Discussion The lack of Gender Representation at the Tournaments of official Nintendo Events

[lexony]

With the recent streams around of the Smash and Mariokart tournements of Gamescom and Nintendo Live I started to notice something: The contestants and the host and guests (in the German stream) are almost all exclusively male.

I get that the community around those games generally have male audiences and I certainly don't want to talk down what those player achieved. Though I think it isn't really a good look especially when you consider that the Switch seems to attract a lot of female players, even 50% women gamers in the US alone apparently.

It is one thing if Gender or other aspects aren't necessarily reflected at fan community events, though those are official streams by Nintendo with the goal to directly interact with their audiences and there aren't exactly many direct interaction points with them right now. So they should include as many people as possible.

I think they need to actively search for more female players for those streams to at least enter the tournaments at the beginning or add games where there maybe are more women. Or just promote it by making an all female Smash tournament.

Do you agree with me? Or am I interpreting too much into it? I just think Live Events like those should reflect all audiences.

Edit: Just to be clear, I‘m not primarily talking about the current Smash (or other games) competitive scene or eSport gaming in general. It’s more about how Nintendo presents their games to their fans (who plays our games and who is able to achieve to be the best player?) and how they are promoting those events to the players. I know it is difficult and of course I don‘t know how much Nintendo actually pays attention to that or how their audiences really look like. But I do believe they could be more proactive in this matter.

 

[Toad King]

IIRC all the people at those tournaments were winners in qualifiers. Nintendo isn't picking and choosing them themselves.

 

[lexony]

IIRC all the people at those tournaments were winners in qualifiers. Nintendo isn't picking and choosing them themselves.

I know that. It is more the question of how those qualifiers were promoted in the respective communities. I imagine that there were more male players from the usual bubbles, because well events like those usually get shared and discussed over the existing communities. I'm not really criticizing that. But I think Nintendo should try to find a way to attract their events to all their audiences. To have a dedicated label (Nintendo VS) is a good start, but pretty much unknown.

 

[Toad King]

I know that. It is more the question how those qualifiers where promoted in the respective communities. I imagine that there where more male players from the usual bubbles, because well it got shared among them. I'm not criticizing that. I just think Nintendo should try to find a way to attract their events to all their audiences.

This is a problem is all esports and I think asking Nintendo, probably the most esports-adverse gaming company out there, to try to combat this bias is a tall order.

 

[lexony]

This is a problem is all esports and I think asking Nintendo, probably the most esports-adverse gaming company out there, to try to combat this bias is a tall order.

You need to start somewhere and if you have complete control over the event it is not impossible. I'm not expecting that they will do much about it given how Nintendo is structured over their many regional branches and their history of actually doing live events or tournaments but I think it's something fair to criticize. Especially when you consider the bigger female audience on Nintendo platforms compared to the other consoles.

 

[woodhead]

You need to start somewhere and if you have complete control over the event it is not impossible. I'm not expecting that they will do much about it given how Nintendo is structured over their many regional branches and their history of actually doing live events or tournaments but I think it's something fair to criticize. Especially when you consider the bigger female audience on Nintendo platforms compared to the other consoles.

I mean you can criticize everything you want but it is positive to me that Nintendo at least have a higher female audience than the other two.
From my personal experience I sadly only know one woman that likes to play Super Smash Bros.. I have many female friends that are very active in the Anime/Manga/Cosplay scene and everyone of them also plays video games, but not a single one of them likes to play Smash Bros.

 

[MMXZero]

You need to start somewhere and if you have complete control over the event it is not impossible. I'm not expecting that they will do much about it given how Nintendo is structured over their many regional branches and their history of actually doing live events or tournaments but I think it's something fair to criticize. Especially when you consider the bigger female audience on Nintendo platforms compared to the other consoles.

Nintendo can't force women to participate in their tournaments, bub.

So, no. This isn't a fair criticism.

 

[lexony]

Nintendo can't force women to participate in their tournaments, bub.

So, no. This isn't a fair criticism.

Wasn't really my point. If it really is the case that women don't want to play in Smash Tournaments in general fair, though then maybe Nintendo need to make different kind of streams alongside the tournaments to reflect their audiences at those events. But I see I'm alone with my point here and people want to understand me wrong.

 

[Party Sklar]

Nintendo can't force women to participate in their tournaments, bub.

So, no. This isn't a fair criticism.

OP is kinda right, though, Nintendo could do something to promote these games and kinds of tournaments to women. To send a welcoming message of sorts.

From my personal experience I sadly only know one woman that likes to play Super Smash Bros.. I have many female friends that are very active in the Anime/Manga/Cosplay scene and everyone of them also plays video games, but not a single one of them likes to play Smash Bros.

I wonder if the community has something to do with it. A lot of hardcore Smash players tend to be hardcore mansplainers as well when it comes to their game. As a man it is sometimes unbearable, so I can’t imagine how repellent it must be to women.

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

Nintendo can't force women to participate in their tournaments, bub.

So, no. This isn't a fair criticism.

 

[zumaddy]

As a female Smash player I don't know many other women that play + the community isn't the friendliest towards women (it did get better, it used to be worse). It's less 'gender representation' and more 'reflective of community'

 

[jnWake]

I think it’s a better point to talk about tournaments like the Smash Invitational held before Ultimate’s launch, which had only male players invited iirc.

 

[DarkField]

I didn't watch the Nintendo live tourneys, but I can say that at least smash ultimate community has a fair amount of female commentators in contrast with other eSports in general, about participants I've seen girls participating, some get farther in the bracket and others don't, it is a competition in the end.

 

[DaToonie]

This is just a result of the long-term issue with gaming circles. Just ain't pleasant to be a part of as a non-male. Too much toxicity and weirdness.

Things would have to change at the root of that issue to see a difference in these types of situations. It is a shame though, considering how much of the gaming sphere IS women/non-men.

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

I feel this is a very real issue that's worth bringing up, and that I hope would improve over time,

but also one where Nintendo can do very little about. Even if they actively marketed the game to female players, most of this is gonna fall on the competitive community. And in the case of Smash, there's so much to unpack there.

 

[PixelKnight]

Nintendo can't force women to participate in their tournaments, bub.

So, no. This isn't a fair criticism.

This is arguing against a straw man. No one is talking about ‘forcing’ people to participate. But how those qualifiers are framed and promoted could be looked at to make sure the organisers do everything possible to be welcoming and inclusive rather than be consistently filled out by an overwhelming male list. If it still gets the same results from the community, fair enough, but what they can do is look at the elements they do control, which is making sure the qualifiers and promotion is as inclusive as possible and reaches spaces that aren’t just male-dominated.

“The community isn’t very inclusive.” Isn’t a good reason for a major company to shrug and not do anything about the elements of an organised competition it can control. Sometimes you have to lead by example, like investigating the promotion and organisation of all events from the qualifiers up, to make sure they are as inclusive as possible despite other elements. Maybe it changes nothing. Or maybe it helps shift the needle by a tiny degree one year and slightly more the year after.

 

[BassForever]

Because I doubt the community will ever change, they only way Nintendo could probably fix this themselves would be to create a separate division for female/nonbinary/etc competitors and promote that scene. While that would guarantee more diversity is presented in official tournaments, it opens up a dozen other can of worms that I'm not equipped to discuss.

 

[Hailinel]

As a female Smash player I don't know many other women that play + the community isn't the friendliest towards women (it did get better, it used to be worse). It's less 'gender representation' and more 'reflective of community'

Yeah, the Smash community historically being what it is, it's not exactly a surprise.

 

[ngpdrew]

OP is kinda right, though, Nintendo could do something to promote these games and kinds of tournaments to women. To send a welcoming message of sorts.

I wonder if the community has something to do with it. A lot of hardcore Smash players tend to be hardcore mansplainers as well when it comes to their game. As a man it is sometimes unbearable, so I can’t imagine how repellent it must be to women.

God. What a nightmare, right? You can’t even navigate the stage select screen without some smelly jerk trying to tell you how much smarter they are than you.

 

[Vantell]

Super Smash Bros. community was a shithole for a long time. I think it needs healing and I do feel that pushing more diversity within the tournaments would be great. This should and could be marketed .

 

[lexony]

This is arguing against a straw man. No one is talking about ‘forcing’ people to participate. But how those qualifiers are framed and promoted could be looked at to make sure the organisers do everything possible to be welcoming and inclusive rather than be consistently filled out by an overwhelming male list. If it still gets the same results from the community, fair enough, but what they can do is look at the elements they do control, which is making sure the qualifiers and promotion is as inclusive as possible and reaches spaces that aren’t just male-dominated.

“The community isn’t very inclusive.” Isn’t a good reason for a major company to shrug and not do anything about the elements of an organised competition it can control. Sometimes you have to lead by example, like investigating the promotion and organisation of all events from the qualifiers up, to make sure they are as inclusive as possible despite other elements. Maybe it changes nothing. Or maybe it helps shift the needle by a tiny degree one year and slightly more the year after.

You summarised what I tried to say better than I ever could.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Its something that Nintendo should keep in mind at least when they are looking for hosts and reps.

And maybe just female exclusive tournaments for a while. Just to build simething there that hopefully is nutured into talent for future events.

 

[Yoshifan31]

First off competitive Smash is more or less dead, or at least in the worst spot it’s ever been since the social media/streaming era

Second, Nintendo does regularly work with female hosts, I mean look at the english stream. There’s not a lot of female top players or established personalities but they did consistently reach out to them since they started getting involved with the scene

Lastly, you have to recognize that competitive Smash is played by barely 0,1% of the game’s sales. If you’re looking for women on top of that… it’s probably a better percentage than the ratio in Chess tournaments or software engineering but still. Players like SuperGirlKels (retired from competing, was a host in the english stream) are like pretty much a perfect storm of circumstances of how women can successfully make a name for themselves in Smash (basically she cares about the game, goes there to compete, travels with her family so never felt unsafe, comes from a safe scene in general). Is it possible for others to follow her path? Of course, it’s just that finding people that are even about playing this game competitively is rare enough. The current state of Smash doesn’t help, so good luck. Also Smash Sisters was a thing but didn’t really encourage any more women to compete, it felt more like a small clique within the scene. The fish in a barrel mentality didn’t help either, everyone can just get good and beat other people in bracket

 

[Hailinel]

Nintendo is definitely not adverse to female tournament hosts and commentators. They did, unfortunately, have the bad luck of at one time working with a female Smash commentator that turned out to be a fucking creeper, though.

We're a few years removed from a pivotal point where a number of monsters were outed and ejected from Smash tournament participation (players, commentators, and otherwise), and it's in a better place than it used to be. But you're only going to attract a diverse audience so long as that audience feels it's both safe and worthwhile to attend.

 

[Deleted member 1005]

Nintendo can't force people to join tournaments, nor can they hand pick certain people of specific ethnic backgrounds or genders to partake (unless it's an influencer/celebrity invitational). Would it be cool if more women were in the tournament? Sure, but don't take away from the people that earned their spots because you feel like there should more women there for the sake of there being more women.

 

[Wockio]

There's probably 1 female for every 100 males that have enough interest and skill in the game to even consider attending these tournaments. It's not a sexism thing.

 

[lexony]

Nintendo can't force people to join tournaments, nor can they hand pick certain people of specific ethnic backgrounds or genders to partake (unless it's an influencer/celebrity invitational). Would it be cool if more women were in the tournament? Sure, but don't take away from the people that earned their spots because you feel like there should more women there for the sake of there being more women.

I never said anything about forcing.

But Nintendo can try to promote their multiplayer games outside of the usual circles and make it sure that they provide an inclusive environment. It is not easy and the community will not suddenly be super welcoming, but it would be possible to take a more active role to set some impulses.

 

[PixelKnight]

Nintendo can't force people to join tournaments, nor can they hand pick certain people of specific ethnic backgrounds or genders to partake (unless it's an influencer/celebrity invitational). Would it be cool if more women were in the tournament? Sure, but don't take away from the people that earned their spots because you feel like there should more women there for the sake of there being more women.

As I said above, making sure the material promoting the qualifiers is inclusive and reaches spaces that aren’t male-dominated isn’t the same as either ‘forcing’ people to take past or having quotas.

 

[Sheldon]

It's something I noticed watching Splatoon or Hearthstone tournaments in the past. Even when there's equal representation in commentators, the number of female competitors is almost or actually zero.

Anecdotally, from following the Pokemon VGC scene online and visiting one or two local tournaments, they usually have a surprising number of girls in the lowest age bracket but once you get to the 16 and up division, it's pretty much all boys and young men. I'd love to see some kind of official gender statistics the Pokemon Company may keep for their tourneys because it might be a good data point about socialization and how women are pushed out of these spaces.

 

[TreIII]

First off competitive Smash is more or less dead, or at least in the worst spot it’s ever been since the social media/streaming era

I don't think it's "dead" at all, but there's definitely a few things going against it, too.

But the biggest one I can think about at the moment, beyond the game's age, is that Smash is definitely in its #leftbehind era compared to every other current, recent or upcoming fighting game that's learned the harsh lessons from covid about how important netcode is to the life of your game, and has done some homework to show it. The flipside to that is that local events have suffered as a result, which of course puts Smash in a weird slot because that's the only avenue that scene has now for events officially recognized by Nintendo. So, you're left with a game that has piss poor netcode, and decreased turnout at locals.

Another time, another place and with perhaps better tech (and to perhaps address the concerns of the OP), perhaps Nintendo could host a variety of online events that could beckon to a variety of gamers from all walks of life. Running online events has got to be easier for such.

It's just not likely going to happen as long as Nintendo has yet to prove they learned those lessons in a poignant way, and continues to partner with those who are just as lacking in that area, giving what we're seeing with Bamco and Tekken 8.

 

[Hailinel]

I don't think it's "dead" at all, but there's definitely a few things going against it, too.

But the biggest one I can think about at the moment, beyond the game's age, is that Smash is definitely in its #leftbehind era compared to every other current, recent or upcoming fighting game that's learned the harsh lessons from covid about how important netcode is to the life of your game, and has done some homework to show it. The flipside to that is that local events have suffered as a result, which of course puts Smash in a weird slot because that's the only avenue that scene has now for events officially recognized by Nintendo. So, you're left with a game that has piss poor netcode, and decreased turnout at locals.

Another time, another place and with perhaps better tech (and to perhaps address the concerns of the OP), perhaps Nintendo could host a variety of online events that could beckon to a variety of gamers from all walks of life. Running online events has got to be easier for such.

It's just not likely going to happen as long as Nintendo has yet to prove they learned those lessons in a poignant way, and continues to partner with those who are just as lacking in that area, giving what we're seeing with Bamco and Tekken 8.

You can't really blame netcode as a significant reason for a lack of diverse representation at in-person tournaments like the ones Nintendo streams on their own YouTube channel. The in-person tournament attendance, while it definitely took that post-COVID hit that affected all major tournaments and convention events, isn't statistically attributable to the netcode quality in any measurable fashion.

Which isn't to say that the netcode shouldn't be better, but the code in Ultimate is what it is at this point. And asking a studio other than Bandai Namco to make the next Smash isn't in itself going to guarantee a better online experience in any capacity.

For now, the in-person tournament scene just needs to be better. Locals and regionals need to have advertising that attracts more than just the traditional competitive Smash player, and these events themselves need to be welcoming and demonstrably safe to attend. That's on the individual TOs that run these tournaments, especially given the competitive scene's historically recalcitrant behavior when it comes to playing by Nintendo's rules.

 

[Deleted member 1005]

As I said above, making sure the material promoting the qualifiers is inclusive and reaches spaces that aren’t male-dominated isn’t the same as either ‘forcing’ people to take past or having quotas.

I haven’t seen any Nintendo tournament advertising that isn’t “inclusive”. How do they even do that without outright putting “WOMEN PLEASE REGISTER” on it? Even then that would just attract more dudes than women lmfao.

I never said anything about forcing.

But Nintendo can try to promote their multiplayer games outside of the usual circles and make it sure that they provide an inclusive environment. It is not easy and the community will not suddenly be super welcoming, but it would be possible to take a more active role to set some impulses.

They do though lmfao. Nintendo is one of the most inclusive companies when it comes to advertising their games. They can’t control who decides to play their games competitively or who decides to put the time in to even attend tournaments.

 

[lexony]

They do though lmfao. Nintendo is one of the most inclusive companies when it comes to advertising their games. They can’t control who decides to play their games competitively or who decides to put the time in to even attend tournaments.

So you don‘t believe that there might be many players out there who want to participate at events like those or even more local tournaments but fear the toxicity of the scene? I might be wrong but it‘s not unlikely that there are many people out there who are either thinking this isn‘t something for them because of how the current scene looks like (or simply don’t know about it) or would just love to compete but don‘t know where to start.

 

[PixelKnight]

I haven’t seen any Nintendo tournament advertising that isn’t “inclusive”. How do they even do that without outright putting “WOMEN PLEASE REGISTER” on it? Even then that would just attract more dudes than women lmfao.

They do though lmfao. Nintendo is one of the most inclusive companies when it comes to advertising their games. They can’t control who decides to play their games competitively or who decides to put the time in to even attend tournaments.

Do you seriously think the only way to encourage a diverse selection of people to enter is to put ‘women please apply’ on it? I don’t see why you are laughing at your own ludicrous straw man. It’s not just about the ad. An ad can be completely neutral, but it’s also about where a neutral ad appears, in what spaces and context, and how even the atmosphere of the events themselves is managed. Just because you don’t understand concepts like media planning doesn’t mean you have a point.

 

[Raysu Delight]

There are so few women queueing up to play these games competitively. Nintendo doesn't even want competitive gaming communities to exist for their games in the first place, so expecting them to do something about gender representation in those communities is hilarious to me.

In fact if someone ever actually did present this issue to them and ask them to do something about it, their response would probably just be to shut the whole thing down. They are clueless.

 

[MrBones]

There's probably 1 female for every 100 males that have enough interest and skill in the game to even consider attending these tournaments. It's not a sexism thing.

Agreed. Making events safe and welcoming to everyone absolutely needs to be prioritized and should be a thing. I think there's been a lot of good work done on that front in the last decade. But there's also just a lack of demographics, that's the biggest factor by far. It's the same across all competitive games/tournaments. MOBA esports, fighting games, etc

 

[Deleted member 1005]

So you don‘t believe that there might be many players out there who want to participate at events like those or even more local tournaments but fear the toxicity of the scene? I might be wrong but it‘s not unlikely that there are many people out there who are either thinking this isn‘t something for them because of how the current scene looks like (or simply don’t know about it) or would just love to compete but don‘t know where to start.

Again, that’s not on Nintendo. They have been incredibly inclusive. Get mad at the community for letting itself get to this point.

Do you seriously think the only way to encourage a diverse selection of people to enter is to put ‘women please apply’ on it? I don’t see why you are laughing at your own ludicrous straw man. It’s not just about the ad. An ad can be completely neutral, but it’s also about where a neutral ad appears, in what spaces and context, and how even the atmosphere of the events themselves is managed. Just because you don’t understand concepts like media planning doesn’t mean you have a point.

When they’re already very inclusive, there’s nothing else I can think of that would make people like you happy except for outright putting “WOMEN PLEASE JOIN” on it. Nintendo can’t babysit the smash community or any other competitive community to make sure that they’re diverse and inclusive. They do what they can, it’s the community’s fault for letting it get to where it is now.

Where else can Nintendo put advertisements to attract female users to their stuff? They’re already on TV, in magazines, in stores, and so on. They regularly have actresses in their commercials and marketing materials. They’ve been trying. This isn’t a “Nintendo” problem. If you expect Nintendo to push a large scale marketing campaign for some smash tournament in hopes of attracting women to it, then you’d be sorely disappointed.

 

[Mekanos]

There's probably 1 female for every 100 males that have enough interest and skill in the game to even consider attending these tournaments. It's not a sexism thing.

Probably because they know they'll be harassed endlessly if they even try

 

[Wockio]

Probably because they know they'll be harassed endlessly if they even try

 

[Mer.Saloon]

So long as Nintendo is hands off on the regular competitive scene, we are reliant on the grossroots initiative to make these events welcoming to women.

Nintendo as is, is just piggbacking off the communities that are there.

So you don‘t believe that there might be many players out there who want to participate at events like those or even more local tournaments but fear the toxicity of the scene? I might be wrong but it‘s not unlikely that there are many people out there who are either thinking this isn‘t something for them because of how the current scene looks like (or simply don’t know about it) or would just love to compete but don‘t know where to start.

The problem is that these scenes also really dont want Nintendo to participate.

And previous instances of Nintendo being involved have been unpleasant to say the least. Mainly because Nintendo doesnt want to take the reins of fostering a proper competitive scene.

The very idea of participating for cash reward is against a lot of what Nintendo stands for. But if you have no reward, people just dont come, and the scene is more reliant on grassroots methods.

 

[Hailinel]

So long as Nintendo is hands off on the regular competitive scene, we are reliant on the grossroots initiative to make these events welcoming to women.

Nintendo as is, is just piggbacking off the communities that are there.


The problem is that these scenes also really dont want Nintendo to participate.

And previous instances of Nintendo being involved have been unpleasant to say the least. Mainly because Nintendo doesnt want to take the reins of fostering a proper competitive scene.

The very idea of participating for cash reward is against a lot of what Nintendo stands for. But if you have no reward, people just dont come, and the scene is more reliant on grassroots methods.

Yeah. It comes down to the grassroots scene making concessions, and understanding that Nintendo does not grant cash rewards to tournament competitors. Nintendo treats tournaments as venues for advertising, and the success of the Smash Bros. series is in no way contingent on the competitive scene, regardless of the views of the grassroots players.

Until the grassroots are willing to play ball by Nintendo's rules, Nintendo is going to remain hands-off, and even if they do get more involved, they're not going to suddenly fund million-dollar prize pools for majors.

 

[amiigo]

Nintendo is definitely not adverse to female tournament hosts and commentators. They did, unfortunately, have the bad luck of at one time working with a female Smash commentator that turned out to be a fucking creeper, though.

We're a few years removed from a pivotal point where a number of monsters were outed and ejected from Smash tournament participation (players, commentators, and otherwise), and it's in a better place than it used to be. But you're only going to attract a diverse audience so long as that audience feels it's both safe and worthwhile to attend.

I don't understand how it took so long for this to get brought up in this thread. I feel like Nintendo is pretty inclusive (with a lot of work to go of course). The bigger issue is the rampant sexual assault in the Smash community. How can you ensure it doesn't happen again?

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I don't understand how it took so long for this to get brought up in this thread. I feel like Nintendo is pretty inclusive (with a lot of work to go of course). The bigger issue is the rampant sexual assault in the Smash community. How can you ensure it doesn't happen again?

That happened many many years ago.

But the fact its been brought up is already a sign of the image problems of the Smash scene.

It hasnt been a rampant problem since early Ultimate years. And the community has been trying to foster a more welcoming presence (trying, being the word here.)

But that isnt enough. The problem is that Nintendo doesnt want to pay out and accept the responsibility of a cash prize and even running circuits with cash prizes behind them. That clashes with Nintendo's brand image of their games. And this has been stated regularly whenever Nintendo does get involved.

If they offered cash, they fear it would change the perception of games like Smash to being one centered around the hardcore tourney scene. As people would narrow down on that prize and hardcore Smash rules.

 

[amiigo]

What does offering a cash prize have to do with the environment being safe? Legitimately do not understand

 

[Mer.Saloon]

What does offering a cash prize have to do with the environment being safe? Legitimately do not understand

In that that stands in the way of Nintendo taking a firmer hand of the environment.

The scene has been giving their assurances thay nothing will happen and have been more vigilant (been a while since i was actively watching, but i didnt stop until long after the scandals). And well, nothing major has happened for a while.

But Nintendo wont do anything to make perfectly certain of that because the very concept of the scene is against them.

 

[GamerJM]

IMO, the lack of competitors who are women in environments like this is a pretty complex issue with several causes, ranging from how events are conducted, how events are currently perceived in terms of safety due to past incidents, the way women are socialized compared to men in terms of being competitive and taking something like a video game seriously, the way the games themselves are marketed, the types of social in-groups that formed around competitive communities and the history of those groups, and how such events are marketed. As someone with many connections within competitive gaming scenes, I can say that initiatives and actions have been taken to attempt to fix these problems, but we all still have a long way to go.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

There's probably 1 female for every 100 males that have enough interest and skill in the game to even consider attending these tournaments. It's not a sexism thing.

Suggesting women are any less skilled at any given videogame is a sexism thing. The only reason, if any, that women don't turn up, is because they think, probably correctly, that they'll be harassed. It's nothing to do with interest or skill levels.

 

[BassForever]

Considering how toxic and shitty a lot of people are in twitch chat or on social media are currently discussing esports tournaments, I can't even imagine how much more venom must get thrown out female/transgender/nonbinary/etc competitors on the regular. Heck just look how toxic and shitty people can be towards some of the historic top tier smash players like Hungry Box, MKLeo, or Zero. Now imagine if Hungry Box had been a women dominating Melee with Jigglypuff? I can't even imagine how miserable that would have been.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

In that that stands in the way of Nintendo taking a firmer hand of the environment.

The scene has been giving their assurances thay nothing will happen and have been more vigilant (been a while since i was actively watching, but i didnt stop until long after the scandals). And well, nothing major has happened for a while.

But Nintendo wont do anything to make perfectly certain of that because the very concept of the scene is against them.

Nintendo doesn’t take a firmer hand because it is frankly way too much work for little benefit & doesn’t necessarily make money. On top of both entities having diametrically opposed ideas of how to run the scene.

The scene can give all the assurances they want that “nothing will happen” or “being more vigilant”, it’s but naught in the wind after that summer + their seeming inaction on the subject.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Nintendo doesn’t take a firmer hand because it is frankly way too much work for little benefit & doesn’t necessarily make money. On top of both entities having diametrically opposed ideas of how to run the scene.

The scene can give all the assurances they want that “nothing will happen” or “being more vigilant”, it’s but naught in the wind after that summer + their seeming inaction on the subject.

Inaction? People were perma banned. Majors are more tightly managed, and a lot of the after party drinking culture has been curtailed. The pros that remained and reps have been more vocal in trying to maintain that professional distance from fans. Yeah, there can always be more, but its insulting to say there's inaction.

Its not encompassing every region, but you underesimate how individual these scenes are. You have things split by the west coast, east coast, individual states, even countries. This isnt just one big organization, because guess what? Everytime the scene tries to become something bigger, Nintendo comes and fouls it up breaking things up like with the Smash World Tour and near destruction of VGBC.

That summer was nearly 5 years ago now and things have been quiet. Its possible the behavior is underground, but it belies your ignorance that you dare say inaction.

More needs to be done. But if we just deny any changes are happening, then what's anyone veen working towards?