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smoothies said:
I finished Chrono Cross last week and was totally on board with all of the twists and turns near the end of the story. I hope to write some impressions tomorrow, spoiler version here and non-spoiler version in the games completed thread.
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Big Chrono Cross spoilers here. Don't click if you haven't finished the game.

It’s hard to pick a favorite location in this game, but Chronopolis was incredible. The fight with FATE had the best music in the game. The character of Lynx being FATE utilizing Serge’s father as a vessel mixed with his greatest fear was interesting. I feel like having to face a parent mixed with your greatest fear would be a dealbreaker for most potential heroes.

The Chrono Trigger ties - The first half or so of this game totally works as its own standalone world, but I have to say I kind of geeked out as it started to incorporate Chrono Trigger elements. When I found the save terminal from Robo’s time in the Dead Sea, I think that was the first time I got really excited about the ways it folds the events of Chrono Trigger into the narrative. I would have liked to see more direct connections to the playable characters - I think that Guile could have easily continued Magus’s story without too much extra elbow grease, just have him go on his journey for his sister while Serge has turned into Lynx. And Ayla and Leah (both from prehistoric worlds) could have been more directly tied together. I thought that everything they did with Lucca was really great. I think she was my favorite Chrono Trigger character, and she’s a great through-thread and mediator/communicator between events. Belthasar’s role was great too. The kingdom of Zeal is so dope… Now I want to replay Chrono Trigger lol. I thought that the end with Schala/Lavos was all about the theme that traumatic events continue to have echoes that require action and care. And I loved the end credits sequence with the live footage that seemed to say, maybe not this lifetime, but our spirits will connect one way or another.

I finished the game with Serge, Kid and Mojo. The little message at the end from Mojo was so sweet. One thing I noticed is that you can’t take screenshots during the essay epilogue. There were so many great characters to use in this game. I think I low-key utilized a mix of silly and straightforward characters. Let’s see who I spent non-mandatory time with… Guile, Kid, Harle, Steena, Viper, Fargo, Starky, Mojo, Funguy, Norris, Karsh and Grobyc.

It’s rare that I look forward to doing a New Game + right after finishing an RPG, but I certainly look forward to running through this one again.
 
smoothies said:
Big Chrono Cross spoilers here. Don't click if you haven't finished the game.

It’s hard to pick a favorite location in this game, but Chronopolis was incredible. The fight with FATE had the best music in the game. The character of Lynx being FATE utilizing Serge’s father as a vessel mixed with his greatest fear was interesting. I feel like having to face a parent mixed with your greatest fear would be a dealbreaker for most potential heroes.

The Chrono Trigger ties - The first half or so of this game totally works as its own standalone world, but I have to say I kind of geeked out as it started to incorporate Chrono Trigger elements. When I found the save terminal from Robo’s time in the Dead Sea, I think that was the first time I got really excited about the ways it folds the events of Chrono Trigger into the narrative. I would have liked to see more direct connections to the playable characters - I think that Guile could have easily continued Magus’s story without too much extra elbow grease, just have him go on his journey for his sister while Serge has turned into Lynx. And Ayla and Leah (both from prehistoric worlds) could have been more directly tied together. I thought that everything they did with Lucca was really great. I think she was my favorite Chrono Trigger character, and she’s a great through-thread and mediator/communicator between events. Belthasar’s role was great too. The kingdom of Zeal is so dope… Now I want to replay Chrono Trigger lol. I thought that the end with Schala/Lavos was all about the theme that traumatic events continue to have echoes that require action and care. And I loved the end credits sequence with the live footage that seemed to say, maybe not this lifetime, but our spirits will connect one way or another.

I finished the game with Serge, Kid and Mojo. The little message at the end from Mojo was so sweet. One thing I noticed is that you can’t take screenshots during the essay epilogue. There were so many great characters to use in this game. I think I low-key utilized a mix of silly and straightforward characters. Let’s see who I spent non-mandatory time with… Guile, Kid, Harle, Steena, Viper, Fargo, Starky, Mojo, Funguy, Norris, Karsh and Grobyc.

It’s rare that I look forward to doing a New Game + right after finishing an RPG, but I certainly look forward to running through this one again.
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I love the high concept stuff and Chrono Trigger tie ins for Chrono Cross so much. What the Dead Sea is, how FATE works (it manipulating people via save points is wild), and how the islands in general came to be and why. There’s so much going on I do forget some of the fine details the farther away I am from a playthrough, but wow when you get in there and see it all come together bit by bit it’s such an amazing journey.

Glad to hear you enjoyed Cross smoothies :)
 
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Two days ago now I started my replay of Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga! I loved the game growing up and have always wanted to replay it, but all of my replay attempts fizzled out early. This time though I’m fully committed to a playthrough. I’m about six hours in iirc and I’m heading towards the airport.

Between the first Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi game, the latter of course most resembles Mario RPG which makes sense as it was directed by the same person and has Yoko Shimomura return for the soundtrack (who of course turns in amazing work). Instead of three characters to control, you only have two here, but you do get a lot of customization for your characters between three equipment pieces and six stats to level up. The accessories are quite powerful even early on, like one that doubles money earned from battles and another that doubles XP if you can avoid getting hit which is a very active affair with all of the attack patterns and tells to keep track of. Compared to future games which only focus on jumping and hammer attacks, you do get magic attacks early on (fire and lightning) as a third option which I forgot entirely about.

Compared to future Mario and Luigi games, what I’m digging most about this game is just how snappy it all feels. Characters move and attack quickly, the tutorials are not too long, and while there is a hint of levels being on the long side, the momentum through these locations largely feels good. I think one thing that hurts here however is the dungeons are fairly empty compared to Mario RPG. Mario and Luigi both don’t talk either which doesn’t help. There was a good string of events / minigames at the start of the game like the Border Jump game, but that has tapered off as I’ve gone on. I know there is more to come however so I’m looking forward to that.

One last thing to end on for now, the most amusing stretch of the game so far was the Woohoo Hooniversity section. There has been tons of nods and references throughout the game (“Now you are playing with power” and “Excuuuuse me Princess” get riffed on and Professor E. Gadd shows up for example), but I don’t think I picked up on this university level was riffing on Metroid Fusion which is pretty wild given how quick a turnaround that would be. When you enter the place the music is lonely and ominous and you immediately learn all of the lab coat wearing researchers have been transformed into monsters by Cackletta which is pretty dark for a Mario game as you see the last character hideously transform! This matches the start of Fusion where the first monsters are lab coat wearing researchers. The Dr. Mario viruses are monsters here too (X parasites!) and there are strange creatures being grown in tubes filled with light green water. I’m pretty positive they were evoking Metroid Fusion here, but even if they weren’t it’s my favorite level so far! The layout, puzzles, and atmosphere are all great!

Edit: One last thing I completely forgot about this game that I thought was interesting, at least so far I have not encountered a single inn / health recovery spot in the game so far. You get showered in mushrooms early on and that’s largely your stock to work with until you find an item shop hours in (which is fine for me, but maybe tough for younger players). The only full heal I’ve found so far is that every boss battle refills your HP and Bros Points which is generous.
 
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I was re-listening to the Soul Hackers 2 OST and it got me thinking: What are some examples of good, yet badly-implemented soundtracks in games? Soundtracks that in general are great, but poorly used, paced, or balanced?

What I mean by that is: Soul Hackers 2 has a great OST on paper. A lot of the area themes are catchy and fun, the battle music is pretty good, and the main boss theme kicks ass. BUT the music you're going to be listening to the lion's share of the game - when you're in one of the game's two types of dungeons - is really bland, low-key, and kind of boring. It wouldn't be a problem if each track (the main dungeon theme, and the Soul Matrix dungeon theme) were only used in say, one dungeon each. But they're not, they're the ONLY TWO DUNGEON THEMES in the entire game other than the final dungeon. And it gets to the point where when you enter another dungeon late in the game, my immediate thought was always "good lord, this same music track AGAIN?".

And it's not like Persona where dungeons are something you're only in for some overall small percentage of the game. Soul Hackers 2 is basically a dungeon crawler, so you hear those tracks CONSTANTLY. It really hurts the overall soundtrack, despite it being pretty good if you're just listening to it outside of the context of the game itself.
 
Don’t quite have a focus going yet, trying to figure out if I’m going on P3P or Ryza 1
 
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SammyJ9 said:
I was re-listening to the Soul Hackers 2 OST and it got me thinking: What are some examples of good, yet badly-implemented soundtracks in games? Soundtracks that in general are great, but poorly used, paced, or balanced?

What I mean by that is: Soul Hackers 2 has a great OST on paper. A lot of the area themes are catchy and fun, the battle music is pretty good, and the main boss theme kicks ass. BUT the music you're going to be listening to the lion's share of the game - when you're in one of the game's two types of dungeons - is really bland, low-key, and kind of boring. It wouldn't be a problem if each track (the main dungeon theme, and the Soul Matrix dungeon theme) were only used in say, one dungeon each. But they're not, they're the ONLY TWO DUNGEON THEMES in the entire game other than the final dungeon. And it gets to the point where when you enter another dungeon late in the game, my immediate thought was always "good lord, this same music track AGAIN?".

And it's not like Persona where dungeons are something you're only in for some overall small percentage of the game. Soul Hackers 2 is basically a dungeon crawler, so you hear those tracks CONSTANTLY. It really hurts the overall soundtrack, despite it being pretty good if you're just listening to it outside of the context of the game itself.
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I might be misremembering here, but I believe in Xenoblade 3 the area themes reset after every battle and given how long it could take to get to the more interesting parts of the song (given the dramatic shift in style compared to past games) you’d rarely get to hear them. It made one third of the excellent soundtrack fall a bit flat.
 
SammyJ9 said:
I was re-listening to the Soul Hackers 2 OST and it got me thinking: What are some examples of good, yet badly-implemented soundtracks in games? Soundtracks that in general are great, but poorly used, paced, or balanced?

What I mean by that is: Soul Hackers 2 has a great OST on paper. A lot of the area themes are catchy and fun, the battle music is pretty good, and the main boss theme kicks ass. BUT the music you're going to be listening to the lion's share of the game - when you're in one of the game's two types of dungeons - is really bland, low-key, and kind of boring. It wouldn't be a problem if each track (the main dungeon theme, and the Soul Matrix dungeon theme) were only used in say, one dungeon each. But they're not, they're the ONLY TWO DUNGEON THEMES in the entire game other than the final dungeon. And it gets to the point where when you enter another dungeon late in the game, my immediate thought was always "good lord, this same music track AGAIN?".

And it's not like Persona where dungeons are something you're only in for some overall small percentage of the game. Soul Hackers 2 is basically a dungeon crawler, so you hear those tracks CONSTANTLY. It really hurts the overall soundtrack, despite it being pretty good if you're just listening to it outside of the context of the game itself.
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This is off-topic but: "Third Pillar" with a shoestring budget 😂
 
My copy of Silent Hope finally arrived and started yesterday, reaching the third area. Overall I really like this AA experience games and this one really respects your time. While you only have 3 abilities per class you really need to learn how to use them to learn how to use each character and there is no respec bullshit, just press a button and you get all your points to redistribute as you like (really good when you try the second class of each character). On that note I also like the game rewards you for changing characters in the abyss, getting a permanent bonus for that run so it encourages you to use (and level) multiple characters.

On the resource side the games gives you a lot, I've never been in a situation where I don't have enough materials to process and make weapons/food and even though it takes in game time to process the material you can pay (and gems are plentifull) to immediately get the processed materials. Also no multiple currency/materials for upgrade, you only have upgrade points and you get them by recycling weapons/armor you don't use so even if you don't get rare/super rare memories in the dungeon, you still can upgrade your equipment by converting them to upgrade points. Food works as permanent bonus for the run so even if you have weaker characters you can choose up to 4 food items and make the run easier

And finally the dungeon, no "start at lv1" or "go to the beginning if you die". In every area there are multiple bonfires so you can start at that level, the level indicator tells you if the next one has a crystal, bonfire or enemy arena and there are challenges you can take to win some extra exp and level up quicker. The areas so far have been standard weather related (so far spring, autumn and winter) but each one has it's own charm.

The only thing wierd is how the game calculates your total strength. I had an area 1 super rare weapon with 15-20 attack stat and Max HP and critical bonus and the second area normal weapon had an attack stats of 23-28 but the total calculation was 27 against 29 from the weaker weapon. Tested in battle and the second area weapon was dishing more damage so the upgrade/downgrade indicator may reflect other things other than pure damage (like the rarity of the weapon)

Finally, some of the weapons look funny.

5iGIIXa.jpg
 
I'm here to let u all know I made 0% progress in Reverie since the last time I posted here. 🫡 But I finally got a Steam Deck so I hope the portability aspect of it will help me with that now!
First I'm planning on finishing Future Redeemed, I'm at Chappy 4 but the Duo fight is kicking my butt on there rn. XD
 
Appelsider said:
I'm here to let u all know I made 0% progress in Reverie since the last time I posted here. 🫡 But I finally got a Steam Deck so I hope the portability aspect of it will help me with that now!
First I'm planning on finishing Future Redeemed, I'm at Chappy 4 but the Duo fight is kicking my butt on there rn. XD
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Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Reverie when you get into it! Also excited to hear what you think when you beat Future Redeemed :)
 
Mandos said:
When you play a rpg and feel like just pissing off someone even if they’re a party member(finally got P3P going and Junpei rubs me wrong XD)
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I know that feeling. I benched Junpei the moment I could, he stinks.
 
I’m at a point in Sea of Stars where I did a water temple-y dungeon and was hoping to leave to go do side stuff, the plot is starting to confuse me a bit about where it’s going, then I was force-teleported to a snowy mountain with jammin’ music that doesn’t really seem to belong there, and I just fought an ice golem laying down sick beats with his snowball pals.

This whole section feels a bit weirdly-paced, but at this point I’m just like… sure, okay. I’m along for the ride.
 
@chocolate_supra since you’re further than me in Sea of Stars:
Maybe it’s because I took a couple week break from the game and I’m not remembering, but am I supposed to know who the “Immortal Alchemist” is that you meet in the tower (he’s also the Archivist?) The characters are all like “whoa you’re the Immortal Alchemist!” And basically acted like he was a god, and I have no clue who he is.
 
SammyJ9 said:
@chocolate_supra since you’re further than me in Sea of Stars:
Maybe it’s because I took a couple week break from the game and I’m not remembering, but am I supposed to know who the “Immortal Alchemist” is that you meet in the tower (he’s also the Archivist?) The characters are all like “whoa you’re the Immortal Alchemist!” And basically acted like he was a god, and I have no clue who he is.
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Not chocolate_supra but I can take this one

No

Unless you're familiar with the lore Sabotage has released about their universe, in which case yes. But I don't think he has much of a mention before in SoS and I don't think he's explicitly mentioned in the Messenger either from what I recall
 
SammyJ9 said:
@chocolate_supra since you’re further than me in Sea of Stars:
Maybe it’s because I took a couple week break from the game and I’m not remembering, but am I supposed to know who the “Immortal Alchemist” is that you meet in the tower (he’s also the Archivist?) The characters are all like “whoa you’re the Immortal Alchemist!” And basically acted like he was a god, and I have no clue who he is.
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Seconding what @NabiscoFelt said, nope.

I had no idea who he was either. Seems like it's supposed to be that the people in-universe know about him because he's been around for generations, but we aren't necessarily supposed to know. Also I played The Messenger and he wasn't anything that came up there either (except for, as Nabisco said, some of their expanded universe lore that they were dropping on the Discord years ago). So don't worry, you aren't really missing anything.

SammyJ9 said:
a snowy mountain with jammin’ music that doesn’t really seem to belong there
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I noticed this too and I just figured out why. And I'm embarrassed that I missed this. I don't think this would really be considered spoilery, buuuut
that whole island is where The Messenger takes place, and the areas in it are areas from The Messenger, with their music being remixes of the corresponding themes from that game. So that's why the Snowy Peaks especially have suddenly really MegaManish music, because that was the era that The Messenger was mimicking.
 
Thanks both of you, that makes more sense. I was just a bit confused because the game presents it with the cadence and feel of it being a Reveal, but it really isn’t (I guess unless you’ve done a lot of lore diving or the like into Sabotage stuff)
 
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Also @SammyJ9

In case you're interested in seeing what I was talking about in the second spoiler above:

I dunno if you've played The Messenger yet, but if you have this link goes through the connections between the two games. BE AWARE it does eventually get into spoilers, but the very first thing they show is the comparisons for the area we're talking about so you should be safe if you look at only that first part. If you're interested.

Once it gets to a point where it's talking about a shared boss in Autumn Hills, STOP THERE because right after that it starts showing later areas.

 
Okay so uh

Whoa

Regarding all the spoilery bits I was talking about above, which aren't really spoilers especially once you're a ways into Sea of Stars:
It's not just the aesthetics that are brought over from those areas of The Messenger, they literally adapted the terrain into a 3/4 overhead view as well:



I am blown away.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Okay so uh

Whoa

Regarding all the spoilery bits I was talking about above, which aren't really spoilers especially once you're a ways into Sea of Stars:
It's not just the aesthetics that are brought over from those areas of The Messenger, they literally adapted the terrain into a 3/4 overhead view as well:



I am blown away.
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Easily the best part about the game for me! Reaching this point and having that realisation was so satisfying <3
 
ermitron2 said:
I just leveled the farmer to upgrade her class. Not only she gained a cool hat, now I have a goddam Pineapple as a weapon

Sb2xuM4.jpg
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I picked it up myself today! Finally got around to trying the demo and I enjoyed it, so I shelled out for the full game.

What have been your favorite classes so far? The three I've mainly ended up rotating between are Rogue, Warrior, and Wanderer. I know some people complained that the classes feel too samey, but the balance feels really nice to me - they're similar enough that you don't get screwed over by muscle memory (which is important since you swap characters around a lot), but not so much that you don't end up with some play styles you prefer to others.
 
paranoodle said:
I picked it up myself today! Finally got around to trying the demo and I enjoyed it, so I shelled out for the full game.

What have been your favorite classes so far? The three I've mainly ended up rotating between are Rogue, Warrior, and Wanderer. I know some people complained that the classes feel too samey, but the balance feels really nice to me - they're similar enough that you don't get screwed over by muscle memory (which is important since you swap characters around a lot), but not so much that you don't end up with some play styles you prefer to others.
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I'm surpirsed about the classes, I feel each one is very different to adapt multiple gameplay styles, none of them feels the same to me, not to mention the fact that you can respec at any moment to change and level up skills depending on the enemies bosses which is great because you never feel like you wasted any skill point. Also you start to notice each charcacter uinque style ie the rogue and alchemist has the teleport dodge, but the speed and distance each one covers is different

I'm closing to finishing area 3 (boss killed me) and so far my favorite ones have been rogue advanced class, fighter advanced class and farmer advanced class. Rogue gains rotating swords that kills everything, fighter becomes one punch (wo)man and farmer abilites just change her playstyle to be stronger (with a long reach weapon)

I also found funny that fighter advanced class
becomes a sister lol, like I didn't expect that one to be punching things, but then you read her backstory and kinda makes sense
6H6pPIE.jpg

Also kudos to Marvelous/xseed, the box of the day one edition has very good art and the artbook is nice
 
ermitron2 said:
I'm surpirsed about the classes, I feel each one is very different to adapt multiple gameplay styles, none of them feels the same to me, not to mention the fact that you can respec at any moment to change and level up skills depending on the enemies bosses which is great because you never feel like you wasted any skill point. Also you start to notice each charcacter uinque style ie the rogue and alchemist has the teleport dodge, but the speed and distance each one covers is different

I'm closing to finishing area 3 (boss killed me) and so far my favorite ones have been rogue advanced class, fighter advanced class and farmer advanced class. Rogue gains rotating swords that kills everything, fighter becomes one punch (wo)man and farmer abilites just change her playstyle to be stronger (with a long reach weapon)

I also found funny that fighter advanced class
becomes a sister lol, like I didn't expect that one to be punching things, but then you read her backstory and kinda makes sense
6H6pPIE.jpg

Also kudos to Marvelous/xseed, the box of the day one edition has very good art and the artbook is nice
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Nice!!

I just unlocked Trickster and yeah, Rogue is sooo good now. I already liked Rogue from the start, but its one big weakness is groups of enemies - it's great for bosses and one-on-ones, but doesn't deal great with AoE. And Trickster completely makes up for that, I zoom around like a murder rocket now, it's great.

I think I'm going to try to get every character to level 15 so I can get a good feel for all of them, because there's some I haven't played much yet. Being able to mix-and-match skills across classes is really nice for making a play style you like on most characters.

At the moment I'm still on area 3, I haven't reached the boss yet though. The bosses for areas 1 and 2 (and the mini-boss for area 3) went down in a single try each though, so we'll see if I run into trouble or not.
 
Okay so in The Completionist's video on Sea of Stars there's a point where he puts footage of the game up against footage of Octopath.

I know people talk about HD2D as a good way to bring back old games, but.. whatever you'd call SoS's style of pixelart, I think I officially prefer that over HD2D. I genuinely think it looks better. I'm seriously blown away by the graphics of this game. If we get a chance at new Chrono Trigger, I'll say "hell no" to HD2D and scream for whatever Sabotage has done here.

Plus the battle system might be my favorite in any RPG ever, which sounds like an exaggeration but it is not. It takes the base of Chrono Trigger's system (including double and triple techs), adds my favorite part of SMRPG's system (the timed hits), some form of Bravely Default's boosting, Octopath's breaking points, and adds the ability to hotswap party members on the fly without costing a turn or anything. It's fantastic.

If there is some new Chrono Trigger remake or sequel I'd hope some of those battle system features could wind up in the game. Timed hits to do a crit would great (instead of them being random), and hotswapping characters would be amazing as I tend to try and optimize my Chrono team rather than experiment and play around, which causes me to kinda miss out on some fun throughout the game. Now I know there's a whole story reason for there only ever being three characters at one time but that was just to have the gameplay limitation make sense in-world, it's not something that has to be retained in a remake, and after playing SoS I don't think it should be!

Goddamn

Sea of Stars might be one of my favorite RPGs of all time.
 
paranoodle said:
Nice!!

I just unlocked Trickster and yeah, Rogue is sooo good now. I already liked Rogue from the start, but its one big weakness is groups of enemies - it's great for bosses and one-on-ones, but doesn't deal great with AoE. And Trickster completely makes up for that, I zoom around like a murder rocket now, it's great.

I think I'm going to try to get every character to level 15 so I can get a good feel for all of them, because there's some I haven't played much yet. Being able to mix-and-match skills across classes is really nice for making a play style you like on most characters.

At the moment I'm still on area 3, I haven't reached the boss yet though. The bosses for areas 1 and 2 (and the mini-boss for area 3) went down in a single try each though, so we'll see if I run into trouble or not.
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Yeah once you unlock every advanced class most of the weakness of the characters get covered. Also the elemental gems really paid off just attacking with the weakness of the enemies does a lot of damage
 
ermitron2 said:
Yeah once you unlock every advanced class most of the weakness of the characters get covered. Also the elemental gems really paid off just attacking with the weakness of the enemies does a lot of damage
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Yeah! Played a bit more tonight, got past the area 3 boss. It took me three tries this time because wow, she's way harder than the previous two, no contest. Great design though, and fun mechanics.

First time I tried on rogue and got shredded (didn't have the defensive element for her, and rogue's dodges are pretty bad in that fight), then it took me two tries on warrior. Got her to around 20% on the first warrior try but I made too many mistakes. So, not too bad considering she's only level 16.

I also tried a couple more characters, and I'm adding the archer to characters I like playing as. Caster I'm not sure on yet, I like some of the ideas but he feels a little too slow and the wind-up on his spells is rough. And unlike warrior, he doesn't have the HP/defense to afford eating hits.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Okay so in The Completionist's video on Sea of Stars there's a point where he puts footage of the game up against footage of Octopath.

I know people talk about HD2D as a good way to bring back old games, but.. whatever you'd call SoS's style of pixelart, I think I officially prefer that over HD2D. I genuinely think it looks better. I'm seriously blown away by the graphics of this game. If we get a chance at new Chrono Trigger, I'll say "hell no" to HD2D and scream for whatever Sabotage has done here.

Plus the battle system might be my favorite in any RPG ever, which sounds like an exaggeration but it is not. It takes the base of Chrono Trigger's system (including double and triple techs), adds my favorite part of SMRPG's system (the timed hits), some form of Bravely Default's boosting, Octopath's breaking points, and adds the ability to hotswap party members on the fly without costing a turn or anything. It's fantastic.

If there is some new Chrono Trigger remake or sequel I'd hope some of those battle system features could wind up in the game. Timed hits to do a crit would great (instead of them being random), and hotswapping characters would be amazing as I tend to try and optimize my Chrono team rather than experiment and play around, which causes me to kinda miss out on some fun throughout the game. Now I know there's a whole story reason for there only ever being three characters at one time but that was just to have the gameplay limitation make sense in-world, it's not something that has to be retained in a remake, and after playing SoS I don't think it should be!

Goddamn

Sea of Stars might be one of my favorite RPGs of all time.
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Glad you liked it so much, especially with the Chrono Trigger influence so front and center!

I wish I had this enthusiasm for the battle system, but it really feels like it's missing something, IMO. The pieces are there: The break points, timed hits, combos, etc., but something about it just isn't totally working for me. I think the big 'secret sauce' element that's missing for me is customization: Pretty much all of my favorite turn-based battle systems (SMT, Persona, Bravely Default, Octopath) have a heavy element of customization, optimization, and combining skills and abilities to really break the game in your favor (but are balanced in such a way that they expect you to do that and the difficulty is adjusted accordingly!). Sea of Stars just... doesn't have that. It's a whole major component of turn-based battle systems that might be my favorite part, so to have it essentially missing is a big bummer.

Actually the more I think about it, the more that I'm realizing this is another case of the 'pre-battle prep strategy' versus 'pure in-battle strategy' topic that I've had brewing in me for a while and want to write about at some point. It's something that I've realized is key to most of the RPGs I enjoy, but it's hard to explain and put into words, so I'll have to work on it. Could make a good topic if I can figure out a good way to get the words out.
 
paranoodle said:
Yeah! Played a bit more tonight, got past the area 3 boss. It took me three tries this time because wow, she's way harder than the previous two, no contest. Great design though, and fun mechanics.

First time I tried on rogue and got shredded (didn't have the defensive element for her, and rogue's dodges are pretty bad in that fight), then it took me two tries on warrior. Got her to around 20% on the first warrior try but I made too many mistakes. So, not too bad considering she's only level 16.

I also tried a couple more characters, and I'm adding the archer to characters I like playing as. Caster I'm not sure on yet, I like some of the ideas but he feels a little too slow and the wind-up on his spells is rough. And unlike warrior, he doesn't have the HP/defense to afford eating hits.
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haha yeah 3rd boss is pretty much a call to use ranged characters. Just came back with the bomber and was really easy

For alchemist/sage you can go either black hole and explosion, or just use magic barrier and impact in the middle of the enmies, and since impact stuns enemies magic sphere is a good optio
 
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SammyJ9 said:
Glad you liked it so much, especially with the Chrono Trigger influence so front and center!
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It's even more front and center than I've been letting on, because a lot of Chrono-y things it does tie to s p o i l e r s 😅

SammyJ9 said:
I wish I had this enthusiasm for the battle system, but it really feels like it's missing something, IMO. The pieces are there: The break points, timed hits, combos, etc., but something about it just isn't totally working for me. I think the big 'secret sauce' element that's missing for me is customization: Pretty much all of my favorite turn-based battle systems (SMT, Persona, Bravely Default, Octopath) have a heavy element of customization, optimization, and combining skills and abilities to really break the game in your favor (but are balanced in such a way that they expect you to do that and the difficulty is adjusted accordingly!). Sea of Stars just... doesn't have that. It's a whole major component of turn-based battle systems that might be my favorite part, so to have it essentially missing is a big bummer.

Actually the more I think about it, the more that I'm realizing this is another case of the 'pre-battle prep strategy' versus 'pure in-battle strategy' topic that I've had brewing in me for a while and want to write about at some point. It's something that I've realized is key to most of the RPGs I enjoy, but it's hard to explain and put into words, so I'll have to work on it. Could make a good topic if I can figure out a good way to get the words out.
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And IMO, this is another CTism that I think was intended. One of the things I liked about CT was just how simple it was compared to other Square RPGs (especially FFVI) where a lot of the customization and optimization just really isn't there. You level up, find some better gear as you go, and keep unlocking new techs. Sea of Stars is actually quite a bit deeper than CT as it allows you to pick your levelup bonuses (I decided early on I wanted Valere to be a high attack, Zale to be a high magic, and Garl to be a tank, and boy howdy I succeeded) and the combination of the break system and party member hotswapping means you're constantly swapping and mixing attacks, charged attacks, magic, and combos that all have different combinations of effects on the break palettes, in order to beat most of the back half bosses.

Once I got into a groove of watching what break panels came up and cycling through characters to effectively stop enemies and bosses from casting most of the time (seriously I got to a point where I was keeping bosses from doing jack shit for several full turns at a time), I really really got to feeling like I was on a roll. And it was probably about halfway through the game before I even realized you could hotswap party members without penalty. It was also a long while before I realized many of the combos solve the problem of things like "damn, this break palette has blunt, sword, and poison, and he'll cast in 1 turn, how am I gonna do three different effect types in one move?" As The Completionist said, it turns each battle, especially boss battles, into a puzzle. So I started strategizing by building combo meters, keeping MP up, using attacks that would Delay the enemy/boss casting (which meant pumping the hell out of the MP of one character, again because you can choose your levelup bonuses) and it felt, like, great.

Seriously it felt like a more fluid, more customizable Chrono Trigger, which I think is what they were going for. And that puzzle-like setup was giving me the opportunity and incentive to play with all the characters, as all the different elements are essential in each battle. That's something Chrono Trigger does not do, it makes you commit to a party for stretches of time as you can only swap out at save points. SoS lets me play with the whole party in every battle, and that's one of the things I'd hope they can allow for in a potential remake or sequel. It's certainly not nearly as deep or customizable as, say, an FF or a Xeno, but something that felt like a genuine evolution of CT's battle system, in ways Tokyo RPG Factory could only ever dream of touching.

Honestly the fact that the features of this game has me so hyped on a potential Chrono game that we may never get is the biggest compliment I could give it. This is the first indie RPG I've ever felt was on that same level.


And I mean, like, sorry it's not clicking with you as much. I certainly understand what you're talking about an am not trying to argue against it, I'm just jazzed in my own little way over here. 😅
 
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chocolate_supra said:
It's even more front and center than I've been letting on, because a lot of Chrono-y things it does tie to s p o i l e r s 😅


And IMO, this is another CTism that I think was intended. One of the things I liked about CT was just how simple it was compared to other Square RPGs (especially FFVI) where a lot of the customization and optimization just really isn't there. You level up, find some better gear as you go, and keep unlocking new techs. Sea of Stars is actually quite a bit deeper than CT as it allows you to pick your levelup bonuses (I decided early on I wanted Valere to be a high attack, Zale to be a high magic, and Garl to be a tank, and boy howdy I succeeded) and the combination of the break system and party member hotswapping means you're constantly swapping and mixing attacks, charged attacks, magic, and combos that all have different combinations of effects on the break palettes, in order to beat most of the back half bosses.

Once I got into a groove of watching what break panels came up and cycling through characters to effectively stop enemies and bosses from casting most of the time (seriously I got to a point where I was keeping bosses from doing jack shit for several full turns at a time), I really really got to feeling like I was on a roll. And it was probably about halfway through the game before I even realized you could hotswap party members without penalty. It was also a long while before I realized many of the combos solve the problem of things like "damn, this break palette has blunt, sword, and poison, and he'll cast in 1 turn, how am I gonna do three different effect types in one move?" As The Completionist said, it turns each battle, especially boss battles, into a puzzle. So I started strategizing by building combo meters, keeping MP up, using attacks that would Delay the enemy/boss casting (which meant pumping the hell out of the MP of one character, again because you can choose your levelup bonuses) and it felt, like, great.

Seriously it felt like a more fluid, more customizable Chrono Trigger, which I think is what they were going for. And that puzzle-like setup was giving me the opportunity and incentive to play with all the characters, as all the different elements are essential in each battle. That's something Chrono Trigger does not do, it makes you commit to a party for stretches of time as you can only swap out at save points. SoS lets me play with the whole party in every battle, and that's one of the things I'd hope they can allow for in a potential remake or sequel. It's certainly not nearly as deep or customizable as, say, an FF or a Xeno, but something that felt like a genuine evolution of CT's battle system, in ways Tokyo RPG Factory could only ever dream of touching.

Honestly the fact that the features of this game has me so hyped on a potential Chrono game that we may never get is the biggest compliment I could give it. This is the first indie RPG I've ever felt was on that same level.


And I mean, like, sorry it's not clicking with you as much. I certainly understand what you're talking about an am not trying to argue against it, I'm just jazzed in my own little way over here. 😅
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No you're all good! That's awesome that it connected with you on so many levels, and I definitely don't want to take that away from you either. You being jazzed about it is fantastic and a good thing :)

I think I'm just trying to piece together my thoughts about why I'm liking, but not loving, Sea of Stars. Especially when it seems like it should be so perfectly in my wheelhouse. I'm planning to write up a full big thing about it at some point, probably once I finish the game, but my main thoughts for now (sort of off the top of my head) are:

- I'm beginning to wonder if I don't actually like simple turn-based combat as much as I thought I did, or as much as I used to. Now that I've played so many more complex and different takes on turn-based combat, have my tastes just shifted? Do I still even like the kinds of games that were simpler and more straightforward? I haven't revisited a lot of them in many years, so it's possible. OR is it just that that lack of pre-planning/customization/'menu work' is getting to me?

- Another thing could be the characters and story - or more specifically, that I'm not really feeling either one at all in Sea of Stars, so it's another element that's not keeping me super engaged or driven to see what happens next. Chrono Trigger, for example, was constantly pulling me along and blowing my mind with where the plot went, and Sea of Stars... I barely even know that there is a plot, honestly. It's not something that stands out to me (yet! Could get better!)

- Finally: I wonder how much of my enjoyment of this game has been colored by playing Chained Echoes earlier this year. Both games have a ton of similarities and very similar influences and are trying to do a lot of the same things, but at least so far, I'm finding myself thinking that Chained Echoes mostly does them better. Or, it might be more fair to say, more in ways that appeal to me, personally. It makes me wonder that if I hadn't played Chained Echoes, especially so recently, that I might be enjoying this game a lot more without having that comparison constantly in my head.

Anyway! Lots of things to think about, and at some point I will gather all these thoughts into something more coherent and organized. Maybe. Probably.
 
SammyJ9 said:
- I'm beginning to wonder if I don't actually like simple turn-based combat as much as I thought I did, or as much as I used to. Now that I've played so many more complex and different takes on turn-based combat, have my tastes just shifted? Do I still even like the kinds of games that were simpler and more straightforward? I haven't revisited a lot of them in many years, so it's possible. OR is it just that that lack of pre-planning/customization/'menu work' is getting to me?
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See I think this might be why our enjoyment is differing: I love traditional turn-based RPGs, and even my current favorite series (Xenoblade) has a battle system that I not only don't really like, but I also don't even fully utilize because it's so complex that it mostly sails over my head (I think I've broken an orb maybe three times across two full playthroughs of XB2, for instance). Modern RPGs have so much going on that I tend to ignore a lot of it and only focus on what I enjoy engaging with, which is cool when it means the game is layered enough to allow for different playstyles! But for me, a genuine turn-based lover, Sea of Stars is like an oasis in a wide desert. If you're not super into turn-based (and I know a lot of people aren't), I can totally see this game feeling like it misses something.

SammyJ9 said:
- Another thing could be the characters and story - or more specifically, that I'm not really feeling either one at all in Sea of Stars, so it's another element that's not keeping me super engaged or driven to see what happens next. Chrono Trigger, for example, was constantly pulling me along and blowing my mind with where the plot went, and Sea of Stars... I barely even know that there is a plot, honestly. It's not something that stands out to me (yet! Could get better!)
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Okay I will say: the true ending almost feels like it should've been integrated into the main story. I really enjoyed the initial ending, I thought what they did with it was pretty strong, but the true ending adds just enough that I feel it could've been better to have the two possible endings as optional forks (like CT) rather than having to view one ending and then be told there's a "true ending" that you have to do a little more digging for. I wonder how many people are gonna play through and not realize or not bother to go after the extra story stuff, and I think it's too bad that a lot of people might miss it.

I dunno how far you are in the story so I won't say "it's about to get really plot-y!" because maybe it already has and you just aren't feeling it. But I do agree that while I see a lot of Chrono DNA in the story, the story is not as strong as CT's. Though that's a high bar to clear so 😅

SammyJ9 said:
- Finally: I wonder how much of my enjoyment of this game has been colored by playing Chained Echoes earlier this year.
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Thanks for reminding me that I need to play this.
 
chocolate_supra said:
See I think this might be why our enjoyment is differing: I love traditional turn-based RPGs, and even my current favorite series (Xenoblade) has a battle system that I not only don't really like, but I also don't even fully utilize because it's so complex that it mostly sails over my head (I think I've broken an orb maybe three times across two full playthroughs of XB2, for instance). Modern RPGs have so much going on that I tend to ignore a lot of it and only focus on what I enjoy engaging with, which is cool when it means the game is layered enough to allow for different playstyles! But for me, a genuine turn-based lover, Sea of Stars is like an oasis in a wide desert. If you're not super into turn-based (and I know a lot of people aren't), I can totally see this game feeling like it misses something.
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See, I thought I loved traditional turn-based combat (and I grew up on it!), but I'm starting to think that these days, what I'm really looking for is that sweet, sweet optimization and complexity that's layered on top of it in a lot of games. I love crunchy combat mechanics, optimizing numbers, and finding super complicated interactions to maximize power and efficiency. Maybe my brain is just broken :p
chocolate_supra said:
Okay I will say: the true ending almost feels like it should've been integrated into the main story. I really enjoyed the initial ending, I thought what they did with it was pretty strong, but the true ending adds just enough that I feel it could've been better to have the two possible endings as optional forks (like CT) rather than having to view one ending and then be told there's a "true ending" that you have to do a little more digging for. I wonder how many people are gonna play through and not realize or not bother to go after the extra story stuff, and I think it's too bad that a lot of people might miss it.

I dunno how far you are in the story so I won't say "it's about to get really plot-y!" because maybe it already has and you just aren't feeling it. But I do agree that while I see a lot of Chrono DNA in the story, the story is not as strong as CT's. Though that's a high bar to clear so 😅
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I'm only around halfway through, I think? So it's definitely possible the plot is about to ramp up. Hell, it kind of has, slightly: I just Met the Archivist/Alchemist at the top of the water tower and then teleported to the snowy mountain, which I'm in the middle of. We're trying to gain access to Mesa Island, I believe that's the current goal.
chocolate_supra said:
Thanks for reminding me that I need to play this.
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You definitely should! I think it takes influence a bit more from FF6 than Chrono Trigger, but it's a fantastic game that really goes places and does a lot of similar things to Sea of Stars. Very unique take on combat, too, especially later in the game.
 
SammyJ9 said:
I'm only around halfway through, I think? So it's definitely possible the plot is about to ramp up. Hell, it kind of has, slightly: I just Met the Archivist/Alchemist at the top of the water tower and then teleported to the snowy mountain, which I'm in the middle of. We're trying to gain access to Mesa Island, I believe that's the current goal.
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OH
okay, yeah. You're at the point where the plot started to click for me.

Have you played The Messenger, by any chance?

SammyJ9 said:
You definitely should! I think it takes influence a bit more from FF6 than Chrono Trigger, but it's a fantastic game that really goes places and does a lot of similar things to Sea of Stars. Very unique take on combat, too, especially later in the game.
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Oh it's on my list for sure, just trying to burn through my current backlog is all (and SoS counts as "backlog" because I bought it like two or three years ago 😅
 
I really love Xenoblade 3, but I can't figure out the Oroboros counter in a chain attack.

Akaik, you can do 1 manually which ends the chain, or start the chain with interlink 3 and get 2 Oroboros attacks during the chain. So why the counter?

...makes me think there's a way to do more?
 
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I’ve been slowly replaying Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga since I haven’t had much time for games, but even so I’ve been flying through the game. I have far more experience with RPGs now so I’m more confidently making my way through the game than I would have 20 years ago. The game is a lot more straightforward and focused than I remembered though there are a few off the beaten path secrets. While the dungeon stretches can be lengthy there’s been a lot of variety in the scenarios since I last posted as well as more minigames to enjoy so it’s been a more even experience since the more dungeon heavy start. Since my last post, I most enjoyed the stretch where Mario falls ill from eating a bad mushroom and retrieving the pieces of the Beanstar. I mentioned the game feels shorter than I remembered and the Beanstar section I just wrapped up was a good example of that. While the first piece had a minigame and a big new area to explore that concluded with a memorable boss fight at the end, the other three pieces were shorter stops around the world.

At this point I’ll probably post again when I finish the game as I believe I have just one more area to reach and explore before the final dungeon (Joke’s End). As I enter the home stretch, I’m really glad I finally revisited this game as it’s been a great time overall.
 
I didn’t think I’d actually beat Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga tonight haha. I finished around 14 hours which was far less than I was expecting as I thought it’d be roughly 20. I did not remember Joke’s End at all. That was a rad area as it fully played around with separating the two brothers. There’s other RPGs that split your party up, but with the mix of action and light puzzle solving it feels pretty special for old turn based RPGs. The final gauntlet with Bowser’s Castle was a bit draining, but appropriately so. I completely forgot the Koopalings were in this game lol. The final battle was a bit of slog as the attacks weren’t too tricky to dodge and did little damage if they did hit at least with my team. Looked cool though.

Overall I had a great time with the game as the dungeon heavy start gave way to a more balanced adventure for the rest of the game. Super Star Saga is probably my favorite in the Mario and Luigi series due to its tight pacing and variety of events. I rarely ever mixed up my battle strategy especially as I felt like the first Bros attack melted through bosses quick enough though some of the other moves came in handy here and there. Thankfully the variety in enemies and enemy attacks kept the journey interesting from start to finish.

I’m very glad I got this done when I did as I’ll likely play at the very least Mario Wonder and Alan Wake II before the Mario RPG Remake. One day I’ll play the last Mario RPG I haven’t played, Paper Jam, but I think that’s certainly not happening in the next few months at least. I’m now down to my last three games for final Wii U VC project: Mario Golf, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Donkey Kong 64. There’s a very good chance I’ll be starting the only one I would write about in this thread Final Fantasy Tactics Advance sooner rather than later. Like Super Star Saga, Tactics Advance is a replay for me and I’m really excited to replay it for the first time after two decades away.
 
xghost777 said:
I didn’t think I’d actually beat Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga tonight haha. I finished around 14 hours which was far less than I was expecting as I thought it’d be roughly 20. I did not remember Joke’s End at all. That was a rad area as it fully played around with separating the two brothers. There’s other RPGs that split your party up, but with the mix of action and light puzzle solving it feels pretty special for old turn based RPGs. The final gauntlet with Bowser’s Castle was a bit draining, but appropriately so. I completely forgot the Koopalings were in this game lol. The final battle was a bit of slog as the attacks weren’t too tricky to dodge and did little damage if they did hit at least with my team. Looked cool though.

Overall I had a great time with the game as the dungeon heavy start gave way to a more balanced adventure for the rest of the game. Super Star Saga is probably my favorite in the Mario and Luigi series due to its tight pacing and variety of events. I rarely ever mixed up my battle strategy especially as I felt like the first Bros attack melted through bosses quick enough though some of the other moves came in handy here and there. Thankfully the variety in enemies and enemy attacks kept the journey interesting from start to finish.

I’m very glad I got this done when I did as I’ll likely play at the very least Mario Wonder and Alan Wake II before the Mario RPG Remake. One day I’ll play the last Mario RPG I haven’t played, Paper Jam, but I think that’s certainly not happening in the next few months at least. I’m now down to my last three games for final Wii U VC project: Mario Golf, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Donkey Kong 64. There’s a very good chance I’ll be starting the only one I would write about in this thread Final Fantasy Tactics Advance sooner rather than later. Like Super Star Saga, Tactics Advance is a replay for me and I’m really excited to replay it for the first time after two decades away.
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Both FFTactics Advance and Superstar Saga are on my backlog, I still need to get to them at some point. Although I think I’m covered on Mario RPGs coming out soon!


Have you played DK64 before? It’ll be interesting to hear some impressions of that game from a 2023 perspective, even if it’s in another thread.
 
Finished area 4 of silent hope. That was intense, first area where I used the 8 characters, but archer and fighter where the MVP. Funny enough the boss was actually easy compared to area 3, took it down in my first try. Now onto the final area apparently, cause it has 29 floors, so I'm expecting 2 real bosses
 
gamerguy said:
I really liked FFTA... it's been a while, but earning the abilities from weapons and passing them around was fun for me.
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I really hope both Tactics Advance titles will be re-released at some point.

I haven't played the first one in a while, but i replayed A2 a couple of years ago and it was simply a blast to play. I don't really think they deserve the venom they usually get, even if i can understand why.
 
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