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Discussion Nintendo is Bad at Re-Investing its Money in Videogames

This all seems less like Nintendo isn't investing in games, as that they're not investing in the way Truno would prefer.
Truno said:
Their controller build quality is plagued by a myriad of problems whilst offering less features than their competition.
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Joy-Cons have issues, but it's because of all the stuff it's doing that the others aren't. They don't have everything doubled and in tiny form factor. Shit, Xbox has yet to bring gyro to the table.
Nintendo's output is considerably slow. 6 years for TotK, 3D and 2D Mario/Zelda being MiA, no original DK game on Switch, decade old Mario Kart, etc.
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This is really a thing I like about them. As much crap as Nintendo gets for releasing the same things from system to system, they're one of the few major publishers willing to let a big hit take a rest rather than forcing it to release every year or two until drained to nothing.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
Your argument boils down to that Nintendo should be perfect & be able to satisfy every customer of theirs with nonstop output at a rate that would eclipse every conceivable measure in the history of the video game industry; in acceptable timeframes so that certain fans don’t either feel disappointed or unacceptable. To do so Nintendo would need to be about triple their size which at that point becomes really unwieldy as we see with Ubisoft.

Your evidence only really points to the fact that Nintendo has ebbs & flows for their non-core ips dependent on resources, sales, and/or higher management batting for it. This doesn’t account for how the industry has changed with HD dev nor other issues like real world crises or resources being used elsewhere.
  • Nintendo has the platformer market covered with about four ips currently each targeting different demographics. There is no need to create a new ip currently in this department
  • Define “people” because it is the dozens of us gif currently. New ips in action/adventure are resource hungry & risky. Check Forspoken about a new ip that crashed into the ground. If you have most of the teams who are capable of making these tied up in Zelda/Metroid/Mario then there is nowhere else except outsourcing.
  • Why would Nintendo in any way, shape, or form commit & comment on about a rumored DK game? There is no similarity to Metroid here since that game was used as a carrot after Samus Returns was announced. Yes DK has its fans but, much like with SF & 2D Mario, have to wait for their entires to come out. And, no a DK that has not started dev is not an issue of their output considering the devs who are in charge of the ip are currently busy. There are plenty of reasons why a game may not come out that has been pointed out before in this thread.
I get where your coming from but unfortunately this is the reality of the current gaming landscape. Nintendo cannot change that & with games having longer dev tails it makes it harder. Hiring more people isn’t a silver bullet nor is acquiring/opening more studios worldwide. If you want Nintendo to make more video games then the movies & theme parks will allow to do so, since they are not gambling on on thing only into the uncertain future.
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I think there's a middle ground between "perfect/satisfying every single customer at a nonstop rate" and "no new game or mention of a new game for 9 years," to use DK as one example. And besides DK there's also SF (7 years), F-Zero which it seems like people have just kind of accepted is a dead franchise at this point, and I'd say 2D Mario (11 years) also because it offers a pretty different experience from 3D Mario. At least, obstacle course style platforming, which Nintendo hasn't done much of since 3D World.

I can kind of see what you're saying with the "platformer market covered" thing but I disagree, like I mentioned above without DK I don't think they have obstacle-course style platforming covered at all right now. Kirby is honestly more of an action/platformer hybrid, it's also known for being pretty easy. Yoshi, also, isn't as much about precision platforming and is also known for being pretty easy. Mario is the only one that really has some of that obstacle course/precision platforming stuff in its gameplay, but that's mostly in the 2D games and 3D World which were released a while ago, and even those are pretty easy compared to stuff like DK and Crash. Odyssey kind of targets a totally different audience from people who like level based/obstacle course style platforming, it's more about exploring the world and collecting things.

"Define people" for what, DK or new IPs? I mean for what it's worth, DK sells a lot. As for new IPs, idk, in this thread there's at least me, the OP, and somebody else I saw who'd like some, I'm sure if you made a thread about "would you want new IPs" there'd be a bunch of people who would.

Like you said, MP4 was used as a carrot, they just did it to give something for fans who'd been waiting. If a DK has been in development, I really see no reason for them not to do something like that. And if there hasn't been a DK in development at all for nine years, then yeah I feel like it's an issue with either their output or them simply not caring. If Retro's been busy with MP4, I'm sure there could be ways for a company as big enough as Nintendo to find another studio that would be interested in making a new DK game. And if not, there are ways to hire people who would be interested, that's what this thread is about, could all this money they're making be going towards more video games.

I mean yeah, I get there are realities and I'm not saying Nintendo should work on stuff if they literally don't have the money/resources. But they're such a big company, I don't feel like this is an issue of not having enough money/resources. I mean the Switch is like the third best selling console of all time right now and sales are growing, they have multiple huge selling Switch games, not to mention all the money they make with merch etc. Who knows I could be wrong though, I have no idea the real reason what's taking so long for a new DK for example.
 
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codacious said:
I mean yeah, I get there are realities and I'm not saying Nintendo should work on stuff if they literally don't have the money/resources. But they're such a big company, I don't feel like this is an issue of not having enough money/resources. I mean the Switch is like the third best selling console of all time right now and sales are growing, they have multiple huge selling Switch games, not to mention all the money they make with merch etc. Who knows I could be wrong though, I have no idea the real reason what's taking so long for a new DK for example.
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Switch being as successful as it has & Nintendo being as big as they are do not magically mean infinite resource allocation. They simply do not have enough manpower/time to develop all the things people want them to do: new ips, new entires in core ips, new entries in old ips. They would have to expand massively & quickly over the next three years to even attempt that. Throwing money at a problem isn’t a silver bullet as we have seen time & again.

Nintendo is not going to change their modus operandi because some fans are displeased they can’t get the game they want faster. They have tried announcing a game early to various meh results. Suffice to say they are not a fan of the strategy. Exceptions do exist for certain large reliable franchises.

The wider market will buy these games, provided they are good & fits the market, when the game is announced & released. They will not have participated in discussions like these which are largely driven by enthusiasts. Thus DK being absent is not a concern in the large scheme of things with those being affected are ones who find it unacceptable. If you ask this thread about new ip it would skew in very particular directions which stuff like Ring Fit being eschewed because it’s not the type of game they like.

It isn’t an indictment on their output since the studio has been busy since DKTF. Mass hiring isn’t a silver bullet & contracting it out to another studio isn’t always a guarantee. For all intents Nintendo has a firm control over the platformer market. DK would just be there to sell to a market they are dominating. Thus they market is largely covered & rushing out a DK isn’t necessary.
 
Truno said:
It seems like Nintendo is constantly breaking sales records. Nintendo related headlines such as, "Most X sold in X amount of time", or, "Best selling X of all time" are becoming increasingly common. For example, Splatoon 3 breaking the record for the biggest software launch in Japan's history, only to be broken by Pokemon Scarlet and Violet's launch a couple of weeks later is insanity, especially for a console that is currently in its 6th year.

Nintendo has used this unparalleled success to their advantage by leveraging their IPs in investments of other avenues, such as films and theme parks. I fully expect both of these, especially the Super Mario Bros movie, to be huge hits. However, it sometimes feels as if their videogame related efforts are neglected from such investments.

What do I mean? Well:
  • Nintendo applies the least amount of effort in accessibility options.
  • They have the worst online infrastructure of any console manufacturer.
  • Their controller build quality is plagued by a myriad of problems whilst offering less features than their competition.
  • The amount of developers that are linked to their software releases pales in comparison to their competition.
  • Releases with the bare-minimum amount of acceptable content for a few of their franchises constrained by small budgets and tight dev-schedules
  • Nintendo's output is considerably slow. 6 years for TotK, 3D and 2D Mario/Zelda being MiA, no original DK game on Switch, decade old Mario Kart, etc.
  • Lackluster post-launch support for their releases (ACNH, Sports games, Mario Maker 2, etc).
  • Lack of new IPs
Nintendo has mentioned that they're investing a considerable amount of money into their online offerings, nearly $900 million into their software production pipeline, and they've purchased land to expand their EPD offices, although their new building will be completed by 2027! However, it really doesn't feel as if much has changed since the Switch's launch.

Is this a case of having to huff copium and assume that their next console will improve these issues? Perhaps the reason why they are seeing unparalleled success is because of the aforementioned issues that I have with the company? Or perhaps it's not as simple as I'm portraying the situation to be...

What do you think?
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This is stupid straight up.

Money takes tiem to reinvest, for minor things we are seeing improvement, but modern games (unless they are Pokémon) take 4-6 years to make, the money they are making now won’t show itself for a decade at least. It’s extremely entitled or you are ignorant of how game dev works.

Pumping money into a project doesn’t mean it gets done faster.

Zelda games and 3d Mario games taking more than half a decade is a good sign. Modern games take much longer to make than games form previous generations. And Nintendo learned this when the wii u came out, they were not able to make many games for it at all.

And during the switch era they have been hiring relentlessly and making new partnerships. What we are seeing now is the money they made in 2017. Peak year switch money is still years away from showing itself and when it does it will be on the switch two. And due to the insane success of the switch the switch 2 will have a lot more games, quality of life changes and better online then the original switch has had.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
Switch being as successful as it has & Nintendo being as big as they are do not magically mean infinite resource allocation. They simply do not have enough manpower/time to develop all the things people want them to do: new ips, new entires in core ips, new entries in old ips. They would have to expand massively & quickly over the next three years to even attempt that. Throwing money at a problem isn’t a silver bullet as we have seen time & again.

Nintendo is not going to change their modus operandi because some fans are displeased they can’t get the game they want faster. They have tried announcing a game early to various meh results. Suffice to say they are not a fan of the strategy. Exceptions do exist for certain large reliable franchises.

The wider market will buy these games, provided they are good & fits the market, when the game is announced & released. They will not have participated in discussions like these which are largely driven by enthusiasts. Thus DK being absent is not a concern in the large scheme of things with those being affected are ones who find it unacceptable. If you ask this thread about new ip it would skew in very particular directions which stuff like Ring Fit being eschewed because it’s not the type of game they like.

It isn’t an indictment on their output since the studio has been busy since DKTF. Mass hiring isn’t a silver bullet & contracting it out to another studio isn’t always a guarantee. For all intents Nintendo has a firm control over the platformer market. DK would just be there to sell to a market they are dominating. Thus they market is largely covered & rushing out a DK isn’t necessary.
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From a business perspective, it makes sense that they have platformers “covered.” I do think though that DK is bigger than just being something that only enthusiasts care about. DKCR sold like almost 7 million which, to put things into perspective a bit, is more than almost all Zelda games besides OoT, TP and BotW. DKTF sold 2 million on Wii U, which for that console is actually pretty impressive, but then another 4 million just from its Switch port.

I don’t like to talk too much about DK vs Metroid since it usually just leads to arguments, but in this case I feel like it’s relevant to bring up. If you’re talking only what makes sense for business, and that Nintendo doesn’t care about enthusiasts on forums, then prioritizing Metroid over DK just doesn’t make any sense, sales wise. This is just to say that I don’t think Nintendo only cares about sales/what would be best for business. I think they take in feedback from people online too.

I guess I can get what you’re saying from a market perspective, since Metroid appeals to a much different market than DK. But, Nintendo has always had a lot of platformers, and DK has consistently been one of their better selling ones. So if you’re talking business wise I think DK does have a lot of value.
 
codacious said:
From a business perspective, it makes sense that they have platformers “covered.” I do think though that DK is bigger than just being something that only enthusiasts care about. DKCR sold like almost 7 million which, to put things into perspective a bit, is more than almost all Zelda games besides OoT, TP and BotW. DKTF sold 2 million on Wii U, which for that console is actually pretty impressive, but then another 4 million just from its Switch port.

I don’t like to talk too much about DK vs Metroid since it usually just leads to arguments, but in this case I feel like it’s relevant to bring up. If you’re talking only what makes sense for business, and that Nintendo doesn’t care about enthusiasts on forums, then prioritizing Metroid over DK just doesn’t make any sense, sales wise. This is just to say that I don’t think Nintendo only cares about sales/what would be best for business. I think they take in feedback from people online too.

I guess I can get what you’re saying from a market perspective, since Metroid appeals to a much different market than DK. But, Nintendo has always had a lot of platformers, and DK has consistently been one of their better selling ones. So if you’re talking business wise I think DK does have a lot of value.
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Your completely missing my point in your first paragraph. I already said that the wider market will buy into a DK game because it is very popular ip. Only enthusiasts like you or me care about discussing the minutiae of whether it being absent for 9yrs is fine. This why I asked about defining people since the most discourse comes from enthusiasts with very little wider market participation in this subject. It’s covered in the sense that all DK would be doing at any point is just showing Nintendo’s dominance in the platformer market even if it ends up north of 10mil. Much like Mario Kart continues to show Nintendo’s dominance in the Kart Racer/Racing genre.

Again your missing the point. it Is not about DK vs Metroid nor entirely about sales. However, Nintendo is not going to change their modus operandi, which is attempting to announce games close to release, for enthusiasts on the internet who are anxious about a DK game that has only been rumoured. The difference here is that the Metroid fanbase, whether you find it justifiable or not, became increasingly rabid & loud over three 3DS games. The entire impetus for the MP4 announcement was to try & soother over those feelings. I argue it didn’t work out because they had to restart development. Nintendo has largely moved away from such with certain exceptions. It’s not even what’s best for sales & they do listen to fan feedback but it’s highly variable dependent of a few factors.

DK has value I’ve never argued it didn’t. What I’m arguing is that there is no need to rush this out the door. DK is a safe franchise with the only things stopping it being a busy dev. It’s a matter of when & not if.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
Your completely missing my point in your first paragraph. I already said that the wider market will buy into a DK game because it is very popular ip. Only enthusiasts like you or me care about discussing the minutiae of whether it being absent for 9yrs is fine. This why I asked about defining people since the most discourse comes from enthusiasts with very little wider market participation in this subject. It’s covered in the sense that all DK would be doing at any point is just showing Nintendo’s dominance in the platformer market even if it ends up north of 10mil. Much like Mario Kart continues to show Nintendo’s dominance in the Kart Racer/Racing genre.

Again your missing the point. it Is not about DK vs Metroid nor entirely about sales. However, Nintendo is not going to change their modus operandi, which is attempting to announce games close to release, for enthusiasts on the internet who are anxious about a DK game that has only been rumoured. The difference here is that the Metroid fanbase, whether you find it justifiable or not, became increasingly rabid & loud over three 3DS games. The entire impetus for the MP4 announcement was to try & soother over those feelings. I argue it didn’t work out because they had to restart development. Nintendo has largely moved away from such with certain exceptions. It’s not even what’s best for sales & they do listen to fan feedback but it’s highly variable dependent of a few factors.

DK has value I’ve never argued it didn’t. What I’m arguing is that there is no need to rush this out the door. DK is a safe franchise with the only things stopping it being a busy dev. It’s a matter of when & not if.
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Well you're right I think I misunderstood some of what you're saying. I thought you were saying only enthusiasts online want a new DK game, but you were actually saying the opposite.

I guess I'd agree there isn't a "need" in the way that nothing's really "needed" when it comes to video games, just wanted. I do feel though like since the DK fanbase isn't very vocal, Nintendo isn't really realizing that there are people who do really want a new DK game, so they aren't really caring as much about giving anything to DK fans which is unfortunate.
 
codacious said:
Well you're right I think I misunderstood some of what you're saying. I thought you were saying only enthusiasts online want a new DK game, but you were actually saying the opposite.

I guess I'd agree there isn't a "need" in the way that nothing's really "needed" when it comes to video games, just wanted. I do feel though like since the DK fanbase isn't very vocal, Nintendo isn't really realizing that there are people who do really want a new DK game, so they aren't really caring as much about giving anything to DK fans which is unfortunate.
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The vocal DK fanbase is being heard to a degree but they have DK’s sales data. And, that sales data is pretty good so they’ll get to it when the schedule clears up a little more to devote resources into making a game in that franchise.
 
I wouldn't called them "bad" at investing their money when they are making a lot of move, like setting up a new company to handle the Nintendo Account system, and building their biggest development office that planned to finish in 2027.

They prefer to make long-term investments and it's gonna be a long time before we see any results from that.

Just gonna post this from their six month corporate management policy briefing from November last year.

SmartSelect_20230217_085127_Samsung_Notes.jpg
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
This all seems less like Nintendo isn't investing in games, as that they're not investing in the way Truno would prefer.

Joy-Cons have issues, but it's because of all the stuff it's doing that the others aren't. They don't have everything doubled and in tiny form factor. Shit, Xbox has yet to bring gyro to the table.

This is really a thing I like about them. As much crap as Nintendo gets for releasing the same things from system to system, they're one of the few major publishers willing to let a big hit take a rest rather than forcing it to release every year or two until drained to nothing.
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I'm confused about your joy con point. Are you saying they have issues because of all the stuff it's doing? Can you elaborate just a bit haha?
 
It's very hilarious that you say this, just as Nintendo has announced massive expansions to EPD, including acquisitions of Next Level Games and SRD. As a company who has historically prioritized internal development, Nintendo's actually walking the harder path compared to Sony and Microsoft's acquisition-focused approaches, in hopes for a greater return.

MisterSpo said:
Plus, you know, Mario Kart Tour and Mario Kart Live.
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Live was handled by EPD Group 2 and Group 4. Group 9 had nothing to do with it.
 
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Hocot8 said:
I'm confused about your joy con point. Are you saying they have issues because of all the stuff it's doing? Can you elaborate just a bit haha?
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He's saying the form factor and packing in multiple features contributes to why joy-cons are more likely to experience issues, due to the miniaturization needing design compromises.

For example, Nintendo's sticks place the potentiometer at the bottom instead of the sides for a more compact design. Excessive friction against the top of the controller causes the material of the potentiometer below it to weaken contact over time, resulting in incorrect movement readings. It's why one of the DIY solutions (and one of the ways Nintendo has been trying to address it) has been tacking a small bit of material to the back of the joystick to give additional pressure.

So while Nintendo put a lot of engineering work into making the joy con as small as they are - being essentially the vertical length and thickness of the bottom half of a n3DS XL while fitting the entire modern control scheme - it also screwed them over in this particular instance.
 
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