OP
OP
Kano
yoda gaming
lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
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LTTP Paper Mario The Origami King is very very good actually
- Thread starter Kano
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(Late to the party)
lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
merp
Darknut
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I... hate these, tbh.lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
D
Deleted member 1896
Guest
Still need to get it.
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The Origami King is one of my favorite games of all time, no question. It is absolutely perfect. There wasn’t a single moment during the whole game where I wasn’t having fun.
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I remember this post like it was yesterday lmao, A+ work
lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
Oh them are fighting words!
Comic Obsessed
Chain Chomp
Everything I see here is great.lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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Cyrus
2D Mario Apologist
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While I don’t mind the character designs in the older games, at least as far as my experience in the first Paper Mario, I prefer the homogenized designs of the newer installments. It feels more streamlined and cohesive that way, and it feels more like a Mario game, which I understand may not be what everyone wants. As far as the Toads go, I hate Toads in general but Paper Mario: The Origami King is overwhelmingly my favorite depiction of them, even though most of them look identical.
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Here's the thing: your point about Admiral Bobbery has been all about how the helm on his back is bad, but there hasn't been anything to back that up.
We're at this point:
Which, it's great that we can disagree, but there's nothing inherently offensive about Bobbery's turnkey being a ship's helm, which is really the only point of evidence presented for these designs being bad. It's an incredibly simple change to set him apart and an incredibly inoffensive one.
Again, your overall takedown of the design is this:
questions which all apply as well to your standard bob-omb, since the helm functionally is the same as the turnkey, just in a different form:
And I don't expect we'll get any sort of analysis of bob-omb culture or explanation as to why their turnkeys might be different, but the helm would function in literally the same way as the turnkey -- there's no actual reason it can't be changed out, unless you're ready to argue bob-omb physiology.I would assume the wheel is used in the same way as the pin possessed by most bob-ombs, as no actual function would be changed, just aesthetic design:
That would elicit all the same questions, since the function would be the same.
Beyond that, we can speculate about Bob-omb society and whether different cultural mores could lead to this piece being changed out, whether to denote rank or status or simply as a body modification (think gage earrings or other piercings, or tattoos), perhaps simply to be punk or make a statement.
It's a lot less nonsensical than you seem to indicate.
Could even be changed so everyone on a ship has no question who's in charge -- it would be much easier to steal or lose his hat than his helmkey -- but that's not actually important.
I mentioned different aesthetic body modifications earlier. Why wouldn't it inherently be a bad design to use those for a character, but this is?
The point is that, as an illustrative example of old Paper Mario designs being bad, this has decidedly not fulfilled its purpose. You don't like it and claim it to be bad, whereas other people disagree and haven't seen anything to persuade them to your opinion.
(A better argument might be that you think Bobbery is overdesigned and cluttered and could benefit from a cleaner design -- after all, he would still be striking and unique with just the helm removed -- though the argument would probably remain fairly ineffective)
In any case, I can't believe this libel I'm reading about @Lady Bow.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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And you've not persuaded me. I recognized a matter of taste being treated as a matter of reason, and sought to provide counterpoint for its own sake. My only goal was to share an alternate opinion to make the former point clear, and my only failure is in you and others not recognizing that.
Almost all TTYD fans love the first game. That's some imaginary caricature.
In fact I've never even seen anyone who exclusively likes TTYD, if they exist they're a infinitesimally small minority of weird sticklers. The overwhelming online consensus is people who like the first 2 (or 3) titles and want a successor to that formula.
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Linkstrikesback
Starman
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What the hell am I reading in this thread?
A bob-omb who is a sailor and so has his key replaced with a ship's wheel is a great design, it instantly tells you about his (previous) profession, that when you need to go and find a sailor, it's really damn obvious whom you need to go to for help.
A bob-omb who is a sailor and so has his key replaced with a ship's wheel is a great design, it instantly tells you about his (previous) profession, that when you need to go and find a sailor, it's really damn obvious whom you need to go to for help.
Oscillator
Moblin
megashock5
Rattata
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I found the boss fights a bit frustrating, but I absolutely loved everything else.
Delightful game.
Delightful game.
Discokuningas
Moblin
Origami King is great. And if you don't count battles Color Splash is as good. I really like older games too, especially second one, and they do have better battles and upgrading etc. But if you can get over that, the two newest games are also great, maybe even better. And Origami King actually has an OK battles with great bosses. I would prefer old system with basic battles but they are still fine.
RobFox64tm
Rattata
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Origami King is fantastic! As long as you view the experience as a fun adventure game rather than an RPG. I would like to see a more traditional Paper Mario in the future, however, but the games are still fun either way.
Lucifer
Like Like
It was a pretty good game that had redundant regular enemy battles, the battles were fun in the beginnen, but got very annoying and pointless without stats/XP upgrades.
Boss battles were really creative.
In the future just make the regular battles action oriented like in SPM but 3D and have fun creative boss battles like in Origami king, perfect mix. Enough of this semi-RPG shit, just let it go if you don't want to do it properly.
Boss battles were really creative.
In the future just make the regular battles action oriented like in SPM but 3D and have fun creative boss battles like in Origami king, perfect mix. Enough of this semi-RPG shit, just let it go if you don't want to do it properly.
Love these, it's my fave Paper Mario game, yeah I even like it more than TTYD lol.lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Dimentio was just begging to be reassembled as origami. Just look at that, all the exquisite folds that would take form. Truly a master of dimensions. 'Tis a shame.lmao if you really wanted examples of terrible chara designs you could pick literally anyone from super paper mario tho
That's fair. I personally always appreciated the variation in design we got through the other games -- it made the world feel more lively and diverse? -- and how the series felt a bit set apart from the rest of the franchise, and would prefer that continue in that way, but not everyone's preferences will match up entirely, and it seems you prefer the world to be cohesive with the rest of the brand -- which seems to be the exact purpose behind this
I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to be persuading you of. It can't be that Bobbery's design is good, considering I immediately followed up with a different take as to why it might be disliked (I did always like the helmkey, though).
The stated goal must have gotten a bit muddled. After you went out of your way to present a clear example to encapsulate and illustrate a strongly-stated opinion that all the designs are rubbish, and then doubled-down on it, it's actually reasonable to consider it as a serious point, which means it should be worth engaging with in such manner (as people have engaged with the referenced "matter of taste being treated as a matter of reason") -- or, at least, not expected that such engagement should be eschewed. It essentially rewrote the point.
You don't like any of the old designs and think they're bad. That's your counterexample.
Do you mean to indicate that point shouldn't have been engaged with?
The stated goal must have gotten a bit muddled. After you went out of your way to present a clear example to encapsulate and illustrate a strongly-stated opinion that all the designs are rubbish, and then doubled-down on it, it's actually reasonable to consider it as a serious point, which means it should be worth engaging with in such manner (as people have engaged with the referenced "matter of taste being treated as a matter of reason") -- or, at least, not expected that such engagement should be eschewed. It essentially rewrote the point.
You don't like any of the old designs and think they're bad. That's your counterexample.
Do you mean to indicate that point shouldn't have been engaged with?
And, if I recall, Bobbery comes across as one who would have totally replaced his key with a ship's helm, even if it weren't actually part of the job, a -- perhaps more drastic -- take on how sailors will get tattoos relating to their own line of work.
In the end, most of all this comes down to opinion, and some people express that rather strongly, some perhaps without consideration that others might think differently.
We don't outright need unique character designs for something to be good.
A game doesn't have to fit into a particular RPG mold.
But that doesn't mean people who prefer previous characteristics of a series won't wish later entries retained those characteristics and, yes, even sometimes take their desires as the only correct outcome.
Sometimes it can be okay to experiment, and that can turn out well or not.
So what you're saying is, Origami King is a clever commentary on the structure of the world and how it facilitates ease for those who have wealth.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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Nothing, though it was my own rhetorical failure that made this unclear.
It's been a few days now, and I recognize that my initial engagement with this topic was an emotional response. I had perceived the fans of the older games as being unfairly sure of their taste being universal and objective. I sought to provide a simple alternative opinion, but I made the mistake of dressing this simple statement of personal taste as a reasoned argument. Two days ago I took the fact that you and others immediately sought to argue with me about the objective merits of your preferred aesthetic as demonstrative of the thought pattern I was so irritated by, but in retrospect it's clearly the result of how I led the conversation.
To summarize with neither the pretense of objectivity nor the hyperbole of a shitpost: I find the old character designs not to be terrible, but instead overrated. The aesthetic change is continuously presented as emblematic of the downfall of these games with no consideration that at least one person prefers them. I fell victim to my frustration with a long-running thread of discourse and presented an indefensible argument when I should have been forthright.
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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I'm glad we could come to an understanding.
People often don't like change in general, especially if they perceive it as taking something away from them.
As far as overall aesthetic change, I do find it interesting how often I've seen over the past years people lament the series' progression into a further stylized paper-based art style. The overall art style can be used to gorgeous effect (though, clearly, I have a soft spot for this type of aesthetic).
And, to be fair, there are those who embody such a perception; the observation is not entirely without merit, for Paper Mario discourse is fraught with peril, and there are loud segments of the fandom who do comport themselves in such manner.
I do think at least some of this is less to do with the exact designs and more with the desire for a more distinct series identity, less homogenization, less focus on an approved brand look -- which, certainly, some people appreciate -- , and also that the change in character designs is tied to the connection with the shift from the series' RPG roots.
People often don't like change in general, especially if they perceive it as taking something away from them.
As far as overall aesthetic change, I do find it interesting how often I've seen over the past years people lament the series' progression into a further stylized paper-based art style. The overall art style can be used to gorgeous effect (though, clearly, I have a soft spot for this type of aesthetic).
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I'm gonna say something detrimental to discourse in this thread. I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself any longer. If you are easily enraged by opinions please do not open the below spoiler for kano's sake.
The Mario sanctity council or whatever did us all a fucking favor. All the beloved old Paper Mario characters? Those games are freakshows with lazy ass design. This guy has a fucking wheel taped to his back. I don't care if it's "unique," all of these characters look like shit.
You could have just posted Flurrie and none of this would have happened. Then again, the coomers might have come after you…
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double post
Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
Breath of the Wild is classic Zelda. As in a return to Zelda 1's style. A Link to the Past style and everything that came after it, is not classic Zelda.
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There’s no reason to point this out other than a weak “gotcha”
I’m pretty sure everyone could figure out that I mean the dozen Zeldas that follow the same template prior to BotW, not the ONE that doesn’t.
And even then I’d argue that Zelda 1 adheres a lot more to LTTP than it does BotW. People blew that way out of proportion imo, but that’s a conversation for another thread.
Linkstrikesback
Starman
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- He
This has always been a ridiculous argument. No, Zelda 1 being slightly more open than literally everything that followed doesn't make that what "classic" Zelda was and is a borderline foolish desperate appeal to semantics for what is obviously wrong by the intent of the word.
When people say classic they obviously mean what the series settled in to being for what, two decades and a half?
Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
You're rewriting history to confirm to your ideas of what classic Zelda is. Zelda 1 will ALWAYS exist whether you like it or not.
To me Zelda 1 will ALWAYS be "classic" Zelda.
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Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
Breath of the Wild was literally built from Zelda 1 as a template. They even used Zelda 1's assets to test Breath of the Wild's systems. Watch the GDC talk for Breath of the Wild.
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You’re missing this part though:
It’s literally semantics. Everyone here knows what I mean when I say “classic Zelda” - classic relative to BotW is the formula quite literally every game in the series used until BotW.
I’ve watched the GDC talk and know that they built an 8 bit version. That doesn’t change the fact that the literal only thing that makes BotW like Zelda 1 compared to every other game in the series is more open ended exploration. Zelda 1 has big dungeons with dungeon items as the core gameplay loop, which continues with every Zelda up until BotW. To say BotW is a “return to Zelda 1” is like saying it’s a return to SS because link can paraglide and has a stamina meter. It takes cues from multiple games in the series but is by far the most different of any of them, even Zelda 1.
However nothing in that prior paragraph matters because like I said - it’s semantics. There’s no reason to point it out other than a “gotcha” moment. Everyone knows what I meant.
Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
I not trying to "gotcha" anything. I'm simply tired of people referring to classic Zelda as a Link to the Past style when Zelda 1 exists. It's a disservice to a landmark game.
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You can throw Zelda 1 in there too then. Like I said, they’re all more similar to eachother than BotW is to any of them - that’s the main point.
Everyone of them, even Zelda 1, share a big part of the same formula that BotW broke away from.
Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
Well I disagree since I was extremely disappointed with a Link to the Past compared to Zelda 1 when it came out. It lost the freedom of the original. Breath of the Wild is the only Zelda game that captured the "classic" Zelda experience, in my opinion. And I've been playing Zelda games since 1987.
But you're right that we should continue this discussion in another thread sometime.
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I got past the theme park area and just can not make myself push on. I had a similar issue with Super Paper Mario. And I’m someone who enjoyed Sticker Star, Color Splash and of course TTYD. The gameplay just leaves me so cold. People say the random encounters suck, and I agree, but the boss battles are even worse.
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My hyperspecific complaint is that during combat you have to hold the start button to add coins to the timer, but that turns my 8bitdo controller off.
So now i'm struggling to reconnect my controller all while the combat timer is ticking down, and once i do, i again have to press the start button to bring the timer back up, this time more carefully.
Additional mechanics for the game i guess.
Also just finished the ice part and I wish there was a way to turn off the hint system. I didn't realize that leaving and entering the rooms would reset the puzzles, which i did plenty of while exploring, and if you do that enough times the answer for the room just gets revealed to you.
So now i'm struggling to reconnect my controller all while the combat timer is ticking down, and once i do, i again have to press the start button to bring the timer back up, this time more carefully.
Additional mechanics for the game i guess.
Also just finished the ice part and I wish there was a way to turn off the hint system. I didn't realize that leaving and entering the rooms would reset the puzzles, which i did plenty of while exploring, and if you do that enough times the answer for the room just gets revealed to you.
