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StarTopic The Legend of Zelda series |ST| Or: The Legend of Groose

Monster Maze the Zeldatube goat
He's arguably the only good Zeldatuber.

Every other Zeldatuber thinks that the Zelda timelines "unified" and thinks that that theory is a solid fact.

That's enough for me to not like most of 'em, though there's more to my dislike of them.

I mean, okay, maybe I exaggerate some of my antipathy towards them, but I feel like they make a lot of hype and hay over nothing. Hell, most of their fan theories are essentially chalked up to "Look at how dark the Zelda series can be" or "Isn't Hyrule such an evil place?"

Idk. I just don't like it.
 
There was one I liked way back. Vortexxy. That was my first exposure to a lot of Zelda theories that ended up being regurgitated again and again by Zeldatube (my favourite of hers is the one that posits that the Downfall Timeline is the original one, ending with the wish made in Zelda II that manifests as the premonitions Link and Zelda receive in Ocarina of Time). I dunno if people ripped her off, or if there was some other other source they're all cribbing from though.

Rumour has it she passed away in 2016, it saddens me to think she never got to experience Breath of the Wild given how excited she was for it.
 
There was one I liked way back. Vortexxy. That was my first exposure to a lot of Zelda theories that ended up being regurgitated again and again by Zeldatube (my favourite of hers is the one that posits that the Downfall Timeline is the original one, ending with the wish made in Zelda II that manifests as the premonitions Link and Zelda receive in Ocarina of Time). I dunno if people ripped her off, or if there was some other other source they're all cribbing from though.

Rumour has it she passed away in 2016, it saddens me to think she never got to experience Breath of the Wild given how excited she was for it.
Yes, there was a Facebook post that said she passed away IRL.

But yeah, the lead-up to the release of Breath of the Wild and Zeldatube then was something else. Lots of energy.

I remember VortexxyGaming, but damn, I wish she were still around. There was also Macintyre but he kinda retired to his Discord server and stopped making video games and just has a small community now.

But yeah, a lot of Zeldatube is basically just regurgitating the same "beats" as the Zeldatube backing during the lead-up to BOTW's release and, for now, it shows no signs of stopping or slowing down any time soon. Hell, I think it'll continue for a few more years at least before they say anything, well, interesting or relevant or new.

And then after that happens, they'll probably keep regurgitating that same point haha
 
It's not a Stalfos though.
Right.
Which doesn't overall impact the suggested points and themes and, in some ways, might even strengthen some of them (particularly in regard to regret and sadness)

I feel like they make a lot of hype and hay over nothing. Hell, most of their fan theories are essentially chalked up to "Look at how dark the Zelda series can be" or "Isn't Hyrule such an evil place?"
Isn't that a lot of fandom content on the 'Tube?
(I would probably largely agree with this here, as it has always struck me as rather insipid, at least as a primary source of content, and it seems to be everywhere)
 
Right.
Which doesn't overall impact the suggested points and themes and, in some ways, might even strengthen some of them (particularly in regard to regret and sadness)


Isn't that a lot of fandom content on the 'Tube?
(I would probably largely agree with this here, as it has always struck me as rather insipid, at least as a primary source of content, and it seems to be everywhere)

Eh, not really, but when it comes to Nintendo franchises, they tend to have that "Look how dark it actually all is" talking-point that keeps cropping up in many forms.

But, for example, A Song of Ice and Fire may have the opposite talking-point where the take is "It's not as dark as it appears" or "It can actually be fun and not as grimdark as people say."

(To be fair, I kinda agree with that take, even if I disagree with the extent of where people take it.)
 
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Guys did u hear that the royal family of hyrule did a torture
 
They EXECUTED people, didn't you know?

Also, they're a MONARCHY. Wow. Didn't know that.
-pushes up glasses-

Actually

given the context of Skyward Sword and the idea of Zelda being Hylia reborn -- whatever shenanigans this means for The Legend of Zelda II: The Adventure of Link -- I would posit that, in certain times and situations, Hyrule verges on and even becomes a theocracy.

All hail Zelda.
 
Good to see this thread up and running @merp. I got twilight princess emulated on my steam deck since that’s the one 3d Zelda I have not beaten before. I want to play that one and maybe do a little Zelda marathon before Tears of the kingdom comes out.
 
I'm Zeldatube adjacent (lotsa Zelda music), and Monster Maze is definitely a fave. Down-to-earth and fresh takes if you want Zelda chatter. Other folks there make me feel more like there just isn't that much to talk about each week.
Honestly, nothing beats an intro like Ocarina of Time, no matter how cliche of a choice it is as a "starter" game.
I respectfully disagree. Despite Ocarina having masterful vibes and that Miyamoto no-nonsense elegance, the lack of a version with free analog camera control stifles orientation in a 3D space to a confusing degree for me. Especially Jabu Jabu - both the leadup and dungeon itself - grinds my playthroughs to a halt. It's also got that '90s obtuseness in its progression.
 
I'm Zeldatube adjacent (lotsa Zelda music), and Monster Maze is definitely a fave. Down-to-earth and fresh takes if you want Zelda chatter. Other folks there make me feel more like there just isn't that much to talk about each week.

I respectfully disagree. Despite Ocarina having masterful vibes and that Miyamoto no-nonsense elegance, the lack of a version with free analog camera control stifles orientation in a 3D space to a confusing degree for me. Especially Jabu Jabu - both the leadup and dungeon itself - grinds my playthroughs to a halt. It's also got that '90s obtuseness in its progression.
Huh, I admit that’s a complaint I’ve never really heard before or thought of much. Isn’t BOTW the first Zelda game with free analog camera (not counting remasters)? Maybe I’m just so used to older games and free camera is such a recent development (relatively speaking) that it never bothered me much.
 
Huh, I admit that’s a complaint I’ve never really heard before or thought of much. Isn’t BOTW the first Zelda game with free analog camera (not counting remasters)? Maybe I’m just so used to older games and free camera is such a recent development (relatively speaking) that it never bothered me much.
I never clicked with non-first person early 3D games. Mario 64 and Zelda OoT have always felt clunky as heck to me, despite me being the perfect age when they released. They were mighty impressive and playing/watching them over at a friend's house is one of my most vivid childhood memories, but as soon as I was handed the controller I was just flailing. I also missed the immediacy of the 2D outings and didn't feel bad going back to my SNES at home =P . Didn't have any trouble playing Unreal Tournament a few years later though - the first person perspective felt like a much better fit for 3D.

Didn't Wind Waker have free camera movement? And the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess? Only have a little bit of experience with both so might misremember.

The combination of Early 3D Similar Looking Corridor Syndrom and lack of free camera movement does a number on my spatial orientation skills for dungeon solving in OoT and MM. Sometimes I need a camera swirl to get a bearing and know where I'm at. The glacial framerate doesn't help either, but there's the 3DS remaster for that.

A higher framerate, free camera movement and an arting up of the dungeons would go a long way to make me enjoy OoT more. As it stands, it's a fascinating and impressive diamond in the rough for me.
 
OOT has had no (official) release with a free camera, neither N64 nor 3DS versions. Right now, it's the only one left.
MM originally had no free camera in the original N64 release, but 3DS version supports free camera for the right 3DS.
WW has had a free camera in all of its versions, GC and WiiU. It was the first Zelda game to have one.
TP has had a free camera for its original GC release and WiiU release, but not Wii release.
SS originally had no free camera on the Wii, but did on Switch.
BOTW has free camera in all of its releases on WiiU and Switch.
 
OOT has had no (official) release with a free camera, neither N64 nor 3DS versions. Right now, it's the only one left.
MM originally had no free camera in the original N64 release, but 3DS version supports free camera for the right 3DS.
WW has had a free camera in all of its versions, GC and WiiU. It was the first Zelda game to have one.
TP has had a free camera for its original GC release and WiiU release, but not Wii release.
SS originally had no free camera on the Wii, but did on Switch.
BOTW has free camera in all of its releases on WiiU and Switch.
I forgot WW did! That's right, it was very nice back in the day to have that .As for TP I only ever played the Wii version, so that explains that. Another reason the GC version just plays better overall, even if I did enjoy the Wii version just fine.
 
Awesome thread! Excited to see one. Legend of Zelda is my favorite video game franchise. My first Zelda video game was Ocarina of Time. I remember my brother renting it and we got stuck in the Deku Tree. He went to school on Monday and found out we needed to light the deku stick on fire. Felt really dumb for not realizing. After that the game was smooth sailing. We eventually got our own physical copy. I played that game over and over. My favorite Zelda video game is Twilight Princess. I hope we get the HD version on Switch one day. I see MonsterMaze mentioned in here. Zeltik is the only other Zelda-tuber I watch / listen.

Kicking off the thread with OoT gushing and essay linking, good stuff.

I implore people to watch this one as well. It takes video essaying and makes it art.


Came to post this one lol. One of my favorites.

I also have enjoyed these:




Liam and KingK have some great videos covering the Zelda games among other video games too.
There was one I liked way back. Vortexxy. That was my first exposure to a lot of Zelda theories that ended up being regurgitated again and again by Zeldatube (my favourite of hers is the one that posits that the Downfall Timeline is the original one, ending with the wish made in Zelda II that manifests as the premonitions Link and Zelda receive in Ocarina of Time). I dunno if people ripped her off, or if there was some other other source they're all cribbing from though.

Rumour has it she passed away in 2016, it saddens me to think she never got to experience Breath of the Wild given how excited she was for it.

I tried find a video where someone had shared Vortexxy's last script but seems the video was removed. There is a reddit post about it though.
 
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Awesome thread! Excited to see one. Legend of Zelda is my favorite game franchise. My first Zelda game was Ocarina of Time. I remember my brother renting it and we got stuck in the Deku Tree. He went to school on Monday and found out we needed to light the deku stick on fire. Felt really dumb for not realizing. After that the game was smooth sailing. We eventually got our own physical copy. I played that game over and over. My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess and I hope we get the HD version on Switch one day. I see MonsterMaze mentioned in here. Zeltik is the only other Zelda-tuber I watch / listen.


Came to post this one lol. One of my favorites.

I also have enjoyed these:




Liam and KingK have some great videos covering the Zelda games among other video games too.


I tried find a video where someone had shared Vortexxy's last script but seems the video was removed. There is a reddit post about it though.

Oh damn...
 
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As I said I'm doing my cozy Skyward Sword playthrough and while I'm digging the game one peculiar issue I'm having with it is "dungeon exhaustion" in a way. To me Zelda at its core (and it's obvious in the original game) is a mix between exploration and dungeon content. Some games go to extremes but most try to strike a balance. But because Skyward Sword kept the exploration at an extreme minimum, most of the game is some kind of variation of dungeon content. The area that would traditionally be exploration based like Faron Woods are tightly designed and while it's very well made, by the time I'm getting to the dungeon, I'm not itching to engage with more of that type of content.

I just replayed OoT and the balance there is really good, so much so that every time you start a dungeon, you're ready to go. You've galloped through Hyrule field, visited a few towns, learn a song, did a fetch quest, ok let's go! In SS, I just went through Lanayru Desert which felt like an outdoor dungeon, then on top of it the game made me go through two shrine-like rooms just to make the actual dungeon appear! And when it was time to actually start it, I just needed a break.

BotW went the opposite, dialed the exploration way up but still kept plenty of "dungeon content" peppered throughout the adventure. Maybe it lacked the big cohesive mythical "dungeon" but the actual content was definitely in there. And after SS which in my opinion went too far with it it was a good decision. Now with TotK they have the opportunity to rebalance it further with I think more unique content instead of the same shrines and Divine Beasts which were clearly concessions made to actually ship the game in a timely fashion after spending so much time designing the world of BotW and its rules.
 
As I said I'm doing my cozy Skyward Sword playthrough and while I'm digging the game one peculiar issue I'm having with it is "dungeon exhaustion" in a way. To me Zelda at its core (and it's obvious in the original game) is a mix between exploration and dungeon content. Some games go to extremes but most try to strike a balance. But because Skyward Sword kept the exploration at an extreme minimum, most of the game is some kind of variation of dungeon content. The area that would traditionally be exploration based like Faron Woods are tightly designed and while it's very well made, by the time I'm getting to the dungeon, I'm not itching to engage with more of that type of content.

I just replayed OoT and the balance there is really good, so much so that every time you start a dungeon, you're ready to go. You've galloped through Hyrule field, visited a few towns, learn a song, did a fetch quest, ok let's go! In SS, I just went through Lanayru Desert which felt like an outdoor dungeon, then on top of it the game made me go through two shrine-like rooms just to make the actual dungeon appear! And when it was time to actually start it, I just needed a break.

BotW went the opposite, dialed the exploration way up but still kept plenty of "dungeon content" peppered throughout the adventure. Maybe it lacked the big cohesive mythical "dungeon" but the actual content was definitely in there. And after SS which in my opinion went too far with it it was a good decision. Now with TotK they have the opportunity to rebalance it further with I think more unique content instead of the same shrines and Divine Beasts which were clearly concessions made to actually ship the game in a timely fashion after spending so much time designing the world of BotW and its rules.
Very interesting!

Thanks for this wholesome and cozy post of yours. ☺️

BTW, what does everyone think of this video?




I wonder what concept ideas will make it into Tears of the Kingdom from previous Zelda games, not just prior concepts meant for Breath of the Wild?
 
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imo one of the biggest missed opportunities for Nintendo was to develop a smaller-scale 3D Zelda for the 3DS. They proved that they could run OOT and MM with the 3D versions of the games, so I was hoping that, for a final hurrah, we'd see a smaller scale (20-25 hr to 100%) fully original 3D Zelda game using the same engine. A third OOT-style game would be the perfect way to finish off the 3DS
 
imo one of the biggest missed opportunities for Nintendo was to develop a smaller-scale 3D Zelda for the 3DS. They proved that they could run OOT and MM with the 3D versions of the games, so I was hoping that, for a final hurrah, we'd see a smaller scale (20-25 hr to 100%) fully original 3D Zelda game using the same engine. A third OOT-style game would be the perfect way to finish off the 3DS
It's not going to happen now, but I believe that that would've been a great way to end it.

Who else wanted a "small-scale" 3D original Zelda for the 3DS?

I always wanted one, but ah well.

One thing I would want:

Expanding the team of employees and making three lines of Zelda games: 2D, OoT-style 3D games, and "open air" (open-world) games.
 
Ok, so after playing through the Switch version of Links Awakening and now going through the game boy version of it on the Game and Watch….I think I like the Gameboy version better…am I alone in this? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it was the Switch performance that impacts my thoughts on it but…the gameboy version just has this charm to it.



Is this an okay place to ask for a subtle hint about the two shrines I'm missing in BOTW? 🙃
Absolutely
Nope, I also prefer the GameBoy version. The screen scrolling makes the island feel larger.
 
Ok, so after playing through the Switch version of Links Awakening and now going through the game boy version of it on the Game and Watch….I think I like the Gameboy version better…am I alone in this? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it was the Switch performance that impacts my thoughts on it but…the gameboy version just has this charm to it.
I like them equally but it is odd to me that the GB/C version has 360 degree movement while the remake is locked in 8 directions. Link Between Worlds showed us how it's done.
 
Ok, so after playing through the Switch version of Links Awakening and now going through the game boy version of it on the Game and Watch….I think I like the Gameboy version better…am I alone in this? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it was the Switch performance that impacts my thoughts on it but…the gameboy version just has this charm to it.
This is going to be unpopular, but I really didn't like Link's Awakening on Switch (never having played the original before).
I suspect that - controls aside - I might have enjoyed it more on Gameboy. I think the overworld might be better suited to screen-by-screen movement as in the original. Beyond that, there's just a certain... idk, dissonance to it. It doesn't work as a "modern" game to me. Link's movement is so stiff and slow (I'd love to see comparisons between this, the original and Link to the Past, as I'm sure the latter is much faster). The overworld is unnecessarily gated and segmented, with unintuitive traversal via caves that spit you out at some otherwise unreachable part of the map. The game feels like nothing more than a dungeon gauntlet, with the overworld and town having barely any development outside of a item-swapping fetch quest that is very obtuse and results in an item (boomerang) that is almost necessary for the final boss (or am I just really bad?). I think actually getting through to the boss also required you to get through a certain amount of that quest?

I finished Link to the Past for the first time a year ago on NSO and it just felt like a dramatically better game to me (and I doubt nostalgia had much to do with it, I only played it for like a week back in the 90s).
 
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Ok, so after playing through the Switch version of Links Awakening and now going through the game boy version of it on the Game and Watch….I think I like the Gameboy version better…am I alone in this? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it was the Switch performance that impacts my thoughts on it but…the gameboy version just has this charm to it.

I haven't played the Switch version yet -- I have it, just haven't gotten around to it -- so I can't really give a comparison.

However, I've thought from the start that it should have had some sort of toggle to switch among the different versions. Something would have had to have been figured out for where the content is different, but I understand the different elements are otherwise painstakingly recreated.
 
I will stand up for the remake. I adore it. I'm not that keen on the PowerPoint transitions. I like being able to better feel how a place is connected. Ryo Nagamatsu's rearrangement of the music is sublime. The quality of life improvements are much appreciated. Rooms staying solved is great and minibosses in Turtle Rock not respawning is a godsend. And of course, it looks great.

The DX version does have the photo sidequest, though I didn't find it as great as I expected between the small scope, the Guide Dang It and the Permanently Missable Content.

Playing the remake first secured the game a number 3 spot in my ranking, but playing the DX version recently allowed ALBW to take that spot.

I will say this though, the DX version holds up a lot better against the remake than Ocarina of Time. I think I may have turned to stone looking at that thing at one point.

I like them equally but it is odd to me that the GB/C version has 360 degree movement while the remake is locked in 8 directions. Link Between Worlds showed us how it's done.

How does 360 degree movement work with a D-pad? Though I don't disagree ALBW's movement is better.
 
How does 360 degree movement work with a D-pad? Though I don't disagree ALBW's movement is better.
Maybe 360 isn't the right term. Link just feels more smooth in the previous 2D Zeldas. Even though he hasn't only four directional sprites, he doesn't 'snap' to a direction like Pokemon. If you play with a circle pad on 3DS VC it feels natural. It's still 8 directions but it doesn't 'feel' like it.

The remake is gorgeous but it feels odd to have this cute 3D model snap to a direction after having played ALBW. Maybe they were going for a stop motion vibe, but it just doesn't feel as good with an analog stick, and the game doesn't even let you use the d-pad.

It's probably the abstraction - Link has less frames of animation and sprites in the GB version so my imagination fills in the gaps. But in the 3D remake I'm expecting 'transition frames' between east and southeast, especially since the rest of the animation is so smooth.

LADX-move.gif
gameplay01.gif
 
Ok, so after playing through the Switch version of Links Awakening and now going through the game boy version of it on the Game and Watch….I think I like the Gameboy version better…am I alone in this? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it was the Switch performance that impacts my thoughts on it but…the gameboy version just has this charm to it.
I hate having to switch in the menus so much in the original so i prefer the remake all the way
Cuter graphics too

But ive always had a softer spot for all the zelda remakes becuase thats how i primarly got into the series.
 
Thank you @Awesomegames23 and @merp!

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Here's my map of Hyrule. I have a few sidequests I haven't completed but I've completed all Shrine Quests I could find, about half of the Korok seeds, most of Hyrule Castle save Ganon, and most of the DLC except I haven't done the last Master Sword trials yet.

I suspect what tripped me up is that for a time we played without the shrine tracker on. This is the same save file from March 6th 2017 when we began playing, and then played on and off since then.
 
Thank you @Awesomegames23 and @merp!

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Here's my map of Hyrule. I have a few sidequests I haven't completed but I've completed all Shrine Quests I could find, about half of the Korok seeds, most of Hyrule Castle save Ganon, and most of the DLC except I haven't done the last Master Sword trials yet.

I suspect what tripped me up is that for a time we played without the shrine tracker on. This is the same save file from March 6th 2017 when we began playing, and then played on and off since then.
I see 1 shrine you're missing already. I'll give you a hint, it's very close to one of the DLC shrines Mipha had to complete.
 
Thank you @Awesomegames23 and @merp!

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Here's my map of Hyrule. I have a few sidequests I haven't completed but I've completed all Shrine Quests I could find, about half of the Korok seeds, most of Hyrule Castle save Ganon, and most of the DLC except I haven't done the last Master Sword trials yet.

I suspect what tripped me up is that for a time we played without the shrine tracker on. This is the same save file from March 6th 2017 when we began playing, and then played on and off since then.
I also know where the other 1 is, to give you a hint, between Naboris, Kuh Takkar shrine, Mogg Latan shrine, and Rota Ooh shrine.
 
Thank you so much @Awesomegames23 ! I'm going to go looking for them tomorrow. They're both ones the shrine tracker will pick up? I thought I combed the map so thoroughly in the Gerudo region but I always felt like there and Lanayru and possibly Hebra and Faron had things I missed.

After 3 years, I finally solved the Palmorae Beach Ruins shrine quest and Hero's Cache sidequest with my wife's help in the past few days. I've also explored Hyrule Castle for the first time over the last few weeks and I was really impressed with it, I plan on making a more detailed post about that. After years of buildup I thought I knew what it's be like and I was totally wrong. 😄
 
Thank you so much @Awesomegames23 ! I'm going to go looking for them tomorrow. They're both ones the shrine tracker will pick up? I thought I combed the map so thoroughly in the Gerudo region but I always felt like there and Lanayru and possibly Hebra and Faron had things I missed.

After 3 years, I finally solved the Palmorae Beach Ruins shrine quest and Hero's Cache sidequest with my wife's help in the past few days. I've also explored Hyrule Castle for the first time over the last few weeks and I was really impressed with it, I plan on making a more detailed post about that. After years of buildup I thought I knew what it's be like and I was totally wrong. 😄
Yeah no problem, the 1st missing shrine I pointed out is super well hidden, and the 2nd shrine is a really fun game.

Hyrule Castle is most impressive in BoTW. If dungeons in TotK are anything like BoTW Hyrule Castle I'll be very happy, but hopefully with more puzzles and locked doors.

Edit: yeah the shrine locating function can pick up any shrine.
 
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I utterly refuse to find all the Koroks…. Over 500 hours and not close to 100%.

For shame!

Yet, I miss Botw. 😢
 
Is the Zelda Gamecube collection a good port to play for OoT and MM?
If I remember correctly, MM was said to have serious problems with crashing.


Personally I love the 3DS ports/remakes, but opinions are divided on MM3D. For a first time player, I think the QoL additions for MM in particular outweigh the potential cons.
 
I utterly refuse to find all the Koroks…. Over 500 hours and not close to 100%.

For shame!

Yet, I miss Botw. 😢
What?

How could you do this to me?

This is outrageous, it's UNFAIR.

How can Nintendo make a video game that doesn't appreciate the player's time and still get a GOTY award for it?
 
I also know where the other 1 is, to give you a hint, between Naboris, Kuh Takkar shrine, Mogg Latan shrine, and Rota Ooh shrine.
I'm hopelessly lost lol. I really appreciate the hints but I haven't been able to find either yet. I think I might have tried soaring over the spots from too high up. I'm going to take another pass through both areas. No more hints yet please, haha, just wanted to share an update. I'll find them, I know it, just gotta keep searching. ⛩️
 
I'm hopelessly lost lol. I really appreciate the hints but I haven't been able to find either yet. I think I might have tried soaring over the spots from too high up. I'm going to take another pass through both areas. No more hints yet please, haha, just wanted to share an update. I'll find them, I know it, just gotta keep searching. ⛩️
They’re there! Let me know if you need a hint though.
 
Anyone have experience with The Legend of Zelda fanfiction?

(I was also hoping to use this thread for Zelda fanfiction recommendations.)
 
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Just wanted to say thanks to @Awesomegames23 for helping us find the shrines!!! The shrine quest in the Gerudo region was tough to locate but I finally happened upon the NPCs a couple days ago thanks to the hints I got. I really enjoyed the shrine quest associated with this as well as the ensuing gyro-based shrine.

And then two nights ago I was about ready to give up trying to find the very last shrine up in the Akkala region and I asked my wife to try looking for it to see if she could get the sensor to go off because I was just having no luck. Within 5 minutes she got the sensor to go off and shortly thereafter we found it! As was said upthread, this was a really well hidden shrine. It feels so good to have gotten all of the shrines and I really liked the reward. I'm now going to try the final Master Sword 🗡️ trials and then hopeful just wrapping up a few small loose ends and defeating Ganon.
 
Is the Zelda Gamecube collection a good port to play for OoT and MM?

I've heard of people having problems with Majora's Mask on that collection, but I really don't remember having any real issues with it.

I don't have any experience with options that came about after that -- recall hearing about some elements of the 3DS version that didn't sound right to me, but I don't recall offhand what those were -- but the GameCube disk worked well for me.
 

To this day I'm still pretty amazed that Groose is not Ganondorf.

I know a lot of people like Demise, but when I started Skyward Sword, the fact that Groose has red hair, is super muscular, doesn't like Link and knows Zelda, I was expecting him to be contaminated by evil and that he would become the first incarnation of Ganon/Ganondorf.

I'm sure Nintendo thought about it too but it's a shame they didn't do it :(
 


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