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Rumour Reddit Leaker: "Do you think everyone is primed and ready?" (Metroid Prime?)

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Prime already ran at 60 FPS on GameCube. I'm skeptical of such a huge overhaul that would necessitate halving the framerate, especially when it's a first-party developer at the helm.

Other FPS games that run at 30 on Switch are PS4/XBO ports.
 
LiC said:
Can't roll my eyes hard enough at the idea of any Metroid Prime port, remaster, remake, or sequel not running at 60 fps on Switch, especially if it's made by Retro. Prime 4 will be 60 fps and so will any form of Prime 1 rerelease if that happens. Not even worth debating.
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The lack of a new Switch has automatically made the OG Switch progressively less capable in the eyes of some people to ridiculous points.

Sonic Colors Ultimate probably didn't help, but also that's an entire other kind of shitshot development wise.

Mr Doggo said:
Prime HD should obviously be 60fps, if it wasnt that would mean it wouldnt be a perfect rework of the game.

If retro did get a little too ambitious tho; then let us chose between 30 and 60fps.

MP4 is another matter entirely.
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I'm pretty sure knowing Retro they're gonna aim to have 60 FPS and the best graphics they can squeeze out of the system at that framerate.

Doing THAT is being ambitious. A toggle is always a compromise. Ambition is going for both even if it's harder. Ambition isn't prioritizing just framerate OR graphics, it's an easy way out.
 
Yeah idk what's making people think a remaster of a game that was already 60FPS on the GameCube would be 30FPS on the Switch, when we had a Wii 30FPS game coming at 1080p60 in Skyward Sword HD.

Retro Studios is doing the work themselves in house, and literally all of their games are 60FPS. They absolutely can get the best of both worlds and aim for both a huge improvement in graphics while also having 60FPS.

Mercury Steam did it with Metroid Dread, EPD Tokyo did it with Super Mario Odyssey, EPD Tokyo did it with ARMS, Retro did this on Wii U with DKC Tropical Freeze.
 
Marce-chan said:
Yeah idk what's making people think a remaster of a game that was already 60FPS on the GameCube would be 30FPS on the Switch, when we had a Wii 30FPS game coming at 1080p60 in Skyward Sword HD.

Retro Studios is doing the work themselves in house, and literally all of their games are 60FPS. They absolutely can get the best of both worlds and aim for both a huge improvement in graphics while also having 60FPS.

Mercury Steam did it with Metroid Dread, EPD Tokyo did it with Super Mario Odyssey, EPD Tokyo did it with ARMS, Retro did this on Wii U with DKC Tropical Freeze.
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I think the fps depends of how they are making the game. If they are doing a full graphic remake with a lot of enchancements, details and post processing stuff, maybe they put the game in 30fps.
 
Ojoloco said:
I think the fps depends of how they are making the game. If they are doing a full graphic remake with a lot of enchancements, details and post processing stuff, maybe they put the game in 30fps.
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Alternatively, since they already have a game running at 60, they can measure performance and know exactly how much they can enhance per room to still do 60.
 
Tangerine_Cookie said:
The lack of a new Switch has automatically made the OG Switch progressively less capable in the eyes of some people to ridiculous points.

Sonic Colors Ultimate probably didn't help, but also that's an entire other kind of shitshot development wise.



I'm pretty sure knowing Retro they're gonna aim to have 60 FPS and the best graphics they can squeeze out of the system at that framerate.

Doing THAT is being ambitious. A toggle is always a compromise. Ambition is going for both even if it's harder. Ambition isn't prioritizing just framerate OR graphics, it's an easy way out.
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you cant do both tho, once you do 60fps you have to decrease some things. And the opposite is also true. Corruption is a looker at 60fps but that game would have looked even better at 30fps, would have mattered in the wii at 480p? probably not much.

Its not that retro cant do 60fps, more like that they could chose to compromise. About prime 4.
 
I’m hoping this ends up being the trilogy being re-released, the first one getting a lot more love with new assets and such whilst 2 and 3 get the Mario All Star level of treatment.
 
Quoted by: LiC
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ITSMILNER said:
I’m hoping this ends up being the trilogy being re-released, the first one getting a lot more love with new assets and such whilst 2 and 3 get the Mario All Star level of treatment.
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If they have the inclination to release Prime 2 and Prime 3, and they've already done the work to port the first game's engine, control scheme, etc., I don't see why they wouldn't do 2 and 3 in the same style as 1. They would have reduced development costs, but still salable at full price. A "Mario All Star" level of treatment would mean emulated versions at increased resolution, which would still require non-trivial work for the controls, and come out looking much worse in comparison to Prime 1, both graphically and in terms of value.
 
LiC said:
If they have the inclination to release Prime 2 and Prime 3, and they've already done the work to port the first game's engine, control scheme, etc., I don't see why they wouldn't do 2 and 3 in the same style as 1. They would have reduced development costs, but still salable at full price. A "Mario All Star" level of treatment would mean emulated versions at increased resolution, which would still require non-trivial work for the controls, and come out looking much worse in comparison to Prime 1, both graphically and in terms of value.
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Well I remember there being speculation that 2 & 3 may be outsourced to a studio to complete in a similar style to watch Retro do with 1 but not sure if there was anything to that. If that’s not the case, I could see a collection like Halo got where one game gets a meaty update (MP) whilst the others get the bare minimum to bring it up to the HD era (MP 2 and 3)
 
Ojoloco said:
I think the fps depends of how they are making the game. If they are doing a full graphic remake with a lot of enchancements, details and post processing stuff, maybe they put the game in 30fps.
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They can do all of that without having to cut the game's framerate.
Majora's Mask 3D and Ocarina of Time 3D are full graphics remake, and they ran better than the originals.
I don't see how much they'd have to change the game in order for it to get to a level it's more demanding than Switch games like Super Mario Odyssey while being in its core, skeleton, engine and world building a Game Cube maze based game.
Mr Doggo said:
you cant do both tho, once you do 60fps you have to decrease some things. And the opposite is also true. Corruption is a looker at 60fps but that game would have looked even better at 30fps, would have mattered in the wii at 480p? probably not much.

Its not that retro cant do 60fps, more like that they could chose to compromise. About prime 4.
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It is true for games built from the ground up for Switch(like Astral Chain looking better than Bayonetta 3, or Luigi's Mansion 3 looking better than Super Mario Odyssey) but I can't see a level of enhancement they'd get to a point they'd need to cut the framerate by half to achieve.
I mean, Super Mario Odyssey is the most ambitious world map wise a game can get without being full open world, has all modern technical graphical features, features a great geometry (Mario could be better tho), lighting and everything, and is still 60FPS.
They absolutely can put high quality textures, make very rounded models, make a new lighting engine and everything else you'd expect from a full asset remake, without needing to cut the framerate by half. For the game to reach a level of ambition it can't be running at 60FPS it would mean an actual reimagining like Samus Returns or Link's Awakening, not a 1:1 remake using the same skeleton. Like, making the environments bigger or whatever.
Everything else they can possibly do was already done at least once by a 60FPS Switch game, be it Super Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 3, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and so on.
 
ITSMILNER said:
Well I remember there being speculation that 2 & 3 may be outsourced to a studio to complete in a similar style to watch Retro do with 1 but not sure if there was anything to that. If that’s not the case, I could see a collection like Halo got where one game gets a meaty update (MP) whilst the others get the bare minimum to bring it up to the HD era (MP 2 and 3)
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They can totally bundle Prime 2 and 3 together if they're no more than resolution bumps.
But Prime 1 is a full asset remake, that took the development time necessary to make a brand new game. There's literally no way they don't release that one on its own.
They didn't bundle simpler remasters like Skyward Sword HD with already made remasters(WWHD and TPHD). They won't bundle a remaster that ambitious to two mediocre ones.
 
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Marce-chan said:
They can do all of that without having to cut the game's framerate.
Majora's Mask 3D and Ocarina of Time 3D are full graphics remake, and they ran better than the originals.
I don't see how much they'd have to change the game in order for it to get to a level it's more demanding than Switch games like Super Mario Odyssey while being in its core, skeleton, engine and world building a Game Cube maze based game.

It is true for games built from the ground up for Switch(like Astral Chain looking better than Bayonetta 3, or Luigi's Mansion 3 looking better than Super Mario Odyssey) but I can't see a level of enhancement they'd get to a point they'd need to cut the framerate by half to achieve.
I mean, Super Mario Odyssey is the most ambitious world map wise a game can get without being full open world, has all modern technical graphical features, features a great geometry (Mario could be better tho), lighting and everything, and is still 60FPS.
They absolutely can put high quality textures, make very rounded models, make a new lighting engine and everything else you'd expect from a full asset remake, without needing to cut the framerate by half. For the game to reach a level of ambition it can't be running at 60FPS it would mean an actual reimagining like Samus Returns or Link's Awakening, not a 1:1 remake using the same skeleton. Like, making the environments bigger or whatever.
Everything else they can possibly do was already done at least once by a 60FPS Switch game, be it Super Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 3, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and so on.
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i said that about mp4, not the remakester.
 
Mr Doggo said:
you cant do both tho, once you do 60fps you have to decrease some things. And the opposite is also true. Corruption is a looker at 60fps but that game would have looked even better at 30fps, would have mattered in the wii at 480p? probably not much.

Its not that retro cant do 60fps, more like that they could chose to compromise. About prime 4.
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Yes, as I said, not doing both would be a compromise. Glad we agree.
 
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Metroid Prime ran at 60fps on hardware like a generation and a half behind the Switch.
There are also plenty of games that manage to look good at 60fps on Switch; Mario Odyssey, FAST RMX, Rogue Company, Splatoon 2 and 3, Smash Bros Ultimate, Mario Kart 8, Metroid Dread...
Prime HD running at 60 on Switch shouldn't be a problem. Switch may not be a PS5, but it's massively more capable than the Gamecube.
There seems to be this narrative recently that Switch can't do 60fps, which is silly cos 60fps is a matter of priority; there are 60fps games on the NES.
 
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curl-6 said:
Metroid Prime ran at 60fps on hardware like a generation and a half behind the Switch.
There are also plenty of games that manage to look good at 60fps on Switch; Mario Odyssey, FAST RMX, Rogue Company, Splatoon 2 and 3, Smash Bros Ultimate, Mario Kart 8, Metroid Dread...
Prime HD running at 60 on Switch shouldn't be a problem. Switch may not be a PS5, but it's massively more capable than the Gamecube.
There seems to be this narrative recently that Switch can't do 60fps, which is silly cos 60fps is a matter of priority; there are 60fps games on the NES.
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Did you kno switch can't do more fps because switch 2 isn't out????
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
The Wii was by far the weakest console at the time, and Retro still opted for 60FPS on Prime 3. I imagine we'll see the same thing with both Prime remastered and Prime 4.
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thats not how it works i feel. Different Retro, different priorities.

It was never that retro cant do 60fps, more like they could have chosen to not do it. Perhaps too large of an areas coupled with some too expansive effects? IDK.

I feel like saying "oh but because past games were then mp4 will also be" assumes mp4 will be a very simple and iterative sequel, which based on the sized of the expansions retro had to do to get mp4 going makes it super unlikely imo. Even if you take that one comment about return to form, it certainly doesnt means we will be playing a 2002 game lol.
 
Zeal543 said:
Prime 3 had the privilege of being an SD game, I don't think 4 will be 60fps on switch. Prime remaster not being 60fps would be a hilarious mistep though
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Prime 3 could have also been 30fps if they desired. same with Prime 4 being 60fps on switch. resolution isn't a hard line in the sand, other things can be sacrificed
 
Weren't MP1-3 60fps to begin with? A remake on hardware dozens of times as capable failing to match that would be pretty bad.
 
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Honestly I would just prefer them to release the entire trilogy in 1080/60 fps and call it a day. Would kind of suck to get a remake of Metroid Prime 1 but never get to play 2 and 3 and then have 4 come out. I really want to play through the entire trilogy as I never completed them in the GameCube/Wii days.
 
Christo750 said:
Where did this discussion of 60FPS come from? Have Retro ever shipped a game that wasn't?
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Literally just from someone saying they feared the performance, giving no other reason.
 
Zeal543 said:
Prime 3 had the privilege of being an SD game, I don't think 4 will be 60fps on switch. Prime remaster not being 60fps would be a hilarious mistep though
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Tropical Freeze was not an SD game, and it runs at 60 on both Wii U and Switch. Sure, you could say a platformer has different priorities than a slower paced first person game, but then you have DKCR on 3DS which runs at 30. Retro's 3DS game (Mario Kart 7) also runs at 60, so it's not like 3DS can't prioritize framerate.

Mr Doggo said:
thats not how it works i feel. Different Retro, different priorities.

It was never that retro cant do 60fps, more like they could have chosen to not do it. Perhaps too large of an areas coupled with some too expansive effects? IDK.

I feel like saying "oh but because past games were then mp4 will also be" assumes mp4 will be a very simple and iterative sequel, which based on the sized of the expansions retro had to do to get mp4 going makes it super unlikely imo. Even if you take that one comment about return to form, it certainly doesnt means we will be playing a 2002 game lol.
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Of course they can choose to do whatever they want, and in all 6 of their games thus far they have chosen 60FPS, 7 if you count Switch version of TF. Just because there are a lot of new employees doesn't mean the studio culture/philosophy has changed. They absolutely could do 30 going forward, but there's nothing to suggest they would at this point.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
Tropical Freeze was not an SD game, and it runs at 60 on both Wii U and Switch. Sure, you could say a platformer has different priorities than a slower paced first person game, but then you have DKCR on 3DS which runs at 30. Retro's 3DS game (Mario Kart 7) also runs at 60, so it's not like 3DS can't prioritize framerate.
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TF is on a 2D plane with a fixed camera, it's easier to acheive 60fps in those circumstances. Same goes for dread
 
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60 FPS is a choice, if the developers choose to prioritize it then they will adjust the scope of the levels, visual features, etc. to hit that target on Switch hardware. And Retro has never chosen not to aim for 60...

Not to say things won't change this time around but without any info the case for 60 FPS is still stronger for now.
 
60 fps is the default until they don’t do it. It’s something they’ve done for all their games up to now with people coming in and out. It’s a studio thing.
 
I mean, Retro's last game was a 2D platformer, and Prime 1 was released 20 years ago, 60 fps is a must for those.

For Prime 4, not so sure, it really depends on the style of the game. May be it's like the previous ones, with close environments, fast combat, etc. so it needs 60 fps. However, if it's focused on exploration, with darker horror setting, open spaces, etc. 30 fps with a lot of detail would be enough.
We don't know if it's going to be the same thing or an evolution of the series, and that is an important factor for the framerate decision.
 
I can see Prime 4 being a cross gen title with the Switch 1 version getting some Bowser's Fury level compromises like 30 FPS in handheld mode. I don't expect it to be 'bad', it just depends on the scope they're targeting and what they feel is necessary. But I am hoping by then there is a maxed out Switch 2 definitive version.
 
Serif said:
I can see Prime 4 being a cross gen title with the Switch 1 version getting some Bowser's Fury level compromises like 30 FPS in handheld mode. I don't expect it to be 'bad', it just depends on the scope they're targeting and what they feel is necessary. But I am hoping by then there is a maxed out Switch 2 definitive version.
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That's not going to happen for a game that was announced in 2017 (and restarted in 2018) for the current Switch.
 
stodesign12 said:
I mean, Retro's last game was a 2D platformer, and Prime 1 was released 20 years ago, 60 fps is a must for those.

For Prime 4, not so sure, it really depends on the style of the game. May be it's like the previous ones, with close environments, fast combat, etc. so it needs 60 fps. However, if it's focused on exploration, with darker horror setting, open spaces, etc. 30 fps with a lot of detail would be enough.
We don't know if it's going to be the same thing or an evolution of the series, and that is an important factor for the framerate decision.
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πŸ€”

What if both. What if the more scenic corridors and explorey bits run at 30, but rooms with combat run at 60.

This is something that can be done. It would be weird, but it's technically possible.
 
LiC said:
That's not going to happen for a game that was announced in 2017 (and restarted in 2018) for the current Switch.
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Wasn't the restart in 2019? Either way 30 fps handheld isn't the only possible concession, there might be something like Dread's 30 fps for cutscenes. But I see this as a worse case scenario.
 
MP will not be an big open world game as zelda, or even have as vast zones as Mario (i assume), so im confident that 60fps will be what they are aiming for. i expect it to be closer to the zones in Doom 2016.
im 90% confident that they will aim for
900p@60fps for MP4
1080@60fps for MP1

only 80% confident take:
and they will have made the textures for 4 in higher fidelity in mind to then have either a patch or a 4k port later on. it is a first party game that can function as a "realistic graphics" showcase for mature audiences, so nintendo would have had somewhat of a plan when moving to retro to give them the wink / hint to to prepare for higher resolutions.
the models... i think will work fine for the most part in lower and higher resolution, so i expect there not to be to much change, but an increased abundance of particle effects, foliage, etc.
 
LiC said:
That's not going to happen for a game that was announced in 2017 (and restarted in 2018) for the current Switch.
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I would be pretty surprised if this wasn't an open world game as open-world or multiplayer are almost always the best option when you're trying to expand the sales of your franchise and there's been no indication of multiplayer. No one at Retro has any multiplayer programming experience (they had some multiplayer programmers in the past, but they all left after Prime 4 was announced and the game before Prime 4 cancelled).

And almost no open world Switch games run at 60.
 
Serif said:
Wasn't the restart in 2019? Either way 30 fps handheld isn't the only possible concession, there might be something like Dread's 30 fps for cutscenes. But I see this as a worse case scenario.
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It was announced on January 25 2019, so the evaluation and process of scrapping the first project and switching to Retro surely must have happened in 2018. The important point is that this all happened within less than 2 years of the system's launch, and there would be nothing at all on anyone's mind to target the project at a future hardware upgrade that hadn't even begun development yet.
 
LiC said:
It was announced on January 25 2019, so the evaluation and process of scrapping the first project and switching to Retro surely must have happened in 2018. The important point is that this all happened within less than 2 years of the system's launch, and there would be nothing at all on anyone's mind to target the project at a future hardware upgrade that hadn't even begun development yet.
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Sure. I wasn't implying a connection between a cross gen upgrade and concessions on current hardware, the latter would happen regardless if Prime 4 releases cross gen or not. Just as TotK was always a Switch 1 title intended to release earlier, a cross-gen port would be a nice to have and maxed out from the Switch version.
 
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