StarTopic Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door |ST| A Classic Re_rinted!

[WestEgg]

Spoiler

It's dumb that they made hitting Whacka required for 100%. The whole point of it in the previous games was that it's an optional benefit, but taking advantage of it is immoral in-universe. Having the gold badge locked behind it makes it not optional in the same way. It would make a lot more sense if it was still optional, but hitting Whacka made the Pit harder by adding him as another boss. Maybe the more times you hit him, the more difficult he'd be. And if you didn't hit him, you could get the Tattle from Frankly's trash.

Spoiler

I agree. I’ve always avoided hitting Whacka because the game goes so far out of its way to show it’s bad, optional, and entirely driven by the player. Heck, he’s even friendly and pointed out to be an endangered species.

 

[Lucifer]

I like Bleck and Dimentio a lot, they're right up there in my estimations.

One of the bigger disappointments with playing Super Mario RPG for the first time through the remake was the realisation that Smithy was a complete non-entity as a villain.

The remake is the first time I've played that game and I was kind of shocked at how big the adventure feels in the beginning, only for it to end up being a silly weapon factory boss with no layers to it at all.

 

[AstroOhHey]

Fawful and Cackletta are still the peak when it comes to Mario RPG villains imo.

Fawful is the only unique Mario & Luigi series villain I can even really remember, so while that statement isn't exactly wrong it also sorta highlights to me SMRPG/Paper Mario's cast of bad guys (and I don't even like Olly) stood out a lot better.

 

[Decoyman]

Smithy is pretty low down on the totem pole of compelling Mario RPG villains but he works; I like the juxtaposition of him presenting himself as a noble and dignified blacksmith only for the twist to show that he's basically this super immature freak who's machinations work in spite of himself. We spend all game immersing ourselves into Mario's lovely world and here the villain is just revealed to be that one dude you knew in school who thought Mario wasn't cool or hardcore enough and needed guns. I think it also helps that if you played the game as a kid his true form was kind of nightmare fuel. I didn't play the game as a kid but I remember looking at sprite sheets and videos thinking he was mad intimidating. For a first stab at making a villain I give him a pass.

TTYD's main villains are kinda weak. Grodus is an absolute chump, and the final boss is... okay, but it's mostly memorable for what they do in the first phase, so spectacle more than substance. Super Paper Mario's villains I think are fine but I just really dislike that game's story too much for me to feel like they're tangible highlights rising above. Dimentio is probably one of the easier villains to hate in these games but I don't know if it's a "love to hate" type case where it's for the right reasons. I might just be incensed because the way the game treats Luigi will never not be an extremely frustrating case of this game getting too up its own ass about story taking precedent over game play, all for "chosen ones"-type lore that feels unnecessarily incompatible with what could've sufficed being a basic Romeo & Juliet deconstruction.

I think the original Mario & Luigi trilogy had the best villains. Those games really knew how to make a persistent impression where the villains either felt like a threat, went through a whole villainous journey of their own, or served to elevate an already tight narrative. Bowser in PM64 I'd rank up there too, arguably the best incarnation of the character.

 

[Weiss]

I don't know why Smithy's final boss room is a red hellscape made entirely of copies of his own severed head, but it makes for a cool visual.

 

[Mekanos]

I actually like Grodus as a villain who feels out of place in a Mario game; he's very serious and straight-laced and that contrast works. The scene in the Shadow Palace where he reveals the truth about his plans to Mario was always extremely memorable to me, as a kid I even had a save file of that scene so I could replay it anytime I want. He obviously doesn't have much depth but I would still say he left a strong impression. Same with Smithy.

Fawful in Bowser's Inside Story is fine but I also sorta feel like the game missed an opportunity to link him more overtly to Superstar Saga's story. His presence and role doesn't really have any relation to that game and none of the characters react to him, having met him before. As a character he's mostly propped up by the localization (which I don't think holds up as well nowadays).

 

[ILovethegameAC]

I beat the game and overall enjoyed the game quite a bit, one of the most charming games in the mario series and the battle system was great too, however I'd say that I found the game to be truly fantastic only when it's focused on being an rpg with battles and exploration in mostly equal parts, like in the last few hours especially, however I find that the game tries to be too experimental way too often and I personally found it to be far less enjoyable when doing so, like the Pikmin chapter or the train investigation bit or all the Peach and Bowser intermissions, or even the pre chapters stuff like the mafia Pianta stuff, they definitely give the game charm but they are often not that fun imo, and I mostly play light rpg's like these for the fun. Plus I guess this was my fault but I expected more for the story, which is enjoyable but for how some Paper Mario fans were talking about it sounded like it was going to be super deep and complex but it really isn't.

Overall is solid, but I definitely like Mario RPG and Super Star Saga more because they are more consistently fun. Gotta play the first Paper Mario to to see if I'm one of the weirdos who prefers it over TTYD.

 

[kirbyfan407]

I beat the game and overall enjoyed the game quite a bit, one of the most charming games in the mario series and the battle system was great too, however I'd say that I found the game to be truly fantastic only when it's focused on being an rpg with battles and exploration in mostly equal parts, like in the last few hours especially, however I find that the game tries to be too experimental way too often and I personally found it to be far less enjoyable when doing so, like the Pikmin chapter or the train investigation bit or all the Peach and Bowser intermissions, or even the pre chapters stuff like the mafia Pianta stuff, they definitely give the game charm but they are often not that fun imo, and I mostly play light rpg's like these for the fun. Plus I guess this was my fault but I expected more for the story, which is enjoyable but for how some Paper Mario fans were talking about it sounded like it was going to be super deep and complex but it really isn't.

Overall is solid, but I definitely like Mario RPG and Super Star Saga more because they are more consistently fun. Gotta play the first Paper Mario to to see if I'm one of the weirdos who prefers it over TTYD.

I enjoyed my time with the game, but I'm with you that some aspects of it weren't as impressive as I expected based on the game's reputation. I'm someone who likes and seeks out adventure and narrative-heavy games to play, yet I have to admit that I got a little bored with some of the preamble and side story stuff.

What exceeded my expectations was the RPG-ness of the game, as I realized this game has a surprising level of depth with its badge, partner, and battle system.

I'm really glad I played it. It won't end up an all-time favorite, though. I may have preferred Super Mario RPG over TTYD, both of which I played for the first time via their Switch remakes. I remember really liking some of the earlier M&L games, and your mention of preferring Superstar Saga makes me curious how I'd feel about them now compared to TTYD.

 

[Ricimer]

I beat the game and overall enjoyed the game quite a bit, one of the most charming games in the mario series and the battle system was great too, however I'd say that I found the game to be truly fantastic only when it's focused on being an rpg with battles and exploration in mostly equal parts, like in the last few hours especially, however I find that the game tries to be too experimental way too often and I personally found it to be far less enjoyable when doing so, like the Pikmin chapter or the train investigation bit or all the Peach and Bowser intermissions, or even the pre chapters stuff like the mafia Pianta stuff, they definitely give the game charm but they are often not that fun imo, and I mostly play light rpg's like these for the fun. Plus I guess this was my fault but I expected more for the story, which is enjoyable but for how some Paper Mario fans were talking about it sounded like it was going to be super deep and complex but it really isn't.

Overall is solid, but I definitely like Mario RPG and Super Star Saga more because they are more consistently fun. Gotta play the first Paper Mario to to see if I'm one of the weirdos who prefers it over TTYD.

Yeah I think the classic fanbase's calls for wanting "Good stories/characters again" over the last decade can skew expectations a bit. PM64 and TTYD don't have bad stories or anything, but they still fairly simple. They're plots one would expect from a Super Mario RPG series, not Xenogears or Final Fantasy Tactics-tier writing.

It's moreso the unique scenarios, character designs, humorous dialog, and world design aesthetics that really elevated the non-gameplay side of the series. Not in-depth character development and complicated stories. Heck PM64 has the most generic "Bowser kidnapped Peach" plot setup and "grasslands-desert-water-jungle-ice-lava" world theming, yet still manages to do both memorably because of aforementioned factors.