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Discussion Samus Aran chooses not to speak in Metroid Dread, and that makes all the difference - VentureBeat

Hero of Hyrule

Frieren the Slayer
Pronouns
He/Him
And by that I mean she seems like she moves from hero pose to hero pose flawlessly at all times. That’s not exactly true. But she is so often in a perfect fighting stance that it is deeply affecting when she lets that guard down.

And to me, that physicality speaks so much louder than endless voice acting. And it feels like the exact right amount of humanity to slip through the cracks of that armor — both the physical suit and the emotional guard she has put around herself due to her aloneness.

SOURCE

I know people have been (justifiably) angry about that bullshit Kotaku article from earlier today, so I figured I'd share this significantly superior read of her character that doesn't totally miss the point and ask her to literally "smile more girl". Please note the actual article may have spoilers if you have not yet finished Dread already.
 
Metroid: Other M demonstrates that more isn't necessarily better when it comes to character dialog and emotional moments. I do agree with the idea that the physicality helps greatly in characterizing Samus just as certain scenes in Doom (2016) helped make doomslayer into a compelling (or at least amusing) character with little need for dialog. Not every game needs constant chatter or melodrama, though it can work very well with a good script, voice direction and/or some sense of self-awareness (e.g. Kid Icarus: Uprising).
 
Metroid: Other M demonstrates that more isn't necessarily better when it comes to character dialog and emotional moments. I do agree with the idea that the physicality helps greatly in characterizing Samus just as certain scenes in Doom (2016) helped make doomslayer into a compelling (or at least amusing) character with little need for dialog. Not every game needs constant chatter or melodrama, though it can work very well with a good script, voice direction and/or some sense of self-awareness (e.g. Kid Icarus: Uprising).
It also depends on the kind of story in question. Kid Icarus Uprising is basically a Saturday morning cartoon, constant banter and quipping are essential to the story it is trying to tell and the tone and aesthetic it is trying to strike.

Metroid is very categorically not that. Samus monologuing like a Sony first party or MCU character would totally and completely undermine the kind of story it is trying to tell or the atmosphere it is trying to strike. And to be clear, this is without even getting into Nintendo's (lack of) suitability in terms of being able to do something like that justice.
 
I think there's a good balance in Dread so far. She doesn't NEED to talk all the time (especially when she's just by herself surviving in the environment).
But it was nice to see that she isn't completely silent either. There's nothing wrong with being a person of few words after all.
 
Dread Spoilers

Samus speaking with Quiet Robe in Dread is one of my favorite moments in the series and I'm fine if Samus never speak again... or at least until she have a good reason to do it again.
 
Dread Spoilers

Samus speaking with Quiet Robe in Dread is one of my favorite moments in the series and I'm fine if Samus never speak again... or at least until she have a good reason to do it again.
I am sure she'll speak again if necessary, she did in Fusion for example. She had a good reason to do so there, so we may see that in the future.
 
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I'm in the minority, I suppose, since I find Samus to be a deeply compelling hero, and wouldn't mind more insight as to what's going on inside her head, her thoughts on various aspects of the mission. Fusion gave us her opening narration, elevator monologues, and closing thoughts during the ending, and that was the perfect depiction of the character, in my view. It's primarily Other M to blame, when it comes to people being nervous about Samus speaking. That game had awful writing, and gave her the most monotone line delivery, on top of it. To this day, we still feel the ramifications of the damage Other M did to Metroid as a brand. It's still a sore subject for many, myself included, but I don't think it means Samus should be yet another on the long list of silent protagonists. I think they're overrated.

All that said, yes, that moment in Dread really hit.
 
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Yeah this article gets it, right from the first caption. How she appears and acts in Dread is more in line with the majority of the series and her appearances outside it like Smash Bros.

I was thinking about it after the Other M fluke thread. The more vulnerable, talkative Samus doesn’t speak to the character we play as in virtually every game. As a series that encouraged speed-running from the very beginning, Samus is always charging head first into every threat in front of her with confidence and looking awesome while doing it as she is the ultimate hero of the galaxy. Metroid Prime released the day before Fusion and sucked up pretty much all of the oxygen in the room in terms of reception so Prime became the definitive version that stuck in the public conscious. Three more Prime games later if you count Hunters (four if you count Pinball), not to mention Zero Mission and Smash Bros Brawl, and it’s no wonder everyone loudly rejected Other M.
 
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Protagonists who constantly talk to themselves because the developers don't trust the player to be able to figure out what to do next or what the character's motivations are is one of the absolute most annoying trends in modern games. Samus does speak in Dread, but only where it makes sense for her to do so. Like, where an actual human would speak. To another character. Not to herself. Not to her glorified AI mapping program. I appreciate the approach. Dread goes a different route and gives her quite a bit of characterization through her physicality.

This:

samus-metroid.gif


And this:

a7d3f5dad6bbd9c8679b43088473d6aa3e023055.gifv


Ooze personality and tells us quite a bit about who Samus is as a person. And her not making sarcastic Tony Stark/Nathan Drake style quips to Adam every time it tells her some bad news is also valid characterization.

That said, I wouldn't be at all opposed to future games giving her more scenes with other characters to bounce dialogue off of. Characters talking is a good thing. Just... not to themselves. It's always bad.

Not sure what's up with Kotaku's weird bone to pick with Metroid though.
 
Protagonists who constantly talk to themselves because the developers don't trust the player to be able to figure out what to do next or what the character's motivations are is one of the absolute most annoying trends in modern games. Samus does speak in Dread, but only where it makes sense for her to do so. Like, where an actual human would speak. To another character. Not to herself. Not to her glorified AI mapping program. I appreciate the approach. Dread goes a different route and gives her quite a bit of characterization through her physicality.

This:

samus-metroid.gif


And this:

a7d3f5dad6bbd9c8679b43088473d6aa3e023055.gifv


Ooze personality and tells us quite a bit about who Samus is as a person. And her not making sarcastic Tony Stark/Nathan Drake style quips to Adam every time it tells her some bad news is also valid characterization.

That said, I wouldn't be at all opposed to future games giving her more scenes with other characters to bounce dialogue off of. Characters talking is a good thing. Just... not to themselves. It's always bad.

Not sure what's up with Kotaku's weird bone to pick with Metroid though.
Damn, this just goes to show how different two people's view of a character can be from each other, since I actually really dislike moments like in those gifs. I'll explain.

Basically, Samus has never been a "showy" character with cinematics that make her look cool for the camera. She's always been a duty-bound professional, one that braces herself for a threat, and takes it seriously, even if it's a foe she's fought before. You can observe that both in the mainline series, and the Prime games. She's not cocky, she doesn't use one-liners, and she doesn't have very many "cool gals don't look at explosions" moments. These are a new side of the character that MercurySteam saw fit to create and explore, as this version of Samus is only really seen in their contributions to the series: Samus Returns and Dread. I'm going to assume most who are praising the above moments also quite enjoyed this bit from SR, where she doesn't even find the Diggernaut worth looking at, as she delivers the final blow:

GrandioseDaringHorse-size_restricted.gif


It's fine to enjoy the heck out of these moments by their simple, satisfying merit of being "badass", but it can be argued that they're incongruous with prior depictions of the character, which is why I'm not super big on them. Personal taste thing. I find the Diggernaut moment to be closer to something a DMC character might do, than Samus Aran.

A friend of mine referred to this depiction of Samus as an "overcorrection", in response to Other M's abysmal portrayal, and I do get that, too. At the end of the day, if I have to pick between "generic cool girl badass" Samus, and "NOTICE ME ADAM-SENPAI" Samus, I'll take the former, 100% of the time... but my favorite Samus will likely always be 1-4 and Prime 1-3 Samus. She was always awesome in those games, even before MercurySteam's "action hero" cinematics.
 
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The Prime games always had a lot of "cool" Samus, I feel, though they were balanced out by moments of levity or pathos

Thardus's last pebble hitting Samus on the head as she walks away from the explosion remains a great moment, as does her looking on in a very complicated stew of reflection as the Chozo Sanctuary burns and collapses

Dread's balance is similar to me, only when it goes loud, it goes loud
 
Basically, Samus has never been a "showy" character with cinematics that make her look cool for the camera. She's always been a duty-bound professional, one that braces herself for a threat, and takes it seriously, even if it's a foe she's fought before. You can observe that both in the mainline series, and the Prime games. She's not cocky, she doesn't use one-liners, and she doesn't have very many "cool gals don't look at explosions" moments.
One could also argue they simply never had the hardware for it. How do you show a cinematic, badass looking Samus on NES to GBA hardware? I'd argue Prime also had a few of these moments even.

It's definitely new under MS and can be a bit much sometimes, but her other subtle characterization doesn't suffer under it IMO. There's also very few of those moments and, admittedly, look awesome, so I'm fine with it personally. And if it becomes / stays a focus point on Samus' character, that's also great.
 
I haven't finished Dread yet so I won't read the article, but that snippet you quoted rings truth. The moment I heard her speak for the first time in Dread got me stunned and attentive, it gives weight to the moment. After 'The Baby' I was extremely nervous of how Samus would be in future titles and I'm glad to see that her character was given proper care once again.

I think there's a good balance in Dread so far. She doesn't NEED to talk all the time (especially when she's just by herself surviving in the environment).
But it was nice to see that she isn't completely silent either. There's nothing wrong with being a person of few words after all.

Hey Jaw, happy to see you here. :D
 
I do agree the DMC moments like the Diggernaut are also a bit of an overcorrection of the character. They aren’t anywhere as damaging relatively though and if they had to reprove they were mostly getting back on track I don’t mind them too much (the Kraid gif is super cool in my book imo).

Very interested in what Samus will be like in Prime 4 since Retro has been away from the series for so long. Her introduction in Prime as she hops off her ship is super cool without being remotely try hard.
 
Damn, this just goes to show how different two people's view of a character can be from each other, since I actually really dislike moments like in those gifs. I'll explain.

Basically, Samus has never been a "showy" character with cinematics that make her look cool for the camera. She's always been a duty-bound professional, one that braces herself for a threat, and takes it seriously, even if it's a foe she's fought before. You can observe that both in the mainline series, and the Prime games. She's not cocky, she doesn't use one-liners, and she doesn't have very many "cool gals don't look at explosions" moments. These are a new side of the character that MercurySteam decided they wanted to explore, as this version of Samus is only really seen in Samus Returns, and Dread. I'm going to assume most who are praising the above moments also quite enjoyed this bit from SR, where she doesn't even find the Diggernaut worth looking at, as she delivers the final blow:

GrandioseDaringHorse-size_restricted.gif


It's fine to enjoy the heck out of these moments by their simple, satisfying merit of being "badass", but it can be argued that they're incongruous with prior depictions of the character, which is why I'm not super big on them. I find the Diggernaut moment to be closer to something a DMC character might do, rather than Samus Aran.

A friend of mine referred to this depiction of Samus as an "overcorrection" as a result of Other M's abysmal portrayal, and I do get that, too. At the end of the day, if I have to pick between "generic cool girl badass" Samus, and "NOTICE ME ADAM-SENPAI" Samus, I'll take the former, 100% of the time... but my favorite Samus will likely always be 1-4 and Prime 1-3 Samus.
I ... pretty much 100% agree with this? And I'm surprised that someone else feels the way I do.

Frankly, Dread solidifying how badass Samus is by showing us that she knows she's a badass is more cringey than anything. Because it misses the entire point of why she is a badass: every game she partakes in is just another day on the job for her. By posing and doing cool shots, sure, it's solidifying that she's experienced and has done all of these things before, but it also shows that she knows she's a badass and she knows how to be cool ... which is just ... so beyond the point of her character. It doesn't even make much sense for Dread, a game where Samus is consistently meeting her match. I could sort of get it in a game where Samus easily overpowers everything like in Zero Mission ... but Dread? She's constantly being given a lesson in humility gameplay wise, lol.

It's actually super funny you mentioned DMC, because it sort of reminds me of the super nuanced difference between DMC1's portrayal of Dante and the following games' portrayals. Kamiya himself has talked about this actually. He never went into a lot of specifics about it from what I remember, but a fan explained once in a video why they personally never connected to the later non-Kamiya depictions of Dante and though I was hesitant to agree because I love the newer DMC games, it kind of makes sense to me. Not going to explain it because it's way more nuanced than even this Samus discussion and I'm not sure I even agree with it, but I found it interesting at the time.

Again, I'm personally not sure I agree with the DMC argument that much, but it does remind me of how I personally feel about Samus in Dread versus the other games.
 
The Prime games always had a lot of "cool" Samus, I feel, though they were balanced out by moments of levity or pathos

Thardus's last pebble hitting Samus on the head as she walks away from the explosion remains a great moment, as does her looking on in a very complicated stew of reflection as the Chozo Sanctuary burns and collapses

Dread's balance is similar to me, only when it goes loud, it goes loud
That's fair to say. I have a serious itch to replay the Prime Trilogy again, so I'll be paying extra attention to everything, this time around. I think, if anything, Prime just balanced it out more. Samus has some cool, cinematic moments in those games, but the tone is balanced by her professionalism and sincerity, too, as well as the generally quite serious tone of the Prime games. With so many other protagonists, people refer to them as "bland" if they're too serious or by-the-numbers, but Samus has always worn that color better than anyone else, I feel. It gives her so much class and gravitas.
One could also argue they simply never had the hardware for it. How do you show a cinematic, badass looking Samus on NES to GBA hardware? I'd argue Prime also had a few of these moments even.

It's definitely new under MS and can be a bit much sometimes, but her other subtle characterization doesn't suffer under it IMO. There's also very few of those moments and, admittedly, look awesome, so I'm fine with it personally. And if it becomes / stays a focus point on Samus' character, that's also great.
That's true about them not being able to really depict a Samus like this in the 2D games, and I did anticipate someone raising that point in response (a valid one, to be sure). To counter that, I can only really say that... well, we don't know for certain whether they would've played up the action hero angle, or not, since we just have no clue. The depiction back then was the one we got, though, and it helped to form the idea of the character, in my head. I suppose that's the problem: if a character is left open to interpretation, to that extent, then different people will have different views on what traits should manifest more openly in future titles.
 
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I think it's probably worth emphasizing that this isn't actually the first (or the most extreme) version of Action Samus in a Sakamoto game; Other M is, ironically

Whether or not her being a bad-ass is a put-on thing where it feels like she knows she's bad-ass is down to taste, I think—I don't get that feeling as she
circles the dying Corpius, or as Z-57 is about to drag her off a cliff and she's shooting it while clawing at the ground with her free hand
but that's going to differ for each person—but there's very little in this game that hits the same tryhard notes as Samus going fishing in Other M
 
While I do think that the overtly showy Samus is a new side of her, I’m personally entirely okay with that. It’s very important to remember that in any modern game as visual fidelity and expressiveness of characters and the world rises, you NEED your main character to emote and show some characterization in some way or the other. Consider how much games such as DQXI, the new Pokémon games, or even BotW are criticized for not letting their protagonists really emote to any degree in order to keep them proper blank slates. It’s uncanny and immersion breaking, especially for a series like Metroid, where it’s not a brand new Pokémon trainer or Hero or Link in a new game, it’s the same exact Samus we’ve already seen go through, what, ten bounty hunts at this point?

Which means that the demands of games being made on new hardware require the character to emote, especially given said character’s long history that the player is entirely privy to. Maybe on the SNES and GBA it was possible to get away without needing constant visual reinforcement of characterization, but it’s not possible if Metroid is going to be made on modern hardware. So, the context we’re working now under is that we need Samus as a character to emote. Ultimately it comes down to there really only being two ways to characterize her, in terms of storytelling mechanics:

  1. You do it via overt and explicit character development. I.e. monologues, dialogue, interactions, stuff like that. I fucking hate this. This has never worked for Samus. It didn’t work in Other M, it didn’t work in the few odd instances in Prime 3, and no, in spite of how much it might be a fan favorite, it didn’t work in Fusion either. In fact I’ll argue that all the excesses and problematic portions of Samus’ characterization in Other M were ultimately the logical end point of character tendencies already introduced in Fusion. It’s especially notable that Fusion’s most memorable and resonant character moments for Samus aren’t where she’s monologuing about Adam or the animals she rescued, they’re entirely gameplay and mechanics driven ones, such as when she goes off script from ADAM’s orders, or her final encounter with SA-X/Omega Metroid. Perhaps under better writers who are capable of handling overt storytelling well, I could see Samus being done justice, but not only am I not sure Nintendo, for all their considerable talents as game makers, have that writing skill, I’m not sure there’s anyone in the games industry I would trust to pull something like that off to any satisfactory degree. Because the best we’ll get out of someone trying to characterize Samus by giving her proper words is something like Aloy, which, fuck no. The worst? Other M. Which, FUCK NO.
  2. You do it via body language. Which is what they’ve done in SR and Dread. And yes it’s a new side to Samus, but I also think that dismissing the hardware argument here is fallacious, when this new side of Samus emerging is specifically linked to her games finally hitting a higher level of visual fidelity - its important to note that technically they actually tried to characterize Samus before even 3DS, on the Wii, where, again, much higher visual fidelity than a GBA or SNES. It’s just that there they went with a) explicit tell, not show style storytelling and b) tried to, for whatever godforsaken reason, go with a more vulnerable and submissive read of the character. The response to both was negative and they have wisely decided to instead characterize her via body language. Which is good because as I said above, I can’t see any developer actually doing justice to the nuance and delicacy with which a character like Samus would need to be handled to begin with.
This has become a novel length post, so I’ll do a TLDR- modern graphical fidelity means the character needs to emote. Emoting via overt dialog or monologues is clearly not something that has gone down well for this character before, and in fact is linked to some of the more troubling reads of her the developers tried to push on us. Choosing to instead course correct in the opposite direction (I.e. subtextual storytelling and a more self assured character) is the way to go.

If Nintendo had still gotten the stomach for having Samus monologue and shit, she’d still be the overt badass the MS games portray her as. Because that’s the interpretation of the character they’re going with (thank fuck). Them making her a Doom Slayer/Dante equivalent is just them choosing to do it via subtextual means because, smartly, they don’t trust themselves to be able to handle it the other way.

God that was a long ass TLDR.
 
Also, the Diggernaut kill, after being terrorized by that fucker for hours over the course of the most annoying fucking chase sequence and the until then hardest boss fight in a 2D Metroid game, was a well earned bit of cathartic payoff. For Samus and the player alike. Anything short of that would have made the whole thing significantly less memorable.
 
The Cousins from Breaking Bad are a perfect example of what happens when characters are comprised of, and defined entirely by how "badass" they are. Much like Samus, they don't talk much, their characterization instead being shown through just how cool they're able to look for the camera. They even get a literal "walk away from the explosion behind you, and don't flinch" moment. The ultimate perception of these characters in the Breaking Bad fandom is that they're deadly and stylish, but ultimately caricatures, or cartoon villains. I never want Samus Aran to become a caricature. Thankfully, I don't actually believe that's in any danger of ever happening. It's just me illustrating the hypothetical endpoint. I'm mostly really optimistic about MercurySteam's future with Metroid! Dread ended up being such a fantastic game.
I do agree the DMC moments like the Diggernaut are also a bit of an overcorrection of the character. They aren’t anywhere as damaging relatively though and if they had to reprove they were mostly getting back on track I don’t mind them too much (the Kraid gif is super cool in my book imo).

Very interested in what Samus will be like in Prime 4 since Retro has been away from the series for so long. Her introduction in Prime as she hops off her ship is super cool without being remotely try hard.
I'm very optimistic about her portrayal in Prime 4. Retro understands Samus perfectly. Not just Samus, but Metroid as a whole. It's why they were able to so perfectly transition the Metroid formula to 3D. Even if it's obviously not going to be the exact same team from way back in the day (when is it ever, really?), I'll bet it's still a group of super talented, wickedly passionate developers following in those footsteps.
I ... pretty much 100% agree with this? And I'm surprised that someone else feels the way I do.

Frankly, Dread solidifying how badass Samus is by showing us that she knows she's a badass is more cringey than anything. Because it misses the entire point of why she is a badass: every game she partakes in is just another day on the job for her. By posing and doing cool shots, sure, it's solidifying that she's experienced and has done all of these things before, but it also shows that she knows she's a badass and she knows how to be cool ... which is just ... so beyond the point of her character. It doesn't even make much sense for Dread, a game where Samus is consistently meeting her match. I could sort of get it in a game where Samus easily overpowers everything like in Zero Mission ... but Dread? She's constantly being given a lesson in humility gameplay wise, lol.

It's actually super funny you mentioned DMC, because it sort of reminds me of the super nuanced difference between DMC1's portrayal of Dante and the following games' portrayals. Kamiya himself has talked about this actually. He never went into a lot of specifics about it from what I remember, but a fan explained once in a video why they personally never connected to the later non-Kamiya depictions of Dante and though I was hesitant to agree because I love the newer DMC games, it kind of makes sense to me. Not going to explain it because it's way more nuanced than even this Samus discussion and I'm not sure I even agree with it, but I found it interesting at the time.

Again, I'm personally not sure I agree with the DMC argument that much, but it does remind me of how I personally feel about Samus in Dread versus the other games.
Yeah, I really like the way you've articulated it, in this post. Samus knows how competent she is, but certain bits intended to underscore that do come across as... exaggerated, and, well, like you said, cringy. I absolutely hate having to use that word to describe it, though, being that Samus is my favorite gaming character of all time.

That's interesting about DMC, as well! Truth be told, I don't play those games, so I'm not super knowledgeable on them. I've just seen bits and pieces, so I know a little about how Dante and the others behave, and it gave me a little of that vibe.
 
The Cousins from Breaking Bad are a perfect example of what happens when characters are comprised of, and defined entirely by how "badass" they are. Much like Samus, they don't talk much, their characterization instead being shown through just how cool they're able to look for the camera. They even get a literal "walk away from the explosion, and don't flinch" moment. The ultimate perception of these characters in the Breaking Bad fandom is that they're deadly and stylish, but ultimately caricatures, or cartoon villains.
Here’s the thing - the Cousins get more screen time and characterization in their nine episodes in Breaking Bad than Samus has across every QTE and cutscene in SR and Dread put together. The density and volume of storytelling is completely different here. It’s like the difference between only trying to define a character by how badass they are (surely there’s a better word to use here than badass lol, but it’s 2am here and I can’t think of one) in a novel versus a short story, it’s far more tenable in a shorter format.

If tomorrow Metroid were to go all cRPG on us with Planescape levels of text and exposition thrown on us and they STILL stuck to the kind of “cool women don’t look at explosions” only one note track for emoting and characterizing Samus as in SR and Dread? I’d agree, that’s stupid and will probably trivialize the character. But given how minimal the storytelling is in Metroid games, and how little of that storytelling is ultimately about Samus versus the world and the history of the world you find yourself on? The few odd “I know how to wreck shit” moments they give Samus more than suffice.
 
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You've made some solid, respectable points, Phantom Thief. Alas, it's late for me too, and I wanna walk away from posting for tonight, so I'll give you a proper response tomorrow. 😅
 
Because people were talking about those GIFs wih Corpius and Kraid:
Don't forget what happened before or what IS happening in these GIFs itself.

- Samus baited Corpius into charging at her, her moving in front of the Chozo statue to shoot Corpius, so he might charge into the statue and the statue collapsing onto him. It wasn't just badass to be badass but she was deliberate about her choice and user her observation, even from the fight itself to make the correct judgement. Because Samus is smart and at this point very experienced and we have seen her in the Prime games to be cautious and deliberate when she doesn't know what lies ahead of her. And for me that is also part of this scene

- Same goes with Kraid. She knows Kraid well enough and cam into the rool pointing her gun towards him, up until the point she recognized him and that he was in shackles. And no, why should the Chozo create a room and keep him there when he could easily attack everyone entering the room? Why should he even stay there if he could wreck havok somewhere else? so Samus took a step back and shoot him when he was so stupid to scream at her.
Again she used experience and observation which ended up looking cool.

And heck in the end of the fight against Z-57, she just pointed her gun at the enemy until she was sure, that thing was dead. Only after that she used her Booster to get back up. And I would like to say, that in Prime we had a few scenes where I would say, that she also showed off. Mostly due to bringing her moves to 3D, like doing a Space Jump from her Ship in the Intro of Prime 1 but also in the ending of Prime 2, with how she waved, not looking back as in
"No need to thank me, I'll whip these many asses every day. Twice on sundays".

I don't have any problems with a Samus that knows what she can do and can show this from time to time.
 
Thoughts on characterisation:

For what it's worth, I think the badass moments in Dread generally avoid the DMC feeling as it - most of the time - doesn't feel like Samus is showing off. They're flashy, but they're nothing compared to some of the cool but ultimately redundant stuff that Dante pulls.

Her counters against Experiment No Z-57 and Raven Beak are cool as fuck, but there's a layer of efficency to what she's doing - she creates an opening and exploits it as much as possible. I feel this is the same for any counter that Samus pulls off, regardless if it's against your average mook or a boss.

It helps that these moments are balanced out with other smaller displays of her characterisation. I really liked those little flashes of Prime where we would see Samus react to things simply by showing her eyes - surprise, concern, rage - they're all there.

However, what I love about her single line of dialogue is that it displays the innate empathy that has been a key aspect of Samus since the early days of the series. She's professional and stoic, but she also assures Quiet Robe that things will be okay.

It's a small thing but it's good that Dread remembers that this is the same character that spared an infant Metroid and reacted with horror to her fellow hunters being corrupted in Prime 3.

Ultimately it's not a massive thing for a Metroid game to nail, but I really like the characterisation of Samus in this game. It feels balanced.
 
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I, for one, welcome the coming of chatty Samus. Just imagine the possibilities!

Samus gets the morph ball, turns to camera and winks: "It's morphin' time!'
Goes into lava zone: "Feelin' the heat, time to get outta the kitchen!"
Upon defeating Raven Beak: "You shoulda kept your beak outta my business!"

Seriously, tho, I was really impressed by how Samus' actions shaped her characterisation in this game. The few moments where she shows the human being underneath the armor resonated all the more because she's so stoic otherwise.
 
I, for one, welcome the coming of chatty Samus. Just imagine the possibilities!

Samus gets the morph ball, turns to camera and winks: "It's morphin' time!'
Goes into lava zone: "Feelin' the heat, time to get outta the kitchen!"
Upon defeating Raven Beak: "You shoulda kept your beak outta my business!"

Seriously, tho, I was really impressed by how Samus' actions shaped her characterisation in this game. The few moments where she shows the human being underneath the armor resonated all the more because she's so stoic otherwise.
Nah man, Mercury stream have failed twice now. Think how much better Samus returns would have been if it was full of "Hell Yeah!" and "woo genocide!" canned lines on each Metroid kill, you'd get to hear them 100 times, and it would have been awesome each time.

Lol, somewhere out there someone honestly wants that to happen.
 
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Dread Samus was perfect to me. Mostly a stoic badass focusing on the mission, and the moments where she wasn't as stoic were all the more powerful for it and felt justified. And outside of that, her gestures and stances communicated plenty.

As for the Kotaku article... well, hot takes for outrage clicks are a thing I guess.
 
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The only way I'd accept Samus being a veritable chatterbox during normal gameplay was if she was like 4Koma Samus:



But seriously...Samus proving she can talk, and only does so openly when it's warranted, is something I appreciated about Dread. I don't mind having a peek into her internal musings like in Fusion, but it was clear, between SR and Dread, they wanted to help restore some of the character's "mystery". Or at least be adequate conveyors of "show not yell".
 
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Regarding the flashy bits, I love most of them - but when they get to the 'don't look at explosions' level it takes me out if it a little. Not watching to make sure she finished off Diggernaut or Corpius bugged me because it just feels dumb from Samus's point of view (especially given she already thought Diggernaut was done before it started stirring again). Similarly, not flinching at Kraid as if she perfectly calculated how far he could move within his restraints in two seconds felt far-fetched.

But my problem with this isn't Samus specifically, I don't like these tropes in general with characters that are supposed to be smart. I understand a lot of people like it though. Again, I enjoy her being cool; I just don't like when it conflicts with her intelligence.
 
Regarding the flashy bits, I love most of them - but when they get to the 'don't look at explosions' level it takes me out if it a little. Not watching to make sure she finished off Diggernaut or Corpius bugged me because it just feels dumb from Samus's point of view (especially given she already thought Diggernaut was done before it started stirring again). Similarly, not flinching at Kraid as if she perfectly calculated how far he could move within his restraints in two seconds felt far-fetched.

But my problem with this isn't Samus specifically, I don't like these tropes in general with characters that are supposed to be smart. I understand a lot of people like it though. Again, I enjoy her being cool; I just don't like when it conflicts with her intelligence.

I think you don't really take her confidence into account. She knows what she is capable of, so she knows that she beat that enemy and don't give such a monster a second glance after the job is finished. For me it's very in-character.
 
I think you don't really take her confidence into account. She knows what she is capable of, so she knows that she beat that enemy and don't give such a monster a second glance after the job is finished. For me it's very in-character.
The confidence is part of my problem, especially in the case of the Diggernaut scene. She was already confident it was out for good before it started stirring again; why the no-look YOLO charge beam (seriously, how did she even aim that) to finish it with that context? The confidence was demonstrably misplaced.

Similarly with Corpious, she may have intentionally baited it into running into the statue, but it still wasn't her shot. I would've liked that scene more if she pivoted as she landed to see the statue fall on top of it; if they timed it right, she could've been in a similar pose as Corpious died, just facing the other way.

I dunno, I just don't think the whole "don't look" thing goes with the no-nonsense side of her we see all the time. But once again: I know it's popular, and I don't hate it. Just not quite my taste.
 
gaming discourse is deciding whether or not women protagonists should be allowed to be emotional or stoic.

meanwhile link hasnt said a word in 35 years
 
They want to keep her mostly silent as per usual? Cool. They want to make her more verbal, more expressive? Cool.

Just keep her in character. And it's possible to do that with both options.
 
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Samus has been on like 10 Galaxy saving missions by Dread

If the woman wants to do a backflip to inject some fun into it, let her! Damn
 
Because people were talking about those GIFs wih Corpius and Kraid:
Don't forget what happened before or what IS happening in these GIFs itself.

- Samus baited Corpius into charging at her, her moving in front of the Chozo statue to shoot Corpius, so he might charge into the statue and the statue collapsing onto him. It wasn't just badass to be badass but she was deliberate about her choice and user her observation, even from the fight itself to make the correct judgement. Because Samus is smart and at this point very experienced and we have seen her in the Prime games to be cautious and deliberate when she doesn't know what lies ahead of her. And for me that is also part of this scene

- Same goes with Kraid. She knows Kraid well enough and cam into the rool pointing her gun towards him, up until the point she recognized him and that he was in shackles. And no, why should the Chozo create a room and keep him there when he could easily attack everyone entering the room? Why should he even stay there if he could wreck havok somewhere else? so Samus took a step back and shoot him when he was so stupid to scream at her.
Again she used experience and observation which ended up looking cool.

And heck in the end of the fight against Z-57, she just pointed her gun at the enemy until she was sure, that thing was dead. Only after that she used her Booster to get back up. And I would like to say, that in Prime we had a few scenes where I would say, that she also showed off. Mostly due to bringing her moves to 3D, like doing a Space Jump from her Ship in the Intro of Prime 1 but also in the ending of Prime 2, with how she waved, not looking back as in
"No need to thank me, I'll whip these many asses every day. Twice on sundays".

I don't have any problems with a Samus that knows what she can do and can show this from time to time.

Yeah, there are really just a few moments like this across two games, and I think their “showiness” is being wildly overstated. Most of the flair in the Corpius finale comes from the camera placement, and in the Kraid opening, the recognition of who it is (combined with the shackles) leads to her realizing she’s at no significant risk (this may also be a deliberate response to her infamously melodramatic reaction to Ridley’s appearance in Other M). These cutscenes are fully in keeping with Samus’ quiet and confident professionalism.
 
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I'm not sure how the QR scene could have been handled any better, truly.

She starts out on guard, then relaxes when she realizes he's peaceful. She sits down in a somewhat funny pose to listen to him. She is empathetic and calmly assures him that she will succeed. She reacts with clear shock and anger when he gets shot. Then when the battle is over, she takes one more look at his body with regret before finally moving on with her mission.

It's basically a full range of emotion. What more do people want?

The "bad ass" boss kill scenes you could say are another matter, but I don't have a problem with those either. Samus has little reason to display other emotions while running around by herself fighting monsters. She would reasonably just be guarded and efficient at all times.
 
Also it's really hard to top the "relentlessly bad-ass" feel of Samus's first encounter with Ridley in Metroid Prime 3; this version of her has been around for at least 15 years, now
 
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I still really enjoy Samus's internal monologues in Fusion. Not only are they a nice peak into her view of various matters (her fondness for her old CO, appreciating that the Etecoons and Dachoras are safe, her optimism that most of the Federation will agree that blowing up the station was necessary), but they also showcase some of her flaws. There's her being headstrong and being too quick to want to sacrifice herself of course, but more interestingly is how dismissive she is of the X. She really wants to believe that they're just mindless parasites solely out to expand even as they reveal they're more than that. Could be her Metroid DNA speaking, or she just doesn't want to believe the parasites have the intelligence to bolster their already formidable threat. It's a small touch, but something I appreciate.
 
It baffles my mind that in a series that is arguably about being isolated, people apparently want her to speak a lot... To whom? She's alone in those god forsaken places. Monologues would make her feel demented.
 
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I fail to see much issue with a backflip or a flashy move in a cutscene when most of her in-game moves are just as flashy. Like, as a player you're constantly spinning, mid-air jumping, sliding, countering, using flash shifts and all of that, so seeing Samus do something flashy in a cutscene is more of the same.

This isn't a Twin Snakes scenario where cutscenes had ninja Snake which was completely different to regular gameplay.
 
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Damn, this just goes to show how different two people's view of a character can be from each other, since I actually really dislike moments like in those gifs. I'll explain.

Basically, Samus has never been a "showy" character with cinematics that make her look cool for the camera. She's always been a duty-bound professional, one that braces herself for a threat, and takes it seriously, even if it's a foe she's fought before. You can observe that both in the mainline series, and the Prime games. She's not cocky, she doesn't use one-liners, and she doesn't have very many "cool gals don't look at explosions" moments. These are a new side of the character that MercurySteam saw fit to create and explore, as this version of Samus is only really seen in their contributions to the series: Samus Returns and Dread. I'm going to assume most who are praising the above moments also quite enjoyed this bit from SR, where she doesn't even find the Diggernaut worth looking at, as she delivers the final blow:

GrandioseDaringHorse-size_restricted.gif


It's fine to enjoy the heck out of these moments by their simple, satisfying merit of being "badass", but it can be argued that they're incongruous with prior depictions of the character, which is why I'm not super big on them. Personal taste thing. I find the Diggernaut moment to be closer to something a DMC character might do, than Samus Aran.

A friend of mine referred to this depiction of Samus as an "overcorrection", in response to Other M's abysmal portrayal, and I do get that, too. At the end of the day, if I have to pick between "generic cool girl badass" Samus, and "NOTICE ME ADAM-SENPAI" Samus, I'll take the former, 100% of the time... but my favorite Samus will likely always be 1-4 and Prime 1-3 Samus. She was always awesome in those games, even before MercurySteam's "action hero" cinematics.
I fully agree. I thought it seemed pretty out of place for Samus, especially that first gif. Seemed far too much a being cool for the sake of being cool thing.
 
You do it via overt and explicit character development. I.e. monologues, dialogue, interactions, stuff like that. I fucking hate this. This has never worked for Samus. It didn’t work in Other M, it didn’t work in the few odd instances in Prime 3, and no, in spite of how much it might be a fan favorite, it didn’t work in Fusion either. In fact I’ll argue that all the excesses and problematic portions of Samus’ characterization in Other M were ultimately the logical end point of character tendencies already introduced in Fusion. It’s especially notable that Fusion’s most memorable and resonant character moments for Samus aren’t where she’s monologuing about Adam or the animals she rescued, they’re entirely gameplay and mechanics driven ones, such as when she goes off script from ADAM’s orders, or her final encounter with SA-X/Omega Metroid. Perhaps under better writers who are capable of handling overt storytelling well, I could see Samus being done justice, but not only am I not sure Nintendo, for all their considerable talents as game makers, have that writing skill, I’m not sure there’s anyone in the games industry I would trust to pull something like that off to any satisfactory degree. Because the best we’ll get out of someone trying to characterize Samus by giving her proper words is something like Aloy, which, fuck no. The worst? Other M. Which, FUCK NO.
I don't think you're giving Fusion Samus enough credit. I find that depiction of the character to be a particularly strong one, for several reasons.

This is the game where Samus is the ultimate underdog, and the weakest she's ever been. She nearly dies, right at the beginning, and almost immediately after that, she's already being sent on another mission. Despite hardly having any time to become acclimated to her new physiology, Samus steadfastly navigates the horrors of B.S.L. in the way that only she could. She ruminates on, and draws from her past experiences, clinging to her humanity, despite her only ally being a computer telling her where to go (she remarks on the coldness of the AI, even), and despite not quite feeling like herself, physically. She feels fear, yes (as anyone would, when going up against what is essentially John Carpenter's The Thing), but despite her weakened form, she's able to hold onto who she is, maintain her ideals (ultimately convincing the computerized Adam to live up to the CO she previously admired), and rebel against a bioterrorist cell of the Galactic Federation, consequences be damned... because she's one of the few (besides the Chozo) who know the true threat the Metroids and the X pose to the galaxy. She's lived that experience.

I'd like to share my favorite Samus moment from Fusion. It takes place soon after the secret Metroid lab gets jettisoned off B.S.L., and just before she sets the station on a collision course with SR388.




She's outraged, right? Outaged, as anyone in her position would be, that she's gone through hell battling the Metroids and X, and yet again, a group of evil morons want to use them as tools for galactic dominance and control. After a game of being railroaded and told exactly where to go, Samus refuses to be a pawn for the Federation any longer, and makes her own decision, for the greater good, with no regard for what will happen to her.

As soon as the Federation ships land, the X will overwhelm them and absorb the knowledge and power of their occupants. The X are just waiting for the hunt to begin, and then they'll spread across the universe. Galactic civilization will end. The X hunger for form, knowledge, and power. They mimic these perfectly. But they cannot copy the soul. They're single-minded, instinctively seeking to increase in number. They're a plague, and the Federation underestimates their threat. The X must not leave here. I must destroy them all before the Federation arrives. This station has a self-destruct mechanism. I must use it to destroy the X here and on the planet. I must send them to oblivion. Them, the station, and myself, if I have to.

Now, if that monologue isn't the perfect encapsulation of threat assessment, selfless heroism, and full-on conviction, I don't know what is. This is the Samus I'd call badass, not her doing some cool scene from an action movie. Metroid 1-3 were great at giving us a picture of Samus's competence, but Fusion is the first game where we bear witness to the fact that she's not just some space cop doing any dangerous jobs that high authority tells her to. She's battling threats around the galaxy because she wants to keep it safe, even if she has to die for it. That's just who she is, as a person.

During the ending, she knows she's done the right thing, and she's at peace with that (not to mention her downright philosophical reflections after she escapes). Samus Aran was a true maverick in this game, and I loved the hell out of it. Fusion was my first Metroid game, and I'll never forget the strength of Samus's character within it. Yeah, maybe the whole "Samus Aran is now a galactic fugitive!" implication was the result of mistranslation work on the English localization, but that still would've been a hell of a direction to take Metroid 5 in, that's for sure.

As for Other M, yes, that game's characterization of Samus is a complete and utter disaster, but I disagree with it being the logical endpoint of what Fusion started. I'd say there was no "endpoint" for what Fusion established in the Metroid canon, beyond what it already was. The game spoke for itself, stood on its own, and closed its own threads. We didn't need Other M. We didn't need to actually see Adam and Samus's relationship, and if we did, he didn't need to be portrayed as someone that Samus would seek consent for to use her own damn suit functions. Fusion's endpoint was itself. It's a shame that, at the time, Sakamoto didn't understand that, but he seems to have course corrected, and thank goodness for that.

In closing, am I agreeing, or disagreeing with you, regarding your assertion that Samus is better characterized through things like subtextual actions and body language, as opposed to narrations and internal monologues? Well, it's complicated. I absolutely see where you're coming from. If they can't write Samus well, then they'd better not do so at all, lest we get another dogshit depiction... but at the same time, I truly believe that Samus is a deeply compelling character, and that perhaps some writer in the future will be able to have that shine through again through spoken word, just like it did in Fusion, and just like it does in the games that aren't Other M.

(Sorry for the wall of text. I just love these games, and this character.)
 
I'm so sorry I missed your post @Aurc I have like six threads and notifications for each of them going, I don't mean to ignore you lol.

I'm going to bed earlier today to avoid a repeat of yesterday lol, but let me get back to you tomorrow. One thing I will say is, I think we are in agreement that Samus is a fascinating character, and that under a good writer, would be get to see handled in terms of overt and explicit storytelling; we both also seem to agree that Nintendo is probably not capable of doing something like that justice. Our primary disagreement comes on Fusion (and I do agree I can be unfair to that game lol, I'm not the biggest fan of its structure and that does color how I see everything about it), and you raised some great points there that I promise to get to tomorrow!
 
I'm so sorry I missed your post @Aurc I have like six threads and notifications for each of them going, I don't mean to ignore you lol.

I'm going to bed earlier today to avoid a repeat of yesterday lol, but let me get back to you tomorrow. One thing I will say is, I think we are in agreement that Samus is a fascinating character, and that under a good writer, would be get to see handled in terms of overt and explicit storytelling; we both also seem to agree that Nintendo is probably not capable of doing something like that justice. Our primary disagreement comes on Fusion (and I do agree I can be unfair to that game lol, I'm not the biggest fan of its structure and that does color how I see everything about it), and you raised some great points there that I promise to get to tomorrow!
Oh buddy, don't you worry about it, lol. This ain't my first rodeo. I know who you are, and how much you loved making threads, back on Era. You're the last person I'd get offended by, missing a post or two. I'm just happy for your time, and the discussion we're having, regardless. Bigger forums move way too fast. I'm happy we have time on Fami to just pace ourselves, and have a conversation across a couple days, not two minutes before the next thing takes over the board's attention.
 
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