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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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kimbo99 said:
I think it will be for at least one gen. Switch 3 will probably cut off Switch 1 games/cartridges. Nintendo is usually good at keeping software from at least one previous gen when they start a new concept (except the Wii U to switch and n64 to GCN, both previous consoles didn't sell very well).
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Persistent libraries are a big thing for modern gaming these days, unless something drastically changes I don’t think we should assume Switch 3 would drop support, but that’s so far away and there’s so many variables that I don’t even think it’s worth speculating about at all.
Kazuyamishima said:
I have little hope for Nintendos emulation in the future considering how bad their N64 release went
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Nintendo’s emulation is usually pretty good, one sub par emulator (which has been fixed) doesn’t erase that. Not that I think they’d even need to resort to emulation.
 
chocolate_supra said:
I mean, that's maybe one issue he talked about, but the biggie that he talked about at length last year is the fact that Drake's GPU uses a different architecture than the current Switch. And since Switch games are precompiled to run on the current Switch's specific architecture, every game would have to be recompiled for the new architecture (by the companies who made them, some of whom don't even exist anymore) or else popping an old Switch game onto new Switch just won't work.

Granted this thread has talked at length about possible solutions to that problem, and Nvidia and Nintendo are likely working on solutions so I'm not worried. Just saying that's the sort of obstacle MVG has talked about.
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I mean, it's a custom soc, created for the purpose of being in Nintendos game console. Could the solution be a mix of hardware and software (which is common in console BC)? Yes. Could Nvidia have added modifications to Drakes Ampere version, specifically for Maxwell BC? Also yes.
 
In my opinion the absence of the BC (which I think there will be) would not be a drama.
Switch is very small, you put it in a drawer and when you want to play you take it out.
Is more important that the new hardware is not limited to force the presence of the BC (as happened to the Wii U).
 
Eclissi said:
In my opinion the absence of the BC (which I think there will be) would not be a drama.
Switch is very small, you put it in a drawer and when you want to play you take it out.
Is more important that the new hardware is not limited to force the presence of the BC (as happened to the Wii U).
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I don't think that will be the case with new hardware. The Wii U was moreso limited by the gamepad than the ability to access Wii games. You could argue the same for the 3DS.
 
Eclissi said:
In my opinion the absence of the BC (which I think there will be) would not be a drama.
Switch is very small, you put it in a drawer and when you want to play you take it out.
Is more important that the new hardware is not limited to force the presence of the BC (as happened to the Wii U).
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If Nintendo doesn’t adopt the iOS/Android model, i.e. software is in principle working on all models. Otherwise I will not buy digital from them. My Switch library is mainly digital because of the impression I got from their account system presentation that this will be continued to be used even for the “next” platform and listening to Iwata’s ideas going forward back then.

The Wii U concept is not comparable with its IBM processor compared to ARM.
 
not having backwards compatibility in today’s market would be a heinous omission. great way to convince your audience that digital is never the right choice

edit: also MVG has admitted he mostly trolls / shit posts on Twitter, so he’s got that in him. unless he’s committing to anything for certain here, he’s probably just taking a possible but mostly controversial or pessimistic take
 
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karmitt said:
not having backwards compatibility in today’s market would be a heinous omission. great way to convince your audience that digital is never the right choice

edit: also MVG has admitted he mostly trolls / shit posts on Twitter, so he’s got that in him. unless he’s committing to anything for certain here, he’s probably just taking a possible but mostly controversial or pessimistic take
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Well, honestly he has a good point and it's debatable, whether you agree or not.

They can decide no to BC and focus on eShop and ports, or patches for X$ (although they can also do this while being BC).
 
LiC said:
mvg.jpg
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A trillion times, THIS.
 
D36 said:
I don't think that will be the case with new hardware. The Wii U was moreso limited by the gamepad than the ability to access Wii games. You could argue the same for the 3DS.
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Wii U BC was a specific case, that will not be repeated again.

That being that in order to acheive BC, they had to build on the dead PPC 750 architecture that was used for gamecube and Wii. Its actually pretty impressive that they built the only multicore cpu in existence (as far as I know) on that architecture. Hovever they ended up with a more expensive and less powerful chip than if they had just gone with some off the shelf AMD hardware using modern hardware. So in that way. it was limited by BC.

The Nvidia partnership guarantees the Wii U situation will not repeat. Unless Arm dies and the whole industry moves to Risc-V or something.
 
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Kise Ryota said:
Well, I can deal with it most of the time, but the gyro drift drives me nuts in the end. It really stresses me out. But for me it's more complex than just the gyroscope being the only culprit here. When I use the pro controller on my PC through Steam it works much better than on the Switch. For me it feels like as if Nintendo is applying a drift correction algorithm on an OS level (because every game I've tried has it in a very severe way), which to me is more of a hindrance than a help. Of course, on steam it'll also eventually drift but there's no such correction for really small or slow movements like on the switch (I first noticed it playing splatoon on the wii u actually...)

Anyway, I wouldn't like the wii tech again (very low FoV). I would prefer an USB camera (or a camera on the switch itself) and a IR LED ring to connect on the joy-con so be tracked (like a VR controller). That would make me so happy to play any shooter... No drift anymore.
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Okay maybe Switch is worse but I never noticed it much on my Samsung OLED TV. Felt smooth for me. Right Joycon already has a IR camera, Nintendo Labo came with a sticker to be used with IR camera which essentially did the same thing as a WiiMote. So it is possible. The only problem with the Right Joycon is you don't have easy access to 2 buttons.
 
wolftendo said:
I actually tinkered around using a Retina calculator. The basic principle of "Retina" displays as apple described them is devices with such pixel density that individual pixels will not be noticed by people looking at them with average eyesight.

After writing the switch (OLED) native res and dimensions into the calculator:
tes-2.png

It seems like the Switch reaches Retina Display quality at a viewing distance of 16 inches (40 cm), which after a quick test is less than the distance I hold the switch at when playing handheld while sitting. Differences in people's behavior and positions aside (like the infamous bed mounts) it seems like the switch OLED holds pretty well as a Retina display for games that output the full 720p native resolution. For V1, V2 and Lite switches the distance is even lower, accounting for 14.5" for the first two and 12.88" for the latter. This is why games that output at the full native resolution seem so crisp and nice, and why games outputting at less than native res seem so subpar/jagged. It also doesn't help when the output resolution can't be upscaled nicely to a 720p display (for example, with resolutions that are not perfect divisors of 1280x720).

If we assume a similar sized display with a 1080p output res:
test1.png


We obtain better results than V1 switch, but not enough to radically change the perception of the image's crispness. Especially when 7in OLED displays are proven to look great at 720p. Considering that using a 1080p display requires more battery for a marginal increase in image quality, I bet they will stay using 720p displays, only with more games hitting that 720p goal instead of relying on sub-native resolutions. For me personally I don't have much problems with games in portable mode, except when games hit 480p or lower. Crash Nsane Trilogy was a pain to play due to this reason IMO.
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It would be insane to use a 1080p screen even Valve didn't do it
 
But still works on a battery and that is the biggest thing against a 1080p screen. I would also prefer a 720p screen and have 99% of the games reach that resolution (using DLSS or not), than a 1080p screen and having 50% of the games running at for example 900p
 
If the display of the Switch 2 is 720p, will there be a big difference in performance between dock mode and handheld mode in some games?
I can imagine some games on the Switch 2 pursuing 1440p or 4k with the power of dlss in dock mode, but if those games are 720p in handheld mode... Even if it runs at less than half the clock in handheld mode, there will be excessive power at 720p resolution, so wouldn't that surplus power be used to raise the frame rate? Purely personal speculation without technical expertise.
 
kalosmani said:
480p upgraded to 1080p using DLSS will look worse than 480p upgraded to 720p using DLSS.

Also more pixels more less battery life.
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I agre, but I do not agree it can be ruled out by any means.

There is some evidence in the Nvidia leak possibly pointing towards a 1080p screen.

They could also go with some weir inbetween res, like the Steamdeck.
 
ccff said:
If the display of the Switch 2 is 720p, will there be a big difference in performance between dock mode and handheld mode in some games?
I can imagine some games on the Switch 2 pursuing 1440p or 4k with the power of dlss in dock mode, but if those games are 720p in handheld mode... Even if it runs at less than half the clock in handheld mode, there will be excessive power at 720p resolution, so wouldn't that surplus power be used to raise the frame rate? Purely personal speculation without technical expertise.
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The extra power left on the table will be unused for battery life. I also expect many 3rd party games to reach 1080p docked.
 
0
Mirev said:
If next Switch won’t have BC, it’s gonna be really bad.
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I would be literally done with Nintendo, even as a big fan.
Such a move in a Xbox, Playstation, iOS, Android and SteamDeck world would be suicide in terms of mindshare and customer relations.

I dont think there is ANY chance that Drake wont have basic BC to around 98-99% of the Switch library though.
 
stodesign12 said:
Do we have any real info about the next gen console being a "Switch 2" instead of a completely different kind of system?
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Depends on what you mean by "real info". Most of the rumors about devkits indicate that this is a 4k Switch, so specifically a Switch.

The NVN2 leak refers to the platform specifically as NX, which is the Switch's code name. That suggests IMO that it'll still be a Switch.

I guess there's no additional confirmation.
 
stodesign12 said:
Do we have any real info about the next gen console being a "Switch 2" instead of a completely different kind of system?
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The fact that they're using Drake, 100% confirms it will be portable at the very least.

Unless why bother with mobile tech like lpddr? And although the gpu is bigger than most expect, it's still smaller than any ampere laptop card.
 
Skittzo said:
Depends on what you mean by "real info". Most of the rumors about devkits indicate that this is a 4k Switch, so specifically a Switch.

The NVN2 leak refers to the platform specifically as NX, which is the Switch's code name. That suggests IMO that it'll still be a Switch.

I guess there's no additional confirmation.
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Yep, that's what I mean, thank you. The only problem I see is that a few months ago we were still thinking that those rumors were referring to a mid-gen refresh, and nothing has changed apart from the feeling of now being too late for a "Switch Pro".

Hermii said:
The fact that they're using Drake, 100% confirms it will be portable at the very least.

Unless why bother with mobile tech like lpddr? And although the gpu is bigger than most expect, it's still smaller than any ampere laptop card.
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I don't have an answer for that, but we don't really know the form factor of the next gen console, so who knows why are they supposedly using mobile hardware.
 
stodesign12 said:
Yep, that's what I mean, thank you. The only problem I see is that a few months ago we were still thinking that those rumors were referring to a mid-gen refresh, and nothing has changed apart from the feeling of now being too late for a "Switch Pro".


I don't have an answer for that, but we don't really know the form factor of the next gen console, so who knows why are they supposedly using mobile hardware.
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nVidia would happily sell them bigger hardware normally not used in tablet form portables if the rumored next device was anything but a Switch 2 imo.
 
I don't know how Hogwarts Legacy could run on a Switch if the PC has this requirements:

FmSQ7fJXkAoJ73S


Ram, storage... How?

For example, this is for The Witcher 3:

TW3NG_requirements_table_16x9_EN_ilortqjlts4spa8e.png


I'm convinced that they know about a Switch 2 or pro and that is why they release it 5 months later (when the next model comes out).
 
Krikeno said:
I don't know how Hogwarts Legacy could run on a Switch if the PC has this requirements:

FmSQ7fJXkAoJ73S


Ram, storage... How?

For example, this is for The Witcher 3:

TW3NG_requirements_table_16x9_EN_ilortqjlts4spa8e.png


I'm convinced that they know about a Switch 2 or pro and that is why they release it 5 months later (when the next model comes out).
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They wouldnt have announced it that early then, they have to make the Switch OG port anyway.
 
"So, We wanted to ensure a smooth transition by introducing a Hard Reset on our most successful platform ever. Because Us, and that's the bottom line because your favourite Youtwitch podcast celebrities said so... and a few people on message boards are kinda expecting it. We thought it would be nice to let the Nintendo Misinformation Machine be right for once, tbqh..." - Furukawa, Nintendo Chief (2024, Perhaps).

I don't know why this continues to persist, but the next platform WILL be backwards compatible. Nobody needs a rumour mill to know that, and that MVG fella doesn't know anything more than anybody else in this thread... It's been pointed out that he loves a troll post, and one would do well to treat his comments in an "Obvious Troll Is Obvious" spirit. He also has form for peddling the "Switch Pro" lie (There is no "Pro" and there never was. Rather, more facilities became available, and as developers understood the hardware better, they also improved with experience - This is why you had Witcher 3, then later on, NieR: Automata and No Man's Sky last year, as a few examples, and also why you saw MonolithSoft grow in confidence since their transition to HD development). Seriously, this BC discourse is straight-up BS. It requires you to believe that both Nintendo and Nvidia made a colossal oversight in their long-term partnership, don't have solutions in mind, or don't care for the consequences of ditching BC (also very hard to reconcile with Nintendo's desire to stop Hard Resets with every platform launch). It isn't so far removed from architectural advancements on your phone (most probably an ARM-derivative device), and being able to move your accounts, apps, etc. from one to another. I hoped that the days of trying to "Because Nintendo" one's way into overwhelmingly negative "consensus" and a perpetual doom spiral would be left behind at the New Old Place, but sadly it's ever present on here, even in the face of readily available facts which point to better, more reasonable deductions, if not easily dispel the concern trolls.
 
Hermii said:
Wii U BC was a specific case, that will not be repeated again.

That being that in order to acheive BC, they had to build on the dead PPC 750 architecture that was used for gamecube and Wii. Its actually pretty impressive that they built the only multicore cpu in existence (as far as I know) on that architecture. Hovever they ended up with a more expensive and less powerful chip than if they had just gone with some off the shelf AMD hardware using modern hardware. So in that way. it was limited by BC.

The Nvidia partnership guarantees the Wii U situation will not repeat. Unless Arm dies and the whole industry moves to Risc-V or something.
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Even then, RISC-V support for software built for ARM via virtualization is in full swing as devs and hardware vendors make back-up plans for when (if) ARM sinks. ARM can think it's the best thing to ever happen to mobile devices and is irreplaceable, up until it's replaced.

Personally I don't have any concerns about BC. With the exception of a formfactor change so severe game cards and Joy-Con no longer function, like an all-digital VR headset, I don't see them leaving BC ever again. Not when they're working with a company like Nvidia to virtualize Nvidia architectures on Nvidia silicon.

Heck, we've even seen from the leaks and other places that the official SDK has an "NX" emulation system that explicitly states compatibility with Ampere.
 
Krikeno said:
Yes, that is why I don't understand how could it run on OG Switch. It could become the worst Switch port.
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Pc specs list aren't even representative of the pc experience at times. Using it to gage a Switch port is a folly and a half. The two versions may not have even been by the same teams
 
Angel Whispers said:
"So, We wanted to ensure a smooth transition by introducing a Hard Reset on our most successful platform ever. Because Us, and that's the bottom line because your favourite Youtwitch podcast celebrities said so... and a few people on message boards are kinda expecting it. We thought it would be nice to let the Nintendo Misinformation Machine be right for once, tbqh..." - Furukawa, Nintendo Chief (2024, Perhaps).

I don't know why this continues to persist, but the next platform WILL be backwards compatible. Nobody needs a rumour mill to know that, and that MVG fella doesn't know anything more than anybody else in this thread... It's been pointed out that he loves a troll post, and one would do well to treat his comments in an "Obvious Troll Is Obvious" spirit. He also has form for peddling the "Switch Pro" lie (There is no "Pro" and there never was. Rather, more facilities became available, and as developers understood the hardware better, they also improved with experience - This is why you had Witcher 3, then later on, NieR: Automata and No Man's Sky last year, as a few examples, and also why you saw MonolithSoft grow in confidence since their transition to HD development). Seriously, this BC discourse is straight-up BS. It requires you to believe that both Nintendo and Nvidia made a colossal oversight in their long-term partnership, don't have solutions in mind, or don't care for the consequences of ditching BC (also very hard to reconcile with Nintendo's desire to stop Hard Resets with every platform launch). It isn't so far removed from architectural advancements on your phone (most probably an ARM-derivative device), and being able to move your accounts, apps, etc. from one to another. I hoped that the days of trying to "Because Nintendo" one's way into overwhelmingly negative "consensus" and a perpetual doom spiral would be left behind at the New Old Place, but sadly it's ever present on here, even in the face of readily available facts which point to better, more reasonable deductions, if not easily dispel the concern trolls.
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For the record, MVG is a developer with access to the Switch SDK, maybe even the Dev Kit, so he doesn't know NOTHING, but I do think he's misguided in this case, and assuming that the lack of hardware compatibility means it won't be compatible out the gate full stop. I doubt he, or many small developers, even if they have access to the Switch 2 dev kit, which he might, would be provided with the full suite of software needed to make Switch games work on it.

He IS a developer and he knows developers, I could see this being a case where he's aware of Switch 2 dev hardware that CAN'T run Switch games and just assumes that means the next console won't.
 
YugamiSekai said:
The worst thing Nintendo could do to the next Switch is replace the directional buttons for a regular D-Pad IMO.
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Those buttons sure are a controversial thing. Some people love them, some people hate them. Personally I like them just as much as a D-Pad, but they have different strengths and weaknesses.
 
Concernt said:
For the record, MVG is a developer with access to the Switch SDK, maybe even the Dev Kit, so he doesn't know NOTHING, but I do think he's misguided in this case, and assuming that the lack of hardware compatibility means it won't be compatible out the gate full stop. I doubt he, or many small developers, even if they have access to the Switch 2 dev kit, which he might, would be provided with the full suite of software needed to make Switch games work on it.

He IS a developer and he knows developers, I could see this being a case where he's aware of Switch 2 dev hardware that CAN'T run Switch games and just assumes that means the next console won't.
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Or he's under NDA so he's just playing dumb.
 
MVG made a valid point from a developer's point of view whether we like it or not. In fact, he only suggested that Switch 2 may not be backwads compatible, he didn't confirm or predict anything.
Some people may find it impossible to believe, but let's not disrespect him while he is just bringing ideas to the table for a healthy discussion with Nate.
 
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