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News Xbox closes Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and others.

Christo750 said:
tbh there's really only so much you can blame on Mattrick at this point.

Phil actually did a decent amount of work to bring third parties back around him, and get people at least affectionate towards the Xbox brand, at least from 2016-2019. and Game Pass is favorably viewed by fans/indie devs. But it's clearly not sustainable because of the revolving door of big-name games to sell the service (mostly because it's still too cheap), with not enough of a first-party allure to build a solid foundation for that service. and eventually the plan became clear that since Microsoft couldn't build it, they'd leverage their money and buy it.

He said on that KF podcast he did, and i'm paraphrasing, "it's not like we can just build great games and suddenly attract people to the ecosystem" but like...they totally could've? that's precisely what ecosystems are built on. his meaning is that people are more ingrained in other ecosystems but so what? truly great games are always THE incentive to get people into an ecosystem.

Phil was obviously working with a blank check and given the CEO's blessing to do what he needs to do to build the service but that's gone now. He's had a decade+ to right the ship and he can't; especially after this. Even considering the DRM Mattrick era, it's never felt more cooked.
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gamepass was only really viewed as favorably by indie devs because MS threw money and them...and apparently that belt has gotten tighter
 
BotenAnna said:
This is a horribly inappropriate thing to be posting in a thread about a major layoff that just happened. Like, my god can you not make this some weirdo fanboy/console war bullshit right now?
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My point is that gamers in general don't care about who treats their developers good. That is why Nintendo has bad reputation among gamers while companies that threat their developers like crap like Microsoft are seen as the best in the business by the average core gamer.
 
Can def see Ninja Theory being the next to close after Hellblade 2 releases. Tameem might've left because he saw the writing on the wall (like Mikami)
 
Danny said:
My point is that gamers in general don't care about who treats their developers good. That is why Nintendo has bad reputation among gamers while companies that threat their developers like crap like Microsoft are seen as the best in the business by the average core gamer.
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I know what your point is, and it's still absolute trash at a time like this. People keep getting hit by mass layoffs at all these different game studios, and you're trying to spin it about some reddit tier fan nonsense and how great and misunderstood Nintendo is. Stop posting.
 
BotenAnna said:
I know what your point is, and it's still absolute trash at a time like this. People keep getting hit by mass layoffs at all these different game studios, and you're trying to spin it about some reddit tier fan nonsense and how great and misunderstood Nintendo is. Stop posting.
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And will that change gamers from seeing Phil Spencer as the gamer god? No. So why would Microsoft care when the bad PR is non existant for them anyway?
 
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Lugia667 said:
gamepass was only really viewed as favorably by indie devs because MS threw money and them...and apparently that belt has gotten tighter
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for sure, and it was foolish to do that cause indie games are like $10-20 to buy outright. they don't bolster the value of a service by much, and its emblematic of the greater issue, which is MS/Xbox/Phil's insistence to throw money at a problem with no real vision of how to solve things.
 
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Razgriz said:
It's obvious, but usually people who are still employed don't say that sorta thing about their bosses. The only ones who have been going off in anger at this particular style of doing business are those who have been laid off, at least until now. Now the complaints are coming from inside the house so to speak.

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Anyone know who Dinga is quoting at the end of his tweets with “Please Stop”? I can only think of Giant Bomb but I don’t think that’s it
 
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Everything's already been said, but Prey and TEW2 are two of the best video games I have ever played; heartbreaking that your reward for that as a dev is losing your job
 
Thunder84 said:
Have to admit, I’m seriously debating selling my Xbox now. The multiplatform stuff was already a factor, but now this? Just leaves a gross taste in my mouth.

The moment I see some sort of confirmation that most of Xbox’s output is going multiplatform, I’m out. Gamepass ain’t worth it for me at this point, no matter how much I love it.
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Absolutely everyone is different, but the biggest thing I want you to think about, is Gamepass really worth it for the consumer financially?

You get MS first party games, which quickly go on sale(Starfield is now $30, and I guarantee if your average gamer is into it, it will last far more than 3 months of Gamepass).

You get indie games, which again go on sale quite a bit. You can get many indie games for less than $5, and then get to keep them and play forever.

Then third party games. Which eventually get to be so dirt cheap, like around $10 for Assassin's Creed Odyssey nowadays.

I was entranced by the allure of Gamepass...... But it just simply isn't worth it. It doesn't save you money, it's kind of a money sink. It's much better to get a game or games for $20 every month and then you get a huge library.

It was cool kind of as a demo service for a month.... But not much more than that.
 
Terrible news. The sad end-point of industry consolidation. Infinite growth simply is not possible, but that's not what corps (and even many consumers) want to hear. Here's hoping that everyone affected is able to land on their feet. What an awful situation to be in.

Could this be what it takes to make gamers stop begging console makers to buy third parties? Sadly, probably not.
 
Lozjam said:
Absolutely everyone is different, but the biggest thing I want you to think about, is Gamepass really worth it for the consumer financially?

You get MS first party games, which quickly go on sale(Starfield is now $30, and I guarantee if your average gamer is into it, it will last far more than 3 months of Gamepass).

You get indie games, which again go on sale quite a bit. You can get many indie games for less than $5, and then get to keep them and play forever.

Then third party games. Which eventually get to be so dirt cheap, like around $10 for Assassin's Creed Odyssey nowadays.

I was entranced by the allure of Gamepass...... But it just simply isn't worth it. It doesn't save you money, it's kind of a money sink. It's much better to get a game or games for $20 every month and then you get a huge library.

It was cool kind of as a demo service for a month.... But not much more than that.
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While Xbox is at the top of my shitlist, I don't really agree with any of this.
  • Xbox games go on sale, that is true, but how many people out there are buying an Xbox specifically to buy Xbox games? PlayStation has access to a much larger library, with more guaranteed support.
  • Most indie games absolutely do not go on sale for less than $5, that's baloney.
  • Same with 3rd party games. Some do, most don't. And usually, the 3rd party games that are going for that cheap aren't exactly desirable anyway.
  • Additionally, you're ignoring the biggest benefit of Gamepass: the lack of commitment. If you buy a digital game that you don't like, you're shit out of luck. Gamepass let's you try games that you otherwise might have not risked spending money on, and you can go from there. The freedom of choice is incredibly freeing.
I don't think Gamepass is enough to keep me on Xbox if everything goes multiplatform, given that I do have the money to buy indies and other Gamepass games. But there is 100% a strong market for Gamepass that will benefit a lot of people. Reaching a point where Gamepass isn't a good deal for you is a luxury.
 
Thunder84 said:
While Xbox is at the top of my shitlist, I don't really agree with any of this.
  • Xbox games go on sale, that is true, but how many people out there are buying an Xbox specifically to buy Xbox games? PlayStation has access to a much larger library, with more guaranteed support.
  • Most indie games absolutely do not go on sale for less than $5, that's baloney.
  • Same with 3rd party games. Some do, most don't. And usually, the 3rd party games that are going for that cheap aren't exactly desirable anyway.
  • Additionally, you're ignoring the biggest benefit of Gamepass: the lack of commitment. If you buy a digital game that you don't like, you're shit out of luck. Gamepass let's you try games that you otherwise might have not risked spending money on, and you can go from there. The freedom of choice is incredibly freeing.
I don't think Gamepass is enough to keep me on Xbox if everything goes multiplatform, given that I do have the money to buy indies and other Gamepass games. But there is 100% a strong market for Gamepass that will benefit a lot of people. Reaching a point where Gamepass isn't a good deal for you is a luxury.
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Yeah Gamepass is a great deal. Sadly too great.

I don't feel like there's a good point where Gamepass is a good deal for the consumer and not a bad one for developers and publishers who aren't being moneyhatted. (Of which MS is committing to less and less.)

As much as I think Gamepass is a great service, it esques too much in our favor, to the point we'd have Netflix style problem soon enough where prices would have to eventually increase or ads would have to become a prominent thing to make up the lost profits to these conglomerates. We've already seen the fallout from the streaming wars.
 
Lugia667 said:
apparently there are rumors that Redfall DLC was being worked on not even 5 hours ago

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much worse than that, actually.
the game was supposed to get a big update this month that, among other features, was supposed to remove the always online requirement.

say what you will about the actual quality of it. but damning the title to a slow death with the servers inevitably shut off is a complete and utter disaster. and there really should be a campaign to get Microsoft to at least finish that part of the update.
 
Imagine still being employed there. How could you even get work done if you feel like you're on edge and about to get laid off. How does this not inspire major crunch from panicking devs and project managers, potentially damaging a variety of projects down the road.
 
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Armoured_Bear said:
Why would Monolith Soft been shuttered after providing huge support to arguably the GOAT as well as a string of hit RPGs?
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I think he means in a situation where monolith soft was not a part of Nintendo, they would be in a more precarious position than they are now.
 
It's not much solace, but this is the most backlash for a studio closure or layoff I've ever seen. People across the industry are pissed. I've already seen Remedy offer to take in Tango Gameworks devs, hopefully others do the same for both Tango and Arkane.
 
AlexTheRecluse said:
Jesus. I wouldn't feel comfortable working under them these days, that's for damn sure.
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The sad thing about watching massive corporations dismantle artistic industry is that really, nobody who isn't either one of said co or super financially stable and completely independent is very safe. The latter being incredibly uncommon. This is a trend that's been going on for the better part of a decade, if not slightly longer when talking big acquisitions/layoffs. MS is one of a handful of big players who is chasing, let's be honest, unrealistic goals in this industry. But profit drive isn't going to ignore that reality.

But I think a lot of folks who have worked with them probably share your sentiment. It's difficult to ignore the scummy practices time after time.

Honestly, regulatory practice needs to be reevaluated. It's chaotic at best, scary at worst when talking game creation or production. If someone comes in with a big wallet and buys out your employer(s), what can you really do without drastic change? And when there's like four companies that can swing that... A lotta folks roll and pray.
 
Honestly Nintendo seems right now the only big publisher having a vision and keeping their resources together. Of course no company can be fully trusted, but at least for now they seem doing that what you‘d expect from them while everything else is on fire. Seriously if it weren‘t for them, I currently would have little to no hope for the industry.
 
At this point it seems like Microsoft/xbox doesn’t even want to deal with video games anymore. Like, they had a future hit on their hands with tango and hi fi rush, and just said “nah” because it couldn’t convince enough people to sign up for a subscription service that isn’t even that good of a deal for most people anyway.
 
Krvavi Abadas said:
much worse than that, actually.
the game was supposed to get a big update this month that, among other features, was supposed to remove the always online requirement.

say what you will about the actual quality of it. but damning the title to a slow death with the servers inevitably shut off is a complete and utter disaster. and there really should be a campaign to get Microsoft to at least finish that part of the update.
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People lose their jobs, the studio closes, and yet.

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE UPDATE CODE?!"

Jesus Christ. Have some class. The state of Redfall is the furthest thing from important right now.
 
Magic-Man said:
It's not much solace, but this is the most backlash for a studio closure or layoff I've ever seen. People across the industry are pissed. I've already seen Remedy offer to take in Tango Gameworks devs, hopefully others do the same for both Tango and Arkane.
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Does Remedy have a Japanese office?
 
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Hailinel said:
People lose their jobs, the studio closes, and yet.

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE UPDATE CODE?!"

Jesus Christ. Have some class. The state of Redfall is the furthest thing from important right now.
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I think the point is more that the employees likely learned when we did
 
robertman2 said:
I think the point is more that the employees likely learned when we did
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That I don't doubt. As a victim of a past mass layoff, it's the one of the absolute worst ways to find out.

But I doubt Krvavi's priorities in the way he hyperfocused on Redfall's state. Like Microsoft would (or even should) bring in a scab crew to finish the update after closing the studio? That's laughable.
 
Hi-Fi Rush is the one of the rare things Microsoft has made that look appealing to me, I hope to have to opportunity to play it someday.

It feels like we're watching Phil Spencer on a speedrun to take Microsoft's game division under, any %
 
Felony said:
The sad thing about watching massive corporations dismantle artistic industry is that really, nobody who isn't either one of said co or super financially stable and completely independent is very safe. The latter being incredibly uncommon. This is a trend that's been going on for the better part of a decade, if not slightly longer when talking big acquisitions/layoffs. MS is one of a handful of big players who is chasing, let's be honest, unrealistic goals in this industry. But profit drive isn't going to ignore that reality.

But I think a lot of folks who have worked with them probably share your sentiment. It's difficult to ignore the scummy practices time after time.

Honestly, regulatory practice needs to be reevaluated. It's chaotic at best, scary at worst when talking game creation or production. If someone comes in with a big wallet and buys out your employer(s), what can you really do without drastic change? And when there's like four companies that can swing that... A lotta folks roll and pray.
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I think it is fair to say that this is a problem endemic across most industries, and seems to be increasing (at least to me, anecdotally) at an unsustainable rate. I think our current system of investment is broken, and obviously favours the resource-rich to maintain that superiority - but it will reach a tipping point eventually. In the meantime a lot of really good people will get stepped on in the name of profits.
 
Thunder84 said:
While Xbox is at the top of my shitlist, I don't really agree with any of this.
  • Xbox games go on sale, that is true, but how many people out there are buying an Xbox specifically to buy Xbox games? PlayStation has access to a much larger library, with more guaranteed support.
  • Most indie games absolutely do not go on sale for less than $5, that's baloney.
  • Same with 3rd party games. Some do, most don't. And usually, the 3rd party games that are going for that cheap aren't exactly desirable anyway.
  • Additionally, you're ignoring the biggest benefit of Gamepass: the lack of commitment. If you buy a digital game that you don't like, you're shit out of luck. Gamepass let's you try games that you otherwise might have not risked spending money on, and you can go from there. The freedom of choice is incredibly freeing.
I don't think Gamepass is enough to keep me on Xbox if everything goes multiplatform, given that I do have the money to buy indies and other Gamepass games. But there is 100% a strong market for Gamepass that will benefit a lot of people. Reaching a point where Gamepass isn't a good deal for you is a luxury.
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1. This is the reason why it's such a better deal just purchase games. If your only reason to have Xbox games is for Xbox exclusives..... Well it's so much cheaper to buy the one game that Xbox releases a year. You're not saving any money at all if playing first party titles is your only goal. Already, the only big game that Xbox has released since November was Starfield. If you were paying for Gamepass just to play Starfield. You have already spent $80, whereas you could have bought it for $70 and are now able to keep it.

2. You are factually incorrect. I dont have an Xbox anymore, but on the Switch eshop, the top games currently under $5 are:
Abzu
Blossom Tales
Dragon's Dogma(not an Indie game, but still impressive)
Ocean Horn
Bridge Constructor Portal
Death Road to Canada
Nine Parchments
Scott Pilgrim
Runbow

And this is not even a special time. I have also personally seen even more high profile indie games on sale for less than $5, such as
Shovel Knight
Undertale
Celeste
Steamworld Dig 2
Stardew Valley
Subnautica

And this is the Switch. The deals get even better on PC.
They also have price histories at Deku Deals as well if you would like to double check me.

3. Capcom games constantly go on sale, as does Ubisoft. Capcom games are extremely desirable. Sega does a great job with discounts too. You can also buy physical games for dirt cheap too. I have gotten Red Dead Redemption 2 for like $10 at a local game store. It's really only a matter of time, before games get cheap.

4. In regards to lack of commitment. Luckily a lot of games have free demos nowadays, so you can try a game before you play it. And arguably, you shouldn't have to pay for that. Steam allows you to play and refund games within 2hours. So if you are really a budget oriented gamer like that, you should get a PC or Steam Deck. That gets you all or the benefits without having to pay a fee per month. Decent PC hardware is also a similar price to an Xbox Series X and S

I say this as someone who has been absolutely broke for a while. I can no longer afford full price games anymore, my gaming budget is basically $100 a year. I really thought Gamepass would have been perfect for me, but it really wasn't when I gravitated for a handful of games I could have purchased for $60 all together for the year. But the thing is, games have so much content in them, that's a handful of games, you can keep replaying them, and exploring them. It's amazing. It may work for some people.

But eventually when Gamepass prices go up, it's going to be budget oriented gamers that suffer the most if they go the Gamepass route. Because if you put that money towards a collection of cheaper games, you get to keep it. But if a budget gamer puts it into Gamepass, the moment it becomes unaffordable to them, or times get even tougher. Then they cannot play any games(except for free to play games).
 
EvilChameleon said:
I wonder how much more of this Nadella is going to put up with. Phil can't keep axing studios forever to keep his job, eventually the axe will have to be turned on him.
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It prolly will be. In time for a sequel sequel, Ready P3 (subtitle) Time's Up

And The Replacements, the unstable blend of personalities they were in the 80's, hash everything out and play their top 5 while Blinx's face flashes on a big projector. His glitchy ai generated face makes a joke about how lame people saying Microsoft got soft, then Spencer walks out with a raging controller and announces everything anyone ever wanted. And it was a dream.
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
Who's to say Nadella isn't over the moon about this news?
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Nadella might have been cool with today's news, but Phil still answers to him, and constantly giving Phil blank checks hasn't solved any of the Xbox Division's many ills.

At some point, Nadella will put his foot down. Especially as people will eventually want to see these multi-billion dollar acquisitions actually fulfill the promises Phil keeps making.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
Depends on how much of an active role Nadella has in this whole process.
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Mer.Saloon said:
Who's to say Nadella isn't over the moon about this news?
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He may very well be, but I'm sure Phil said to him "if we cut these studios, we can start to turn this ship around", so if they don't... Nadella is probably gonna go, alright, you're out Phil.
 
Hailinel said:
Nadella might have been cool with today's news, but Phil still answers to him, and constantly giving Phil blank checks hasn't solved any of the Xbox Division's many ills.

At some point, Nadella will put his foot down. Especially as people will eventually want to see these multi-billion dollar acquisitions actually fulfill the promises Phil keeps making.
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I think a lot of the recent changes we've been hearing about are a result of Nadella putting his foot down. Spencer's been mismanaging the Xbox division for a decade, and now it's time to right the ship, which may very well entail focusing on the core money making properties (bolstered by AB) and jettisoning everything else, including AA studios and even the console concept.
 
EvilChameleon said:
He may very well be, but I'm sure Phil said to him "if we cut these studios, we can start to turn this ship around", so if they don't... Nadella is probably gonna go, alright, you're out Phil.
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This doesn’t scream “righting the ship” to me. It feels like someone being directed to jettison anything that isn’t making them money in large degrees.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
This doesn’t scream “righting the ship” to me. It feels like someone being directed to jettison anything that isn’t making them money in large degrees.
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When your fuckup involves (or was caused by) taking too much on board to start with, jettisoning is unfortunately a fix. Not necessarily an effective one, but a fix.
 
Literally the least they could have done is given these studios a chance to actually release a game under Microsoft leadership. Which was the whole point of acquiring them. At least from the customers and the developers point of view.
 
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Thunder84 said:
While Xbox is at the top of my shitlist, I don't really agree with any of this.
  • Xbox games go on sale, that is true, but how many people out there are buying an Xbox specifically to buy Xbox games? PlayStation has access to a much larger library, with more guaranteed support.
  • Most indie games absolutely do not go on sale for less than $5, that's baloney.
  • Same with 3rd party games. Some do, most don't. And usually, the 3rd party games that are going for that cheap aren't exactly desirable anyway.
  • Additionally, you're ignoring the biggest benefit of Gamepass: the lack of commitment. If you buy a digital game that you don't like, you're shit out of luck. Gamepass let's you try games that you otherwise might have not risked spending money on, and you can go from there. The freedom of choice is incredibly freeing.
I don't think Gamepass is enough to keep me on Xbox if everything goes multiplatform, given that I do have the money to buy indies and other Gamepass games. But there is 100% a strong market for Gamepass that will benefit a lot of people. Reaching a point where Gamepass isn't a good deal for you is a luxury.
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First Sony was at the top of my shitlist, and then Microsoft joined them. The only reason I have an Xbox is to play a few select games with friends, and then it sits unused otherwise. I'm hoping that the next game in the borderlands franchise is crossplay so that I can just play it on PC - Steam and Proton saves me from having to even have Windows.
 
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