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Discussion Using anime clips on YouTube could now get your channel deleted (not hyperbole).

Oscillator

Oscillator

Moblin



Brief summary: Suede, a YouTuber who's been making a living reviewing every episode of Pokémon from the beginning, is about to get his channel deleted thanks to a legal technique used by the Japanese production company, ShoPro, that bypasses all protections YouTube has in place and has no way of being stopped. This sets a precedent, as all prior takedowns of anime footage on YouTube have used YouTube's own copyright claim system, which allows a defense under U.S. Fair Use law.

WAY more context/details in the video and on Suede's Twitter.
 
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Japanese production companies are so weirdly anal about anything that can even just remotely be considered "piracy" or just straight-up seem to hate people from outside of Japan buying or being interested in their stuff.
 
sir_AnGer said:
Japanese production companies are so weirdly anal about anything that can even just remotely be considered "piracy" or just straight-up seem to hate people from outside of Japan buying or being interested in their stuff.
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cries in tokusatsu
 
As someone who follows the Pokémon anime community pretty closely I can confirm this is a pretty common occurence with ShoPro. It really sucks :(
 
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sir_AnGer said:
Japanese production companies are so weirdly anal about anything that can even just remotely be considered "piracy" or just straight-up seem to hate people from outside of Japan buying or being interested in their stuff.
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The first large region locked 4k Blu-ray, a region free format, happened to be an anime owned by a Japanese company... So I'm pretty sure this is the case.
 
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randomengine said:
Not a joke. Youtube is a plague. Never liked the idea of people making money from the platform, worse still by using copyrighted content.
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People have been reviewing and making money off of copyrighted content like films and books since before YouTube was a thing. Not to mention it all falls under fair use, which lets people sample copyrighted work provided they use it in a transformative or educational manner (which is what this person was doing with his reviews of the Pokémon anime series). If you don't want YouTubers "making money off of other people's content", then you should also be against any review/discussion websites, magazines, and TV shows as well.

So please, actually research the facts on our legal system before you go calling things a "plague" because you don't personally like it.
 
You can write a review that doesn’t show the content or spoil it. Most reviews show too much.

A fair review would be like a podcast where people talk about a game and don’t show the game or spoil the story. Just give impressions without using the copyrighted material.

So for anime. Talk about the anime. Don’t show the anime.
 
randomengine said:
You can write a review that doesn’t show the content or spoil it. Most reviews show too much.

A fair review would be like a podcast where people talk about a game and don’t show the game or spoil the story. Just give impressions without using the copyrighted material.

So for anime. Talk about the anime. Don’t show the anime.
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That's absurd. If I'm watching a review I'm gonna wanna see some clips to show what their talking about (especially for a decades old thing like Pokémon where I've probbaly already seen the show/episodes). As a video editor myself using footage of what you're talking about is a basic way of keeping people's attention audio-visual wise. Heck, even the news does this when they report on events.
 
TheMindOfThomas said:
That's absurd. If I'm watching a review I'm gonna wanna see some clips to show what their talking about (especially for a decades old thing like Pokémon where I've probbaly already seen the show/episodes). As a video editor myself using footage of what you're talking about is a basic way of keeping people's attention audio-visual wise. Heck, even the news does this when they report on events.
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You do realize that images they use in the news has to be produced by them or they have to get explicit permission in order to use it, right?
 
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/...rk,purpose of encouraging creative expression.

"Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work."

"Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair."

You combine profit-based activities with creative works and I don't see claims of fair use being persuasive. Fair use shouldn't be used as a cudgel to push for profit-driven efforts. You want to profit from someone else's works? You shouldn't be able to use the explicit materials.
 
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FWIW, I doubt what Suede was doing would count as Fair Use anywhere. Each of his reviews summarized the entire episode with constant use of footage. He admits that he was pushing the envelope with this format.

The thing is, this could affect YouTubers who use even small amounts of anime footage.
 
Oscillator said:
FWIW, I doubt what Suede was doing would count as Fair Use anywhere. Each of his reviews summarized the entire episode with constant use of footage. He admits that he was pushing the envelope with this format.

The thing is, this could affect YouTubers who use even small amounts of anime footage.
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ad4e5bc8-61c7-4172-96e3-05002a56a0b7_text.gif
 
randomengine said:
ad4e5bc8-61c7-4172-96e3-05002a56a0b7_text.gif
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Off topic but this is the first time I see anyone using a Crazy Rich Asian GIF and now I want to visit a good hawker center after the chinese New Year.

Also a lot of these review basically are like commentary over the original contents with little edits. Not surprised why they are targeted.
 
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Reviews would honestly be much better if they didn't even tell you the name of the show or episode, make the viewer figure it out by themselves.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
Reviews would honestly be much better if they didn't even tell you the name of the show or episode, make the viewer figure it out by themselves.
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I like my reviews, without even a single word. Just consume and always think of those poor media companies.
Don't even try to talk about any medium or use it to decribe and explain something to the audience. The audience that wants to hear about it.
No shots of a film to talk about color usage, no scene from an Anime to undermine your points about the animation quality, heck no photos
of any given game to show the artstyle or explain certain mechanics. Nothing. Just buy
 
Japan really just doesn't understand the Disney concept of if you support, adapt and become the culture that's where the money is. Because now your not talking about monthly or yearly sales, your talking lifetime profit.

Doing this stuff just hurts Pokemon's culture and makes fans upset. There's no point of overusing your powers to remove the videos, Youtube would eventually see the lawsuit, not want to deal with it. And turn them back on, then tell the Japanese production not to stretch their reach in terms of US law. And not even get a slap of the wrists or their powers taken away, even momentarily. And they will do it again in the future....
 
Hot take: copyright law is extremely overrated, as long as people don't make money off of it making content using other people's characters and ideas should be fair game.
 
Magic-Man said:
Hot take: copyright law is extremely overrated, as long as people don't make money off of it making content using other people's characters and ideas should be fair game.
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Further hot takes:

Even monopoly on profit should last at most the original 15 years not this life + 70 bullshit

And society can be organised in such a way that copyright isn't necessary at all
 
Illucio said:
Japan really just doesn't understand the Disney concept of if you support, adapt and become the culture that's where the money is. Because now your not talking about monthly or yearly sales, your talking lifetime profit.

Doing this stuff just hurts Pokemon's culture and makes fans upset. There's no point of overusing your powers to remove the videos, Youtube would eventually see the lawsuit, not want to deal with it. And turn them back on, then tell the Japanese production not to stretch their reach in terms of US law. And not even get a slap of the wrists or their powers taken away, even momentarily. And they will do it again in the future....
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the pokemon company actually knows what it's doing and how to go about ensuring the continued lifelong success of the franchise, and how to make a ton of money.
 
YouTube's copyright system, and YouTube as a whole, is a mess, and the people running it are incompetent.

The ONLY reason anyone still uses YouTube at this point is because there's no real alternative.
 
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CastletonSnob said:
YouTube's copyright system, and YouTube as a whole, is a mess, and the people running it are incompetent.

The ONLY reason anyone still uses YouTube at this point is because there's no real alternative.
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This has literally nothing to do with YouTube though.

Well, it does have in the sense that YouTube apparently doesn't have effective geoblocking options for normal users, but other than that this is merely YouTube complying with the law. No other legit business would act differently.
 
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Stuff like this is why Kpop producers are showering in money, at least they know how to do capitalism right
 
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sir_AnGer said:
Japanese production companies are so weirdly anal about anything that can even just remotely be considered "piracy" or just straight-up seem to hate people from outside of Japan buying or being interested in their stuff.
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From what I understand, Japanese copyright laws are VERY different from most other countries.
 
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Something to note regarding Japanese copyright law: A couple years ago, there was to be a revision of copyright law that ended up falling through more-or-less and during the initial revisions, it would make basic screenshots illegal. I'm not even joking. Thankfully this got so much blowback that it was effectively killed/removed, but it just shows you how backwards and in some ways, how significantly more backwards Japanese copyright law could have potentially gone or has gone.

It's a mess.

Beyond just lack of fair use, there's the issue Japanese have to be super careful about violating defamation of character laws. Gintama had several episodes reworked in Japan (initially removed from circulation) because of this, though overseas versions are left as is, all due to parody/making fun of a politician.

Japan really, really, needs a lot of revisions to the copyright laws, as well as fair use and parody laws actually introduced. I feel a lot of this stems from the fact Japan didn't really have any anti-piracy laws up until the 2000s or so, and they went extremely heavy on it due to a combination of how piracy affected the industry locally and overseas. Even to this day, they're going further down draconian levels.
 
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crepuscule said:
Further hot takes:

Even monopoly on profit should last at most the original 15 years not this life + 70 bullshit

And society can be organised in such a way that copyright isn't necessary at all
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No thank you.

Too many people arguing against copyright do so from a utopian perspective of how great it would all be for everyone to share art with each other.

In reality, there are a huge number of bad faith organisations and individuals who act as predators, looking to exploit copyright for financial gain; Companies that sell unlicensed merchandise of characters they don't own, companies that sell knock off media as a way to profit off more popular characters and IP, etc.

If you change the law so that artists can only own the copyright to their own works for 15 years, you will make it so that those same bad faith organisations can step in and use those same tactics more prominently to strong arm profits away from artists while they are still alive. Any changes to copyright shouldn't be made on the basis of what is hypothetically possible in a utopia, but on the real world basis of what prevents bad faith and amoral companies and individuals from ripping off artists, writers, musicians, etc.
 
JazzPotatoes said:
In reality, there are a huge number of bad faith organisations and individuals who act as predators, looking to exploit copyright for financial gain; Companies that sell unlicensed merchandise of characters they don't own, companies that sell knock off media as a way to profit off more popular characters and IP, etc.

If you change the law so that artists can only own the copyright to their own works for 15 years, you will make it so that those same bad faith organisations can step in and use those same tactics more prominently to strong arm profits away from artists while they are still alive. Any changes to copyright shouldn't be made on the basis of what is hypothetically possible in a utopia, but on the real world basis of what prevents bad faith and amoral companies and individuals from ripping off artists, writers, musicians, etc.
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Case in point: Look at all the bullshit thievery going on with NFTs.

A world just without copyright is a fantasy because there are far too many people who will immediately jump at any chance to enrich themselves at others expense.
 
What would even be the point of YouTube if I can’t spend hours on end watching AMV’s set to Linkin Park?
 
Mazzle said:
Yeah let us just straight out ban every review, every documentation and reportage ever, unless someone or something is okay with the content in it.
Jesus fucking christ
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The world he is envisioning is a world where, for instance, CDProjectRed could have gone ten times further with the Cyberpunk 2077 fiasco. It was bad enough that the game's broken state at launch was obscured by the embargo on recorded footage CDPRed arranged with everyone that received a pre-releases copy of the game. Now imagine if they had free reign to completely shut down any reviewer making a cent off their profession from showing footage that wasn't pre-approved. Imagine if they STILL did. Imagine if EVERY scummy game corp did, from Take-Two to Ubisoft to Activision/Blizzard.

This would be a massive clusterfuck in so many ways, and would inherently benefit corporations more than anyone else, by a wide margin. You'd be essentially telling any youtuber, twitch streamer, etc, who didn't want to be PR spokespeople for the companies who published the games they're playing, to "get a real job." Because let's be clear here: these forms of media wouldn't go away. They'd just become even more soulless and corporate than they already often are. We'd still have all the blatant shills, and none of the honest critics or independent creatives. Absolute goddamn nightmare.
 
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randomengine said:
Oh thank God. I am tired of youtubers in general and anyone using other people's content in order to make money.
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So much for the idea Fair use. It is in the public's interest to be able to make criticism. And this is recognized by the law in the US. I would even say it's in the public's interest to be allowed to make derivative works too. Though that is not actually allowed.
 
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Copyright is like enclosure laws but for our mind. There was a time before copyright existed and weirdly enough people still made music and works of art and plays. These laws were made by dinosaurs who refuse to update them to align with the social norms of how we consume media. They just want to protect the property rights of people who already own property and shut down anyone who wants to make new stuff that happens to borrow from the old. They've extended copyright to such a length that no one can make anything new out of anything that's still relevant. The recognition of this forever copyright is theft from the public.
 
CastletonSnob said:
YouTube's copyright system, and YouTube as a whole, is a mess, and the people running it are incompetent.

The ONLY reason anyone still uses YouTube at this point is because there's no real alternative.
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They're basically forced to. YouTube isn't broken, the world is broken.
 
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crepuscule said:
Further hot takes:

Even monopoly on profit should last at most the original 15 years not this life + 70 bullshit

And society can be organised in such a way that copyright isn't necessary at all
Click to expand...

No thank you. While I do agree there is some abuse happening fair use on YT, no thanks to that.

I myself am not published, and currently work in something other than my field, but would love to one day be published and make a living off of it. If one day I am fortunate enough to get published, no, I don’t want my work to only be mine for profit for 15 years. Fuck that. I want life, plus a certain amount after that for my daughter and wife if she outlives me.
 
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Army of Light said:
Copyright is like enclosure laws but for our mind. There was a time before copyright existed and weirdly enough people still made music and works of art and plays.
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And weirdly enough, those artists had to rely on the backing of wealthy patreons, which is an even worse system than what we have now.

If your alternative model to copyright is to go back to the days energy artists literally had to be sponsored by the church, the crown or be destitute, then that's really not much of an alternative is it.
 
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