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Sales Data Updated sales numbers for Switch titles: Pokémon BDSP (13.97M), Mario Party Superstars (5.43M), Metroid Dread (2.74M), and more

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I’ve been saying you don’t have to break the bank with Star Fox with an Awakening style attempt of the franchise. I’ve outlined what they could bring back or even forward if successful.
 
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First and foremost, I think StarFox needs to prove it can be successful with a "traditional" game before it gets experimental again. Awakening has been mentioned in this thread, but the thing is, it was still a pretty traditional FE game. It managed to become much more successful than previous games thanks to the much higher and much more wider appealing presentation and production values, plus some QoL additions such as casual mode and a sleeker and easier to understand UI which helped immensely to make the game more accessible. Add in a few new (and returning) mechanics, an even greater focus than previous games on the characters, and better marketing, and bam! Awakening was a big success. It wasn't until after it was successful that FE started getting more experimental with Fates and onwards.

So I guess what I'm saying is, we should get a high quality traditional StarFox game with a nice budget that looks appealing to the general public first. If that can become a million seller and ensure its future as a regularly appearing series, then it can start getting more experimental in order to evolve and grow the franchise further and keep it interesting and exciting and to prevent it from stagnating.
 
A traditional Star Fox game will never ever be successful at the price Nintendo wants to sell it for, it's an on rails shooter, people expect more open experiences for the full price tag Nintendo games go for. It would either have to be a cheaper eshop game or they go really big and make it a space RPG.
 
Lucifer said:
A traditional Star Fox game will never ever be successful at the price Nintendo wants to sell it for, it's an on rails shooter, people expect more open experiences for the full price tag Nintendo games go for. It would either have to be a cheaper eshop game or they go really big and make it a space RPG.
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I agree. One thing that came to mind while playing New Pokémon Snap was, "let me stop to take the damn picture!". And I loved Snap. But the genre really turned me away. It really isn't what gaming is supposed to be now, I guess.
 
Here's a serious question that I don't see anyone asking: Does Star Fox need to be big?

I feel like, while Metroid has definitely shared discourse similar to this about how valuable it is as a franchise to Nintendo, there's very rarely times where people flat out say Metroid should be a different game than what it is to be more appealing. People kind of just accept that it's niche, and that it will only sell 2-3 million at most, maybe 4-5 million for the long-awaited Prime 4.

Star Fox on the other hand gets a slightly different, more negative discussion because Star Fox 64 (and to a lesser extent, the SNES game) outperformed the rest of the series by so much. Isn't it just ok to admit that Star Fox will never see the heights of 64 again and move on? We're kind of in a different place with gaming than we were in 1997. I don't think a good Star Fox rail shooter is barred from the kind of sales Nintendo needs to see to continue the series. Star Fox doesn't need to be a sales juggernaut, or even a B-tier Nintendo franchise. It just needs to be a consistent performer. And we can't gauge how attainable that is if Nintendo keeps making subpar games.

I say this as someone who's never played Star Fox, mind you, so sorry if this sounds ignorant.
 
ILikeFeet said:
pick one. Fire Emblem is an inherently more appealing genre, with many other aspects that Star Fox doesn't have to carry the weight
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I don't disagree, and I'm not saying that StarFox 100% can be successful in the "classic" style, just if it's to be a successful, growing IP, it needs to prove it can actually sell first without any of the wacky gimmicks or experiments weighing it down. That way it can naturally evolve and grow in popularity over time instead of furry Mass Effect or whatever being its first game in 6+ years. The dream of an ambitious AAA StarFox game that breaks its rail-shooter conventions would be much more successful I think if Nintendo actually built up the IP first, and y'know, made it something people actually give a shit about first instead of throwing away millions on some avant-garde Miyamoto pet project that doesn't make its return on investment due to mishandling the IP.

I dunno, just my 2 cents. Could be wrong. We may not even get a new StarFox on Switch for all we know lol
 
Dark Cloud said:
Nintendo isn’t going to put Star Fox out to fail. It’s a $60 product to them.
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I dunno, I definitely remember people saying Metroid was bound to perform mediocrely or that it's "too niche." In a world where Game Builder Garage can sell 1 million, Star Fox can easily do more.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Here's a serious question that I don't see anyone asking: Does Star Fox need to be big?

I feel like, while Metroid has definitely shared discourse similar to this about how valuable it is as a franchise to Nintendo, there's very rarely times where people flat out say Metroid should be a different game than what it is to be more appealing. People kind of just accept that it's niche, and that it will only sell 2-3 million at most, maybe 4-5 million for the long-awaited Prime 4.

Star Fox on the other hand gets a slightly different, more negative discussion because Star Fox 64 (and to a lesser extent, the SNES game) outperformed the rest of the series by so much. Isn't it just ok to admit that Star Fox will never see the heights of 64 again and move on? We're kind of in a different place with gaming than we were in 1997. I don't think a good Star Fox rail shooter is barred from the kind of sales Nintendo needs to see to continue the series. Star Fox doesn't need to be a sales juggernaut, or even a B-tier Nintendo franchise. It just needs to be a consistent performer. And we can't gauge how attainable that is if Nintendo keeps making subpar games.

I say this as someone who's never played Star Fox, mind you, so sorry if this sounds ignorant.
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If they want to sell the games for 60 dollars a pop (probably 70 on the next generation of Switch), they're going to have to offer more to keep the series going. I personally don't think the audience is there for an arcade shooter to consistently sell 2-3 million as a full price retail game.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Here's a serious question that I don't see anyone asking: Does Star Fox need to be big?

I feel like, while Metroid has definitely shared discourse similar to this about how valuable it is as a franchise to Nintendo, there's very rarely times where people flat out say Metroid should be a different game than what it is to be more appealing. People kind of just accept that it's niche, and that it will only sell 2-3 million at most, maybe 4-5 million for the long-awaited Prime 4.

Star Fox on the other hand gets a slightly different, more negative discussion because Star Fox 64 (and to a lesser extent, the SNES game) outperformed the rest of the series by so much. Isn't it just ok to admit that Star Fox will never see the heights of 64 again and move on? We're kind of in a different place with gaming than we were in 1997. I don't think a good Star Fox rail shooter is barred from the kind of sales Nintendo needs to see to continue the series. Star Fox doesn't need to be a sales juggernaut, or even a B-tier Nintendo franchise. It just needs to be a consistent performer. And we can't gauge how attainable that is if Nintendo keeps making subpar games.

I say this as someone who's never played Star Fox, mind you, so sorry if this sounds ignorant.
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Probably not, but taking steps backwards in budget will probably be the final nail.
 
storres said:
I agree. One thing that came to mind while playing New Pokémon Snap was, "let me stop to take the damn picture!". And I loved Snap. But the genre really turned me away. It really isn't what gaming is supposed to be now, I guess.
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Yeah, I think it was a fun and novel idea during the Snes and N64 years because 3D was so new, but it's not engaging enough for today.
 
Mekanos said:
If they want to sell the games for 60 dollars a pop (probably 70 on the next generation of Switch), they're going to have to offer more to keep the series going. I personally don't think the audience is there for an arcade shooter to consistently sell 2-3 million as a full price retail game.
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I feel like if Nintendo found a studio that could do it for a decent budget and had the talent, 1.5-2 mil for Star Fox would be all it needs to get one new rail shooter per gen, to be honest.

The problem is just the series isn't big enough for them to go out of their way to find one. Star Fox needs it's own Sakamoto (which is weird to say, given Miyamoto takes that role, yet it hasn't turned out well).
 
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storres said:
Receptions and fans alike. You don't go from a good looking game like Star Fox Zero and Starlink (higher production value) to lower. Reception will bite you in the ass. Either go big or shelve it for good.
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Star Fox Zero is like one of the worst looking high production Wii U games tho.
 
Star Fox Zero was held back by having to render the game twice for both the tv and gamepad screen. I think a new Star Fox game, even with a budget similar to Zero's would end up looking much better.
 
storres said:
Receptions and fans alike. You don't go from a good looking games like Star Fox Zero and Starlink (higher production value) to lower. Reception will bite you in the ass. Either go big or shelve it for good.
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playing it safe is what star fox needs. there's this narrative that it failed because it's a dead genre but look at the games

adventures was a platformer or whatever, assault was a tps, command made you use the touch screen to fly, and zero had one of the most abstruse control schemes of any mass market game

they've taken all these asinine risks and suffered for it. meanwhile a safe sequel to 64 has potential. the 3DS port hit a million lifetime which is decent given 3DS attach rate
 
nintendo should hire tetsuya mizuguchi to make an on-rails successor to rez and call it sound fox.
 
LuckyNumber69 said:
I don't disagree, and I'm not saying that StarFox 100% can be successful in the "classic" style, just if it's to be a successful, growing IP, it needs to prove it can actually sell first without any of the wacky gimmicks or experiments weighing it down. That way it can naturally evolve and grow in popularity over time instead of furry Mass Effect or whatever being its first game in 6+ years. The dream of an ambitious AAA StarFox game that breaks its rail-shooter conventions would be much more successful I think if Nintendo actually built up the IP first, and y'know, made it something people actually give a shit about first instead of throwing away millions on some avant-garde Miyamoto pet project that doesn't make its return on investment due to mishandling the IP.

I dunno, just my 2 cents. Could be wrong. We may not even get a new StarFox on Switch for all we know lol
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I feel like this only works if they're committed to doing two games, one rail shooter and one that's different. a rail shooter wouldn't tell you anything relevant other than the health of the high end rail shooter genre. if they want people to give a shit, you have to give them something they'll buy. a rail shooter just won't be that, regardless of how good it is. some genres will naturally sell less
 
Raccoon said:
I'd love to live in a world where not everything needs to appeal to everyone to be commercially viable

it's making the market bland
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You’re already living in that market? Plenty of games target very specific niches.

In the context of Star Fox, I feel like a pure rail shooter is viable anyway. It’s just a matter of setting appropriate commercial expectations.
 
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Lots of fun stuff this time!

Very pleasantly surprised to see Big Brain Academy cross well over 1m. Was not expecting it so fast! It's nice to see IP from DS/Wii days making a comeback. Hoping for more handheld IP like Tomodachi Life and Rhythm Heaven!

Also didn't expect to see WarioWare and especially not Game Builder Garage cross 1m yet, but glad to see it.

One of the stories I find most interesting and not necessarily talked about a whole lot is what's going on with Mario Party right now. I'm curious to see how it progresses over time, but it's my opinion that SMP and MPSS are very differentiated experiences and will both continue to sell without one cannibalizing the other. Pretty good debut for MPSS, and SMP is on its way to 20m. I think it's possible that SMP will make it to that 20m milestone as early as the end of the next fiscal year, and MPSS will continue to keep moving. It seems likely that MPSS will be able to make it to 10m in fairly short order as well.

I really do find it very interesting to have series with differentiated experiences on the same platform that continue to perform well. Pokemon is definitely the other major example of this, with all four major titles on Switch being very different from one another and also very successful. Arceus's opening week WW being as wild as it is is fun, and we'll see soon how it legs out, especially if the inevitable DLC content for it arrives this year.

I think that as we get further into the Switch lifecycle, there are more opportunities for differentiated entries in the same series. Even on a smaller scale, with a series like WarioWare, I think there's potential here. Get It Together is differentiated from a standard WarioWare game that might typically lean more into console and controller features, so using that as an example, I think there's room for a more 'traditional' WarioWare experience on Switch, too.

It's unfortunate that Splatoon 2 has sort of fallen off a cliff, but a sequel like Splatoon 3 coming soon that looks to obsolete the original is definitely the kind of release that would destroy momentum. Contrary to something like BotW2, which is a new adventure in an existing universe, where I think it will spur additional sales of BotW1 near and after its release, I think the impact that Splatoon 3 will have on Splatoon 2 performance will likely be more muted, especially with the online community of that title likely to move on to Splatoon 3.

Lastly, I'm really excited to see what NDCube has next if not additional content for MPSS. Their Mario Party titles on Switch have done absolutely fantastically, and Clubhouse continues to trot along with pretty solid legs. I think it'd be interesting to see them take on another languishing IP or to create a new spin-off in a series that delivers a type of experience that is different from Mario Party or Clubhouse. It'd be really nice to see them create a new Sports title for Switch, especially seeing that they touched a bit on Wii Sports and Wii Play content in Clubhouse. I'd even be interested in seeing another attempt at a party title in the Animal Crossing universe or even a puzzler (New Panel de Pon/AC Puzzle League? They are always creating new puzzle games for Mario Party).
 
Dark Cloud said:
I don’t think they’re doing to double pack them. Why double them when you can sell them separately for $60? I mean how many more copies would a double pack sell compared to these two separately?

I don’t see a double pack happening.
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Because we talking about games that already received remaster on Wii U, selling same games 3rd time for full price point would be too much even for Nintendo,
also selling them seperate would mean too much seperate releases on Switch, we already have Zelda BotW 1 and soon BotW 2, Links Awakening and SS HD.
So double pack for $60 has plenty of sense.
 
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Incredible numbers. Happy to see that SWSH reached such heights and overtook Gold & Silver.

Next up, PS4 and GB. Should be EZ.
 
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AngryAlchemist said:
Here's a serious question that I don't see anyone asking: Does Star Fox need to be big?

I feel like, while Metroid has definitely shared discourse similar to this about how valuable it is as a franchise to Nintendo, there's very rarely times where people flat out say Metroid should be a different game than what it is to be more appealing. People kind of just accept that it's niche, and that it will only sell 2-3 million at most, maybe 4-5 million for the long-awaited Prime 4.

Star Fox on the other hand gets a slightly different, more negative discussion because Star Fox 64 (and to a lesser extent, the SNES game) outperformed the rest of the series by so much. Isn't it just ok to admit that Star Fox will never see the heights of 64 again and move on? We're kind of in a different place with gaming than we were in 1997. I don't think a good Star Fox rail shooter is barred from the kind of sales Nintendo needs to see to continue the series. Star Fox doesn't need to be a sales juggernaut, or even a B-tier Nintendo franchise. It just needs to be a consistent performer. And we can't gauge how attainable that is if Nintendo keeps making subpar games.

I say this as someone who's never played Star Fox, mind you, so sorry if this sounds ignorant.
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You're not wrong. It's the same kind of discussion that you also see pop up in regards to F-Zero: That for the series to find success again it has to do all of this extraneous stuff that has very little to do with what made the previous games good in the first place. The last few pages have revolved around this idea that Star Fox has an inherent appeal that is held back by the gameplay of its most appealing and successful entries. But who's to say that Star Fox wouldn't hold back a game in a new "more modern" genre? Maybe the hypothetical ceiling people are setting for this IP is a little bit too high.

The railshooter discussion is kind of a red herring anyway. A large part of the appeal of SF64 was its multiplayer and none of the games that followed managed to properly capitalize on it. Assault expanded on it but didn't have any LAN or online multiplayer when Halo 2 had just been released a few months before. Command had online multiplayer but only for 3 people (and it was, well, Command). 643D didn't have any online multi again. Zero on top of being just a bad game didn't have any multiplayer modes at all (correction: it did have local co-op). If Splatoon can sell just shy of 5 million units on the Wii U of all systems mainly off the strength of its multiplayer, it should be possible for a good traditional Star Fox on one of Nintendo's most successful platforms to eke out enough units to guarantee its continued existence. If it can't even do that I see no future for the series period.
 
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I think Nintendo would be pretty happy with a Star Fox title that does 3 to 4 million. They invest in titles which do notably less than that but which have high production values, like their titles with Platinum, for example. Metroid Dread is going to land somewhere in that range, and Nintendo will no doubt be thrilled with that.

I'm agreed with Dardan though that they should try to nail both the single and multi player options for a new Star Fox title. I think that'd be key to the success of a number of dormant series, including things like F Zero, 1080, and Wave Race. Switch has great multiplayer options as a device - splitscreen multiplayer, multi-device multiplayer, and online multiplayer. Part of me suspects the greater success of the Mario sports titles this time around is down to their multiplayer emphasis.

Naturally, I'd like any Star Fox (or F Zero or Wave Race or 1080) to have a strong single player component as part of the package. But there's potential there if they focus on nailing the basics.
 
Raccoon said:
I'd love to live in a world where not everything needs to appeal to everyone to be commercially viable

it's making the market bland
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More broadly, I'd love to live in a world where not everything has to be commercially viable in the sense of making massive profits. Nintendo are making big bucks on their big sellers. They can afford to take a hit on some — by Nintendo standards — relatively niche endeavors that may end up only selling 1-2 mil per game every once in a while.

Changing the genre of a game in the hopes it might appeal to a wider audience is not a move I am incredibly fond of. You may gain an expanded audience, but at the cost of what made the original appealing to a chunk of your pre-existing audience. If you are not content with the performance of your IP, and the only way out is to change its very core, it might be better to make a new IP, instead of diluting it beyond recognition.

This is an irrelevant tangent (but at this point, discussion in this thread at large is, so eh), but I remember when Sony decided to change entirely what God of War was about in terms of gameplay and presentation. Is it selling more now than it used to before the reboot? Yeah. Is it a game that is God of War in more than name, and the fact that the main character is incidentally the same as before? Anyone can be their own judge on that, but I say no.

/rant
 
Nintendo do take on niche things which don't do big numbers. Astral Chain, Sushi Striker, Game Builder Garage, WarioWare, Miitopia, Big Brain Academy, Detective Club, forthcoming stuff like Advance Wars.

I want to think that bodes well for things like Star Fox, which probably has similar commercial potential to Metroid Dread if a similar approach is taken. Nail the basics, do new things without departing radically from the series' strengths, have top production values and advertise the damn thing.
 
Just noticed the difference in New Super U and New Super U Deluxe in MondoMega's excellent post. Switch is on it's way to tripling it's sales.
 
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MisterSpo said:
Nintendo do take on niche things which don't do big numbers. Astral Chain, Sushi Striker, Game Builder Garage, WarioWare, Miitopia, Big Brain Academy, Detective Club, forthcoming stuff like Advance Wars.

I want to think that bodes well for things like Star Fox, which probably has similar commercial potential to Metroid Dread if a similar approach is taken. Nail the basics, do new things without departing radically from the series' strengths, have top production values and advertise the damn thing.
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The term niche for Nintendo games now mean at least 1 million copies. Which is insane imo.
 
MissingNo. said:
More broadly, I'd love to live in a world where not everything has to be commercially viable in the sense of making massive profits. Nintendo are making big bucks on their big sellers. They can afford to take a hit on some — by Nintendo standards — relatively niche endeavors that may end up only selling 1-2 mil per game every once in a while.

Changing the genre of a game in the hopes it might appeal to a wider audience is not a move I am incredibly fond of. You may gain an expanded audience, but at the cost of what made the original appealing to a chunk of your pre-existing audience. If you are not content with the performance of your IP, and the only way out is to change its very core, it might be better to make a new IP, instead of diluting it beyond recognition.

This is an irrelevant tangent (but at this point, discussion in this thread at large is, so eh), but I remember when Sony decided to change entirely what God of War was about in terms of gameplay and presentation. Is it selling more now than it used to before the reboot? Yeah. Is it a game that is God of War in more than name, and the fact that the main character is incidentally the same as before? Anyone can be their own judge on that, but I say no.

/rant
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I’ll say it. God of War 2018 was my biggest let down of the year, possibly decade as a fan of the old ones and the bombastic sword and sandals movies it took inspiration from. The game was a droll bore. It sucked for me.
 
Given the 2.7 shipments vs. 2.3m sales, we may never get a Nintendo update for if/when Metroid breaks 3.0m. Good chance it doesn’t sell 1.0m next fiscal year so Nintendo won t disclose it.

I’m also disappointed at Skyward Sword’s fall off.

Rest of the report is great. I wonder for next Q will look given that shipments exceeded sales for a few games, including Pokémon.
 
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Clix said:
I’ll say it. God of War 2018 was my biggest let down of the year, possibly decade as a fan of the old ones and the bombastic sword and sandals movies it took inspiration from. The game was a droll bore. It sucked for me.
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I was iffy on it when they first revealed it. I did not like how they moved away from it being an arcadey, isometric action game in favour of turning it into yet another cinematic third person action-adventure.

Years later, I picked it up, well after it was introduced to the PS Hits line for 20€, because I had decided that I wanted to give it a fair chance after all. In fairness, aside from the walking and talking, it is not a bad game. But it does nothing to stand out from the crowd, and having played it, I can confidently say I do not care for it one bit.



And this is why whenever someone suggests to take an established IP and turn it inside out so it might potentially increase its sales potential, I die a bit inside.
 
CMM1215 said:
Very pleasantly surprised to see Big Brain Academy cross well over 1m. Was not expecting it so fast! It's nice to see IP from DS/Wii days making a comeback. Hoping for more handheld IP like Tomodachi Life and Rhythm Heaven!
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take heed everyone, as we enter the second touch generation
 
MissingNo. said:
I was iffy on it when they first revealed it. I did not like how they moved away from it being an arcadey, isometric action game in favour of turning it into yet another cinematic third person action-adventure.

Years later, I picked it up, well after it was introduced to the PS Hits line for 20€, because I had decided that I wanted to give it a fair chance after all. In fairness, aside from the walking and talking, it is not a bad game. But it does nothing to stand out from the crowd, and having played it, I can confidently say I do not care for it one bit.



And this is why whenever someone suggests to take an established IP and turn it inside out so it might potentially increase its sales potential, I die a bit inside.
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Aside from what you mentioned, I found the combat so boring. Repetitive arena battles with the leftover Nordic zombie cast from Skyrim and the lack of the awesome boss battles… just left me feel…. Meh
 
ILikeFeet said:
honestly, I blame some of those on being mediocre implementations of whatever they were trying to be. whether it was a shitty TPS, a shitty zelda clone, or a shitty strategy game. and all of them tried to to shoehorn Star Fox conventions into it

the best course of action I think, it to actually commit to the genre. Furry Mass Effect that plays similarly to Mass Effect 3/Vanquish has a damn good chance to outselling most, if not all, SF games I believe. Star Fox isn't not aesthetically unappealing, the games just are
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I fully agree with u, although I never cared for the mass effects games but I get the idea. And, yes Starfox assault had the right idea so they should build a new game based of alot of what assault tried to do and probably hired a western studio or have Next Level games have a go at it. Funny enough, I feel Nintendo has a better track record with western devs working on their IPs than japanese devs who seem to only do the bare minimum. Not trashing Namco here tho since they definitely tried something interesting with Assault. But Koei Tecmo wasn't the right devs for Marvel Alliance, 3 houses turned out right but goddamn that game looks awful. Dread, the Prime games, Luigi's Mansion 2-3, DKC Returns, Mario + Rabbids, Mario Strikers are all top notch quality games where the devs went far beyond to make the best games they possibly could.

Also, I really hate when people bring the sales of games from 20 years ago like it means something. Nintendogs went from a phenomenon to whatever, Luigi Mansion went from like 3M to 8M to 11M+ and 2d Metroid went from under a million (Zero Mission) to 2.74M with in a couple months. Hell, the last 2d Metroid b4 Dread was Samus Returns which also sold way less than a Million.
 
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We don’t need to bring up sales 20 years ago for a rail shooter. We can bring up sales and the bountiful of AAA rail shooters we have today. Oh wait…
 
Terraforce said:
I dunno, I definitely remember people saying Metroid was bound to perform mediocrely or that it's "too niche." In a world where Game Builder Garage can sell 1 million, Star Fox can easily do more.
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My concern is they will just recycle Star Fox Zero but that at best is something they put out AFTER they have a successful reboot.

What they need to recapture Star Fox's cache is simple. Set it with a new story, go back to its space opera roots, just shooting (space/air/land) no on foot missions or gimmicky sidequests. Focus on graphics and make it look good on Switch, include voice acting/cinematics. It will I think find its audience. Could do Dread levels, but it will be a nice supporting title for the holidays.
 
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