Discussion Miyamoto: If we have a game that sells 30 million units every few years we'll be fine (Interview with Itoi)

[OctoSplattack]

That's because while he is a good creator, there's so many stories from employees about him being a colossal drongo that it's not surprising that he says some stuff that's taken badly. He forced the people on Mariio Galaxy 2 to make don't planets despite the engine not really supporting that, and stories from metroid prime's development had them also constantly fight Miyamotos bizarre requests.

Could you elaborate on these?

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

What did he screw up with TWW?

The reason why the nautical flow in the second half of TWW is boring is because Shigeru Miyamoto felt that the ocean itself had to be shown empty, leading to the abandonment of two other large mazes that had already been made by Aonuma.

The most important reason for the rumors of Aonuma's departure in 2002, aside from TWW's verbal abuse in the North American gamer community, was that when Eiji Aonuma and Shigeru Miyamoto were asked what the spirit of the Legend of Zelda was during an interview in Europe, Aonuma thought it was growth, and Shigeru Miyamoto disagreed, which, coupled with the disaster of the latter half of TWW caused by Shigeru Miyamoto's involvement during TWW's development, made it so that Aonuma no longer wanted to work on the Legend of Zelda.

 

[AlwaysOnDeck]

Not expecting switch2 to be as successful as switch1, but if switch2 ends up selling around 120 to 130 million in its career, there will still be three to four 30 million level games for sure, like the new Mario Kart and the new AC and smash. The new 3d Mario and 3d Zelda will both be in the 20 million level.

I don't think Animal Crossing sells 30M ever again. That was a flash in the pan scenario.

And, if Switch2 is backwards compatible, I don't expect the next Mario Kart to sell 30M, either.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I don't think Animal Crossing sells 30M ever again. That was a flash in the pan scenario.

And, if Switch2 is backwards compatible, I don't expect the next Mario Kart to sell 30M, either.

AC is at 45 million sales on switch. You're presupposing too much at the same time, it's true that AC's current sales have been propped up quite a bit by the outbreak period, but there's no reason why it would be lowered by more than 10 million on a new release, and similarly Mario Kart 9, being a switch2 exclusive, as long as the switch2 career sales will be 120 million I don't see any way it gets to anything less than 40 million, and the need to know is this The 140 million unit switch has already sold 60 million copies of Mario Kart 8DX on the same bundle.

 

[Yavga]

I don't think Animal Crossing sells 30M ever again. That was a flash in the pan scenario.

And, if Switch2 is backwards compatible, I don't expect the next Mario Kart to sell 30M, either.

I wonder how many new people were introduced to AC New Horizons and how many of these people Nintendo manages to retain, I think Animal Crossing may now be a evergreen franchise and continues to sell comfortably up in the top along with the other heavy hitters.

Depending on what Mario Kart 9 or X will be it could sell a lot, if they turn it into some kind of live service game with seasonal content and Nintendo all-stars the game might end up selling beyond a single generation, but it will never do the numbers Mario Kart 8 did in a single gen.

 

[AlwaysOnDeck]

The 30 million + sellers will be Mario Kart, Smash maybe and maybe animal crossing. Just the really casual friendly/fun games to play when people come over type ststuff.

None of those games are going to sell 30 Million on Switch 2

That's crazy lol by those metrics, Nintendo had almost no big hits in its entire history before the Switch.

The Super Nintendo had 0 big hits, imagine that lol

I can't believe how many people on this thread can't wrap their heads around his statement alluding to how Nintendo will not struggle like the rest of the industry, so long as they release a mega-hit every 3-5 years.

Why are people in their feelings because the stuff they like isn't the stuff that's bankrolline the company that makes the stuff they like? Are we at the point of the Switch's life cycle where cynicism is the popular thing to feel? Or is this just an odd emotional response to the fact that the gaming industry is in a massive decline and people don't have anything else going for them, in life, but their gaming hobby?

 

[AlwaysOnDeck]

I wonder how many new people were introduced to AC New Horizons and how many of these people Nintendo manages to retain, I think Animal Crossing may now be a evergreen franchise and continues to sell comfortably up in the top along with the other heavy hitters.

Animal Crossing benefited greatly from the pandemic lockdown. Flash in the pan. Even another lockdown wouldn't result in those numbers replicating.

AC is at 45 million sales on switch. You're presupposing too much at the same time, it's true that AC's current sales have been propped up quite a bit by the outbreak period, but there's no reason why it would be lowered by more than 10 million on a new release, and similarly Mario Kart 9, being a switch2 exclusive, as long as the switch2 career sales will be 120 million I don't see any way it gets to anything less than 40 million, and the need to know is this The 140 million unit switch has already sold 60 million copies of Mario Kart 8DX on the same bundle.

I see it as a 15M franchise, 20M at best - depending on how well the next Switch console sells, but I'd imagine the majority of people who purchased it during lockdown stopped playing it as soon as they could go outside again, if not before.

If Switch 2 is Backwards Compatibly, a significant portion of the 60M Mario Kart 8 Deluxe audience will continue to play that game, even with an attractive hook.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Animal Crossing benefited greatly from the pandemic lockdown. Flash in the pan. Even another lockdown wouldn't result in those numbers replicating.


I see it as a 15M franchise, 20M at best - depending on how well the next Switch console sells, but I'd imagine the majority of people who purchased it during lockdown stopped playing it as soon as they could go outside again, if not before.

If Switch 2 is Backwards Compatibly, a significant portion of the 60M Mario Kart 8 Deluxe audience will continue to play that game, even with an attractive hook.

Again, the basis of your argument is untenable and you presuppose too much speculation on a subjective level.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I wonder how many new people were introduced to AC New Horizons and how many of these people Nintendo manages to retain, I think Animal Crossing may now be a evergreen franchise and continues to sell comfortably up in the top along with the other heavy hitters.

Depending on what Mario Kart 9 or X will be it could sell a lot, if they turn it into some kind of live service game with seasonal content and Nintendo all-stars the game might end up selling beyond a single generation, but it will never do the numbers Mario Kart 8 did in a single gen.

Now it might be evergreen?

People really just have a void in their memory of how animal crossing sold on the ds and 3ds huh

 

[Undeniablybiased]

It’s logical to assume the switch 2 and its software will sell less overall than switch1. But there’s no reason to assume the drop off will be that huge. They’ve been a household name for many decades. If they make a solid product again, people will show up like they always have.

 

[junglehead]

Thing is, if the initial burst of sales is so huge, then that just means you made your profit sooner rather than later. So why would TOTK trailing off even matter anymore if you've already gotten such a phenomenal result?

Because the trail was just that poor. Getting your profit sooner is fantastic, but the fact BOTW is still performing ahead doesn't really spell great news for TOTK. It's far from a flop, incredibly far, but it disappoints in that respect.

I want to punctuate this by mentioning that games selling millions early on is actually the exception: the best-sellers very frequently perform long-term, historically speaking (e.g: Crash N-Sane just recently reached 20 million units sold-through after hitting 10 mill in late 2018/early 2019.)

 

[Linkstrikesback]

A

Animal Crossing benefited greatly from the pandemic lockdown. Flash in the pan. Even another lockdown wouldn't result in those numbers replicating.


I see it as a 15M franchise, 20M at best - depending on how well the next Switch console sells, but I'd imagine the majority of people who purchased it during lockdown stopped playing it as soon as they could go outside again, if not before.

If Switch 2 is Backwards Compatibly, a significant portion of the 60M Mario Kart 8 Deluxe audience will continue to play that game, even with an attractive hook.

"Animal crossing would be the one franchise that doesn't see a significant switch boost" sure is an opinion someone could have, because that's what you're saying.

Reminder again for the people in the back, animal crossing on the 3ds managed to outsell smash bros, 3d mario, every Zelda game, some of the Pokémon titles.

And the "people stopped being interested in AC" stuff has always been bollocks, it's continued selling gangbusters every quarter and has better legs than whatever your favourite switch game is unless it's mario kart.

 

[Twohearts]

The simple explanation is that from an American perspective many Japanese developers (mainly producers) have an attribute of being dictators, but that's not actually true, it's just the power structure of the Japanese game industry that dictates it. In fact Nintendo's overtime issues were already considered relatively mild throughout the Japanese industry at that point.

Not American. Also not saying Nintendo isn't good comparatively but it still sounds like hell

 

[Twohearts]

?

I meant doughnut planets. My new tablet has a really annoying autocorrect it doesn't know any of the good words

Could you elaborate on these?

It's 4am, I'll search through articles tomorrow afternoon

Edit:

Miyamoto's "bug head" Samus question led to the visor system in the Metroid Prime series

This comes from the developer’s voice interview with the developers of the Metroid Prime series over at Retro… “Mike Wikan likes to tell a story about Mr. Miyamoto asking us during the early design phases of Prime 1, ‘What would it be like if Samus had a bug’s head?'” – Brian Walker, Senior...

nintendoeverything.com

I know the original interview this isnfrom listed more weird demands from Miyamoto that they learned to ignore
I cannot find the interview about mario galaxy 1/2 but I could probably find it if I kept looking through iwata asks

 

[Undeniablybiased]

I’d be disappointed in Nintendo’s understanding of the market if they expected totk to perform similarly to BotW.

 

[Nemesis24]

Of course this thread was posted by Neoxon on resetera...

 

[Nemesis24]

what the genuine fuck this is real? absolutely dystopian level stuff

dystopian? well i guess japan is

 

[placenta]

Edit:

Miyamoto's "bug head" Samus question led to the visor system in the Metroid Prime series

This comes from the developer’s voice interview with the developers of the Metroid Prime series over at Retro… “Mike Wikan likes to tell a story about Mr. Miyamoto asking us during the early design phases of Prime 1, ‘What would it be like if Samus had a bug’s head?'” – Brian Walker, Senior...

nintendoeverything.com

I know the original interview this isnfrom listed more weird demands from Miyamoto that they learned to ignore

By no means do I want to question your statements, but this interview particularly shows how he inspired them to do the visor mechanic. You may question his way of communicating which is not explicit, but by no means do I see any bizarre request here. Quite the opposite.

 

[Twohearts]

By no means do I want to question your statements, but this interview particularly shows how he inspired them to do the visor mechanic. You may question his way of communicating which is not explicit, but by no means do I see any bizarre request here. Quite the opposite.

That's ok. The me my impression of how he requests this stuff came off as harsh demands but that could be my PTsD talking. I'm really sorry for derailing this thread

 

[Dark Cloud]

Of course this thread was posted by Neoxon on resetera...

I wonder what that’s supposed to mean

 

[VintoWin]

None of those games are going to sell 30 Million on Switch 2

Maybe, maybe not. Mario Kart has a decent chance.

 

[Superfirebros447]

I see this thread got derailed a little bit.

 

[JazzyFuture]

NGL it's a little funny to me that a thread about Miyamoto saying "If we make a game that makes us over a billion dollars like 3 times in a decade or so, Nintendo will continue as a business" got a little conspiratorial.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Because the trail was just that poor. Getting your profit sooner is fantastic, but the fact BOTW is still performing ahead doesn't really spell great news for TOTK. It's far from a flop, incredibly far, but it disappoints in that respect.

I want to punctuate this by mentioning that games selling millions early on is actually the exception: the best-sellers very frequently perform long-term, historically speaking (e.g: Crash N-Sane just recently reached 20 million units sold-through after hitting 10 mill in late 2018/early 2019.)

But conversely, the initial sales were just that good. So that goes back to my point about how if Nintendo expected TOTK to get all the way to 30M, then they haven't been paying attention.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Because the trail was just that poor. Getting your profit sooner is fantastic, but the fact BOTW is still performing ahead doesn't really spell great news for TOTK. It's far from a flop, incredibly far, but it disappoints in that respect.

I want to punctuate this by mentioning that games selling millions early on is actually the exception: the best-sellers very frequently perform long-term, historically speaking (e.g: Crash N-Sane just recently reached 20 million units sold-through after hitting 10 mill in late 2018/early 2019.)

The legs on everything have been relatively poor vs earlier years of the Switch's life. Which makes sense, because the vast majority of the userbase the switch will ever see have the platform now whereas they obviously didn't in 2017

 

[Gotdatmoneyy]

None of those games are going to sell 30 Million on Switch 2

There is no possible way you can know this. All we can do is wait and see how the new hardware is received. But Mario Kart has done 30m+ twice. On Wii (37m+) and Switch (60m+). Your confidence isn't founded in anything.

Animal Crossing benefited greatly from the pandemic lockdown. Flash in the pan. Even another lockdown wouldn't result in those numbers replicating.

Every game that released during the pandemic benefited from it. Gaming was boosted exponentially. If we had another lockdown on the scale of covid lockdowns, you 100% would see similar results. You ignore what stay inside orders do for digital entertainment.

I see it as a 15M franchise, 20M at best - depending on how well the next Switch console sells, but I'd imagine the majority of people who purchased it during lockdown stopped playing it as soon as they could go outside again, if not before.

Animal Crossing was 13m selling franchise on the 3DS before New Horizons came out. The 3DS is significantly worse at selling software compared to the Switch. There is no reason to believe this franchise will lose more than half of its purchasers if the Switch 2 is a good success (>100m hardware sales).

If Switch 2 is Backwards Compatibly, a significant portion of the 60M Mario Kart 8 Deluxe audience will continue to play that game, even with an attractive hook.

This is dumb and basically suggests that backwards compatibility makes sequels pointless.

 

[thoughthaver]

I meant doughnut planets. My new tablet has a really annoying autocorrect it doesn't know any of the good words



It's 4am, I'll search through articles tomorrow afternoon

Edit:

Miyamoto's "bug head" Samus question led to the visor system in the Metroid Prime series

This comes from the developer’s voice interview with the developers of the Metroid Prime series over at Retro… “Mike Wikan likes to tell a story about Mr. Miyamoto asking us during the early design phases of Prime 1, ‘What would it be like if Samus had a bug’s head?'” – Brian Walker, Senior...

nintendoeverything.com

I know the original interview this isnfrom listed more weird demands from Miyamoto that they learned to ignore
I cannot find the interview about mario galaxy 1/2 but I could probably find it if I kept looking through iwata asks

this is hilarious honestly. man's like "what if you were cheese", refuses to elaborate and leaves.

I wonder what that’s supposed to mean

probably that not everything that gets posted here needs to be posted over there, given how temperamental and illiterate that place is. particularly a google translated article. at the very least wait for a proper translation.

 

[Danny]

It must be frustrating for other executives in the industry like Phil Spencer to see Nintendo aiming to make multiple 30+ million sellers every generation while they had to move to a subscription model because they struggled to make games that were able to sell even a few million copies.

Miyamoto's quote just shows how old school Nintendo's business model is. Where every other player in the industry aims to make a GAAS game that earns revenue almost permanently from monetization, Nintendo is still just following the classic model where they meassure success from the amount of sold copies every game delivers. That should be seen as a good thing rather than a negative in my opinion. And it shows how different their model is from Xbox, meassuring success from sold copies of games vs entirely abandoning sales targets in favor of subscription revenue streams.

But i think Nintendo's model makes it easier to decide on appropiate budgets for games. If they make a game where they have the target to sell 2-4 million copies of that particular game that will make it easier for them to decide on an appropiate budget for that particular game vs if you have a subscription model its harder to pinpoint an appropiate budget when you decide on budget for your games, leading to stuff like Hi-Fi Rush happening.

 

[Yamanoi]

I prefer this quote from the legend:

 

[Mer.Saloon]

The reason why the nautical flow in the second half of TWW is boring is because Shigeru Miyamoto felt that the ocean itself had to be shown empty, leading to the abandonment of two other large mazes that had already been made by Aonuma.

The most important reason for the rumors of Aonuma's departure in 2002, aside from TWW's verbal abuse in the North American gamer community, was that when Eiji Aonuma and Shigeru Miyamoto were asked what the spirit of the Legend of Zelda was during an interview in Europe, Aonuma thought it was growth, and Shigeru Miyamoto disagreed, which, coupled with the disaster of the latter half of TWW caused by Shigeru Miyamoto's involvement during TWW's development, made it so that Aonuma no longer wanted to work on the Legend of Zelda.

Source?

As far as I've heard from Eiji Aonuma the ocean is empty because of loading zones on the original Gamecube discs.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

The ocean in wind waker is empty because it's a ocean.

If it's littered with a dense ton of things everywhere, it wouldn't be an ocean by literal definition.

 

[WestEgg]

I prefer this quote from the legend:

He’s right

 

[OctoSplattack]

The reason why the nautical flow in the second half of TWW is boring is because Shigeru Miyamoto felt that the ocean itself had to be shown empty, leading to the abandonment of two other large mazes that had already been made by Aonuma.

I'm pretty sure that the second half of the game being the way it is was due to time constraints as opposed to debates over game design. A lot of GameCube titles in the system's first year or two suffered from rushed development.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I'm pretty sure that the second half of the game being the way it is was due to time constraints as opposed to debates over game design. A lot of GameCube titles in the system's first year or two suffered from rushed development.

Well I'm not sure about that statement, I need to go and verify the info. But there is no doubt that Eiji Aonuma did want to resign during this period.

 

[Dark Cloud]

First time I’m hearing about Aonuma wanting to resign during that period.

 

[WonderLuigi]

First time I’m hearing about Aonuma wanting to resign during that period.

Eiji Aonuma explains why he once wanted to leave the Zelda team - Zelda Universe

There are few people in the video game industry who are as acclaimed and respected as Eiji Aonuma. He has gained a lot of admiration due to his work on many different Zelda games. His creativity and direction for the series has consistently been praised by fans and critics alike. However in a...

zeldauniverse.net

 

[WonderLuigi]

Didn't find anything on Miyamoto making the second half of WW boring on purpose. On the contrary, he seems to have approved it despite knowing it wasn't good and apologized a few years later.

Miyamoto Says Wind Waker Was Boring - Slashdot

Eurogamer has a talk with Shigeru Miyamoto, maker of the Legend of Zelda series, where he reveals frustrations with The Wind Waker. From the article: "At the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel...

games.slashdot.org

Edit: also, on the ocean being vast and empty, it was because areas had to load on the GC. They wanted it to be smaller. Source:

 

[Bowser Sr.]

I prefer this quote from the legend:

So THIS is why Goombas can't wear hats anymore?!

 

[OctoSplattack]

Eiji Aonuma explains why he once wanted to leave the Zelda team - Zelda Universe

There are few people in the video game industry who are as acclaimed and respected as Eiji Aonuma. He has gained a lot of admiration due to his work on many different Zelda games. His creativity and direction for the series has consistently been praised by fans and critics alike. However in a...

zeldauniverse.net

Can't say I blame him. I'd also think about leaving if my boss kept contradicting me in interviews. Could have been worse though; Miyamoto could have went the full Peter Molyneux route and start talking about the games having features that the dev team didn't plan to--

Aonuma: At first, I wasn't thinking about using an orchestra at all [for Skyward Sword]. But during the roundtable at E3 2010, a reporter asked if we would use an orchestra for The Legend of Zelda, and Mr. Miyamoto replied, "An orchestra suits The Legend of Zelda, so we'll be thinking about it." When I came back to Japan, Wakai-san came up to me in a fluster and said, "Is the music going to be orchestral this time?!" I was like, "No, I don't think so."

 

[bashfluff]

Nintendo is only just beginning to rise to their potential, I think. Switch was them recovering after the Wii U. I want to see what Nintendo can do now that they're had a whole generation where they were firing on all cylinders.