Discussion The misinformation about the Fatal Frame IP ownership

[CyberWolfBia]

Hey so.. I got to a little back and forward with someone on Twitter about the ownership of the Fatal Frame IP (it all started because of Dragalia Lost, believe it or not lol); And it's weird that we have this misconception that Nintendo co-owns the IP with Koei Tecmo, when it's pretty much the Bayonetta situation (a SEGA IP), whereas Nintendo has control over the games they funded and published, and only that.. including Fatal Frame 5, which was recently rereleased as a multiplat (and Nintendo just opted to omit their copyright on the other platforms, while retaining in the Switch version);

I was looking further to see where this all originated, and all I could find was big sites linking Dusk Golem's blog as a source back in 2012, where they claim Nintendo has registered co-ownership of the IP; But at that time, Fatal Frame 2 Remake was released on the Wii, and the back cover, the copyright line clearly states that Project Zero is a Koei Tecmo brand, while the game is both Nintendo's and Tecmo's.

I also verified the NA's copyright for the Fatal Frame name and that was always registered under Tecmo Koei, with no history of changing hands at any point (unless I'm reading it wrong); And just recently, after the re-release of FF5, Koei renewed the Project Zero name themselves in Japan.. no hand of Nintendo on that one neither.

So either I'm missing some official source that stated that back in the day, or is just what people assumed when Nintendo started funding the Fatal Frame titles back on the Wii. Sure, the future of the series is still pretty much tied to Nintendo to an extend (if they decide to inject money on another game or not; since Tecmo themselves seems very uninterested), but the IP always were Tecmo's responsibility.

In fact, the PS2 games were rereleased on the PS3 PSN just after Nintendo started funding new projects; So I don't know why there's this idea floating around to this day.

 

[MarcelRguez]

To complicate things more: what Nintendo does own is the Spirit Camera... trademark, I believe? Is that true?

 

[Hero of Legend]

To complicate things more: what Nintendo does own is the Spirit Camera... trademark, I believe? Is that true?

Yep, it's true:

SPIRIT CAMERA, A Canada Trademark of Nintendo of America Inc.. Application Number: 2060756 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks

SPIRIT CAMERA is a canadian trademark and brand of Nintendo of America Inc., Redmond WA 98052,UNITED STATES. This trademark was filed to the Canadian Intellectual Property Office on Tuesday, July 14, 2020. The SPIRIT CAMERA is under the trademark classification: Computer Product, Electrical &...

www.trademarkelite.com

SPIRIT CAMERA Trademark of Nintendo of America Inc. - Registration Number 6344263 - Serial Number 79296972 :: Justia Trademarks

Recorded electronic game programs; downloadable electronic game programs; recorded video game programs; downloadable video game programs; video game cartridges; memory cards for video game machines; cases for smartphones; covers for smartphones; downloadable computer game software for use on...

trademarks.justia.com

SPIRIT CAMERA Trademark of Nintendo Co., Ltd.. Application Number: 010789071 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks

SPIRIT CAMERA is a trademark and brand of Nintendo Co., Ltd., Minami-ku, Kyoto-shi, Kyoto 601-8501, JAPAN. This trademark was filed to EUIPO on Thursday, April 5, 2012. The SPIRIT CAMERA is under the trademark classification: Toys and Sporting Goods Products; Computer Product, Electrical &...

www.trademarkelite.com

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yeah, Nintendo doesn't co-own the IP - just the three games they produced.

However, I'm pretty sure there is (or has been) a sort of "gentlemen's agreement" between Nintendo and Koei Tecmo for future titles. These sorts of informal agreements are, apparently, very common in the Japanese videogame industry -- the amazing Eurogamer article Why Xbox failed in Japan detailed it very well.

Hey so.. I got to a little back and forward with someone on Twitter about the ownership of the Fatal Frame IP (it all started because of Dragalia Lost, believe it or not lol); And it's weird that we have this misconception that Nintendo co-owns the IP with Koei Tecmo, when it's pretty much the Bayonetta situation (a SEGA IP), whereas Nintendo has control over the games they funded and published, and only that.. including Fatal Frame 5, which was recently rereleased as a multiplat (and Nintendo just opted to omit their copyright on the other platforms, while retaining in the Switch version);

In the last decade the inverse situation (an external company owning a game using Nintendo IPs) has also become more and more common. Mario & Sonic, Mario + Rabbids and the various Warriors games are technically Sega / Ubisoft / Koei Tecmo games.

 

[Dcubed]

As far as I'm aware. Nintendo does not own the Fatal Frame/Project Zero IP, but they do co-own the rights to Fatal Frame 2 Wii Edition, Fatal Frame 4 and Fatal Frame 5; since they funded the development of those games.

Meanwhile, Nintendo completely own Spirit Camera on 3DS 100%.

As far as Fatal Frame 5's multiplatform release goes? I believe that Nintendo simply granted permission for K-T to release the game as a multiplatform title, much like how they did for TW101, as a goodwill gesture in order to maintain good working relations with K-T going forward; for a game that Nintendo didn't really care all that much about on its lonesome.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I've always been amazing how one random blog caused so much misinformation. people really are that stupid

 

[Dark Cloud]

I know this

 

[Dinoman96]

As far as I'm aware. Nintendo does not own the Fatal Frame/Project Zero IP, but they do co-own the rights to Fatal Frame 2 Wii Edition, Fatal Frame 4 and Fatal Frame 5; since they funded the development of those games.

Meanwhile, Nintendo completely own Spirit Camera on 3DS 100%.

Yeah as mentioned in the OP, it's like Bayonetta. SEGA owns the IP overall, but its last few games have been funded and published by Nintendo, thus having ownership of those games.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention Spirit Camera on the opening post, but must because I lumped together with the other Nintendo funded games, but that's a bit more clear, since they went ahead to create a whole new name; Otherwise they'd call it Fatal Frame 3D: Capture your own Ghosts or something; ;p

Though, it's still a bit confusing that Tecmo is mentioned anyway

In the last decade the inverse situation (an external company owning a game using Nintendo IPs) has also become more and more common. Mario & Sonic, Mario + Rabbids and the various Warriors games are technically Sega / Ubisoft / Koei Tecmo games.

In some the cases you mentioned is easier to keep track because usually Nintendo doesn't involve with publishing globally, just selectivally in certain countries (Mario & Sonic, for example, just the last three entries became fully Nintendo published);

And even in cases like Fire Emblem Warriors, Nintendo decided to register the OCs for themselves.

Curiously, not the OCs for Age of Calamity, apparently lol

 

[Shadow]

I love how a single article has thrown this into the wild and it caught fire like there was no tomorrow.

 

[MondoMega]

Mario & Sonic, for example, just the last three entries became fully Nintendo published

Nintendo were only the sole international publisher for Sochi and Rio! Tokyo 2020 was actually published by Sega worldwide.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Nintendo were only the sole international publisher for Sochi and Rio! Tokyo 2020 was actually published by Sega worldwide.

Huh, that's right... for some reason I thought they continued publishing with Tokyo, as far remembering I put in my regular lineup checking, but apparently not!

Meanwhile, we also got the case of Cruis'n, a fully owned Nintendo IP, but they just don't bother publishing the games anymore lol

CRUIS'N Trademark of Nintendo of America Inc. - Registration Number 6450972 - Serial Number 79294181 :: Justia Trademarks

Games, namely, card games, promotional game cards, puzzles, trading card games; toys, namely, toy balls being play balls, toy key chains being stuffed toys, toy figures, water toys, plush toys, inflatable toys, party favors in the nature of small toys, toy balloons, toy building blocks, toy...

trademarks.justia.com

 

[ILikeFeet]

Curiously, not the OCs for Age of Calamity, apparently lol

as far as I know, the Warriors games are licensed products

 

[CyberWolfBia]

as far as I know, the Warriors games are licensed products

Yes, they are! Basically Koei Tecmo games using Nintendo IPs, but the new characters created for those games are usually not registered as Nintendo properties like say, the DKC and Star Fox characters Rare made for Nintendo;

but for some reason, they went through the trouble to get the twins from Fire Emblem Warriors (and presumably anyone that was new in that game.. I dunno if there's more OCs, I never played), but not the likes of Linkle, Cia or most recently Terrako from the Hyrule Warriors games.

As far as Fatal Frame 5's multiplatform release goes? I believe that Nintendo simply granted permission for K-T to release the game as a multiplatform title, much like how they did for TW101, as a goodwill gesture in order to maintain good working relations with K-T going forward; for a game that Nintendo didn't really care all that much about on its lonesome.

By the way, this is just speculation that sparked.. but it TW101 situation seems more like Nintendo gave up of the IP entirely so Platinum could do their own thing; meanwhile, Astral Chain, as originally was unveiled as a co-property between the two, now has only Nintendo mentioned in the official website... So there's a chance an exchange happened behind the scenes.

However, if you go to look up TW101 trademark, is still currently owned by Nintendo as late as 2020. So maybe it was indeed just a courtesy for an one-time thing, and the Astral Chain deal is unrelated.

 

[Dunban]

I feel like the deal was made between Nintendo and Tecmo in Japan and their western divisions had no real input here. Any documentation about the deal from Nintendo's official website is probably gone now though since it was from back in the Wii era. It probably wasn't Nintendo buying the IP but a licensing deal, at the time Nintendo wanted horror games on their system and went the extra mile to secure them.

 

[ILikeFeet]

but for some reason, they went through the trouble to get the twins from Fire Emblem Warriors (and presumably anyone that was new in that game.. I dunno if there's more OCs, I never played), but not the likes of Linkle, Cia or most recently Terrako from the Hyrule Warriors games.

that might have been a stipulation from Intelligent Systems so they can use the characters for their other stuff if they desired

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

Yep, it's true:

SPIRIT CAMERA, A Canada Trademark of Nintendo of America Inc.. Application Number: 2060756 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks

SPIRIT CAMERA is a canadian trademark and brand of Nintendo of America Inc., Redmond WA 98052,UNITED STATES. This trademark was filed to the Canadian Intellectual Property Office on Tuesday, July 14, 2020. The SPIRIT CAMERA is under the trademark classification: Computer Product, Electrical &...

www.trademarkelite.com

SPIRIT CAMERA Trademark of Nintendo of America Inc. - Registration Number 6344263 - Serial Number 79296972 :: Justia Trademarks

Recorded electronic game programs; downloadable electronic game programs; recorded video game programs; downloadable video game programs; video game cartridges; memory cards for video game machines; cases for smartphones; covers for smartphones; downloadable computer game software for use on...

trademarks.justia.com

SPIRIT CAMERA Trademark of Nintendo Co., Ltd.. Application Number: 010789071 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks

SPIRIT CAMERA is a trademark and brand of Nintendo Co., Ltd., Minami-ku, Kyoto-shi, Kyoto 601-8501, JAPAN. This trademark was filed to EUIPO on Thursday, April 5, 2012. The SPIRIT CAMERA is under the trademark classification: Toys and Sporting Goods Products; Computer Product, Electrical &...

www.trademarkelite.com

To be fair, Nintendo probably wanted more tech demos for the 3DS's AR support. So pulling out a 3rd-party IP they've previously worked with seems reasonable enough.
Most of the development team was Tecmo Koei specifically, as well.

 

[Yokaze]

Here is the copyright for some of the games mentioned.

Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (Wii)
©2008 Nintendo / TECMO. LTD.

Project Zero 2: Wii Edition
© 2012 Nintendo / TECMO KOEI GAMES CO., LTD.

Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water (Wii U)
©2014-2015 Nintendo / KOEI TECMO GAMES CO., LTD

FATAL FRAME: Maiden of Black Water
©2015-2021 Nintendo / KOEI TECMO GAMES CO., LTD.


Spirit Camera: The Cursed Memoir
©2012 Nintendo / TECMO KOEI GAMES Co., Ltd. Spirit Camera and Nintendo 3DS are trademarks of Nintendo. ©2012 Nintendo.


The Wonderful 101 (Wii U)
© 2013 Nintendo / PlatinumGames Inc. BAYONETTA CHARACTERS ©SEGA

The Wonderful 101 Remastered was said to be published and developed with Nintendo's blessing from Platinum Games,
The copyright for the Remastered version of the game.

The Wonderful 101 Remastered
The Wonderful 101: Remastered © PlatinumGames Inc.

Nintendo's Store also has the updated Astral Chain copyright.
https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/astral-chain-switch/
© 2019 Nintendo
Main Character Design ©Masakazu Katsura/SHUEISHA


The Fire Emblem Warriors characters are Rowan, Lianna, Darros, Oskar, Yelena, and Velezark
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS

The Fire Emblem Manga characters are also
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS


While the Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE characters are both
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS
©Nintendo/ATLUS

 

[Clov]

Thanks for making this thread! It's a very common to see people assume that because Nintendo funded a few Fatal Frame games, that they own the whole franchise. I hope that they're able to learn from this.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention Spirit Camera on the opening post, but must because I lumped together with the other Nintendo funded games, but that's a bit more clear, since they went ahead to create a whole new name; Otherwise they'd call it Fatal Frame 3D: Capture your own Ghosts or something; ;p

Though, it's still a bit confusing that Tecmo is mentioned anyway

In some the cases you mentioned is easier to keep track because usually Nintendo doesn't involve with publishing globally, just selectivally in certain countries (Mario & Sonic, for example, just the last three entries became fully Nintendo published);

And even in cases like Fire Emblem Warriors, Nintendo decided to register the OCs for themselves.

Curiously, not the OCs for Age of Calamity, apparently lol

Is that Hyrule Warriors copyright for the characters, or the game itself? The FEW characters art are for Fire Emblem Cypher, right? No need to mention the title of the work they appear in on them. For the spirit event, they are mentioning the title; perhaps the copyright is because they're referencing the game itself?

It would be unusual for Nintendo/Intelligent Systems to own the FEW original characters, but for the Hyrule Warriors original characters to be split with KT. Not impossible, just odd.

 

[Ojoloco]

Here is the copyright for some of the games mentioned.

Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (Wii)
©2008 Nintendo / TECMO. LTD.

Project Zero 2: Wii Edition
© 2012 Nintendo / TECMO KOEI GAMES CO., LTD.

Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water (Wii U)
©2014-2015 Nintendo / KOEI TECMO GAMES CO., LTD

FATAL FRAME: Maiden of Black Water
©2015-2021 Nintendo / KOEI TECMO GAMES CO., LTD.


Spirit Camera: The Cursed Memoir
©2012 Nintendo / TECMO KOEI GAMES Co., Ltd. Spirit Camera and Nintendo 3DS are trademarks of Nintendo. ©2012 Nintendo.


The Wonderful 101 (Wii U)
© 2013 Nintendo / PlatinumGames Inc. BAYONETTA CHARACTERS ©SEGA

The Wonderful 101 Remastered was said to be published and developed with Nintendo's blessing from Platinum Games,
The copyright for the Remastered version of the game.

The Wonderful 101 Remastered
The Wonderful 101: Remastered © PlatinumGames Inc.

Nintendo's Store also has the updated Astral Chain copyright.
https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/astral-chain-switch/
© 2019 Nintendo
Main Character Design ©Masakazu Katsura/SHUEISHA


The Fire Emblem Warriors characters are Rowan, Lianna, Darros, Oskar, Yelena, and Velezark
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS

The Fire Emblem Manga characters are also
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS


While the Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE characters are both
©Nintendo/INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS
©Nintendo/ATLUS

The Tokyo Mirage Sessions characters are only Nintendo/Intelligent Systems, you can see it on FE Cipher

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Is that Hyrule Warriors copyright for the characters, or the game itself? The FEW characters art are for Fire Emblem Cypher, right? No need to mention the title of the work they appear in on them. For the spirit event, they are mentioning the title; perhaps the copyright is because they're referencing the game itself?

It would be unusual for Nintendo/Intelligent Systems to own the FEW original characters, but for the Hyrule Warriors original characters to be split with KT. Not impossible, just odd.

It's hard to say... it could be very well because of this, so the copyright is referring to the game and not the characters; But HW OCs have yet to appear or anything outside that context.. At least we know for sure, with Fire Emblem Warriors, Nintendo didn't want to repeat the Super Mario RPG situation, where the OCs were registered under Square.

I feel like the deal was made between Nintendo and Tecmo in Japan and their western divisions had no real input here. Any documentation about the deal from Nintendo's official website is probably gone now though since it was from back in the Wii era. It probably wasn't Nintendo buying the IP but a licensing deal, at the time Nintendo wanted horror games on their system and went the extra mile to secure them.

I suppose something as big as an IP acquisition, even if by co-ownership measures, a lot of reports would had happen in the english speaking side of the internet back then;

But to be completely honest, the idea of any company going through the hoops to get a singular IP is not a common business; they have contracts for exclusive titles here and there, but when they value IPs at the point of wanting ownership, they'd gobble publishers and studios up;

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Fatal Frame IV, V, 2 Wiimake and Spirit Camera were also all co-developed by Nintendo EPD 4. (Grasshopper Manufacture also co-developed IV only). So Nintendo's involvement in the series is important to notice. V being multiplatform certainly changes things, especially what with Tecmo teasing more Fatal Frame ports after the success of V's re-release.

 

[Yokaze]

The Tokyo Mirage Sessions characters are only Nintendo/Intelligent Systems, you can see it on FE Cipher

Some of the Cipher cards featuring the TMS characters got reuploaded by their artists featuring the ATLUS copyright like with this one.

It also shows up here in the FE Heroes artwork.

 

[Ojoloco]

Some of the Cipher cards featuring the TMS characters got reuploaded by their artists featuring the ATLUS copyright like with this one.

It also shows up here in the FE Heroes artwork.

Curious, in the end I would say that TMS is one of the least clear, in some places they put Atlus and in others they don't.

In any case, I think that this specific case does not matter a bit, TMS history is closed and commercially dead

 

[fiendcode]

Who exactly owns Linkle?

 

[ILikeFeet]

Who exactly owns Linkle?

KT I think

 

[Clov]

Who exactly owns Linkle?

My guess is that she is solely owned by Nintendo, as Koei-Tecmo didn't have any ownership over the original Fire Emblem Warriors characters. However, it's possible that she is co-owned between Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo. I think given how derivative she is of Link, it's unlikely that Koei-Tecmo owns her outright. Though we don't know for certain, and deals regarding characters can potentially be different from game to game; what's the case for FEW may not necessarily be the case for HW.

 

[Yokaze]

For Lana (Hyrule Warriors), something that might be able to answer who has ownership are these figures, and any potential future amiibo or DLC featuring her.

 

[P.Scoop]

I think Wikipedia might have a hand in spreading misinformation and sure enough it does. From the talk section of the page, dated back in 2015:

"While Tecmo Koei remains the sole owner of the Fatal Frame / Project Zero IP and franchise, Nintendo co-owns the rights to Fatal Frame IV, the Spirit Camera spin-off, Project Zero 2: Wii Edition, Fatal Frame V and all future installments of the series."

This was stated in the third paragraph, but the reference for this sentence is a link to a Project Zero 2 box art image that doesn't even work. How could this possibly claim that Nintendo owns all future installments of the series? Can anyone prove this?

Safe to say a lot of people (myself included) just assumed Nintendo will co-owns future games. Now with Maiden of Black Water being multiplatforms certainly change things. I didn't thought about it being similar to the Bayonetta series but that comparison make a lot of sense.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I think Wikipedia might have a hand in spreading misinformation and sure enough it does. From the talk section of the page, dated back in 2015:

Safe to say a lot of people (myself included) just assumed Nintendo will co-owns future games. Now with Maiden of Black Water being multiplatforms certainly change things. I didn't thought about it being similar to the Bayonetta series but that comparison make a lot of sense.

Thanks for bringing that up! So even there people were questioning the claim! --Well, FF5 being multiplat, doesn't exactly change much the current status of the series, as the game is still under Nintendo, they just let KT to publish the game elsewhere this time around; But who knows.. maybe FF5's rerelease will make the internal interest to change and they'll fund a next title themselves without Nintendo's involvement.

For Lana (Hyrule Warriors), something that might be able to answer who has ownership are these figures, and any potential future amiibo or DLC featuring her.

Hey, great finding! I wasn't even aware of that figures! The copyright there mentions both Nintendo and Tecmo, by the way;

but as @Clov said before, it could be just because of the game's branding (the "Musou" part of the title is probably Tecmo's trademark); Until we see HW OCs in a situation like FEW OCs in Fire Emblem Cipher, we'll be still questioning the true ownership of them; But as mentioned as well, it's very unlikey Nintendo would let Tecmo own alone characters were created to the Zelda franchise of all things, especially Linkle;

 

[Chalphy]

I don't think it matters who owns the rights for these collaboration characters. These characters will only be used with the consent of both parties as a general courtesy.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Little bump! Seems like Fatal Frame 4 is the exact same situation of FF5, with the Nintendo copyright being retained (at least on the Switch), while ommited on the other platforms;

That only means that Nintendo is just letting Koei Tecmo do the multiplat releases, even though they still get some cut from the game.

To reiterate, the Fatal Frame IP is fully owned by Koei Tecmo and always was, that never changed; The individual games Nintendo funded (FF2 Remake, FF4 and Fatal Frame V) are co-owned between both parties.. while Spirit Camera is a full Nintendo copyright.

In summary, some folks got their wish of having Nintendo games on other platforms lately, huh? ;P