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We’re even haha
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Fun Club Would you buy a Switch remaster of Kid Icarus: Uprising?
- Thread starter Mekanos
- Start date
... Belt-san?
Here is for whoever else suddenly needed to know the backstory behind uh, Krim Steinbelt.
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Anyways I'd love to see it, the controls scared me away from the og 3ds release despite liking traditional Star Fox quite a lot. Such flair!
Sounds like it would be more Remake then Remaster tho.
Most importantly, and above all else, I would like to see Masahiro Sakurai working on a new video game that is not Smash Bros again. You know what, Star Fox would be an awesome landing spot for his talents (assuming the Ubisoft Starlink team aren't already crafting something).
It’s funny how gamers, as a demographic constantly misuse the word “objective” in discussion. Objectivity is about literal facts, yet people will keep misusing it when discussing the quality of games. Opinions on subjects such as game design or art in general are inherently subjective, but that doesn’t mean they are necessarily weak or poorly justified arguments. It just means that they come from the perspective of someone judging them, they are not facts. Sadly most people do not understand that and that is a notable obstacle to gaming discourse in general, as you have the kind of people who say stuff like “objectively good” who keep pushing their very reductive views on what gaming can or should be
Having said that, let’s look at control options for aiming in videogames. Aiming with an analog stick is literally the worst option available in terms of ergonomics and efficiency. You could say that it’s “objectively bad”. However, gamers will throw tantrums when alternative methods are introduced because something something gimmicks. I have no idea why people were so averse of moving something other than their thumbs with the Wii. Consoles have finally gotten a better aiming option available with pointer controls, yet the shooter audience has vehemently refused that. Some people will use arm cramps as an excuse, it’s not the game’s fault that you have terrible posture when playing it. Just have something to rest your arm on while playing.
This leads me finally to Kid Icarus Uprising’s aiming, which is essentially trackball aiming, the most effective of all. While it definitely cannot be played as a traditional handheld game, again just have a way to rest your arm and you should be fine. Sure, it can’t really be played in public transport or maybe even while lying on your bed but I had no problems at all playing through the whole thing on my couch. So no, I have no interest on a Switch remaster of this game not only because I already played it, but also because adapting it to more traditional controls would basically guarantee that the game would be a remake, not a remaster. The entire game was built around these controls, a rerelease would have to drastically change encounter design across the board. Just release a sequel at that point, Uprising is pretty standalone and its story was essentially a bunch of random cool things happening, we are already familiar with these characters via Smash as well. Just have a summary cutscene and it’s fine, the point is just to keep this series alive, which for those who don’t know is basically half rail shooter, half action game/TPS with a loot system for weapons
Having said that, let’s look at control options for aiming in videogames. Aiming with an analog stick is literally the worst option available in terms of ergonomics and efficiency. You could say that it’s “objectively bad”. However, gamers will throw tantrums when alternative methods are introduced because something something gimmicks. I have no idea why people were so averse of moving something other than their thumbs with the Wii. Consoles have finally gotten a better aiming option available with pointer controls, yet the shooter audience has vehemently refused that. Some people will use arm cramps as an excuse, it’s not the game’s fault that you have terrible posture when playing it. Just have something to rest your arm on while playing.
This leads me finally to Kid Icarus Uprising’s aiming, which is essentially trackball aiming, the most effective of all. While it definitely cannot be played as a traditional handheld game, again just have a way to rest your arm and you should be fine. Sure, it can’t really be played in public transport or maybe even while lying on your bed but I had no problems at all playing through the whole thing on my couch. So no, I have no interest on a Switch remaster of this game not only because I already played it, but also because adapting it to more traditional controls would basically guarantee that the game would be a remake, not a remaster. The entire game was built around these controls, a rerelease would have to drastically change encounter design across the board. Just release a sequel at that point, Uprising is pretty standalone and its story was essentially a bunch of random cool things happening, we are already familiar with these characters via Smash as well. Just have a summary cutscene and it’s fine, the point is just to keep this series alive, which for those who don’t know is basically half rail shooter, half action game/TPS with a loot system for weapons
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To be honest I’d be fine with a complete overhaul of the ground combat, as much as I love the game.
Ah, but there's no trackball. It really bad controls, especially if you're left handed.
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As much as it pains me to say it...I don't think Nintendo would find a remaster worth it? It's less risky than a new title, but out of the many ports Nintendo could do, it's one of the ones that would take the most work. Most 3DS ports require upscaled textures and the reworking of bottom screen features already, but most of them don't require rethinking the control scheme. And while Skyward Sword HD did have reworked controls, that was for Zelda, one of Nintendo's big franchises in its biggest period of growth. And if you're ending up with...
...then you basically got a remake, which still isn't as risky as a new game, but takes more work than a remaster. Perhaps they're better off making a new game tailored to that new ground combat rather than retrofitting the old levels and story? Maybe I'm just shooting for the moon here, and I'd still take more Kid Icarus, money making be damned.
Amusingly enough, Sakurai did consider making Kid Icarus: Uprising a Star Fox game earlier in development.
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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I never had the opportunity to play Uprising, as I never had the 3DS, but I have wanted to be able to since its release and would appreciate the chance to do so. As I've said elsewhere, I'm sure there are many people who never played it but would give it a chance -- especially given how many games seem to do especially well on Switch and especially given the new audience that will have filtered in to the market base over the past ten years.
Considering necessary changes to the controls, presentation, dual-screen nature, and so forth, this would would be an endeavor, which is, perhaps, why Sakurai doubted it would ever happen. I do think it would be worth it, though, to cement the game's legacy and accessibility (but I tend toward the idea of treating games as potential art and not as commodities to be tossed aside). As further games in the series build, perhaps, on foundations, themes and concepts, found within Uprising, it is good to have a clear line and ability to appreciate the whole picture.
And a part of all that includes the theoretical series continuation I'd mentioned. I do think Kid Icarus has the potential to be built into a major franchise for Nintendo, to ascend into the pantheon, as it were. And it seems likely the series would shift into different forms to accomplish this -- considering it's only appeared in this form once out of its three iterations, that doesn't sound unreasonable -- but that certainly doesn't mean this particular take on the franchise should be tossed aside.
The work needed to make Uprising truly shine on Switch is likely more than Nintendo will want to devote itself to, but it is mypersonal professional Supreme opinion that Uprising should be brought to Switch -- or the next hardware, should that present better opportunities for its controls -- and a new game, but taking a different perspective on the series, should be produced.
But it's interesting this is your setup, when it's followed by referring to a control option as "literally the worst" and suggesting it could be called "objectively bad" ... while talking about how "gamers" don't like anything else and suggesting if people have actual problems it must be because of their bad posture.
I can see where you're coming from, overall -- that bringing Uprising over would require certain concessions and you personally don't see any way of making those work --, but this stood out.
I don't expect any potential attempt to bring the game to Switch, or to what comes next, would try to map it to "traditional" controls. It's already well established that I haven't actually played this particular Kid Icarus game, but I have seen suggestions regarding use of gyro and flick stick. You mention pointer controls, which might also be useful, though I'm not sure whether the Switch can replicate those well enough or that would have to wait until further hardware improvements in that area.
Again, having not played the game myself, I can't add terribly much of substance to all that, but I don't find outright "traditional" controls are usually what people envision when they consider such a version of Uprising, and to suggest this is the only possibility seems a tad reductive.
As noted above, I wouldn't consider the series half rail shooter, half action with loot system after one game out of three went that route, and I would actually expect a new entry to veer at least somewhat into different territory. How different such a game might end up is entirely up in the air, but the series is in a position where it's currently not locked in to one correct genre or game design philosophy.
If the controls can be worked out, again, I think Uprising should be brought over, as I would still like to play it and am certain others would as well; regardless of whether such a task is feasible, Nintendo should put in the effort to grow the series, as it should lead to a plethora of great ideas and could grow to become one of their major franchises.
Considering necessary changes to the controls, presentation, dual-screen nature, and so forth, this would would be an endeavor, which is, perhaps, why Sakurai doubted it would ever happen. I do think it would be worth it, though, to cement the game's legacy and accessibility (but I tend toward the idea of treating games as potential art and not as commodities to be tossed aside). As further games in the series build, perhaps, on foundations, themes and concepts, found within Uprising, it is good to have a clear line and ability to appreciate the whole picture.
And a part of all that includes the theoretical series continuation I'd mentioned. I do think Kid Icarus has the potential to be built into a major franchise for Nintendo, to ascend into the pantheon, as it were. And it seems likely the series would shift into different forms to accomplish this -- considering it's only appeared in this form once out of its three iterations, that doesn't sound unreasonable -- but that certainly doesn't mean this particular take on the franchise should be tossed aside.
The work needed to make Uprising truly shine on Switch is likely more than Nintendo will want to devote itself to, but it is my
This is an interesting proposition considering Kid Icarus and Metroid were basically sister series. The concept has a level of promise though I really wish there weren't so many issues at MercurySteam and should come with no surprise that similar has been suggested before, with a bit added detail, also tied to development past:
Now, it would almost certainly be decidedly different from any Metroid project, for good reason, but it's an interesting possibility.
Nah, that's just people in general. "Objectively" is suffering the same fate as "literally," and it's not just at the hands of gamers.
But it's interesting this is your setup, when it's followed by referring to a control option as "literally the worst" and suggesting it could be called "objectively bad" ... while talking about how "gamers" don't like anything else and suggesting if people have actual problems it must be because of their bad posture.
I can see where you're coming from, overall -- that bringing Uprising over would require certain concessions and you personally don't see any way of making those work --, but this stood out.
I don't expect any potential attempt to bring the game to Switch, or to what comes next, would try to map it to "traditional" controls. It's already well established that I haven't actually played this particular Kid Icarus game, but I have seen suggestions regarding use of gyro and flick stick. You mention pointer controls, which might also be useful, though I'm not sure whether the Switch can replicate those well enough or that would have to wait until further hardware improvements in that area.
Again, having not played the game myself, I can't add terribly much of substance to all that, but I don't find outright "traditional" controls are usually what people envision when they consider such a version of Uprising, and to suggest this is the only possibility seems a tad reductive.
As noted above, I wouldn't consider the series half rail shooter, half action with loot system after one game out of three went that route, and I would actually expect a new entry to veer at least somewhat into different territory. How different such a game might end up is entirely up in the air, but the series is in a position where it's currently not locked in to one correct genre or game design philosophy.
If the controls can be worked out, again, I think Uprising should be brought over, as I would still like to play it and am certain others would as well; regardless of whether such a task is feasible, Nintendo should put in the effort to grow the series, as it should lead to a plethora of great ideas and could grow to become one of their major franchises.
Samurai Goro
Sushi Kamakaze Fujiyama Nippon-Ichi
So has anyone actually gone back, started a new save file, and really played this game recently?
I had some fond memories of my time with it, but last summer when I tried another trip through the game, it really sunk in how much KI:U relies on the characters and script to carry it.
There's a few clever gameplay twists peppered in here and there, but ultimately I found it to be a very mediocre game at it's core. Controls aside, the ground portions are just really dull, often go on too long, and mostly just throw a few different varieties of bullet sponges at the player to slaughter before repeating. It really stands out more when you're not really motivated to keep going forward for the story.
The progression system does help a touch in that typical RPG-lite "my weapon is so much more powerful now" type of way, and the presentation is nice enough for the system - but I really doubt anyone would be still talking about this game if those were the strongest points. Let's be honest, it's basically Hades.
Honestly, revisiting the game lowered it quite a bit from my memory and I'm pretty sure that if you removed the story and twists and voice acting, I probably would have never even remembered the game at all.
The story is definitely worth experiencing, and really is a fun time - but I'll never understand the push to label this as a genuine classic when that's the only thing it really excels in. It's a solid "7"-ish, maybe "8" game in my opinion with everything averaged in.
Oh, and I get that there will always be a continual debate about the controls, but for the record - I can only play the game a stage at a time before I need to rest my joints.
In my opinion, that has nothing to do with the stylus.
The crux of the problem is how active the thumb needs to be on the thumbpad, including flicks and careful gradients in a small area, while also requiring the L-trigger to be held down. It will take a rare individual to do that without some early-stage arthritis development.
I had some fond memories of my time with it, but last summer when I tried another trip through the game, it really sunk in how much KI:U relies on the characters and script to carry it.
There's a few clever gameplay twists peppered in here and there, but ultimately I found it to be a very mediocre game at it's core. Controls aside, the ground portions are just really dull, often go on too long, and mostly just throw a few different varieties of bullet sponges at the player to slaughter before repeating. It really stands out more when you're not really motivated to keep going forward for the story.
The progression system does help a touch in that typical RPG-lite "my weapon is so much more powerful now" type of way, and the presentation is nice enough for the system - but I really doubt anyone would be still talking about this game if those were the strongest points. Let's be honest, it's basically Hades.
Honestly, revisiting the game lowered it quite a bit from my memory and I'm pretty sure that if you removed the story and twists and voice acting, I probably would have never even remembered the game at all.
The story is definitely worth experiencing, and really is a fun time - but I'll never understand the push to label this as a genuine classic when that's the only thing it really excels in. It's a solid "7"-ish, maybe "8" game in my opinion with everything averaged in.
Oh, and I get that there will always be a continual debate about the controls, but for the record - I can only play the game a stage at a time before I need to rest my joints.
In my opinion, that has nothing to do with the stylus.
The crux of the problem is how active the thumb needs to be on the thumbpad, including flicks and careful gradients in a small area, while also requiring the L-trigger to be held down. It will take a rare individual to do that without some early-stage arthritis development.
On one hand I want it and every other 3DS game to live beyond the 3DS, on the other it’s a lot of work for something I’m not terribly attached to even though I loved it at the time. Maybe they could do a sequel/expanded version as part of the remake? I really want a sequel of some kind more than a port.
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I'd definitely buy it for the sake of supporting another Kid Icarus game gake but as far as playing it over the 3DS version, well I'm not too sure about that. I could see docked controls translating over ok if it went with maybe "Wii style" aiming using gyro disconnected from a right stick camera or even flick stick but it definitely wouldn't be quite as accurate as the original touchscreen trackball aiming. Playing in handheld mode though seems like it'd be a massive pain if you'd need to use gyro the whole time and if touch aiming is used you'd just be left with an even less comfortable version of the original. Honestly if there was going to be a Kid Icarus game on the Switch I'd rather it be a brand new game with controls designed around regular controllers and gyro rather than trying to tack them onto a game that just isn't designed for them.
My choice in words was kind of meant to be ironic there but it was still appropriate as analog sticks are factually not as efficient as a method of aiming than pretty much any other control option out there. You can look up studies about HMI so you can see where I’m coming from, I just felt like the complaints about the controls was systematically overblown by the same kind of people that complain about gimmicks or motion controls. While the game is understandably harder to play for left handed people, I think it was more an issue with the 3DS hardware lacking a second analog stick than with the game itself. Even then there are still numerous claims of left handed people playing through the game thanks to the New 3DS, Circle Pad Pro or other accessories.
As for your other points I just felt like it’s not worth it for them to give that game the Skyward Sword HD treatment simply because I think adapting the game for a new console would probably inherently require the game to be remade. I feel like Uprising’s encounter design was essentially balanced around the game’s controls, if they wanted to change them they might as well make a brand new game using those characters and that gameplay structure. I didn’t mean that the series was locked to that design philosophy either, I just think it would be more interesting if it explored that direction before something else since there aren’t really other games out there with Uprising’s structure. I remember before that game was announced, some people suggested that Kid Icarus could come back as basically Nintendo’s God of War without the smut. Either way I think going back to 2D would be the worst possible move for the series as it didn’t really stand out compared to the other side scrollers back then, it would be definitely harder for it to stand out today. It would probably get a reception similar to Hey! Pikmin’s announcement. A fully priced 3DS port would probably get weak reception as well besides from the people that didn’t play the game or couldn’t stand the controls. I think they should just make a new game instead, most Switch success stories have been with games that were built from the ground up for it
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Opening a can of worms here but the problem with Kid Icarus Uprising, as it is with some other DS/3DS/Wii/Wii U games, is that they have to put in the work eventually unless they're fine with these games just dying with their hardware. An emulated BC solution is going to work for some games but not all of them and I certainly don't expect them to Frankenstein a hardware solution with a second screen.
Is it worth the investment? I don't know. I'm firmly in the camp that wants a sequel but I also don't like games being potentially lost forever aside from some hacky PC emulation. Given how spotty Nintendo's track record has been in regards to legacy content this is a real concern.
Is it worth the investment? I don't know. I'm firmly in the camp that wants a sequel but I also don't like games being potentially lost forever aside from some hacky PC emulation. Given how spotty Nintendo's track record has been in regards to legacy content this is a real concern.
I'd LOVE to play this game with pointer controls on the TV.
One of my favorite games ever. Poured 200 hours in it and barely touched multiplayer. What a MASTAHPIECE
One of my favorite games ever. Poured 200 hours in it and barely touched multiplayer. What a MASTAHPIECE
romanithegreat
Piranha Plant
absolutely my most wanted 3ds remaster the talk of bad controls is what prevented me from getting it on the 3ds
Christo750
Source of the Right Arm
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Without a second thought.
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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As noted, I'm pretty sure I get where you're coming from. Mouse and keyboard, for instance, is generally considered the superior control method for shooters, and there's a reason for that.
I can't vouch for whether complaints here often come from those who would oppose different sorts of controls from what they consider the norm, or correct, way to handle those, though the 3DS audience seems like it could be less predisposed toward that sort of thinking, and I've certainly seen a number of people who played through and loved the game except that the controls didn't work for them -- and that can absolutely, in many or most cases, be down to preference.
But you're not wrong: Uprising was built for the hardware it released on, and its particular controls are a part of that. I'm not sure how a rework might be able to take care of different factors, or how much additional work that might require for other areas.
In the end, though, I basically fall into this general line of thought:
If the game is not to be lost to the whims of time, work will have to be put into it. I can only hope such work would turn out an excellent result.
To me, it makes sense that this be handled sooner rather than later, while Uprising still fits in with the major titles being brought over from previous hardware. The potential market has grown, with new people having filtered in over the past ten years, others, like me, having been interested but never had the chance to play, and so forth, in addition to the surprising numbers games often do on Switch.
But I understand this isn't an ubiquitous view, and people's takes on the situation might differ based on that.
D
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Where's the poll with "yes" as the only choice?
