CyberWolfBia
I talk more about games than I play them
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hey! First thread on Famii, and I hope it's the first of many in the future! I wanted to take the opportunity of our small and comfy community as of the current member count and my very first thread to bring something special I've been working throughout the whole Smash Ultimate speculation (as some will recognize from my posts from the old place):
Since Brawl on the Wii, Smash has opened the floodgates for 3rd Party companies have their characters in this incredibly lucrative marketing opportunity and be part of gaming's biggest celebration; And with Ultimate capping off its DLC and certainly without more Smash discussion for a couple of years from now, I finally concluded this little analysis of these characters and their presence on Nintendo hardware (outside Smash itself);
This is all about the particular characters from 3rd Party companies that are playable in Smash Bros. and how many times they popped up on Nintendo systems before and after their inclusions in the Smash franchise; Not much on the series they come from, not much discussing on said companies and their support on Nintendo systems (Capcom on N64 is the biggest tragedy ever told...), but the icons whose occupies about 20% of Ultimate's roster.
But first, I have to rundown some guidelines I had to establish for myself before going after all those games.. because, you see, there's ports, costumes and so much other factors need to be considered on case by case, and so there are some things to keep in mind before going through the results
- CHARACTERS -
Once again, I went with whose characters are the ones that are playable in Smash, which means that Mega Man is the Classic Rock we know from the NES days (not X, not Volnutt, not .EXE and so on..), and the Dragon Quest Heroes are Erdrick, Solo, Eight and Luminary/Eleven; BUT, there are the exceptions on the rule:
- Snake is undebatable Solid Snake in Smash, the protag of certain particular titles in the Metal Gear franchise, but, as much Donkey Kong in Smash is referred as the original Arcade character, while the one playable is clearly using the likeness of the character introduced in Donkey Kong Country, Snake is also a mix of Solid Snake and the face of young Big Boss from MGS3! With that, I accounted the whole set of "Snakes" for his timeline... (though if I didn't, that would subtract just.. one game lol); Note that this is how Smash deals with characters like Link as well;
- Sonic and Pac-Man also got some variations of their selfs in many games; Boom Sonic, Ghostly Adventures Pacster, didn't much matter in the end... these were also accounted; firstly for Sonic, because before his inclusion there was no such thing as different versions of the character but just redesigns of the same character; and for Pac-Man, I used as evidence how Bandai NAMCO themselves handled the IP in things like Pac-Man Museum and even Nintendo themselves used the ever so beloved GA game as part of promotion for Pac's inclusion in Smash4;
This is was the most daunting of going through, because I know not everyone will agree with my stipulations, but I had to draw the line somewhere, if not so many would have their numbers inflated by certain metrics.. and even so, they still got away with a bunch of same games repackaged in different circumstances; but here what I decided:
- When a game is released for the very first time on a Nintendo console, I do account it;.. but if it end being re-released or ported for another system with no significant changes, rebranding or part of a collection (say.. Bayonetta 1 and 2 on Switch), they weren't accounted;
- As mentioned, when the game have same content, but some changes were made to accomodate new hardware, or it's part of a compilation (even if previously was already part of other compilations and even it got re-released standalone before), they are accounted; -But, say if a game gets released on a SNK compilation on the Wii, but later released alone in the Arcade Archives on Switch, it wasn't accounted;
- CAMEOS AND COSTUMES -
I also decided to establish certain way to view those.. minor cameos shouldn't have much of a significance on the character history I don't think.. It's a nod sometimes and a not much beyond that; and so are costumes, when given the context, it's just another character wearing the clothes or skin (yuck) of another
- Cameos have to be of real substance; the character needs to be there, physically (officially licensed too, of course), not be just a vague reference and it needs to be more than just a billboard texture, a little background element, and preferentially have a certain role on the game they appear; be part of a quest, have dialogue, interactions; it depends on the game and what it means there... like, be a card in a card game should count!;
- Costumes and Skins also are a more tricky subject than it seems, especially when we go down to the Fortnite and Minecraft rabbit holes.. The character needs to be presented as themselves and not an avatar wearing their likeness; Minecraft skins are not all built the same... The Banjo skin, for example, is just a normal texture change, while Pac-Man and Sonic got their whole packs that change how you play the game and/or are limited somewhat on their usage. While Fortnite, despite being just cosmetic changes, have shown in trailers that characters are themselves brought from their worlds;
Finally.. despite all what I said, it's arbitrary; I was having fun doing the research, but it also took me awhile to do this and illustrate on mockups, so I had to cut corners too; So don't mind if this sounds wrong to you in certain aspects; I'm open to criticism, of course!
Let's start showing a basic chart of all our guests and their first appearance on a Nintendo system, before going to their individual timelines:
Yep, every single one of them had at least one appearance (not matter how big it was) on a Nintendo system prior their inclusions in Super Smash Bros.! Not stating that none of that matters much of the end of the day, but it's a streak that wasn't broken at all until the very end of Ultimate!.. It's a courtesy not a rule, and Sakurai himself said so when Cloud joined the battle:
Let's get on the meat and potatoes of this, shall we? Games are organized by release date, regardless if the content in reference to said characters were added later as DLC or updates
and there you have it! the "misgivings" that Sakurai once mentioned were never ever an issue throughout the whole set of guest fighters and that probably will paint the discussion for future Smash games (even if shouldn't be taken that seriously..); -If you want a summarized version in numbers, here it is: LINK
Here's a couple of fun trivias about all of this:
- The Switch is the only place where most of these guest has at least a single appearance (Banjo with or without the NSO re-release whatever floats your boat; and Kazuya is missing altogether);
- In any point of all the Nintendo history, we could play most of the games these characters originally debuted; Lacking just Persona 5 and Tekken 1; LINK
That's it.. hope you enjoyed this rundown of mostly useless information; I don't know how much of this will be outdated soon and how people will use as references for thre future, but it was fun to research and put everything together tho! Forgive me the couple of typos here and there and if do have any questions on the selections, just let me know!
Since Brawl on the Wii, Smash has opened the floodgates for 3rd Party companies have their characters in this incredibly lucrative marketing opportunity and be part of gaming's biggest celebration; And with Ultimate capping off its DLC and certainly without more Smash discussion for a couple of years from now, I finally concluded this little analysis of these characters and their presence on Nintendo hardware (outside Smash itself);
This is all about the particular characters from 3rd Party companies that are playable in Smash Bros. and how many times they popped up on Nintendo systems before and after their inclusions in the Smash franchise; Not much on the series they come from, not much discussing on said companies and their support on Nintendo systems (Capcom on N64 is the biggest tragedy ever told...), but the icons whose occupies about 20% of Ultimate's roster.
But first, I have to rundown some guidelines I had to establish for myself before going after all those games.. because, you see, there's ports, costumes and so much other factors need to be considered on case by case, and so there are some things to keep in mind before going through the results
- CHARACTERS -
Once again, I went with whose characters are the ones that are playable in Smash, which means that Mega Man is the Classic Rock we know from the NES days (not X, not Volnutt, not .EXE and so on..), and the Dragon Quest Heroes are Erdrick, Solo, Eight and Luminary/Eleven; BUT, there are the exceptions on the rule:
- Snake is undebatable Solid Snake in Smash, the protag of certain particular titles in the Metal Gear franchise, but, as much Donkey Kong in Smash is referred as the original Arcade character, while the one playable is clearly using the likeness of the character introduced in Donkey Kong Country, Snake is also a mix of Solid Snake and the face of young Big Boss from MGS3! With that, I accounted the whole set of "Snakes" for his timeline... (though if I didn't, that would subtract just.. one game lol); Note that this is how Smash deals with characters like Link as well;
- Sonic and Pac-Man also got some variations of their selfs in many games; Boom Sonic, Ghostly Adventures Pacster, didn't much matter in the end... these were also accounted; firstly for Sonic, because before his inclusion there was no such thing as different versions of the character but just redesigns of the same character; and for Pac-Man, I used as evidence how Bandai NAMCO themselves handled the IP in things like Pac-Man Museum and even Nintendo themselves used the ever so beloved GA game as part of promotion for Pac's inclusion in Smash4;
in conclusion: LINK
- PORTS AND RE-RELEASES -
This is was the most daunting of going through, because I know not everyone will agree with my stipulations, but I had to draw the line somewhere, if not so many would have their numbers inflated by certain metrics.. and even so, they still got away with a bunch of same games repackaged in different circumstances; but here what I decided:
- When a game is released for the very first time on a Nintendo console, I do account it;.. but if it end being re-released or ported for another system with no significant changes, rebranding or part of a collection (say.. Bayonetta 1 and 2 on Switch), they weren't accounted;
- As mentioned, when the game have same content, but some changes were made to accomodate new hardware, or it's part of a compilation (even if previously was already part of other compilations and even it got re-released standalone before), they are accounted; -But, say if a game gets released on a SNK compilation on the Wii, but later released alone in the Arcade Archives on Switch, it wasn't accounted;
- CAMEOS AND COSTUMES -
I also decided to establish certain way to view those.. minor cameos shouldn't have much of a significance on the character history I don't think.. It's a nod sometimes and a not much beyond that; and so are costumes, when given the context, it's just another character wearing the clothes or skin (yuck) of another
- Cameos have to be of real substance; the character needs to be there, physically (officially licensed too, of course), not be just a vague reference and it needs to be more than just a billboard texture, a little background element, and preferentially have a certain role on the game they appear; be part of a quest, have dialogue, interactions; it depends on the game and what it means there... like, be a card in a card game should count!;
- Costumes and Skins also are a more tricky subject than it seems, especially when we go down to the Fortnite and Minecraft rabbit holes.. The character needs to be presented as themselves and not an avatar wearing their likeness; Minecraft skins are not all built the same... The Banjo skin, for example, is just a normal texture change, while Pac-Man and Sonic got their whole packs that change how you play the game and/or are limited somewhat on their usage. While Fortnite, despite being just cosmetic changes, have shown in trailers that characters are themselves brought from their worlds;
Finally.. despite all what I said, it's arbitrary; I was having fun doing the research, but it also took me awhile to do this and illustrate on mockups, so I had to cut corners too; So don't mind if this sounds wrong to you in certain aspects; I'm open to criticism, of course!
Let's start showing a basic chart of all our guests and their first appearance on a Nintendo system, before going to their individual timelines:
Yep, every single one of them had at least one appearance (not matter how big it was) on a Nintendo system prior their inclusions in Super Smash Bros.! Not stating that none of that matters much of the end of the day, but it's a streak that wasn't broken at all until the very end of Ultimate!.. It's a courtesy not a rule, and Sakurai himself said so when Cloud joined the battle:
Source: Source Gaminng
Let's get on the meat and potatoes of this, shall we? Games are organized by release date, regardless if the content in reference to said characters were added later as DLC or updates
The Tactical Espionage expert sneaked into Nintendo's fighting series and since then Smash has never been the same! Originally asked by Hideo Kojima himself to be part of Melee's roster, ended on the Wii entry and by that point, despite of the heavy association with the PlayStation brand, Snake had a healthy history with Nintendo, including the at the time still recent released remake Twin Snakes! And AFTER his inclusion, he'd pop on more occasions on Nintendo hardware than what Konami was willing to do usually;
Yes, he was in two Scribblenauts games only in Japan; and also had a cameo in a Yu-Gi-Oh! game, which... could be debatable, but since it's also a Konami IP, no need to be shy about it.
Yes, he was in two Scribblenauts games only in Japan; and also had a cameo in a Yu-Gi-Oh! game, which... could be debatable, but since it's also a Konami IP, no need to be shy about it.
What it needs to be said about Mario's long rival from the 90's? Sonic was the perfect candidate for Smash and by many the only guest that the series ever needed! And sure enough.. by the point Sakurai managed to get Sonic in Brawl, SEGA had already flooded Nintendo systems with both new releases and classics with the blue blur; And.. it hasn't slowed down a bit since then... heh..
Worth pointing out the Arcade collaborations with Nintendo's IPs, which isn't an exclusive situation for Sonic, but it counts all the same.
Worth pointing out the Arcade collaborations with Nintendo's IPs, which isn't an exclusive situation for Sonic, but it counts all the same.
Super Fighting Robot used to be Capcom's face and for a good while, Rock has always guaranteed presence on a Nintendo system, that less informed people would even think he's part of Nintendo's catalog! Heck he was even in Captain N, after all! But soon things would shift when other sub-series would be introduced like Mega Man X and the Classic series wouldn't get as much representation as their younger brothers;
Again, good to say that is about Mega Man as a character and not as the overall series, because sure we weren't in shortage of Mega Man games during the GBA and DS days...
Again, good to say that is about Mega Man as a character and not as the overall series, because sure we weren't in shortage of Mega Man games during the GBA and DS days...
The yellow muncher represents not just the face of Bandai NAMCO, but video games as a whole, surpassing even Mario himself! And the symbolism of his inclusion also has the legacy of NAMCOT becoming the Famicom's first 3rd Party licensee! With a whole game being designed by Miyamoto and constantly appearing in Mario Kart on arcades, Pac was a no brainer!
Yeah there are lot versions of simply the Arcade game ported for consoles and handhelds, but I had to be sure those are different with a significant margin (and they are... trust me..); Also Tengen games were ultimately deemed illegal and demanded to stop being sold, but during its brief period on the market and while Atari had an epic lawsuit with Nintendo, those games were as legit as NAMCOT's own efforts (I recommend the Gaming Historian videos on the matter for more info)
Yeah there are lot versions of simply the Arcade game ported for consoles and handhelds, but I had to be sure those are different with a significant margin (and they are... trust me..); Also Tengen games were ultimately deemed illegal and demanded to stop being sold, but during its brief period on the market and while Atari had an epic lawsuit with Nintendo, those games were as legit as NAMCOT's own efforts (I recommend the Gaming Historian videos on the matter for more info)
There was a time I run a support thread for Ryu on Smashboards and I had to defend that Street Fighter had legacy with Nintendo... like, WHAT?! of course it does, the SNES version of SFII World Warrior it's the 5th best selling game in the system and the only 3rd Party title! lol ... Oh well, what matters is that Ryu got to yet again CLASH with a NEW AGE OF HEROES and be the ULTIMATE ALL-STAR
This is one of the lists I'm sure will be outdated quickly, much like Sonic's; The Fight is Everything...
This is one of the lists I'm sure will be outdated quickly, much like Sonic's; The Fight is Everything...
The shocking reveal of Cloud Strife is, somewhat, what made people realize that everything was on table for guests! "He didn't appear on a Nintendo system!" they said.. and yes he did! And yes it counts! Cloud's main adventure took a while to pop up on Nintendo's systems (in a cartridge no less!), but he was already showing his spiky hair on spinoffs
A modest timeline compared to his fellow guests, for sure; but still valid! He didn't break any new ground guys, settle it up! Fun Fact: Final Fantasy Explorers had a big segment on the exact same Direct he was revealed for Smash!
A modest timeline compared to his fellow guests, for sure; but still valid! He didn't break any new ground guys, settle it up! Fun Fact: Final Fantasy Explorers had a big segment on the exact same Direct he was revealed for Smash!
Said to be an honorary Nintendo character at this point and the Ballot "winner" for Smash4, the Umbra Witch Bayonetta sure has to be a long history, right?
Well that's not fair, of course, she's still super young in the industry (despite of the canon age..) and we have yet see the franchise take off for real, so here's hoping Bayo 3 is a tremendous success and she starts be added everywhere as the labor of love of Nintendo, SEGA and Platinum!
Well that's not fair, of course, she's still super young in the industry (despite of the canon age..) and we have yet see the franchise take off for real, so here's hoping Bayo 3 is a tremendous success and she starts be added everywhere as the labor of love of Nintendo, SEGA and Platinum!
Castlevania is one of the cases, much like Mega Man, that the bulk of its legacy is heavily associated with Nintendo, and no Symphony of the Night will EVER change that... (ahem..); Hey Simon was ALSO in Captain N, in a way... And so, the natural progression for getting the whole saturday morning crew together is having the vampire hunter in Smash!
And the timeline also doesn't lie,.. doesn't matter if it's Death Note's Simon or beard rebooted LoS Simon, he's always there somewhere seeking for roasted meat on the walls
And the timeline also doesn't lie,.. doesn't matter if it's Death Note's Simon or beard rebooted LoS Simon, he's always there somewhere seeking for roasted meat on the walls
What about the younger generation of the Belmont lineage? Richter also had a start with a not so acclaimed SNES game, but the wrongs were corrected when Rondo of Blood released internationally on the Wii Virtual Console!
Still not surprising he wasn't as around on Nintendo as Simon, but not completely lacking of appearances either!
Still not surprising he wasn't as around on Nintendo as Simon, but not completely lacking of appearances either!
As much Ken would like, he's not as predominant in crossover and cameo appearances as Ryu, but still, Street Fighter had its share of entries on Nintendo systems and so Ken has to be there for the ride!
The banana hair martial artist missed on things like TvC and Power Rangers, but I debated if I should had included his Trophy in Smash4.. but ended dropping because that would be the sole exception of including a Smash game in those timelines;
The banana hair martial artist missed on things like TvC and Power Rangers, but I debated if I should had included his Trophy in Smash4.. but ended dropping because that would be the sole exception of including a Smash game in those timelines;
Here's where yet another discussion on the Nintendo apparences got a resurgence; But Joker can steal hearts around more than on PlayStation, and he managed to get a couple of appearances before the grand Smash debut!
As I mentioned earlier, games are organized by their release dates and the Dragalia Lost collaboration happened long after his Smash inclusion; But the Phantasy Star Oline 2 did not! It did got a Dancing in Starlight event where P5 characters would show up on stage to dance and that wasn't restricted for PS4 players!
Also, I should make the observation that currently I have no info if the upcoming Another Eden port on Switch will include the Persona 5 content (which by my research was a permanent inclusion on mobile), but if does.. here it is for future proof!
As I mentioned earlier, games are organized by their release dates and the Dragalia Lost collaboration happened long after his Smash inclusion; But the Phantasy Star Oline 2 did not! It did got a Dancing in Starlight event where P5 characters would show up on stage to dance and that wasn't restricted for PS4 players!
Also, I should make the observation that currently I have no info if the upcoming Another Eden port on Switch will include the Persona 5 content (which by my research was a permanent inclusion on mobile), but if does.. here it is for future proof!
Man.. let me tell you.. I also tried to go by franchises first when doing these timelines, and Dragon Quest would absolutely demolish any of the other guest in terms of appearances! But this is about the specific Heroes that are playable in Smash, and.. despite the lack of info on many spinoffs out there, I managed to get a comprehensive list of appearences
Note that the Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake has no platforms announced yet.. (hoping Square doesn't pull the carpet underneath us and announces for mobile only...), but there's lot of different versions of DQIII on Nintendo systems already naturally
Note that the Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake has no platforms announced yet.. (hoping Square doesn't pull the carpet underneath us and announces for mobile only...), but there's lot of different versions of DQIII on Nintendo systems already naturally
The funny thing about Banjo and Kazooie is that at one point they weren't 3rd Party characters and were fully owned by Nintendo themselves, but alas... times have changed and nothing much has changed in the catalog of games of bear and bird;
The NSO inclusion won't change anything here either, since by the guidelines I established, wouldn't be the first time Banjo-Kazooie was playable on Nintendo hardware.. (now if they released the XBLA version would be a different story...)
The NSO inclusion won't change anything here either, since by the guidelines I established, wouldn't be the first time Banjo-Kazooie was playable on Nintendo hardware.. (now if they released the XBLA version would be a different story...)
The different side of the coin happened when South Town wolf showed up; Terry was for many an unexpected inclusion for different reasons of Joker or Cloud, but because many thought he was an obscure choice (lol, as a brazilian I always thought this funny as heck).. but look at this, Terry was slowly crawling to get his deserved place in Smash!
Having a perfect attendance on The King of Fighters games also helps, of course, but you see.. when they had an otome visual novel on the DS, Terry was the perfect choice too
Having a perfect attendance on The King of Fighters games also helps, of course, but you see.. when they had an otome visual novel on the DS, Terry was the perfect choice too
Minecraft is bigger than Steve and Alex, that's no discussion; People call them "Minecraft Steve/Alex" for a reason! But early days of the simulator was interesting with Steve having presence on games like Super Meat Boy as an unlockable character on the PC and Xbox 360.. and that's how he ended in Retro City Rampage on the WiiWare in 2013, before even Minecraft being on Wii U.. that got me good.
Also, many Minecraft spinoffs have a Steve/Alex references here and there, even if they are not the main characters or default skin, but I decided to go just the Minecraft Dungeons skin because they are labeled by name.
Also, many Minecraft spinoffs have a Steve/Alex references here and there, even if they are not the main characters or default skin, but I decided to go just the Minecraft Dungeons skin because they are labeled by name.
With the all the jokes about Sephiroth following Cloud around so he can torment him, you'd expect that timeline to be somewhat similar to the ex-SOLDIER right? But he missed a couple of Kingdom Hearts titles
Fitting that someone as sophisticated as him would only debut in a Theatrhythm game!
Fitting that someone as sophisticated as him would only debut in a Theatrhythm game!
No beating around the bush... Kazuya has the least amount of appearances on Nintendo hardware of all the guests; it's pitiful! And Bamco doesn't seem to willingful to bring any old Tekken games to the Switch... they should but, this is not a port beg thread!
Funnily enough, Heihachi have a bigger amount with Tekken Advance, Pac-Man Fever and being on the first Project X Zone game unlike Kazuya! .. I am not saying it should have been Heihachi instead... but it should have been Heihachi instead
Funnily enough, Heihachi have a bigger amount with Tekken Advance, Pac-Man Fever and being on the first Project X Zone game unlike Kazuya! .. I am not saying it should have been Heihachi instead... but it should have been Heihachi instead
We conclude with the Destiny Island refugee that let dinner get cold on the table and his mom waiting so he could beat Jafar with a big key! Frankly, despite the tiny timeline you see, Sora's natural fit when comes to Nintendo audiences, since the handheld adventures were always there and therefore big slice of its fandom are Nintendo fans as well! And thanks to Square... efforts, soon we will get the entire KH franchise on Nintendo systems!
and there you have it! the "misgivings" that Sakurai once mentioned were never ever an issue throughout the whole set of guest fighters and that probably will paint the discussion for future Smash games (even if shouldn't be taken that seriously..); -If you want a summarized version in numbers, here it is: LINK
Here's a couple of fun trivias about all of this:
- The Switch is the only place where most of these guest has at least a single appearance (Banjo with or without the NSO re-release whatever floats your boat; and Kazuya is missing altogether);
- In any point of all the Nintendo history, we could play most of the games these characters originally debuted; Lacking just Persona 5 and Tekken 1; LINK
That's it.. hope you enjoyed this rundown of mostly useless information; I don't know how much of this will be outdated soon and how people will use as references for thre future, but it was fun to research and put everything together tho! Forgive me the couple of typos here and there and if do have any questions on the selections, just let me know!
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It was a pleasure to make our minds occupied during Smash speculation 
