• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
  • Furukawa Speaks! We discuss the announcement of the Nintendo Switch Successor and our June Direct Predictions on the new episode of the Famiboards Discussion Club! Check it out here!

Discussion Will AI Allow Anyone To Make Their Own Video Games In Time?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
I'm making an indie game for a lot less than $250000 and I'm not ripping off anyone so shrug
Click to expand...
Me too. I'm making an indie game I'm putting so much into and the budget is very low lol. Already has multiple demo releases too!

bellydrum said:
Also how did I miss this, yes, at absolutely is being driven on a script lol.

You're thinking it's a script that says "turn left, then slow down, then speed up and go straight".

No, it's a script that says "IF there's a car in front of you, THEN slow down, OR ELSE maintain this speed limit."

It knows there's a car in front of you because a camera is providing it a bunch of 1s and 0s, and the car knows which 1s and 0s to look for because of another script that says, "IF the 1s and 0s look like this, THEN it's a car".

What I'm describing is called conditional logic flow, and is not magic. It's not thinking, it's pachinko.
Click to expand...

Thisss so much. There's nothing special about this.
 
Machrider said:
Human beings don't have a monopoly on what counts as thought and thinking, I think that's going to be (hopefully not) a painful lesson for some folks in the next few decades.
Click to expand...
Yes, animals also think.

Machines do not, however, at least not for now. The "AI" models we are discussing here are nothing more than statistical models applied at a large scale. Chat-GPT doesn't think, it doesn't have a concept of meaning. It puts words after words to make textual content that is linguistically sensible based on the dataset of text it has been trained with.

An AI doesn't study anything in the way you are describing, it's just a process of fitting the parameters of a model to a large structured and well-defined dataset. You are not going to teach an AI to make games by showing it a Youtube video of Super Mario Bros.
 
Dcubed said:
The big issue here that some of you don't seem to understand is the prospect of "good enough".

Will an AI ever be able to surpass the creative power of the human mind? No, probably never. But will it be able to create something that's enough to fool 99% of the human population into thinking that it was made by a human? Yeah, and much sooner than you think. Most people do not understand art, do not care to understand art and do not appreciate art. This is why open world games have become so popular, while the art of level design has been whittled away and largely cast aside outside of the indie game development space.

Do you really think that a game like Fortnite has any real creative value in it? I'd certainly argue no. But does that stop it from being amongst the most popular games in the world today? Certainly not.

It's generic games like Fortnite, COD and Diablo that will truly benefit the most from AI art and code generation, not 3D platformers like Mario.
Click to expand...

I feel admitting you think open-world games don't require level design and that Fortnite has no "creative value" really just underlines how little you know or appreciate what goes into game design.

If only these people would learn after NFTs. I can only take so much "yes, but... what if?" pontificating before Considering The Unalive Option
 
juuso said:
Yes, animals also think.

Machines do not, however, at least not for now. The "AI" models we are discussing here are nothing more than statistical models applied at a large scale. Chat-GPT doesn't think, it doesn't have a concept of meaning. It puts words after words to make textual content that is linguistically sensible based on the dataset of text it has been trained with.

An AI doesn't study anything in the way you are describing, it's just a process of fitting the parameters of a model to a large structured and well-defined dataset. You are not going to teach an AI to make games by showing it a Youtube video of Super Mario Bros.
Click to expand...

Then shouldn't an AI not be able to for example make a website on its own?

I don't even know if "thought" is the appropriate term, but I also wonder if it even matters.

Like in this instance the AI was able to study (or whatever term you want to use) a website template and then make a similar kind of website but unique to what the creator wanted.



Are you 1000% positive no AI will be able to watch a video of Super Mario Bros. and understand when you say "hey I would like a character that runs and jumps like Mario in Super Mario Bros?". Because I wouldn't be. I think that's going to happen, whether it needs a video source clip or a piece of code to reference to understand what you mean when you ask for Mario in Super Mario Bros., I don't know specifically (or maybe it will take something from everything described).
 
bellydrum said:
What I'm describing is called conditional logic flow, and is not magic. It's not thinking, it's pachinko
Click to expand...
Can I just say that pachinko is an absolutely perfect descriptor for what-if-then logic

Machrider said:
how AI might allow people who can't code and don't have $250,000 sitting around to finance an indie game project even if they could code to be able to make games and what the implications of that might be
Click to expand...
Well we ARE talking about how AI will help with game development. But we’re discussing what is plausible, not what are, at this point, complete fantasy scenarios.

Dcubed said:
Do you really think that a game like Fortnite has any real creative value in it? I'd certainly argue no. But does that stop it from being amongst the most popular games in the world today? Certainly not.

It's generic games like Fortnite, COD and Diablo that will truly benefit the most from AI art and code generation, not 3D platformers like Mario
Click to expand...
Actually yes, Fortnite, Call of Duty and Diablo all have creative value and it is frankly insulting to those devs to imply that they don’t.

Machrider said:
Are you 1000% positive no AI will be able to watch a video of Super Mario Bros. and understand when you say "hey I would like a character that runs and jumps like Mario in Super Mario Bros?"
Click to expand...
1000% positive AI would not be able to do this for the next 10-15 years. To think otherwise means you really don’t have an idea of how AI actually works
 
bellydrum said:
I feel admitting you think open-world games don't require level design and that Fortnite has no "creative value" really just underlines how little you know or appreciate what goes into game design.

If only these people would learn after NFTs. I can only take so much "yes, but... what if?" pontificating before Considering The Unalive Option
Click to expand...

I don't think NFTs are a tangiable comparable. For starters like most people don't have a practical use for NFTs or cryptocurrencies to begin with. Who is this crowd that is running black market arms or some shit and can't use their regular bank account to pay for stuff? Why do I need crypto currency other than it was hyped as an investment portfolio play? But what's the practical use of it for an average person? Nothing for 99.9% of Joe Average Public.

AI is different. It's impact will be more akin to the internet, maybe even larger, there are more practical uses that it brings to the table.
 
Machrider said:
Then shouldn't an AI not be able to for example make a website on its own?

I don't even know if "thought" is the appropriate term, but I also wonder if it even matters.

Like in this instance the AI was able to study (or whatever term you want to use) a website template and then make a similar kind of website but unique to what the creator wanted.



Are you 1000% positive no AI will be able to watch a video of Super Mario Bros. and understand when you say "hey I would like a character that runs and jumps like Mario in Super Mario Bros?". Because I wouldn't be. I think that's going to happen, whether it needs a video source clip or a piece of code to reference to understand what you mean when you ask for Mario in Super Mario Bros., I don't know specifically (or maybe it will take something from everything described).
Click to expand...


I think you should get the point by now that a lot of experienced and educated people in this thread are telling you that, no, they don't believe that will happen.
 
These pro-AI posts make me fear that God is a chef and he's thrown us into a great pot
 
Machrider said:
I don't think NFTs are a tangiable comparable. For starters like most people don't have a practical use for NFTs or cryptocurrencies to begin with. Who is this crowd that is running black market arms or some shit? Why do I need crypto currency other than it was hyped as an investment portfolio play? But what's the practical use of it for an average person? Nothing for 99.9% of Joe Average Public.

AI is different. It's impact will be more akin to the internet, maybe even larger, there are more practical uses that it brings to the table.
Click to expand...
No, the comparison I'm drawing with NFTs is the cult of uneducated "what-if"ers obsessed with it that had no regard for reality.
 
bellydrum said:
Art made by AI is appreciated by people who don't understand art. AI doesn't make art. AI makes images based on works from artists.

"AI art" is appreciated by people who only see "just two clocks on a blank wall, that's stupid" instead of seeing the pain of someone who is grappling with the fact that one day, they or their loved one will die leaving the other to go on alone.

AI doesn't understand that, because it doesn't "feel". It can sufficiently simulate feeling to someone with an extremely rudimentary grasp on humanity.

Coding is not an art, it's a trade. It doesn't require creative thinking, it's simply piping and infrastructure that can be automated.

It's design and story and expression that requires a human touch. Sure, maybe AI could be behind the building blocks of video game creation, but the stuff you're talking about in the OP is fantasy coming from someone who can't discern AI from magic.
Click to expand...
Populistic, idealistic argumentation.

I was using art in the literal sense, not phylosophical.
 
Machrider said:
For starters like most people don't have a practical use for NFTs
Click to expand...
NFTs absolutely could have a practical use. Imagine, for example, being able to really own a digital copy of a video game. Of course, corporations don’t like that. And NFTs have been misused for crypto shenanigans.

(I still don’t endorse NFTs because of their downright gross environmental impact)

Machrider said:
Cool. Other people in this thread disagree, see the first two pages for example.
Click to expand...
They’re saying something different to what you’re saying, though. They’re using AI to generate art and code for specific parameters, it’s not something that would logically evolve into making games wholesale from a few simple prompts.
 
Bakuboy said:
I was using art in the literal sense, not phylosophical.
Click to expand...

No, I was talking about art in the literal sense. You were talking about images.

43562DA6-209A-4107-9C65-FB364DD0F332.jpeg
 
bellydrum said:
No, the comparison I'm drawing with NFTs is the cult of uneducated "what-if"ers obsessed with it that had no regard for reality.
Click to expand...

It isn't purely just based on "what ifs" because the technology is already showing it can do things like code and create a website, created animation, in a very primitive beta state. Or heck drive a car in real traffic. Or assist in code-free game design ... like it's literally doing these things today. It's less "what if" and more "well ... OK ... now what?"

I guess the argument is people who believe that's all she wrote and it'll just top out there and never go much further past that.

I don't think we have to label anyone who thinks there is potential far beyond that as some kind of crazy person.

I do think this is going to be in time a profound game changer for society, in ways positive and negative (just like say the ... internet).
 
Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
I'm making an indie game for a lot less than $250000 and I'm not ripping off anyone so shrug

We've all extensively explained why we disagree with you so I don't know what you want.
Click to expand...

MondoMega said:
Ah so you’re just a moron; already figured that much but I appreciate the additional confirmation.

If you want to make an argument about thinking outside the box i’d recommend not citing a man born into riches with zero original thoughts or inventions to his name.
Click to expand...
Is it allowed to insult others here?

You are also using falacies and attacking the idea, the AI should be regulated, which is obvious, just because it's from Elon Musk. You're being completely unreasonable.
 
Bakuboy said:
Is it allowed to insult others here?

You are also using falacies and attacking the idea, the AI should be regulated, which is obvious, just because it's from Elon Musk. You're being completely unreasonable.
Click to expand...
I think people who cite musk deserve to be insulted far worse than what i said.
 
Machrider said:
Are you 1000% positive no AI will be able to watch a video of Super Mario Bros. and understand when you say "hey I would like a character that runs and jumps like Mario in Super Mario Bros?". Because I wouldn't be. I think that's going to happen, whether it needs a video source clip or a piece of code to reference to understand what you mean when you ask for Mario in Super Mario Bros., I don't know specifically (or maybe it will take something from everything described).
Click to expand...
If the peak of your creativity is "make me a clone of Mario" then you don't really have much chance in the industry and AI won't help with that lol.
 
Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
I think people who cite musk deserve to be insulted far worse than what i said.
Click to expand...
The world would be lost if you were in charge. How many bad people have popularized concepts that we use. We have to separate the author from the work.

You are using falacies, populistic argumentation, you can't defend your standpoint with reasonable argumentation, and start to get aggressive.
 
Bakuboy said:
The world would be lost if you were in charge. How many bad people have popularized concepts that we use. We have to separate the author from the work.

You are using falacies, populistic argumentation, you can't defend your standpoint with reasonable argumentation, and start to get aggressive.
Click to expand...

The future if Elon Musk didn't exist

images
 
BGBW said:
If the peak of your creativity is "make me a clone of Mario" then you don't really have much chance in the industry and AI won't help with that lol.
Click to expand...

Everybody starts some where. Michael Jordan didn't start dunking the basketball, he started struggling to lay up the basketball from a foot in front of the hoop ... just like every other kid his age.

Where any one goes and how they iterate, that's up to someone's imagination and the tools they have available to express that imagination.

James Cameron started his film career making shitty Roger Corman B-movies that had plots barely above a porno film, today he's the biggest director in Hollywood for the better part of like 3 decades now.

Where you start doesn't matter.
 
Machrider said:
Everybody starts some where. Michael Jordan didn't start dunking the basketball, he started struggling to lay up the basketball from a foot in front of the hoop ... just like every other kid his age.

Where any one goes and how they iterate, that's up to someone's imagination and the tools they have available to express that imagination.

James Cameron started his film career making shitty Roger Corman B-movies that had plots barely above a porno film, today he's the biggest director in Hollywood for the better part of like 3 decades now.

Where you start doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Okay, this Roger Corman slander won't stand. Further cementing you have no idea about what you're talking about.
 
I'm showing incessant, unrelenting, and aggressive ignorance. Why are people getting aggressive at me?
 
Machrider said:
James Cameron started his film career making shitty Roger Corman B-movies that had plots barely above a porno film, today he's the biggest director in Hollywood for the better part of like 3 decades now.
Click to expand...

A Bucket of Blood is better than ANYTHING Cameron's made
 
Machrider said:
Everybody starts some where. Michael Jordan didn't start dunking the basketball, he started struggling to lay up the basketball from a foot in front of the hoop ... just like every other kid his age.

Where any one goes and how they iterate, that's up to someone's imagination and the tools they have available to express that imagination.

James Cameron started his film career making shitty Roger Corman B-movies that had plots barely above a porno film, today he's the biggest director in Hollywood for the better part of like 3 decades now.

Where you start doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Is your point that AI assisted Michael Jordan and James Cameron? Because I thought it was a lifetime of blood sweat and tears.

Are you trolling?
 
Machrider said:
the technology is already showing it can do things like code and create a website, created animation, in a very primitive beta state. Or heck drive a car in real traffic. Or assist in code-free game design ... like it's literally doing these things today. It's less "what if" and more "well ... OK ... now what?"
Click to expand...
Yeah but those are VERY different from an AI watching a Youtube video of Super Mario Bros and being able to create Mario. Like, please at least learn some fundamentals on how AI learning works.

Also people are getting a bit too heated, you gotta walk away from the thread
 
bellydrum said:
I'm showing incessant, unrelenting, and aggressive ignorance. Why are people getting aggressive at me?
Click to expand...
Wow, really disappointing to see an admin (?) justifying insults here.

In case you are being passive aggressive towards me, I never insulted anyone. I just countered their argumentation in a formal way, instead of demonizing others for their opinions, using falacies and populistic argumentation.
 
Bakuboy said:
Wow, really disappointing to see an admin (?) justifying insults here.

In case you are being passive aggressive towards me, I never insulted anyone. I just countered their argumentation in a formal way, instead of demonizing others for their opinions, using falacies and populistic argumentation.
Click to expand...
What being in debate club does to an mf
Don't use opinions like its some neutral thing, or a shield to hide behind, some opinions are bad
 
bellydrum said:
Is your point that AI assisted Michael Jordan and James Cameron? Because I thought it was a lifetime of blood sweat and tears.

Are you trolling?
Click to expand...

My point is there's nothing wrong with starting off learning the ropes of game development by making a Mario clone. If anything all this bruhahah over game design, yeah maybe sit your ass down and go back to the basics, the original Super Mario Bros. still has rock solid game design. That's not a bad place to start.

AI removing coding from the equation and letting someone create a game could allow someone to create something interesting and new who might otherwise not be able to make a game.

And certainly James Cameron at the very least did benefit from technology developing otherwise he wouldn't have been able to make Titanic and Avatar or even Terminator 2 to the level that he saw in his mind.
 
Machrider said:
My point is there's nothing wrong with starting off learning the ropes of game development by making a Mario clone. If anything all this bruhahah over game design, yeah maybe sit your ass down and go back to the basics, the original Super Mario Bros. still has rock solid game design. That's not a bad place to start.
Click to expand...
Okay, yeah, that is a good way to learn programming and game design basics. Don't see what that has to do with ai.
 
Machrider said:
Everybody starts some where. Michael Jordan didn't start dunking the basketball, he started struggling to lay up the basketball from a foot in front of the hoop ... just like every other kid his age.

Where any one goes and how they iterate, that's up to someone's imagination and the tools they have available to express that imagination.

James Cameron started his film career making shitty Roger Corman B-movies that had plots barely above a porno film, today he's the biggest director in Hollywood for the better part of like 3 decades now.

Where you start doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Oh, if you used Mario as a template to learn things such as level design that's perfectly fine. A lot of programmers start off making clones of basic games like Pong to learn the ropes. But we're not doing that with AI. We're just asking it to make things for us and hope that cobbling it together is good enough. All your examples are of someone learning and developing their own skill and appreciating what goes into that. If you just pumped out Mario levels with an AI would you understand what made a level good? Would you develop the skill to curate that output and pick the best ones? Nintendo themselves have spent decades perfecting what they consider the art of a good Mario level so good luck learning that putting zero work in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Back
Top Bottom