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News Stephen Totilo - Nintendo says some of the original Mario & Luigi developers are working on Brothership

oldpuck said:
Similarly, DKCRHD looks r o u g h in all the ways I'd expect from Forever Entertainment, but the blame solely lives on Nintendo for not investing the care necessary into DK.
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The remaster of Donkey Kong Country Returns is a good example in my opinion that the price is set by the publisher and is a criterion to consider.

Having an absolutely basic port, with a simple HD smoothing and 3DS levels suits me very well personally and asking a studio to make this sport quickly, most likely in just a few months, seems consistent. On the other hand if you do this you do not sell it for 60 dollars, there is just a discrepancy between the price you ask and the effort you put into it as a publisher.
 
JorgenRaft said:
Hey if we're assuming the reasoning, sure!
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I mean, it's an extremely logical reason given online reactions especially when certain studios are involved. People are speculating ILCA are working on the new Mario & Luigi and are already acting like shitheads about it just based on the fact that the studio made BDSP on a time crunch.
 
Hailinel said:
I mean, it's an extremely logical reason given online reactions especially when certain studios are involved. People are speculating ILCA are working on the new Mario & Luigi and are already acting like shitheads about it just based on the fact that the studio made BDSP on a time crunch.
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Whether that is the reason or not, it doesn't make much sense to me given the dev is ultimately revealed in a few months anyways, leaving them open to said harassment.

Hence, why I think it's weird regardless (at least as far as any of the ideas we've come up with so far).
 
boodream said:
On the day of the release of the game, if everyone appears in the credits, we can absolutely not talk about secrecy in my opinion. Once your work is recognized in the credits, you can put it on your resume. Not six months later but as soon as the game exists in commerce finally.

Honestly, I don’t understand why this is controversial. What is bad and unbearable is when the work of some people is not recognized, like what happened with Mercury steam lately. But not pleasing us as members of Fami seems a little trivial to me, right?
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I've always wanted to ask.

The women in your profile picture, is that the same actress in the Nintendo Switch reveal trailer playing Mario Odyssey? "Nintendo Karen"?
 
JorgenRaft said:
Whether that is the reason or not, it doesn't make much sense to me given the dev is ultimately revealed in a few months anyways, leaving them open to said harassment.

Hence, why I think it's weird regardless (at least as far as any of the ideas we've come up with so far).
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Because they don't want people harassing developers still actively working on a game based on whatever dumbass preconceived notions they have on what the game will be like just based on the developer's name.
 
Hailinel said:
I mean, it's an extremely logical reason given online reactions especially when certain studios are involved. People are speculating ILCA are working on the new Mario & Luigi and are already acting like shitheads about it just based on the fact that the studio made BDSP on a time crunch.
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And even if it's not related to chuds and harassment campaigns, I'm sure Nintendo would rather get to a point where almost everything they attach their name to is seen as "Nintendo game", regardless of who's making it.

Harder for either the hardcore online discourse, or even the casual in Walmart just mulling over the purchase, to have thoughts either way, if it's just mostly seen as just another Nintendo release.
 
In the end, if they get most of the most important people, like producer, directors and main artists, to at least supervise the game then we should be fine really.
 
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Concernt said:
I've always wanted to ask.

The women in your profile picture, is that the same actress in the Nintendo Switch reveal trailer playing Mario Odyssey? "Nintendo Karen"?
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She is a character from Severence, which is probably my favorite TV series right now. The actress’s name is Britt Lower.
 
JorgenRaft said:
Nintendo's secrecy about developers is really one of the weirdest things, man.
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Is it?

  • SE Creative Business 1: Kingdom Hearts MOM
  • SE Creative Business 2: Every Team Asano game
  • SE Creative Business 4: Pixel Remasters
  • Other SE games: Paranormasight, Trials of Mana, etc
  • Konami with their collections and Yugioh games
  • Capcom with their collections
  • Bandai with their remasters.

To name a few. Like all the previous ones, there are exceptions within each company. We know: Virtous is making MGS3, Osaka Studio is making Visions of Mana, ILCA made SandLand and Ardink is helping with DQ3

Is it weird, sure, but its pretty common at least with some of the big japanese publishers. Why they do it? Idk🤷‍♂️, we can only assume. One reason is the harassments of devs which they aren't strangers to it, remember the Smash 4 DLC ballot, that was a secret for a reason. We shall see if they change their stands
 
ILovethegameAC said:
Do Good Feel have a horrible reputation or something? Some people didn't like Yoshi's Crafted World but that's it really. Showtime didn't have a horrible reception or anything.
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They do with me. If I remember correctly a lot of people weren’t thrilled to hear they were behind Peach when it was first revealed either.
 
I mean the game looks fine so far. Not much we can really gather from what they showed us so far. Honestly probably not until reviews.

I hope they kept the hard mode from dream team. That was very fun for me.
 
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ILovethegameAC said:
Do Good Feel have a horrible reputation or something? Some people didn't like Yoshi's Crafted World but that's it really. Showtime didn't have a horrible reception or anything.
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GoodFeel head is the creator of Goemon series (he left konami to form the studio) and a lifelong proponent of easier games. Some might not appreciate his opinions, so far every game GoodFeel has made has been on the easier side of the Nintendo difficulty spectrum.
 
Please refrain from directly insulting other users for their opinions. -TC, Zellia, meatbag, BassForever
Brock Reiher said:
If it’s ILCA I’m afraid that’s a “wait for deep deep sale” game. Can’t blame Nintendo for trying to hide it like they did with Peach and Good Feel.
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Brock Reiher said:
Like I said, I can’t blame them.
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Brock Reiher said:
They do with me. If I remember correctly a lot of people weren’t thrilled to hear they were behind Peach when it was first revealed either.
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Congrats on singlehandedly proving the larger point like a jackass.
 
Brock Reiher said:
That is true but they also weren’t the developers of the original, which Nintendo seems to value. So in this case it could be seen as a bad thing they’d want to hide.
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Devs of the originals work at ArcSys now. That's why Nintendo worked with the studio on Another Code.
 
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It could be as easy as Nintendo thinking a game having another developer front and center makes it seen as a B-rank Nintendo game for some customers while the game gets more an A-rank if its seen as being made by Nintendo themselves.
 
Brock Reiher said:
That is true but they also weren’t the developers of the original, which Nintendo seems to value. So in this case it could be seen as a bad thing they’d want to hide.
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The original devs went out of business, Another Code is a niche franchise there was nothing to hide. They had to contract some other dev and they're not in the business of advertising who is developing. They also didn't advertise NLG or Grezzo when games developed by them came out.
 
Hailinel said:
Because they don't want people harassing developers still actively working on a game based on whatever dumbass preconceived notions they have on what the game will be like just based on the developer's name.
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Yes you’ve explained this and I understand that. That’s still assuming this is the reason but I’d still find it weird considering the devs are revealed shortly after anyways. That’s really it. I’m not saying they’re unreasonable as we still don’t know why they do this. If you disagree, then that’s fine.
 
fluttersusagi said:
why are they like thissssss ughhhhh
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I once read a very good post about this somewhere that explains why - Nintendo wants you to think of these games as Nintendo games first, non-Nintendo studio games second. They have exceptions for this - if Nintendo is actively working with a 3rd party for the "style" of that 3rd party, then they will just openly say as such. MercurySteam's Metroid is named that because it has a specific identity that's different from Retro Studios or R&D1 Metroid for example. Similarly, their three Warriors tie-in games were just openly stated as being Omega Force titles since well, Warriors is the thing that 3rd party is heavily known for.

As far as Nintendo is concerned, Brothership is going to be a Nintendo game first, following the Nintendo-created identity for Mario Bros. They did the same thing with Next Level Games' work on Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon and Luigi's Mansion 3.
 
Danny said:
It could be as easy as Nintendo thinking a game having another developer front and center makes it seen as a B-rank Nintendo game for some customers while the game gets more an A-rank if its seen as being made by Nintendo themselves.
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It’s a little different if it’s someone like Next Level Games or Game Freak or Intelligent Systems who has a certain pedigree, but otherwise yeah. It makes sense you want to put your best foot forward.
 
ILCA have grown significantly into being one of the biggest workhorse studios in Japan these past few years, and we're going to be seeing a lot more of them in the future. Both One Piece Odyssey and Sand Land were games that punched above their own weight, and they're also heading up an Ace Combat game. With Nintendo most likely having a hand in co-development for Brothership much like we've seen on similar recent collaborative ventures, as well as veteran staff making it over, I think this has a good chance of being well worthy of this franchise's legacy. That initial trailer looked extremely good, so I have little reason to doubt this won't be a good time.
 
SirArthur said:
Is it?

Is it weird, sure
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That’s what I’m saying lmao. I know it isn’t a Nintendo exclusive situation. It’s just one of those things I always found odd in general, especially since it’s so often a case by case thing. And the fact that apparently no one has ever asked these publishers about this (or at least gotten an answer) just adds on to the strangeness.
 
Razgriz said:
I once read a very good post about this somewhere that explains why - Nintendo wants you to think of these games as Nintendo games first, non-Nintendo studio games second. They have exceptions for this - if Nintendo is actively working with a 3rd party for the "style" of that 3rd party, then they will just openly say as such. MercurySteam's Metroid is named that because it has a specific identity that's different from Retro Studios or R&D1 Metroid for example. Similarly, their three Warriors tie-in games were just openly stated as being Omega Force titles since well, Warriors is the thing that 3rd party is heavily known for.

As far as Nintendo is concerned, Brothership is going to be a Nintendo game first, following the Nintendo-created identity for Mario Bros. They did the same thing with Next Level Games' work on Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon and Luigi's Mansion 3.
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There might also be a legal element to this as well.

In terms of MercurySteam, that seems to fit with the fact that Western developers seem to be able to announce their involvement upon reveal (Forever Entertainment, Velan Studios, Wayforward). But for Intelligent Systems and Omega Force, in both cases project's copyright information reflects the other companies involvement in the project. So perhaps they must legally disclose that information unlike the cases with Luigi's Mansion 3 where only Nintendo's copyright is present. Maybe someone can find a contradictory example though.


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JorgenRaft said:
That’s what I’m saying lmao. I know it isn’t a Nintendo exclusive situation. It’s just one of those things I always found odd in general, especially since it’s so often a case by case thing. And the fact that apparently no one has ever asked these publishers about this (or at least gotten an answer) just adds on to the strangeness.
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One factor could be the lack of access to the companies and when schedule interviews happen. For example, lets say IGN interviews Aonuma for EoW, they probably wont be asking about Mario & Luigi or vice versa. And even if they ask via email or representative, they will get a PR answer. So either they tell us or people deduce it based on team availability.
 
boodream said:
The remaster of Donkey Kong Country Returns is a good example in my opinion that the price is set by the publisher and is a criterion to consider.

Having an absolutely basic port, with a simple HD smoothing and 3DS levels suits me very well personally and asking a studio to make this sport quickly, most likely in just a few months, seems consistent. On the other hand if you do this you do not sell it for 60 dollars, there is just a discrepancy between the price you ask and the effort you put into it as a publisher.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm not sure that Tears of the Kingdom should cost $150 because of its level of effort. Or that the efforts of Retro to make the game originally have been so deeply devalued over time, that the game's value is only in the amount of effort the publisher took in converting it to HD.

Most people here are double dippers, and are viewing it over whether the upgrade is worth $60. To 135 million Switch owners, it's a brand new game (it sold less than 7 million units on the Wii). That includes me.

I don't plan on buying it, because I didn't particularly enjoy Tropical Freeze. I will be buying Luigi's Mansion 2 because I really enjoyed 3. If I turn out to feel like 2 wasn't worth it - either it's graphically too weak, or the gameplay doesn't hold up, then they will have burned me and I'll be less likely to consider another remaster.
 
Does Nintendo ever reveal their dev partners for games of non-new IPs? One of the few recent cases I can remember of them revealing an external dev was Platinum on Astral Chain.
 
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9-Volt said:
GoodFeel head is the creator of Goemon series (he left konami to form the studio) and a lifelong proponent of easier games. Some might not appreciate his opinions, so far every game GoodFeel has made has been on the easier side of the Nintendo difficulty spectrum.
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easy games like contra,life force, castlevania circle of the moon and wario land shake ?
 
MetalLord said:
easy games like contra,life force, castlevania circle of the moon and wario land shake ?
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I was talking about Etsunobu Ebisu. He did the N64 Castlevania games, while Koji Igarashi did all the rest. Ebisu's CV games, 64 and Legacy of Darkness are much easier compared to Igavanias. They're still great games, very different 3D games than the usual Iga stuff. I'd love GoodFeel to work with Konami again to remake them.

And yes, Wario Land Shake It was super easy. Compared to that Wario Land 2 feels like Dark Souls lol
 
9-Volt said:
I was talking about Etsunobu Ebisu. He did the N64 Castlevania games, while Koji Igarashi did all the rest. Ebisu's CV games, 64 and Legacy of Darkness are much easier compared to Igavanias. They're still great games, very different 3D games than the usual Iga stuff. I'd love GoodFeel to work with Konami again to remake them.

And yes, Wario Land Shake It was super easy. Compared to that Wario Land 2 feels like Dark Souls lol
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circle of the moon is not a igarashi game,its by konami kobe office and ebisu and other future good feel staff produced it

the main game maybe, getting all the objectives is harder than all wario land games and even tropical freeze, things like completing stages without touching coins or enemies,10 minute boss battles with 1 one kill
 
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Hailinel said:
If you think it's weird to not publicize a specific partner studio so that it's staff isn't harassed to hell and back by idiot gamers, then sure.
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Because they don't want people harassing developers still actively working on a game based on whatever dumbass preconceived notions they have on what the game will be like just based on the developer's name.
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I think it's weird that you assume this suddenly became a major problem in like, the last year when it evidently never was in the previous decades, and it's not a problem the rest of the industry has at all.

Nintendo is trying to do this because they don't want these titles associated with the actual people developing them and instead want the credit for their brand and nobody else, and no matter how you try and square it, that's an incredibly raw deal for anyone who decides to work with them. Don't try and spin this as Nintendo doing anyone else a favour.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
I think it's weird that you assume this suddenly became a major problem in like, the last year when it evidently never was in the previous decades, and it's not a problem the rest of the industry has at all.

Nintendo is trying to do this because they don't want these titles associated with the actual people developing them and instead want the credit for their brand and nobody else, and no matter how you try and square it, that's an incredibly raw deal for anyone who decides to work with them. Don't try and spin this as Nintendo doing anyone else a favour.
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If they're not being left out of the credits, they're not being screwed over.
 
APileofBananas said:
There might also be a legal element to this as well.

In terms of MercurySteam, that seems to fit with the fact that Western developers seem to be able to announce their involvement upon reveal (Forever Entertainment, Velan Studios, Wayforward). But for Intelligent Systems and Omega Force, in both cases project's copyright information reflects the other companies involvement in the project. So perhaps they must legally disclose that information unlike the cases with Luigi's Mansion 3 where only Nintendo's copyright is present. Maybe someone can find a contradictory example though.


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the only reason they appear in there is because they co-own the IP (or the game like HW). copyright has nothing to do on who develop what but which companies own or co-own it. There's a reason Square Enix kingdom hearts has no SE copyright and only disney, even though they both publish and develop it lol
 
APileofBananas said:
There might also be a legal element to this as well.

In terms of MercurySteam, that seems to fit with the fact that Western developers seem to be able to announce their involvement upon reveal (Forever Entertainment, Velan Studios, Wayforward). But for Intelligent Systems and Omega Force, in both cases project's copyright information reflects the other companies involvement in the project. So perhaps they must legally disclose that information unlike the cases with Luigi's Mansion 3 where only Nintendo's copyright is present. Maybe someone can find a contradictory example though.


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In the case with Hyrule Warriors, it says licensed by Nintendo. Nintendo couldn't hide the name if they wanted as its not their game
 
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oldpuck said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm not sure that Tears of the Kingdom should cost $150 because of its level of effort. Or that the efforts of Retro to make the game originally have been so deeply devalued over time, that the game's value is only in the amount of effort the publisher took in converting it to HD.

Most people here are double dippers, and are viewing it over whether the upgrade is worth $60. To 135 million Switch owners, it's a brand new game (it sold less than 7 million units on the Wii). That includes me.

I don't plan on buying it, because I didn't particularly enjoy Tropical Freeze. I will be buying Luigi's Mansion 2 because I really enjoyed 3. If I turn out to feel like 2 wasn't worth it - either it's graphically too weak, or the gameplay doesn't hold up, then they will have burned me and I'll be less likely to consider another remaster.
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This is the third release of the game, since it also exists on Nintendo 3DS.


I love this game, I will probably buy it the first day, I see a great personal value because for accessibility reasons it was difficult for me to play on Wii and I did not have it on Nintendo 3DS.

However, even as a fan, I think you can objectively differentiate between ports that add value (like improvements to Mario kart 8, like Bowser Fury added to an improved version of Super Mario 3D world, like the work done on Metroid Prime remaster) and re-releases like Pikmin 1+2, luigi’s Mansion 2, or Donkey Kong Country Returns in HD.

In my opinion, it is not about evaluating the work of developers at the time, it is about, on the contrary, to value the magnitude of the work now. I will buy the game because I like what it is, so my opinion is not necessarily related to my personal taste, rather a correlation between the investments made and the expected returns.

And that doesn’t prevent us from hoping for more such ports in the coming months, but I don’t think it’s disrespectful to differentiate between the work done on Arlo HD and Luigi’s Mansion 2 HD. Even if in reality the second game interests me much more than the first personally.
 
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