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Discussion Zelda TotK and Super Mario Bros: Wonder developer talk coming to GDC 2024 (UPDATE: The talk available on the website, check threadmark)
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Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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Ah! They did ideas in sticky notes. I love that.
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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I don't know if they said anything on the development timeline, but I really would like to know for sure if development of TotK started right after BotW, and when exactly Wonder began(there's that "after NSMBU DX, but it could be after that one wrapped up which was like mid 2018 or earlier than that).
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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Damn those unused Wonder effects ideas make me wish SO BADLY for DLC now!! Super Rosalina Bros Wonder pls. There's stuff on data mines that point to DLC happening, right?
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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BlackthornOrion
#theprocessbroke
Just a hunch, but I think they probably started on it sometime after Mario Maker 2. Some things in Wonder like the musical levels and race levels feel like they were working out some "how do we bring things people are doing in Mario Maker into the main game" stuff
plus iirc a new job listing for a 2d level designer in Kyoto went up around the same time MM2 was wrapping up support
Steve
Koopa
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The online functionality is actually pretty cool if you see it with your own eyes.
i think RTgame shows the functionality the very best in my opinion.
OP
OP
SNP
Sorcerer Supreme
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Yeah, after seeing the line "not for yourself but for the people around you", the reason is definitely feel like this. Since you can't mess with people anymore, the only thing you can do is helping them.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if half the inspiration for Wonder’s online play was people on the dev team playing Journey.
Semi-related, this is from like 9 months ago:
Sometimes I really don’t understand the duality of the Internet’s relationship with Nintendo. To be both derided and revered at the same time is just boggling. Not that Nintendo doesn’t do some pretty odd or bad things at time but on the whole there’s a reason why they’re basically the industry leader on a number of fronts.
Semi-related, this is from like 9 months ago:
Sometimes I really don’t understand the duality of the Internet’s relationship with Nintendo. To be both derided and revered at the same time is just boggling. Not that Nintendo doesn’t do some pretty odd or bad things at time but on the whole there’s a reason why they’re basically the industry leader on a number of fronts.
Superstarxalien
pfp by @ShiiNoctua
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the internet is not a hivemind
soundchaser
DA CHEAT
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And yet “Nintendo for kiddies” persists…. Maybe it’s just the revolving door of new teens casting off their childhood interests and then coming back once they age/mature that I’m shaking my head at?
Anyways, just an observation and maybe I cast too wide a net with it.
BlackthornOrion
#theprocessbroke
I think the difference is that, generally, the drive-by derision is coming from random anonymous 14 year olds or ragebait influencers, and the reverence is usually coming from people who... aren't that
Like Stephen Totilo and Chris Kohler aren't nobodies or even clickbait youtubers. They've both been on (for lack of a better term) the "serious media" side of the industry for a good while (and iirc Kohler works for Digital Eclipse nowadays, so he's on the dev side too), and I think that's gonna give someone a more nuanced perspective than someone coming at things from a more purely consumer/"influencer" angle
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Marce-chan
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I believe after SMM2 they'd have everyone on board and the mass hirings were on October 2019, so it does give an idea.
But at least to one site they said it started development "after New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe". But "after the release in January 2019" was probably the interpretation the site had. It could be since development on it wrapped up which can be as early as early 2018 when we had the very first rumor on it in January and the game was even uploaded to eShop back then.
There's a ton of people what were uncredited since Octo Expansion so I believe at least pre-production was started awhile before 2019.
Which we'd had more clear answers like Fujiybayashi saying exactly January 2013 as the start of development for BotW in the documentary series
.Tears of the Kingdom on the other hand I can't help but wonder if pre-production was faster since ideas were fresh on stuff they thought for DLC but immediately scrapped and decided for a sequel, the Champion's Ballad being mostly Monolith, and "Legendary" hiring by Monolith in early 2018.
AstroOhHey
Shriekbat
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I still think Nintendo often has an ass-backwards approach to online in a lot of ways but I do think stuff like this makes it clear where their head's at and while it's not the most ideal situation for me (though I can/do just play a lot of their stuff locally with friends thankfully), it probably is a much better way to integrate online play for families and avoid the dangerous pitfalls other companies fall into.
Fortnite or Minecraft aren't like, an insanely unsafe venue for kids and I don't think either company's unaware of the potential issues there, but it's probably a lot easier for some weird shit to go down there with minors than in Mario Wonder where it's entirely collaborative-based with zero communication. Not the most ideal when I want to play multiplayer with friends over in the US/UK/Asia, but I get where they're coming from. Even Mario Maker's online is probably something that puts Nintendo on edge given you can write/draw your own messages.
Steve
Koopa
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Don’t forget all the creepy adults lurking in child spaces.
Sadly one of the biggest reason why Nintendo and Sakuria prefer smash to be a couch coop game and not heavily online focus with the pitfall that community faces.
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Absolutely. But that's been a known concern since Mario Kart DS (if not earlier) and we had the whole incident around Swapnote which resulted in its takedown.
Steve
Koopa
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Naw it was pictochat. Fox News had a whole segment telling the danger of it
(despite it being safer than all the social media combined for children)
Also if a child gets into trouble or start saying mean stuff, the parents will blame. Nintendo and that would mean bad publicity for them. We see it happen again and again and the best way to protect children is by by supervising them, but that can be pretty hard for some parents if they’re tech illiterate. I say that since I’m the one supervising my younger brother.
ze_
Moblin
From IGN's article on the Tears of the Kingdom panel:
A really fascinating approach. Really hope the full presentation is shared online.
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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Anyone that has a Twitter account can see if there's more stuff about the Wonder panel posted? 
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There are certainly engines for sound. but not really anything done on his scale. Sound design is one of the last priorities for the majority of games. Sound is typically given a microscopic budget both in money, and performance compared to something like graphics.
Quite fascinating. Nintendo has always seemed particular about sound design (to my untrained ears, at least), and it contributes significantly to the tactile crunchiness of their games.
brainchild
Moblin
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Genuinely curious how this engine is going to be reused and evolved in future Zelda games. I suspect a lot of the mechanics like Ultrahand and the Zonai artefacts will be scrapped completely in favour of new stuff but the underlying tech is fascinating.
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Whats crazy, is that Tears of the Kingdom is a completely different engine than BotW. They literally rebuilt the entirety of BotW into Nintendo's new in-house engine, then they made additions on top of it. It's actually the same engine as Splatoon 3, Animal Crossing, ARMS, and Switch Sports. Which I assume is going to be Nintendo's new in-house engine for all of their games.
BlackthornOrion
#theprocessbroke
Slight correction, it's the same engine as Splat 3 and Switch Sports (as well as Mario Wonder and Mario vs Donkey Kong remake) but not quite the same as Animal Crossing and ARMS
Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars
I'm a Starfox fan and I don't want a "pure Starfox experience" as that "experience" was due to technical limitations of its time. Yeah I want Adventures remake and on top of that I want a sequel directly from Rare. Every Nintendo franchise is getting their revolutionary entry one by one and...
famiboards.com
Apparently though it is similar enough to LunchPack that dataminers didn't really realize it was a new engine until looking at TotK:
(the sense I get is ModuleSystem is largely built off of LunchPack while also incorporating elements from the BotW engine)
And you're definitely right that it seems it'll be the default in-house engine going forward (at least for EPD and the studios closest to them like NST)
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Slight correction, it's the same engine as Splat 3 and Switch Sports (as well as Mario Wonder and Mario vs Donkey Kong remake) but not quite the same as Animal Crossing and ARMS
Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars
I'm a Starfox fan and I don't want a "pure Starfox experience" as that "experience" was due to technical limitations of its time. Yeah I want Adventures remake and on top of that I want a sequel directly from Rare. Every Nintendo franchise is getting their revolutionary entry one by one and...
Apparently though it is similar enough to LunchPack that dataminers didn't really realize it was a new engine until looking at TotK: (the sense I get is ModuleSystem is largely built off of LunchPack while also incorporating elements from the BotW engine)
And you're definitely right that it seems it'll be the default in-house engine going forward (at least for EPD and the studios closest to them like NST)
Nice correction there.
I thought it was just a continuation of Lunch pack, called Lunch pack 2. But it's nice to know it has even more differences. An engine called Module System makes far more sense for every title going forward. It seems like they made it far easier to drop brand new engine elements for each specific game with a name like that. It makes sense.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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Slight correction, it's the same engine as Splat 3 and Switch Sports (as well as Mario Wonder and Mario vs Donkey Kong remake) but not quite the same as Animal Crossing and ARMS
Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars
I'm a Starfox fan and I don't want a "pure Starfox experience" as that "experience" was due to technical limitations of its time. Yeah I want Adventures remake and on top of that I want a sequel directly from Rare. Every Nintendo franchise is getting their revolutionary entry one by one and...
Apparently though it is similar enough to LunchPack that dataminers didn't really realize it was a new engine until looking at TotK: (the sense I get is ModuleSystem is largely built off of LunchPack while also incorporating elements from the BotW engine)
And you're definitely right that it seems it'll be the default in-house engine going forward (at least for EPD and the studios closest to them like NST)
It's a pretty dang capable engine considering what it's able to do in Totk. And tbh, the games that don't even push it, like Mario VS DK look good to me. Get it on more capable hardware, and it seems like you have a solid foundation for future titles.
The fact that it's so robust with genres is a good sign for titles less intense, so teams are able to carry over knowledge.
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I think we overestimate the role of an "Engine" here.
Of course it plays a very important part as the basis Framework for the Core Game-Logic, what tools they can use (like Havok Engine for Phyisics in Zelda) and how Graphics can be compiled (NVN).
Though many things still will be custom build from a game to game basis. TOTK and Splatoon 3 might share the same basis as a core, but when it comes to the many systems the games may have and what devs are actually capable to create within those two game-frameworks will be vastly different. Those Engines are not like Unity where you can start creating a game in 2D and then say mid-development let's switch to 3D Graphics without much major programing rework.
In the end it is a technicality. BOTW and TOTK will be except for their cores be way more similar to each other than they will ever be to let's say Mario Wonder.
Of course it plays a very important part as the basis Framework for the Core Game-Logic, what tools they can use (like Havok Engine for Phyisics in Zelda) and how Graphics can be compiled (NVN).
Though many things still will be custom build from a game to game basis. TOTK and Splatoon 3 might share the same basis as a core, but when it comes to the many systems the games may have and what devs are actually capable to create within those two game-frameworks will be vastly different. Those Engines are not like Unity where you can start creating a game in 2D and then say mid-development let's switch to 3D Graphics without much major programing rework.
In the end it is a technicality. BOTW and TOTK will be except for their cores be way more similar to each other than they will ever be to let's say Mario Wonder.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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Regardless of the customization, it is good for Nintendo to have an engine as flexible be in house so they aren't completely beholden to the whims of third party engines like Unreal and Unity. A certain level of autonomy is good there.
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I don't think anyone is saying anything of that sort. Of course, you can make a huge amount of differing experiences with the same engine. However, these games being on the same engine will make it easier to implement better quality technology into any game. Meaning it will be a lot easier to just drag and drop any system from TotK into any game.
For example, Super Mario Wonder has absolutely amazing sound effects, from proximity based music, to music connected to characters, to interactive soundtracks, to really impressive reverb based on area. I would not be surprised if they took TotK's sound system, and just plopped it in there, and made some tweaks to have it suit Mario wonder.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
It’s the same sort of thing we see from the lighting as well. They seem to be very particular is this department when they can.
HockeyBird
Villager
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Aonuma didn't get to fulfill his digging holes dream in TOTK. We're getting The Legend of Zelda: Red Faction on Switch 2.
