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Discussion My biggest request for Switch 2.0: Ergonomics!

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correojon

Custom title
Reading the thread about the Legion Go I've noticed that one thing that is never discussed when talking about new consoles is ergonomics. Everyone focuses on power, resolution, loading times and stuff like that...but no one requests that the controllers are comfortable to hold. Nintendo has a history of sacrificing ergonomics for their handhelds: Both the DS and 3DS were really uncomfortable to hold for longer periods of time, with their flat surfaces and square shapes. You can excuse that by saying that they were trying to make them as compact as possible to be easier to carry around, but the Switch is big enough that it won't fit into any pockets: You're always going to need some sort of bag to safely carry it around. So at this point: Why use flat joycons? Why not give them a shape that makes them gentler to hold? The WiiU gamepad was a handheld to be used only at home and it was the most comfortable controller I've ever used. Really, it had a small protuberance on the back that made my hands fit like a glove, but the Switch went back to 100% flat handheld design.

I understand that joycons can also be held horizontally, but instead of just making them flat maybe they could've tried something else. Making them 100% flat looks like they gave up before even trying.

At this point I never use "vanilla" joycons: I always use a handle grip when playing in handheld or the pro controller when playing on the TV.

What do you say Era? Did you feel like the DS and 3DS were comfy to use? Do you use vanilla joycons or have bought some sort of handle grip or 3rd party joycons with better shape?

What do you expect for Switch 2?
 
I knew this had to do with the Legion Go. At least superficially, its joycons are what the actualy Joycons were supposed to be.

I agree with you. At the very least give them some volume. As much as i love my switch, i miss the Wii U Gamepad ergonomics SO MUCH.
 
You're not wrong. Even for my baby hands, the 3DS was giving me cramps. The Wii U on the other hand, fantastic to hold, I'd use it for Splatoon 3 in a heartbeat if it was possible.
 
While not my biggest wish for next gen Switch - it's something they definitely should look at.
 
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I'll be ok if Hori keeps making replacements/ Split Pads. At a fraction of the price they are 100x better than the official junk.
 
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The ergonomics of the Switch literally never bothered me, usually weight is more of a concern to me. If the next system has a bigger profile than the current Switch I hope they still release a handheld-only system like the Lite eventually.
 
Sorry, as a person with very small hands I'm against grips. Controller with grips have been super uncomfortable for me, especially getting used to non-grip ones like SNES or Mega Drive.

Maybe Nintendo could consider creating official grip attachments?
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
The ergonomics of the Switch literally never bothered me,
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Same here. I quicky realised that the joycon design had to suit 3 purposes: on the machine, in the comfort grip, and standalone single devices. Most alternatives I've seen to the joycons seem to come from the perspective that the joycons are 100% attached to the machine at all time.

I just like the machine to be light you know. I found the Lite really nice to cosy up with on a sofa, never fatiguing to hold.
 
I'd rather they keep them flat for easy storage. If you want more bulk in that direction for ease of use, get a gripcase or third party joycons.

If they design them this way, you have the option. If they do the opposite and make them bulky, it's tough shit, everyone gets what they get.

There's also the separate problem where joycons need to be detachable and useable when rotated 90 degrees, which would be a real challenge to design a shape that works in both configurations that isn't just flat
 
9-Volt said:
Sorry, as a person with very small hands I'm against grips. Controller with grips have been super uncomfortable for me, especially getting used to non-grip ones like SNES or Mega Drive.

Maybe Nintendo could consider creating official grip attachments?
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It exists.
Nintendo_Joy_Con_battery_grip_accessory.jpg


It has three issues, though:

  1. It's too expensive for what it is.
  2. It's a battery extender and it uses batteries, for some reason
  3. Because of its desing, you have to detatch it if you want to attach the joycons to the main unit, wich make them useless for handheld play.
It was released with Arms and had the clear intention to improve the joycons' ergonomy when playing with them detached, but they're half baked at best. They're clearly hard to sell, but sales are ridiculous, i've never seen them below 25 €

A friend of mine had individual silicone grips for each joycon that gave them Nunchuck/Wii U Gamepad style ergonomy, but i haven't been able to find them anywhere in the last 6 years. On the other side, there are TOO MANY horizontal grips.
 
The Switch Lite is underrated for how much more pleasant it is to hold and use. Being smaller and lighter helps a lot of course, but they smoothed and rounded out the whole shape of it, on top of better shoulder buttons and d-pad. could they not even attempt to incorporate some of that into an upgraded set of joycons or something? And general build quality contributes to usability too, I can't stand prolonged handheld play when I start to feel the whole system creak, slightly buckle at its seams, and loose its grip on the joycon connections at random times, leading to me having to adjust my grip and shift its weight often.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
I'd rather they keep them flat for easy storage. If you want more bulk in that direction for ease of use, get a gripcase or third party joycons.

If they design them this way, you have the option. If they do the opposite and make them bulky, it's tough shit, everyone gets what they get.
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Then, why not make them bulky? If people want flat joycons they can buy third party flat joycons, they have options like you say. I don't understand why your argument may work in one direction but not in the opposite one.
 
correojon said:
Then, why not make them bulky? If people want flat joycons they can buy third party flat joycons, they have options like you say. I don't understand why your argument may work in one direction but not in the opposite one.
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I mean, for a start you cut out part of my post about the necessity of being able to rotate the joycons to be used, which is incompatible with being anything other than flat.

Second, saying everyone should use third party joycons is completely ignoring that I said a grip as the first option, which, as you'll note is something literally included with every switch sold for use with the joycons more like a classic controller should you so want. You can make a product bigger with a cheap plastic grip, you can't make it smaller.

From a financial sense, It's also far, far cheaper to get a plain old plastic grip for the whole switch unit while undocked (sub 6 euro on eBay, apparently, including delivery) than the price of replacing the joy cons, with third party options or otherwise.

And then there's the obvious elephant in the room. Joycons are a great shape for children to use. Making them bigger and bulkier would make it worse for them.
 
The Switch itself having to work with multiple playstyles compared to most other handhelds where it's just for playing games anywhere mean it had to be able to fit many situations while not being amazing at any of them. I think it's a worthy trade-off since the surface is flat and tiny, you can just get third-party parts that make them bigger or have a grip to fit your need, Can't do that if the Joy-Con already have a grip, can you? (in fact, imagine playing games using that sideway, ugh)

Also your mileage may wary, but as someone who own Switch Lite. I never found the lack of a grip to be a problem. With its smaller size, the grip might actually get in the way of my giant hand. Maybe the smaller a handheld system get, the less beneficial to have a grip? I dunno, just my personal thoughts on the matter.

As a side note, I got to hold the Joy-Con without the strap recently, and to the surprise of myself, I find it quite uncomfortable lol. Maybe because since it was a good few years and my hand grew a bit since then, but I find it hard to control it well in a round of Mario Kart. Joy-Con with the wheel on the other hand, it's actually pretty comfortable! Hell I can use motion control with that and feel pretty tight. Gave me an appreciation for that wheel accessory.
 
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FeiFongWong said:
Joycons were a mistake. Marketing wise they got a win, because 2 people can play with one set, but they completely ignored a bigger group that uses switch as a handheld. Sadly, we will have to buy another set from 3rd parties.
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Judging from Lite sales I think Nintendo is fine with the trade off of making a “mistake” & taking a “marketing win.”
 
FeiFongWong said:
Joycons were a mistake. Marketing wise they got a win, because 2 people can play with one set, but they completely ignored a bigger group that uses switch as a handheld. Sadly, we will have to buy another set from 3rd parties.
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Hard disagree. Joycons are compromised because they have to fulfill their role both as individual controllers and as inputs for portable mode (and docked with the puppy shell) but they work well enough for both, even if a little uncomfortable.
 
Agreed. Better ergonomics is something I'm very hopeful for.

I play in Docked most of the time because I just dont like how the Switch feels in my hands. The Joycons feel too flimsy, the buttons are way too small. The 3DS had the perfect size.

On the flip side, the Lite does is perfectly. The system and buttons are just the right size, and it feels good in the hands.

If they make the Switch 2 as comfy to hold as the Switch Lite is, I will literally never put it down. My dream is to get some future iteration of the Drake with the Lite's same form factor and an OLED screen, that has some kind of streaming/casting to the dock. (Or just cut the middleman and enable docking)
 
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FeiFongWong said:
It's not as simple as you think it is. I care only about handheld, but I bought v2. The reason was that it has bigger screen and you can detach those terrible controllers.
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You made claims that the data doesn’t back up so it really is that simple. Your trying to represent a minority case as something bigger when it’s not.
 
Tentacle-tropes said:
You made claims that the data doesn’t back up so it really is that simple. Your trying to represent a minority case as something bigger when it’s not.
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XD It's exactly what you are trying to do.

The number of consoles sold doesn't back up your nonsense claim. There is not one reason why people prefer to get the "normal" console.
 
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the biggest issue with ergonomics is hand size. what is comfortable for a woman with smaller than average hands and a man with larger than average hands is pretty different.
 
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FeiFongWong said:
XD It's exactly what you are trying to do.

The number of consoles sold doesn't back up your nonsense claim. There is not one reason why people prefer to get the "normal" console.
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If you don’t follow sales data or trends then just say so because it backs me up more then whatever your trying to push.
 
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I feel like for a first machine their decision was an optimal one, since the "flat" joycons made for stricking visual identity, but now that the Switch is already a household item, sure, go ahead, make them lumpier and more comfortable if you feel like it.
 
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