RTTP RTTPaper Mario The Thousand-Year Door (open spoilers)

[Dardan Sandiego]

The birthday of everyone's favourite cube-shaped console inspired me to revisit one of its most well-liked games: Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. It's been over a decade since I last played this and now that I hit the halfway point, I thought I'd make a thread.

Overall, it's still a very enjoyable entry. The unique scenarios with their quirky characters are a series highlight and feel as fresh today as they did back then. Especially the writing has lost none of its charm and humour, all of its idiosyncrasies coming together beautifully to weave this high-stakes but nonetheless lighthearted adventure. As with most of its elements, it's the most faithful sequel to the original but does enough to set itself apart. While Chapter 1 is quite similar to the original, Rogueport, the X-Nauts, the other more eclectic scenarios as well as the overarching narrative of the eponymous Thousand-Year Door make it feel like more than a simple retread.

The combat system is as sharp as ever, all the partners have their own uses and the level of customization granted by the badge system is still unmatched. The partners in general are a delight (with one obvious exception) and deliver on the most criminal omission from the original (Yoshi!). The game has received much praise for its character designs and I think all of it (with. one. obvious. exception.) is justified. On top of the many unique characters you also have tons of surprising takes on legacy species.

With that out of the way, I just got Bobbery (also a great design) and there's several things about the game that have started to bug me. Full disclosure: Back when I played this for the first time I already knew that I preferred the original in certain respects. Some of the stuff I will criticize TTYD about also partially apply to the first Paper Mario so it's very much meant to point out that it sadly doesn't meaningfully improve said elements.

1. The game has an egregious amount of backtracking due to its simplistic level layouts. It's honestly quite brutal in some parts. I'm not fundamentally opposed to it but it's not really justified nor mechanically interesting in TTYD. The level design does not support this kind of progression. If you've played it, you probably know that Chapter 4 is especially bad with this. You're basically following a linear path from Twilight Town to the Creepy Steeple and have to go back and forth a total of 5 times until you can finally beat Doopliss for good. It makes the game feel padded and going after the troubles is an absolute chore. Riding Yoshi and the fast-warp pipes are only mildly useful and come quite late.
2. Most of the game is extremely easy. I was told that putting your upgrades into FP and BP remedies this somewhat but from my experience you have to basically play as ineptly as possible and not make use of the badges at all for this to matter. I'm not good at super guarding and still manage easily. Luckily the bosses in the latter half are better but the first batch has been a lineup of pushovers. Another user on here pointed out to me that this is due most of the combat improvements benefitting the player like for example the split HP for Mario and his partners and I'm inclined to agree.
3. The music is honestly speaking a bit dull. I think most of it stems from the fact that you're spending a lot of time in combat so it's basically the battle theme (which is a step back from the original) over and over again but aside from the Rogueport theme the rest of the soundtrack isn't really up to snuff compared to other Mario RPGs. For how unique the visuals and the scenarios are, the music is quite underused.

I have some more minor things like the randomness of the rules in the Glitz Pit and much of a pain in the ass it is to find star pieces but these three major issues cover it mostly. As I said, overall still a very enjoyable entry. I don't really "score" games but if I had to this would probably be a high 7 to low 8 so far.

 

[WestEgg]

TTYD was probably a formative game for me and I’ll still give it a nod as my overall favorite in the series. Though as time goes on, I have become more aware of its flaws, and have a lot of appreciation for some of the things the newer games, namely Origami King, improved upon.

I think I’m an anomaly in that I actually really like the Twilight Town chapter. Yes, it’s full of backtracking between the town and the steeple, but I think the tone, scenario, and characters make up for it. Boggly Woods is my least favorite area, it’s less egregious that Twilight Town in terms of backtracking, but everything else is very dull.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

TTYD was probably a formative game for me and I’ll still give it a nod as my overall favorite in the series. Though as time goes on, I have become more aware of its flaws, and have a lot of appreciation for some of the things the newer games, namely Origami King, improved upon.

I think I’m an anomaly in that I actually really like the Twilight Town chapter. Yes, it’s full of backtracking between the town and the steeple, but I think the tone, scenario, and characters make up for it. Boggly Woods is my least favorite area, it’s less egregious that Twilight Town in terms of backtracking, but everything else is very dull.

Oh yeah, I played large parts of the game with my girlfriend watching me and we had some good laughs at everything (like the crows in Twilight Town talking about climate change and how we have to invest in renewable energies). As I said, the scenarios and the writing are all top notch. It's the other elements that drag it down a bit for me.

 

[Yavga]

Paper Mario and the Thousand Year door was one of those games that I have A LOT of nostalgia for, it is a great game that followed up after Paper Mario for the N64 (which also holds a very special place in my heart)

Both games manage to set up a delightfully lighthearted and compelling adventure which never felt dull for a moment because in both games there was always a reason to check every nook and cranny for either a badge or some other hidden collectable. The combat in both games was very uplifting and epic because every battle felt like a performance (with actual audience!) And the audience could actually cheer you on and support you with items at times. What made the combat the most enjoyable for me however was the timing mechanic that both games utilised; while attacking your enemies in a turn based battle if you pressed at the right time you could deal more damage or appeal to the crowd!

The games were like a book with chapters that held their own little worlds in each chapter, with either big mysteries to solve or bad bosses to beat. The games' story was always engaging because the story kept taking new turns without stop, stories that felt fresh and new.

While Origami King came a step closer towards the Mario RPG's of that day it still fell short in its combat and character building which was kinda dissapointing to me. I'm STILL waiting for the series to grab my attention back especially now that the Mario & Luigi series is dead :/

Oh well, all things are finite

 

[Jersh]

The game has an egregious amount of backtracking due to its simplistic level layouts.

It's really absurd how there's practically no branching paths in the game outside of the end of chapter areas (dungeons?)/their respective entrances and Rougeport itself. Petal Meadows is a straight line to Shhwonk Fortress. Boggly Woods to Flurry's house is a straight shot. Chapters 4 and 5 cut out the 'end area in the background of an earlier screen' and just slapped it at the literal end of the area (which are now winding lines with no branches instead of straight lines with no branches, woo!). Chapter 7 is smaller but returns to the straight line.

The only areas that don't really work like this are chapters 3 and 6, which aren't at all structured like traditional Paper Mario chapters (and in the context of TTYD's level design are better off for it imo). Coming off the myriad of ways they found to make the original's level design at least somewhat interesting and quick to navigate, it's a particularly strange regression that feels even more egregious to me on every replay.

 

[Brock Reiher]

The game has definitely become extremely overrated over time. I think it's probably because it's the last time we got a traditional RPG for the series. It's still solid but I've always called it "The Beginning of the End".

Hopefully the original being on NSO will help set the record straight.

 

[Zeal543]

I love and hate TTYD, I always enjoy playing it overall but my god replaying the stretch of chapter 2-4 is downright painful

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

TTYD is absolutely a game that rides very hard on its writing and its charm. Compared to other Mario games, the scenarios it throws you into are so different, from the grimy streets of Rogueport to a fighting tournament and a mystery on a fancy train. Even its more traditional areas have twists, like the surreal look of the Boggly Woods and the pirate theme to the tropical island. The partners also have more character to them than the PM64 squad, and a few of them (namely Goombella, Vivian and Bobbery) are some of my favorite Mario characters across the entire franchise. I wouldn't say it executes on these perfectly - realizing the female party members are Mario's harem anime love interests dropped my opinion of the writing pretty significantly - but it's hard to disagree with the reasons why it's beloved. Super Paper Mario is the same way, just pushed to a greater extreme.

As a follow up to PM64, it actually reminds me of another pair of JRPGs that released at around the same time: Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. KH2 is the fan favorite, a follow up to a great if a little unrefined original that focuses on improving the battle system but with a noticeable decline in level design and pacing. I feel pretty similarly about PM64 vs TTYD, though the gulf in specific areas isn't as deep. For example, TTYD's battles are still pretty close to the originals, just more engaging with the Stylish commands and arguably easier with more options (though PM64 is also not hard, both are beginner's JRPGs). I still love both games, they're both foundational game experiences for me in different ways, but while as a kid I vastly preferred TTYD, I tend to enjoy PM64 more, even if it's a "safer" game story and world wise.

 

[Phendrift]

TTYD is probably one of those games that vastly benefited from being a huge part of my childhood.

I consider it one of my favorite games of all time, but if I played it for the first time today, I’d probably not think as highly of it.

Not only because of nostalgia, but back then I’d 100% games and not think a think of it. These days I don’t have the patience, so I wouldn’t have done things I still think of as super cool like the Pit of 100 Trials or Trouble board.

It’s also because I didn’t really think too deep of “flaws” games had as a kid. Like backtracking simply wasn’t a flaw it was “oh that’s what the game wants me to do, cool I get to go back to all these areas in chapter 7!” Instead of “oh they’re rehashing content”.

Sometimes I still wish I had that mindset lol

Game is still amazing though even considering all of that, I love the story and characters, the battle system is super fun as well. In fact I even get more sad when I realize it’s flaws because it shows there WAS room to improve on this style of Paper Mario :/

 

[Deleted member 1613]

Still my favorite JRPG of all time. What I would give for a remastered version (especially one that doesn't censor Vivian's gender identity, and also updates the localization to fix the issues with her portrayal in the original Japanese script).

 

[YoboD]

TTYD was probably a formative game for me and I’ll still give it a nod as my overall favorite in the series. Though as time goes on, I have become more aware of its flaws, and have a lot of appreciation for some of the things the newer games, namely Origami King, improved upon.

I think I’m an anomaly in that I actually really like the Twilight Town chapter. Yes, it’s full of backtracking between the town and the steeple, but I think the tone, scenario, and characters make up for it. Boggly Woods is my least favorite area, it’s less egregious that Twilight Town in terms of backtracking, but everything else is very dull.

Yeah I agree with all of this. Even at the time the backtracking felt ridiculous, but the strengths of the game were good enough for me to overlook it. This game and the first Mario and Luigi were the first two Mario RPG’s I had ever beaten, so it’s probably no coincidence that these are the two I have the fondest memories of.

Boggly Woods is always such a drag on a replay. The characters and setting are just so drab, even the humour there felt like it didn’t land as well. Twilight Town is probably an objectively worse chapter, but the spooky vibe, story, and the novelty of losing your partners and having to team up with a former enemy was enough for me to overlook the flaws of it.

 

[Mekanos]

TTYD was probably the last game I played that I associate with my "childhood," as in, a game where I would flip through magazines hungrily wanting more news, eagerly anticipating and fantasizing about it, and obsessing over it upon release. Afterwards video game coverage became more and more tied to internet promotion and I started to grow into my young adulthood, so I feel like it was the last time I really had that specific experience. Both the way games were promoted and covered, and how I consumed games, began to change a lot in the next couple of years after.

I still love the game all in all, a lot to love about it, but when I replayed it back to back with the original many moons ago, I definitely came out preferring 64 for its level design, soundtrack, and overall atmosphere, whereas TTYD's strengths are the story/writing and the battle system. It's overall a fairly nitpicky differentiation though as I love both games dearly and would put both in my top 20.

I also think it hit just the right balance of still being recognizably "Mario" while pushing the brand and setting into weird and experimental territory - as much as I don't like what happened to the RPG series down the road, it's hard to not agree with Nintendo that perhaps SPM was pushing things a little too far.

 

[xghost777]

I love The Thousand Year Door. I’m forever bummed it’s been locked to the Gamecube since all my Gamecube memory cards are dead. It’s a really awesome adventure with cool, unique scenarios. It is easy, but I do like being as stylish as possible with doing backflips and what not. Vivian is my favorite partner character in the series I hope one day we’ll all be able to play it again easily.

 

[Rhisiart]

I have a LOT of nostalgia for this game, I haven't played in such a long time. I do wonder how it would be to revisit it, but boy does the game overflow with charm. Some moments that stick out to me: the fighting tournament chapter with your baby Yoshi, the following chapter with Vivian (it's such an interesting fact that Mario has two canon trans characters with her and Birdo), and the Peach and TEC chapters, their goodbye still makes me teary. Also the way Peach sort of becomes the final boss and the audience mechanic that's been built into the gameplay and story finally getting a huge payoff in that battle, it's just so cool.

 

[Lozjam]

This is a game that every time you go back to it, it bugs you a little more. It's kind of like the Wii version of Skyward Sword honestly, but at a much lesser extent.

It's certainly funny, charming, and it has a great battle system. But yeesh the pacing can grind the game to a complete halt and the backtracking gets to be way too much.

It's one of those games, kind of like Metroid Prime, that people absolutely adore because it just has such a great foundation, and beginning. But I really believe that most people don't stick with it to the complete end. It has such an amazing first impression that it lasts with you, but both games have some real painful spots. In Metroid Prime, it's definitely the last fetch quest with the chozo runes, in Paper Mario, I really think people start to peel off around chapter 4.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Finished Chapter 5 yesterday evening and then got the Up arrow so I could upgrade my partners and tackle the first 50 floors of the Pit of Trials (for the bag upgrade) before I continue. The final dungeon leading up to Cortez is actually the first instance of what I'd call good level design because the game makes you use several of your environmental skills to advance. The dialogue with the black chest demon made me chuckle.

However, it's also the first time the rather simplistic look of the game is detrimental to its atmosphere. It worked excellently in Twilight Town and Creepy Steeple but Chapter 5 is very far from the "lush jungle leading into creepy pirate grove" look I would have wanted for this. I know, it's a Game Cube game but this is really something I appreciated in Origami King. Cortez is still a damn cool boss fight (and the first one to actually make me strategize somewhat) so this had a nice conclusion. Now onto the Excess Express...

edit: Wrapped up Chapter 6. Always liked the mystery train concept of this chapter even though it's a little bit shallow. Would have been fun to have something a little bit more involved but alas. Pennington is a cool design, the gimmick is a bit overdone. The entire chapter feels a little bit disjointed and rushed compared to the others. Smorg is a cool boss mechanically but isn't incorporated narratively as nicely as the others. Overall, I came out liking this less than the first time around. It's probably my least favourite chapter so far.