HylianSeven
Cappy
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're probably thinking just by that thread title "This sure sounds familiar...", and you're right...and you know exactly where you read it. It was a success at that other place, and I think it will be one here too. I know these kinds of questions come up in most circles, and so far the explanation below has helped a lot of people answer them. Without further ado, onto the topic.
In threads about the soon to be released Shin Megami Tensei V, the question of "If I like Persona, will I like this?" comes up often. It's a totally fair and reasonable question, as the games share a lot of DNA. I figured it was worth making a thread to try to help anyone asking these kinds of questions determine if they should buy SMTV, and perhaps suggest other games as well.
I also want to emphasize that you don't have to follow all this advice if you don't want to. Do what you want! This is just a guide for those unsure or overwhelmed by the sheer number of games and spinoffs.
What is a Persona game?
Persona is a series more well known than Shin Megami Tensei these days. It was a spinoff game of the Megami Tensei franchise. In the mainline Shin Megami Tensei series, after SMT II, there was a game called Shin Megami Tensei if... It was an alternate scenario of SMT1 where the apocalypse part never happened. You're a high school student (and can even choose male or female!) and another student summons demons, and throws the school into an alternate dimension. You can choose one of the available students to ally with, and then the quest begins. You still negotiate, recruit, and fuse demons like in other SMT games, but you can also have "guardians" you summon to have the protagonist use skills. Some of this may sound familiar, because Persona actually spun off as a result of this game! The protagonist from this game actually appears in Persona 1 and 2.
Persona 1 had the Japanese title of "Megami Ibunroku Persona". The "Megami Ibunroku" branding was used on Devil Survivor 1 too. From Nocturne up through Persona 4, the games had the Shin Megami Tensei branding in the west. This was due to trying to make it recognizable, since up to that point, Nocturne released first. Before Nocturne, Persona 1 was localized as "Revelations: Persona", as well as Last Bible 1, a spinoff set in a medieval fantasy. Last Bible 1's localization was called "Revelations: The Demon Slayer". Persona 2 Innocent Sin's PS1 version was not localized, and Eternal Punishment didn't have the Revelations OR SMT branding on it.
Persona games take the concept of people wearing many masks (or Personas), and are often more driven by their characters. All of them have some kind of aspect where you can get to know the characters throughout the game. Persona 1 and 2 have frequent rooms in dungeons where you can talk to the rest of the cast. Persona 3, 4, and 5 have social links and the calendar. Characters can change Personas which gives them different sets of skills and changes their weaknesses and resistances. In P3/4/5, only the protagonist can do this.
Persona games generally don't have quite the apocalyptic events that SMT games do, and usually they revolve around a school.
The games have dungeon crawling, fusion, and the weakness exploiting based combat all in common with SMT. These elements have some differences, but they are similar concepts. The Persona games also use the same pool of demons drawn by Kazuma Kaneko as Personas. This is mainly due to budgetary restrictions, but it's been a long held tradition. Any Personas designed exclusively for the Persona series will stay that way. Some mythological entities have multiple designs by Kaneko, with one for Persona and another for SMT. The Personas often take a more mask-like appearance. Ever since Persona 3, Soejima does the artwork for any new Personas in the series.
Persona games will often have a story following a certain mythology, usually having the characters represent characters from that mythology story. For instance, in Persona 3, it's based on Greek Mythology. The protagonist's initial Persona is Orpheus, and other characters have Personas of that same mythology. Akihiko has Atlas, Koromaru has Cerberus, etc. Some certain villains wield Personas that are adversaries of those characters. The final boss battle does end up being a form of an actual Greek mythological entity.
What is a Shin Megami Tensei game?
SMT games have a more apocalyptic scenario and are more about taking a side to determine how the world would be rebuilt. They involve demons showing up, as well as recruitment and fusion of them. The combat involves exploiting weaknesses. They're more focused on the world rather than the characters, but there's still some great characters in the series.
SMT's gameplay loop does not have a calendar or social link or anything like that, it's more about going dungeon to dungeon, usually having a fairly large map to explore. SMTV in particular looks like it has exploration elements to it. You can probably compare it closely to the dungeons of Persona 5, but you aren't on the clock to complete them. SMT dungeons are hand-crafted, and has had some well known good ones, as well as ones that are often cited as a pain. The games aren't ALL serious all the time, as there's sometimes lighthearted jokes in them. They do deal with fairly serious topics about reshaping the world, and even emphasizing that none of the sides are necessarily objectively "good" or "evil".
Recruitment and fusion of demons plays a huge role in SMT. In Persona games, if you struggled on a boss, usually the first thing you did was go look at the protagonist's Personas and find a good one or two that would work for the boss. In SMT, you want to tailor your set of demons for a situation as you need them, and make sure not to have any dead weight! If a boss is weak to ice, every single demon should be using Bufu, otherwise they're fairly useless. This also includes covering the protagonist's weaknesses. In Nocturne, the protagonist has something called Magatama, which are a thing he can equip that are basically armor and weapons all rolled into one. They bestow skills, and change his weaknesses and resistances. In that game, you have to choose the correct Magatama that fits the situation.
I mentioned in Persona how it often has characters representing different figures, but in SMT it just straight up has those figures fighting each other in the game. In Shin Megami Tensei IV, you'll witness Scathach training Setanta to become Cu Chulainn, or you'll witness archangels fighting the armies of Lucifer. You'll often see either YHVH ("God", spelled that way because it's unpronounceable, and can also be interpreted to mean "Yahweh") or something in his stead fighting against Lucifer and his minions. YHVH himself has only actually been in two SMT games, but he is mentioned in some other ones.
Will I like SMT if I have only played Persona?
That depends on what you like about a Persona, but I do think you should give it a try! Regardless I'll go through a few things that people like about Persona.
If you liked Persona 1 or 2, you'll almost certainly like SMT! There's no real question of that!
If you liked the social link and character aspect, you may not like SMT. It doesn't really have that kind of thing.
If you loved the Persona designs, or the enemies in Persona 5, then I think you would like SMT. Most of the demons are from the brilliant mind of Kazuma Kaneko. While he is basically soft retired, his creations are still used in the series to this day, and his influence is felt.
If you liked the dungeons of Persona 3 and 4 you might like SMT, but SMT dungeons are not randomized.
If you like Persona 1, 2, or 5 dungeons, you will probably like SMT. The dungeons are often structured in a similar manner.
If you like the time limited calendar aspect, SMT does not have that.
If you like Persona 3, 4, and 5's combat, you'll definitely like SMT. It's different, but still involved some form of exploiting weaknesses to gain extra turns.
If you liked the endgame story arcs of Persona 3/4/5, you will probably like SMT. They have the apocalyptic elements of those endgame story arcs across the whole game. In SMTV you've probably seen in the footage that the protagonist gets taken to a ruined Tokyo, called Da'at, implied to be Tokyo after an apocalyptic event.
Will SMTV be a good place to start if I have never played any SMT game?
While it can't be said definitively until more people have played it, based on previews and footage presented so far, SMTV should definitely be a good place to start. There's a wide array of difficulty options, including "Safety" as free DLC, which is for players that just want to experience the story, easy, normal, and hard. The UI has things very clearly explained, as well as concise tutorials on mechanics introduced.
What other games should I give a try?
The entire Megami Tensei franchise has a ton of spinoff series, plenty untranslated, some fan translated, and many properly localized. One thing that's important is that much like Persona, unless the game is a direct sequel, you should be clear to play it on any order!
Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne HD Remaster came out earlier this year, and is considered by many (myself included) to be the best game in the series. Don't let the memes about Matador scare you, it's not a hard game, just one that requires you pay attention and use all the tools given to you. It's pretty straightforward with it's mechanics. While the remastered version kept the changes minimal, and some technical aspects took a small hit, all the gains it has made it the definitive version of the game. It's available on PS4 (or 5 with BC), Switch, and Steam. It's full price is a bit overpriced, but to me it was worth it. It has gone on sale a few times, and would be one to watch for the fall and winter Steam sales. The original version of the game is of course available as a PS2 disc, but also as a PS2 Classic on PS3, but this version has some minor technical issues.
Devil Survivor is a strategy RPG, more focused on characters, but having many hallmarks of SMT. A lot of people like to go from Persona to these games. The games are completely independent plot wise, but share similar gameplay. You can play them in any order! They are on DS and 3DS, but I recommend the 3DS versions as they're a straight upgrade, including extra content that doesn't interfere with the game's original storyline.
Digital Devil Saga are games really sold by their atmosphere, story, and characters. Gameplay is much like Nocturne. Instead of recruiting demons, your party members transform into them and learn skills on a system with some aspects of a skill tree called the Mantra system. There's really nothing quite like them. Important thing here is you DO need to play them in order. DDS2 is a direct sequel to DDS1, and you would be very confused starting with the second game. Many people consider them one long game broken into two parts, but you do start at level 1 in DDS2 and a story reason for that is given. I can't think of anyone that played these games and didn't like them. The original PS2 discs can be hard to find, but both games are available as PS2 Classics on PS3. They do have some emulation issues, but definitely look up how to use the secret emulation menu on the PS3 to mitigate some of this. I hope they do an HD Remaster of these one day, more people should discover these games. I played them for the first time this year and did LttP threads on both.
Persona 1 is a game I know many Persona fans have not played. I enjoyed it, but totally understand why many people do not. However I do recommend the Persona 2 duology. The games should be played in order. Innocent Sin is the first one, and a rather easy game, but with an excellent cast of characters. It's only English localization is the PSP version. Eternal Punishment is the second one, and my favorite Persona game. It's difficulty is right in the sweet spot between too easy and too hard. It's only English localization is the PS1 version, when Atlus only started doing faithful localizations. Some of the names are the Americanized names from the original Persona 1 localization. Eternal Punishment is available as a PS1 Classic on PS3 and PSP. The actual disc costs an arm and a leg, so good luck trying to track that down lol.
Shin Megami Tensei IV can also be a great place to start, or something to play after you play V. It is an excellent game that is pretty easy to get into, and especially for newcomers to the series, can provide a challenge. SMT IV Apocalypse is NOT the same game, and is actually a sequel to IV. Play IV first! IV Apocalypse goes a different direction with the storyline, incorporating unfortunate shonen anime tropes. However it's gameplay is top notch, and I think with that aspect alone, you'll probably have a good time with it.
There's many other games in the overarching franchise, some translated, many untranslated, so check out the ones that sound interesting to you. Ideally, I encourage everyone to check out Shin Megami Tensei V when it comes out. It's shaping up to be a good entry point in the franchise and an incredible game. Please let me know what other questions you want to see here that aren't mentioned above, and I'll add them to the OP!
In threads about the soon to be released Shin Megami Tensei V, the question of "If I like Persona, will I like this?" comes up often. It's a totally fair and reasonable question, as the games share a lot of DNA. I figured it was worth making a thread to try to help anyone asking these kinds of questions determine if they should buy SMTV, and perhaps suggest other games as well.
I also want to emphasize that you don't have to follow all this advice if you don't want to. Do what you want! This is just a guide for those unsure or overwhelmed by the sheer number of games and spinoffs.
What is a Persona game?
Persona is a series more well known than Shin Megami Tensei these days. It was a spinoff game of the Megami Tensei franchise. In the mainline Shin Megami Tensei series, after SMT II, there was a game called Shin Megami Tensei if... It was an alternate scenario of SMT1 where the apocalypse part never happened. You're a high school student (and can even choose male or female!) and another student summons demons, and throws the school into an alternate dimension. You can choose one of the available students to ally with, and then the quest begins. You still negotiate, recruit, and fuse demons like in other SMT games, but you can also have "guardians" you summon to have the protagonist use skills. Some of this may sound familiar, because Persona actually spun off as a result of this game! The protagonist from this game actually appears in Persona 1 and 2.
Persona 1 had the Japanese title of "Megami Ibunroku Persona". The "Megami Ibunroku" branding was used on Devil Survivor 1 too. From Nocturne up through Persona 4, the games had the Shin Megami Tensei branding in the west. This was due to trying to make it recognizable, since up to that point, Nocturne released first. Before Nocturne, Persona 1 was localized as "Revelations: Persona", as well as Last Bible 1, a spinoff set in a medieval fantasy. Last Bible 1's localization was called "Revelations: The Demon Slayer". Persona 2 Innocent Sin's PS1 version was not localized, and Eternal Punishment didn't have the Revelations OR SMT branding on it.
Persona games take the concept of people wearing many masks (or Personas), and are often more driven by their characters. All of them have some kind of aspect where you can get to know the characters throughout the game. Persona 1 and 2 have frequent rooms in dungeons where you can talk to the rest of the cast. Persona 3, 4, and 5 have social links and the calendar. Characters can change Personas which gives them different sets of skills and changes their weaknesses and resistances. In P3/4/5, only the protagonist can do this.
Persona games generally don't have quite the apocalyptic events that SMT games do, and usually they revolve around a school.
The games have dungeon crawling, fusion, and the weakness exploiting based combat all in common with SMT. These elements have some differences, but they are similar concepts. The Persona games also use the same pool of demons drawn by Kazuma Kaneko as Personas. This is mainly due to budgetary restrictions, but it's been a long held tradition. Any Personas designed exclusively for the Persona series will stay that way. Some mythological entities have multiple designs by Kaneko, with one for Persona and another for SMT. The Personas often take a more mask-like appearance. Ever since Persona 3, Soejima does the artwork for any new Personas in the series.
Persona games will often have a story following a certain mythology, usually having the characters represent characters from that mythology story. For instance, in Persona 3, it's based on Greek Mythology. The protagonist's initial Persona is Orpheus, and other characters have Personas of that same mythology. Akihiko has Atlas, Koromaru has Cerberus, etc. Some certain villains wield Personas that are adversaries of those characters. The final boss battle does end up being a form of an actual Greek mythological entity.
What is a Shin Megami Tensei game?
SMT games have a more apocalyptic scenario and are more about taking a side to determine how the world would be rebuilt. They involve demons showing up, as well as recruitment and fusion of them. The combat involves exploiting weaknesses. They're more focused on the world rather than the characters, but there's still some great characters in the series.
SMT's gameplay loop does not have a calendar or social link or anything like that, it's more about going dungeon to dungeon, usually having a fairly large map to explore. SMTV in particular looks like it has exploration elements to it. You can probably compare it closely to the dungeons of Persona 5, but you aren't on the clock to complete them. SMT dungeons are hand-crafted, and has had some well known good ones, as well as ones that are often cited as a pain. The games aren't ALL serious all the time, as there's sometimes lighthearted jokes in them. They do deal with fairly serious topics about reshaping the world, and even emphasizing that none of the sides are necessarily objectively "good" or "evil".
Recruitment and fusion of demons plays a huge role in SMT. In Persona games, if you struggled on a boss, usually the first thing you did was go look at the protagonist's Personas and find a good one or two that would work for the boss. In SMT, you want to tailor your set of demons for a situation as you need them, and make sure not to have any dead weight! If a boss is weak to ice, every single demon should be using Bufu, otherwise they're fairly useless. This also includes covering the protagonist's weaknesses. In Nocturne, the protagonist has something called Magatama, which are a thing he can equip that are basically armor and weapons all rolled into one. They bestow skills, and change his weaknesses and resistances. In that game, you have to choose the correct Magatama that fits the situation.
I mentioned in Persona how it often has characters representing different figures, but in SMT it just straight up has those figures fighting each other in the game. In Shin Megami Tensei IV, you'll witness Scathach training Setanta to become Cu Chulainn, or you'll witness archangels fighting the armies of Lucifer. You'll often see either YHVH ("God", spelled that way because it's unpronounceable, and can also be interpreted to mean "Yahweh") or something in his stead fighting against Lucifer and his minions. YHVH himself has only actually been in two SMT games, but he is mentioned in some other ones.
Will I like SMT if I have only played Persona?
That depends on what you like about a Persona, but I do think you should give it a try! Regardless I'll go through a few things that people like about Persona.
If you liked Persona 1 or 2, you'll almost certainly like SMT! There's no real question of that!
If you liked the social link and character aspect, you may not like SMT. It doesn't really have that kind of thing.
If you loved the Persona designs, or the enemies in Persona 5, then I think you would like SMT. Most of the demons are from the brilliant mind of Kazuma Kaneko. While he is basically soft retired, his creations are still used in the series to this day, and his influence is felt.
If you liked the dungeons of Persona 3 and 4 you might like SMT, but SMT dungeons are not randomized.
If you like Persona 1, 2, or 5 dungeons, you will probably like SMT. The dungeons are often structured in a similar manner.
If you like the time limited calendar aspect, SMT does not have that.
If you like Persona 3, 4, and 5's combat, you'll definitely like SMT. It's different, but still involved some form of exploiting weaknesses to gain extra turns.
If you liked the endgame story arcs of Persona 3/4/5, you will probably like SMT. They have the apocalyptic elements of those endgame story arcs across the whole game. In SMTV you've probably seen in the footage that the protagonist gets taken to a ruined Tokyo, called Da'at, implied to be Tokyo after an apocalyptic event.
Will SMTV be a good place to start if I have never played any SMT game?
While it can't be said definitively until more people have played it, based on previews and footage presented so far, SMTV should definitely be a good place to start. There's a wide array of difficulty options, including "Safety" as free DLC, which is for players that just want to experience the story, easy, normal, and hard. The UI has things very clearly explained, as well as concise tutorials on mechanics introduced.
What other games should I give a try?
The entire Megami Tensei franchise has a ton of spinoff series, plenty untranslated, some fan translated, and many properly localized. One thing that's important is that much like Persona, unless the game is a direct sequel, you should be clear to play it on any order!
Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne HD Remaster came out earlier this year, and is considered by many (myself included) to be the best game in the series. Don't let the memes about Matador scare you, it's not a hard game, just one that requires you pay attention and use all the tools given to you. It's pretty straightforward with it's mechanics. While the remastered version kept the changes minimal, and some technical aspects took a small hit, all the gains it has made it the definitive version of the game. It's available on PS4 (or 5 with BC), Switch, and Steam. It's full price is a bit overpriced, but to me it was worth it. It has gone on sale a few times, and would be one to watch for the fall and winter Steam sales. The original version of the game is of course available as a PS2 disc, but also as a PS2 Classic on PS3, but this version has some minor technical issues.
Devil Survivor is a strategy RPG, more focused on characters, but having many hallmarks of SMT. A lot of people like to go from Persona to these games. The games are completely independent plot wise, but share similar gameplay. You can play them in any order! They are on DS and 3DS, but I recommend the 3DS versions as they're a straight upgrade, including extra content that doesn't interfere with the game's original storyline.
Digital Devil Saga are games really sold by their atmosphere, story, and characters. Gameplay is much like Nocturne. Instead of recruiting demons, your party members transform into them and learn skills on a system with some aspects of a skill tree called the Mantra system. There's really nothing quite like them. Important thing here is you DO need to play them in order. DDS2 is a direct sequel to DDS1, and you would be very confused starting with the second game. Many people consider them one long game broken into two parts, but you do start at level 1 in DDS2 and a story reason for that is given. I can't think of anyone that played these games and didn't like them. The original PS2 discs can be hard to find, but both games are available as PS2 Classics on PS3. They do have some emulation issues, but definitely look up how to use the secret emulation menu on the PS3 to mitigate some of this. I hope they do an HD Remaster of these one day, more people should discover these games. I played them for the first time this year and did LttP threads on both.
Persona 1 is a game I know many Persona fans have not played. I enjoyed it, but totally understand why many people do not. However I do recommend the Persona 2 duology. The games should be played in order. Innocent Sin is the first one, and a rather easy game, but with an excellent cast of characters. It's only English localization is the PSP version. Eternal Punishment is the second one, and my favorite Persona game. It's difficulty is right in the sweet spot between too easy and too hard. It's only English localization is the PS1 version, when Atlus only started doing faithful localizations. Some of the names are the Americanized names from the original Persona 1 localization. Eternal Punishment is available as a PS1 Classic on PS3 and PSP. The actual disc costs an arm and a leg, so good luck trying to track that down lol.
Shin Megami Tensei IV can also be a great place to start, or something to play after you play V. It is an excellent game that is pretty easy to get into, and especially for newcomers to the series, can provide a challenge. SMT IV Apocalypse is NOT the same game, and is actually a sequel to IV. Play IV first! IV Apocalypse goes a different direction with the storyline, incorporating unfortunate shonen anime tropes. However it's gameplay is top notch, and I think with that aspect alone, you'll probably have a good time with it.
There's many other games in the overarching franchise, some translated, many untranslated, so check out the ones that sound interesting to you. Ideally, I encourage everyone to check out Shin Megami Tensei V when it comes out. It's shaping up to be a good entry point in the franchise and an incredible game. Please let me know what other questions you want to see here that aren't mentioned above, and I'll add them to the OP!
