunatic in Awakening onwards FE games. This one is more balanced than that at least.You must be incredibly good because you're the first person I heard that said hard is easy. Also I disagree on the balancing.
There’s a lot! I’m on Chapter 8 and I think I have five cats? I love the animal adopting.Only completed up to Chapter 6 so far, but I'm loving it! I've found two cute cats so far. I wonder how many more there are?
There’s a lot! I’m on Chapter 8 and I think I have five cats? I love the animal adopting.
The reward is worth it too, completely insane emblem.The Tiki DLC battle was really tough on hard, beat it by the skin of my teeth and several resets and readjusts. And then the Chapter 7 map was a complete joke by comparison.
Sigurd’s dash attack is SO satisfying when it lines up right. I had Alfred dash through five enemy units, OHKO three of them (two were mounted) and do half the health of the boss and another flier.
3H and Engage have very different developers behind them on account of being developed by different teams.I'd really like to know how many if any 3H writers touched this game.