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RTTP RTTP: LTTP: ALBW

(Returned to the party)
Hero of Hyrule

Hero of Hyrule

Frieren the Slayer
Pronouns
He/Him
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In advance of Tears of the Kingdom coming this year, I decided I would replay A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds this year. There were many reasons: I love both games a lot (A Link to the Past was literally my favorite game of all time until Breath of the Wild finally took the spot from it, while A Link Between Worlds comes far closer to matching and exceeding A Link to the Past than any game should be able to); it had been a very long time since I had played either game (20 years for LttP, 10 years for ALBW); and given that both games shared a map, with ALBW remixing it to keep things fresh, I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to see how the Zelda Team had negotiated having to reuse a map in a sequel game before and what ideas that might give me about what awaits in Tears of the Kingdom.

So I played LttP as my first game this year, and it was every bit as perfect and as much of a masterpiece as I had remembered it. It holds up incredibly well, and if I played it for the first time today, I would still give it a 10/10. Its incredible design, lean pacing, and the fact that almost literally most if not all modern action adventure games can trace themselves back to it give me an immense amount of respect for it.

I was more curious about how A Link Between Worlds would hold up on a replay this far off from its original release though - was it as much of a triumph of game design as A Link to the Past had been, would it hold up to scrutiny a decade after its release? Without the various novelties it then had (sequel to A Link to the Past, first original Zelda game for 3DS, first traditional 2D Zelda game in almost a decade, the various new things it brought to the table like the non linear progression, the 3D effect, the Wall Link mechanic) - is it still as great as it was considered in 2013, when this unassuming 3DS game went toe to toe with The Last of Us and Grand Theft Auto V in GOTY deliberations?

The answer is yes. Yes it is. A Link Between Worlds is a masterpiece. I just completed it, and I love this game so much:

  • The non linear progression in this game is absolutely inspired (one could argue that it actually does it better than Breath of the Wild, because it doesn't flatten its challenge curve and its dungeon design to achieve it);
  • The design of the dungeons and the overworlds is absolutely incredible. This is some of the best design we have seen in the series, not just because it represents a peak, full perfection of what 2D Zelda design can be, but because it then goes above and beyond to supplement it in ways with modern tech that pure 2D wouldn't be able to achieve - whether its using the polygonal 3D it uses to construct its graphics to allow cinematic camera angles or gameplay applications that wouldn't be possible otherwise (we'll get to that latter one in a second), or to use the stereoscopic 3D effect alarmingly well, far better than any other 3DS game ever did, or to just create arguably the best controlling and playing Zelda game ever thanks to its embrace of 60fps (in 2D and 3D modes!), ALBW feels like 2D game design perfected, and then supplemented even further.
  • The music! Holy crap the music is incredible. You know how much I love to highlight music in my threads, and ALBW really does not disappoint in this regardL













    It's just... so good. It's non stop bangers. While some of the remixes from A Link to the Past I think are worse in ALBW than in that game (notably, the Dark World and Death Mountain themes in LttP are significantly better than their ALBW counterparts), the ALBW versions are still excellent and really help tell a story and strike the perfect atmosphere as you set about on your quest to save not one but two worlds.
  • I fucking love the Wall Link mechanic. It's basically the equivalent of BOTW's climbing mechanic, but in 2D. The way it breaks the traditional bounds of what you would assume are this game's design, and allows for extremely clever and mind bending gameplay possibilities, is incredible. From boss fights to traversal to puzzle solving, every single aspect of the game gets infused and reenergized by the addition of this one mechanic - and this is one of those things that simply would not have been possible if the game used traditional 2D graphics. It's only the use of polygonal 3D to portray a 2D world that allows this game to achieve this mechanic at all, and it is arguably the best mechanic of this nature in any 2D Zelda game.
  • ALBW feels like a true evolution of 2D Zelda. It not only is basically a BOTW for 2D Zelda, in a lot of ways you can even argue it achieved this better than BOTW. BOTW was far more ambitious with what it tries, and a lot of its new attempts either compromise a lot of the series' traditional strengths too much for some people's liking, or they are not executed quite as well; ALBW is a safer and more conservative game, but it does also achieve everything it sets out to do without stumble. It reintroduces non linearity to the series without compromising on the progression curve, it reemphasizes exploration without compromising dungeon design, and it was the perfect indication I needed after the back to back disappointments Zelda games had provided me over the last few years (particularly Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword) that there was still something in the series I loved, that all it needed was a game that remembered why this franchise had become so legendary, and go back to it and execute on that same premise again. A Link Between Worlds did that - and we ended up with one of the best games in the series in the process.

All in all, it was an incredible experience and exercise to go back to ALBW. I don't think it is better than either LttP or BOTW overall, though it either matches or exceeds one or both in several areas, but it's an incredibly high caliber and tier of game, and playing it only makes me sad that Nintendo dropped 2D Zelda games after this one. I don't know if or when they will go back to doing new ones - I can only hope they do - but even if they don't, I really, really hope they bring A Link Between Worlds to the Switch (or Switch 2) some time soon. This game is a masterpiece, and it deserves to be exposed to a far wider audience than it was allowed to be with the 3DS back in the day.
 
It's really really really good. I just played it for the first time about a month or so ago. Some of the best 2D dungeons in the series and it might actually be my favorite top-down Zelda after Link's Awakening.
 
Paper Wario said:
It's really really really good. I just played it for the first time about a month or so ago. Some of the best 2D dungeons in the series and it might actually be my favorite top-down Zelda after Link's Awakening.
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Dark Palace and Ice Ruins ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
 
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I too think it is amazing and would rate it over most of the 3D games (not LTTP though). My only issue is the dungeons sort of lose that specific item puzzle hook that the older games get since you are buying the items. Haven’t played since launch but there are probably a lot of word puzzles that make up for this. The non-linearity though was amazing for a 2D game and the wall mechanic needs to come back. Such inspired game design.

Now give me a proper 2D switch entry, Nintendo.
 
Ooh boy, it's time for the rare WestEgg contrarian negative take on a fairly beloved game!

So let me preface this by saying I really enjoyed my time with A Link Between Worlds and find it to be a great game. On the grand scale of video games, it is in the upper 10 percent, like basically the whole series is. The non-linearity is impressive, the wall merge mechanic is unique, and Ravio and Hilda are great new characters. Also, all of the music is wonderful, and the Lorule castle theme is one of the best pieces of music in the series overall.

Having said that...

I think A Link Between Worlds is fairly middle of the road as far as Zelda goes. A lot of it (most of it even?) probably comes down to the execution of the story, and just this general feeling I have of the game kind of going through the motions of the world building and tropes of the Zelda series. A lot of this can be excused by it literally being a direct follow up to a Link to the Past and using largely the same map. But even then...

Allow me to organize my thoughts.
  • The Link in this story is extremely generic. He's clearly meant to be based on the LttP iteration, but whereas that Link has some early intrigue to him (telepathic outreach from Zelda, witnessing the death of his uncle, a daring raid into Hyrule Castle in the night to bring Zelda to safety, all basically of his own choosing up until he starts getting more direct instruction from Sahasrhala), this Link feels more reactionary and doesn't seem to have as much of a connection to the world. He just kind of has his own house as a kid, a blacksmithing job, and is looked up to by Gulley. The fact that this link is apparently the same one that appears in Tri-Force Heroes, with a completely changed design to the point we have to be told it is him, just kind of cements that this Link does not stand out amongst his peers in the series. He's even greatly overshadowed by his own counterpart within the game itself, and it's in this way we get the most characterization for him, even if indirectly by contrast.
  • The game has seven sages in reference to the seven maidens of LttP and is executed by way of Ocarina of Time in that they happen to be the most prominent NPCs you encounter along the way, and they serve a function similar to Wind Waker's sages except they are needed to grant Link the Triforce of Courage rather than power up the Master Sword. Let's set aside that the Triforce has never worked like that (In fact, I'm going to have a bullet point dedicated to that whole idea). The Sages in this game just feel obligatory, and there because they are expected to be there. They are more just incidental people Link encounters in the game rather than people he has formed some sort of personal connection to as in Ocarina and Wind Waker (even the ones Link does have a connection with is more informed than really shown). On top of all that, it's all kind of toothless compared to Ocarina which it is trying most closely to emulate (It literally lifts the temple of light aesthetic and music), as in that game we at least have the implication that the Sages have either died in the process of becoming Sages or have otherwise ascended the mortal realm. All in all, they are just kind of a forgettable aspect of the game.
  • Ganon gets done dirty. Like, Yuga just straight up merges and mindjacks him (because he apparently can just do that) and that's the end of that. Like, you can probably justify this by saying this is the mindless form of Ganon from the linked Oracle games, and so Ganon wasn't his normal conniving self, and therefor susceptible to Yuga's takeover, but that requires jumping through some hoops and bringing in outside knowledge to conclude, and the game itself makes no indication this is the case. Instead of making Yuga seem more like a threat, it just makes Ganon feel cheap, and he would have been better off just not being in this game. Yuga did not need to become Ganon to be the final boss. Heck, HILDA should have been the final boss, that would have been way cooler and more memorable. Instead, we get the series main villain getting puppeted by a villain no one will care about past this story, just to make obligatory references to a Link to the Past.
  • The story set up just feels very underwhelming. The Triforce has been split up into three parts and sent to "the chosen ones" or whatever, Ganon just has his, Zelda just has hers, and Link needs to earn his. Why is the Triforce pre-split and already within its chosen ones? I mean, to get it into the hands of the main trio of course so the game can start, but it just feels really arbitrary here. We know why it happens in Ocarina of Time, and we know Ocarina of Time is why its split in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Heck, even the NES Zelda games justify this with the backstory regarding Zelda's brother. Here, it's just like "Yeah, you know the drill, let's get started". We know the Triforce was completed at the end of a Link to the Past, and is present in the Oracle games, so like, what happened between then and now? Because in every game before hand, the Triforce being divided was a pretty big deal and caused by a catastrophic event.
I think my biggest complaint is just that this game could have had a much more interesting narrative than it ended up having. Lorule is so functionally similar to the Dark World, down to the music, that it may as well have either just been the Dark World instead, or they could have gone a different direction with it. Yuga sucks as a villain, and he really achieves is making Ganon seem worse, Hilda was the far more interesting character, and nothing is done with her. Link and Zelda just don't stand out as unique characters the way other iterations of them have and are massively overshadowed by their counterparts. I get that the game is meant to be a nostalgia rethread of the world of a Link to the Past, but in the end, it still just feels too safe, and the game is largely saved by its gameplay gimmicks rather than anything to do with the story.

Edit: Went back and covered the more spoilery parts.
 
They need to put ALBW on Switch so I can finally play it. But, like, next year. Not this year. Have mercy on my backlog.
 
Barely Able said:
I too think it is amazing and would rate it over most of the 3D games (not LTTP though). My only issue is the dungeons sort of lose that specific item puzzle hook that the older games get since you are buying the items. Haven’t played since launch but there are probably a lot of word puzzles that make up for this. The non-linearity though was amazing for a 2D game and the wall mechanic needs to come back. Such inspired game design.

Now give me a proper 2D switch entry, Nintendo.
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I feel similarly, the item rental system was an interesting idea but it kind of hurts the feeling of progression and forward momentum that the game somewhat lacks as a result. Dungeons also feel kind of same-y in terms of difficulty in a weird way, despite being really well done and unique theming-wise. I also think that as someone who played the death out of LTTP it being on almost the same map kind of hurt it, too.

Overall I like the game a lot, it has great looks and music and the wall merge mechanic is really good! But to me it's a very mid-tier 2D Zelda, probably below LTTP, Minish Cap, and the Oracles IMO.
 
A Link Between Worlds was the only new Zelda game I really liked post-Wind Waker until Breath of the Wild. Twilight Princess was okay and the rest were… not great.

I only have two main criticisms of A Link Between Worlds. First, the character designs are very generic and don’t even look reminiscent or inspired by A Link to the Past. Second, the final boss should have been Hilda. The plot builds up to it then Nintendo kind of chickens out at the end.
 
As someone who replays A Link to the Past at least once a year (sometimes more, sometimes via the Super Metroid + LttP randomizer), I adore ALBW. It was basically everything I wanted from a LttP sequel.
 
Barely Able said:
I too think it is amazing and would rate it over most of the 3D games (not LTTP though). My only issue is the dungeons sort of lose that specific item puzzle hook that the older games get since you are buying the items. Haven’t played since launch but there are probably a lot of word puzzles that make up for this. The non-linearity though was amazing for a 2D game and the wall mechanic needs to come back. Such inspired game design.

Now give me a proper 2D switch entry, Nintendo.
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SammyJ9 said:
I feel similarly, the item rental system was an interesting idea but it kind of hurts the feeling of progression and forward momentum that the game somewhat lacks as a result. Dungeons also feel kind of same-y in terms of difficulty in a weird way, despite being really well done and unique theming-wise. I also think that as someone who played the death out of LTTP it being on almost the same map kind of hurt it, too.
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I do need to point out that every dungeon is still designed around one central item (and that central item is even telegraphed to you before you even enter that dungeon).

I agree that given that there is no strict sequential design, it doesn't have a smooth progression curve, but even with that there is a very clear sequence of difficulty (East Palace->Lake Palace->Death Mountain/Hera's Tower for Hyrule, Turtle Rock/Swamp Palace/Skull Woods->Dark Palace/Thieves Den/Sand Palace->Ice Ruins/Lorule Castle).

This is why I feel ALBW's answer to the problems was better than BOTW's. You still get a great sense of progression, and you still get great dungeons designed around single item hooks, without sacrificing on all the other cool shit it brings to the table.
 
Phantom Thief said:
I do need to point out that every dungeon is still designed around one central item (and that central item is even telegraphed to you before you even enter that dungeon).

I agree that given that there is no strict sequential design, it doesn't have a smooth progression curve, but even with that there is a very clear sequence of difficulty (East Palace->Lake Palace->Death Mountain/Hera's Tower for Hyrule, Turtle Rock/Swamp Palace/Skull Woods->Dark Palace/Thieves Den/Sand Palace->Ice Ruins/Lorule Castle).

This is why I feel ALBW's answer to the problems was better than BOTW's. You still get a great sense of progression, and you still get great dungeons designed around single item hooks, without sacrificing on all the other cool shit it brings to the table.
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I didn't really feel like the difficulty curve was strong enough, honestly. Most dungeons felt about as difficult as every other one to me (but granted it's been years since I played it so i could be misremembering). And I don't know, something about the lack of a dungeon item in the dungeon itself wasn't as satisfying to me, I think it's missing that feeling of 'oh I need X thing to do all this' and working out how to get it BEFORE you can then use it in the dungeon that I missed. Sort of that "I'm lacking a powerful item, so everything is harder and harder to navigate" and then you GET that item and that feeling of gaining power, etc.

But I won't complain too much, it really is a great game that did a lot of cool things! I'd love to see another 2D Zelda that builds on its ideas and potential.
 
PandaAndino said:
thnx!

Ok now I have to decide, 3d on my n3dsxl or 2d on my oled switch. for example M&L games look very good in oled screen but those games doesnt have 3D on 3ds.
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I would say this game has some amazing use of verticality where the 3D effect actively enhances it and even helps the gameplay by making it easier for you to judge heights and depths. The game can be played without it (after all, it is totally playable on a 2DS), so it's not mandatory, but I would definitely say this is one of the cases where it actively improves and enhances the experience across the board (even if you keep the slider to the lowest level).
 
GOAT 2D Zelda. Immaculate gamefeel, lovely distinct dungeons and elegant narrative. Amazing soundtrack by Ryu Nagamatsu. Going back to LA on Switch, despite the fantastic visual overhaul, felt like a big step backwards.

LTTP never clicked for me BTW...
 
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ALttP made me fall in love with the Zelda series. I’d played the original two at my friends house but this was the first entry I’d owned myself. To this day it sits within my top 10 games of all time and the Dark World theme lives in my head rent free.

I thought ALBW was brilliant as well and the best Zelda game since the Nintendo 64 games. Comfortably better than WW, TP, SS and the DS games. I’d love to play a remaster on Switch and think it would do really well.
 
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I got this game literally for 2 dollars years ago and now having finally completed LTTP for myself recently, this will be my next Zelda game...

...after TOTK. Very curious how it will compare.
 
SammyJ9 said:
I didn't really feel like the difficulty curve was strong enough, honestly. Most dungeons felt about as difficult as every other one to me (but granted it's been years since I played it so i could be misremembering). And I don't know, something about the lack of a dungeon item in the dungeon itself wasn't as satisfying to me, I think it's missing that feeling of 'oh I need X thing to do all this' and working out how to get it BEFORE you can then use it in the dungeon that I missed. Sort of that "I'm lacking a powerful item, so everything is harder and harder to navigate" and then you GET that item and that feeling of gaining power, etc.
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Having just replayed A Link to the Past, it's not really different from how that game worked in those respects. ALttP has a difficulty curve that shoots way up when you reach Palace of Darkness, then goes back down a bit for the Thieves Town/Skull Woods/Swamp Palace phase of the game (I'd say Skull Woods is an easier dungeon than Swamp due to the enemies being more aggravating than dangerous, but Mothula is a much harder boss than Arrghus), then you have Ice Palace and Misery Mire which are notably harder, a bit of a breather level comparatively with Turtle Rock, and then another huge difficulty spike at Ganon's Tower. ALBW has a much harder Light World but a much easier Dark World, so it's not gonna punish you as hard for not getting certain upgrades before tackling dungeons, but there is enough variation to give yourself a similar up and down. The relative difficulty of the dungeons in one game mostly corresponds pretty well to the difficulty of them in the other.

It was actually very smart of them to pick A Link to the Past for this experiment though, specifically because A Link to the Past didn't have proper dungeon items yet. So in the comparison between the ALttP/ALBW versions of each dungeon, ALBW isn't at any kind of disadvantage just because it can't pull the trick of adding a new dimension to the dungeon midway through by introducing the item. There are some compromises it has to make, it isn't able to do things even ALttP could with its dungeons like count on you having access to bombs at all times. Ironically, making that a rental "dungeon item" restricts it more than it was back then. I think it's surprising how far it gets on just good level design alone though, it's proof that you don't need the Zelda formula to do traditional Zelda dungeons, and that there's a lot more to it than just that big moment where the item changes everything.

It's possibly my favorite game in the series, and I definitely agree with the notion of it being a better solution to Zelda's problems than Breath of the Wild, or at least pointing towards one. Though given the direction that one went in, it might be that from the perspective of the developers the things that were imperfections were the hold-overs from imitating ALttP's format, instead of the more common take that the item rental system feels like an inelegant band-aid.

...You know, it's only just occurred to me that they could have had you find each item in its dungeon like normal. Nothing about the game's progression would really change. I wonder why they felt the need to add Ravio as the middleman in the first place?
 
Stilt Village said:
...You know, it's only just occurred to me that they could have had you find each item in its dungeon like normal. Nothing about the game's progression would really change. I wonder why they felt the need to add Ravio as the middleman in the first place?
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I think it may have legit been an experiment. If you're making it so you don't need one dungeon's items in another, why not centralize the items and give the player complete freedom over which they want first?

Ultimately, I get why it wasn't well received, but I did enjoy it as a one-off thing.
Stilt Village said:
and that there's a lot more to it than just that big moment where the item changes everything.
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I'd love to see a Zelda game that takes the ALBW way of doing items and merges it with dungeon-specific mechanics, like the BotW divine beast controls. Still gives you everything you want (or your choice of what you want) at the start, and still leaves room for that recontextualization moment inside of the dungeon itself. But preferably in a way a little more... involved than the divine beasts ended up being.
 
Fantastic writeup, PT! A Link Between World being described as a "masterpiece" is very close to what I feel as well. I think that a lot of my excitement for TotK is actually rooted in what I originally felt for ALBW - That I get really, really tickled by the idea of a reused overworld in Zelda. It's far from dull, uninspired recycling in my opinion. When done well, when properly recontextualized - As ALBW does and as I'm CERTAIN TotK will do - it gives this extremely cool feeling of "old but new" where what works before is what works now, and yet, there's something inherently exciting about revisiting old, favourite spots and see what has changed. Is the man under the bridge still there? What is this bottle - it wasn't there before. What have they done with the path to the Dark Palace? (Sneaking mission!)

The dungeons in ALBW are just second to none. They incorporate everything I love about Zelda dungeons and the concept that they're built around, and the wall merging mechanic is all the icing on all the cakes. More or less every single puzzle is a delight to solve. Tackling them in any order, which was fresh for its time as a Zelda game, is a brilliant decision that allows for freedom and pacing dictation while not feeling overwhelming, and I love how they all still circled around a specific item, even though you could get all items from the start and other items were still useful in other dungeons. Also greatly appreciated the placement switcharoo between Turtle Rock and the Ice Palace.

And last but not least, I really love the item renting system. It makes the game even more opened up, and I love just going around in the world, seeing ad dotting down all these points of interest, and then returning to them with the required item. On top of that, makes both game overs and rupees feel more significant than they have previously been.

All in all, an incredible game, and not only peak 2D Zelda, but peak Zelda in general.
 
I love A Link Between Worlds so much. The dungeons were great and the wall mechanic was so clever and naturally integrated
 
A Link Between Worlds is easily one of my favorite Zelda games. I really enjoyed how it remixed and reimagined the Hyrule from ALLTP. I also appreciate the item rental/purchase system allowing for a more non-linear dungeon experience.

My only disappointment is that:

Hilda had an amazing villain turn completely undercut by Yuga's last minute scene stealing. Hilda should have been the final boss whether she was redeemed in the end or not.
 
WestEgg said:
The story set up just feels very underwhelming. The Triforce has been split up into three parts and sent to "the chosen ones" or whatever, Ganon just has his, Zelda just has hers, and Link needs to earn his. Why is the Triforce pre-split and already within its chosen ones? I mean, to get it into the hands of the main trio of course so the game can start, but it just feels really arbitrary here. We know why it happens in Ocarina of Time, and we know Ocarina of Time is why its split in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Heck, even the NES Zelda games justify this with the backstory regarding Zelda's brother. Here, it's just like "Yeah, you know the drill, let's get started". We know the Triforce was completed at the end of a Link to the Past, and is present in the Oracle games, so like, what happened between then and now? Because in every game before hand, the Triforce being divided was a pretty big deal and caused by a catastrophic event.
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In fact, at the end of the Oracles, when Ganon is defeated the Triforce splits again.
 
Sim87 said:
In fact, at the end of the Oracles, when Ganon is defeated the Triforce splits again.
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But that’s nonsense still. It does something similar at the end of Wind Waker, but the implication isn’t that it’s dividing and off to find new hosts, it’s just returning to the Sacred Realm. Leaving aside that the Oracle games already treat the Triforce weirdly, Ocarina pretty explicitly states that the Triforce will only split if the one who tries to claim it does not have a balance of Power, Wisdom, and Courage. Once it is reforged, it should not be split again until something similar occurs, like in the backstory of Zelda 1/2 for example.
 
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