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News Kotaku - NoA's testers say they faced years of sexual harassment (UP: Doug Bowsers says the company is "actively investigating the claims")
- Thread starter sagadego20
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Investigate who leaked it to the press, most likely.
Intoxicate
The best is yet to come...
User banned for two weeks. Downplaying sexism in a thread about allegations of long-term misogynistic harassment is completely inappropriate. - paranoodle, hologram, Aurc
Things change when they grow up.
Still this thread smells like resetera.
I’m looking forward to the times when everything masculine is replaced with whatever we are driving for. Can’t wait to read the first complains about woman dominated organizations.
The problem is mankind. The one in power will abuse it.
Still this thread smells like resetera.
I’m looking forward to the times when everything masculine is replaced with whatever we are driving for. Can’t wait to read the first complains about woman dominated organizations.
The problem is mankind. The one in power will abuse it.
yeah, sadly
Mekanos
おっす！
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Shut the fuck up nerd
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say it with your chest, my dude
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Let all of management go in testing. Kill the contracting company. Bring testing fully in house. Don't interfere with unionization.
I have no idea how complicit upper management is, but the patterns of behavior coming out of NoA are all associated with this contracting company the the QA staff. If the "best case" (and calling anything best case here makes my stomach churn) is that this was concentrated to an isolated team (both physically and in terms of the corporate structure) and because the contractor situation limited access to protections, then just burn that structure the fuck down.
I have no idea how complicit upper management is, but the patterns of behavior coming out of NoA are all associated with this contracting company the the QA staff. If the "best case" (and calling anything best case here makes my stomach churn) is that this was concentrated to an isolated team (both physically and in terms of the corporate structure) and because the contractor situation limited access to protections, then just burn that structure the fuck down.
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bro what are you even talking about
Ostia
Octorok
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Lmao you are not subtle.
Also what do you mean “the first complaints”, women sexually harass and abuse others too. Why “can’t you wait to read” about that? Extremely gross mindset to have
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How does this thread smell like Resetera? We're complaining about actual issues that affect real people, not worrying about how fictional Xenoblade characters are dressed.
Ketwick9844
Octorok
Amigo, think REALLY hard about what you just posted for a second. I guarantee you that this isn't worded the way you think it's worded.
Mekanos
おっす！
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They know exactly what they're doing
Mekanos
おっす！
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Also every time there are stories of men sexually harassing women, we get people coming out the woodwork crying about "what about when women do it?"
Yes! It's also bad! It's also well documented to definitely happen. What a lot of these chuds WON'T say, is a lot of those cases involve white women targeting men of color, especially black men.
‘I had to submit to being exoticised by white women. If I didn’t, I was punished’
I support the movement to address misogyny and patriarchy in our society, but it’s time for an honest discussion about how some women use white privilege to oppress black men
www.theguardian.com
It's a dishonest framing meant to take focus away from the story. Which is why you shouldn't engage it, just tell them their shit stinks.
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I actually think Intoxicate might be ESL and there might be a disconnect between what they wanted to say and how it came off.
Not excusing how it comes off, mind you, but i don't feel there's active, intentional malice there.
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I'm not surprised anymore but I will never stop being angry. If anything I'm getting angrier. I'm so tired of seeing no substantial changes after awareness is being raised time and time again. Things need to change NOW. Corporations are such trash. It's going to be profits before people as long as they are not being regulated and held accountable. Stop pandering people and entities that exploit others and are incapable of feeling empathy. Stop it. The world is fucking insane. How is society at large so okay with so much harm being casually perpetrated. It's not okay. Stop it. Change.
boris_feinbrand
Moblin
Shit like this is always being kept on the low end. Most people never report this shit and colleagues in a position to report such behaviour rarely do so out of fear of backlash, blacklisting etc.
I've seen so much vile shit never communicated to superiors either out of indifference or fear of negative consequences.
Note that my experience is way outside the tech industry. This shit is everywhere.
Abusers are usually very good at occupying a position where no one can touch them, or those that could usually ignore them. They are parasites that ruin workplaces and lives.
PixelKnight
Observing the process
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Which ‘they’ are you referring to here?
And what do you mean by ‘this thread smells like Era’?
Your post comes across like a vague handwave, a shrug that systemic sexism is a side-effect of generic power structures (and thus a human issue that can’t be addressed). Rather than an observed, experienced, industry-wide pattern of behaviour by a number of male employees that’s worth addressing.
Dekuman
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Yeah, HR is not there to help you.
I am happy though that there is a statement and acknowledgement of a problem. Lessens the chances HR sweeps it under the rug.
The right solution I think is for Nintendo to unionize and for union rules to apply to their contractors.
I am happy though that there is a statement and acknowledgement of a problem. Lessens the chances HR sweeps it under the rug.
The right solution I think is for Nintendo to unionize and for union rules to apply to their contractors.
GrislyRaccoon
Moblin
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You sound like those medieval prophets in video games that everyone ignores.
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Yet another story of Nintendo of America failing its contract workers, this time with a sickening misogynistic edge. HR will not save this, nor will a boss ensure this. While it's not a be-all-end-all solution, I hope both NOA's in-house employees and the contractors at Aerotek can form unions to fight back against this. Nothing much more I can add that hasn't already been said concerning the update from Doug Bowser, as well. We'll see, but more revolutionary, worker-led action is more likely than whatever Mr. Bowser does to lead to meaningful change.
I actually going to disagree with the criticisms concerning the inclusion of the initial anecdote. A big portion of the article is to establish that Nintendo, the family friendly company on the surface, has a testing department with a "frat house" like culture that makes women uncomfortable, one of the many things that reinforces a male-dominated hierarchy and upholds misogyny in the workplace, things that later build to the more heinous actions. The anecdote is a punchy example to help establish that, and it is referenced later in the piece when comparing how a tester couldn't act because a NoA employee, not a contractor, made those inappropriate jokes, thus further establishing how contractors are second-class. It's relevant to the situation.
I actually going to disagree with the criticisms concerning the inclusion of the initial anecdote. A big portion of the article is to establish that Nintendo, the family friendly company on the surface, has a testing department with a "frat house" like culture that makes women uncomfortable, one of the many things that reinforces a male-dominated hierarchy and upholds misogyny in the workplace, things that later build to the more heinous actions. The anecdote is a punchy example to help establish that, and it is referenced later in the piece when comparing how a tester couldn't act because a NoA employee, not a contractor, made those inappropriate jokes, thus further establishing how contractors are second-class. It's relevant to the situation.
How about instead of an investigation you cut ties with the vendor and hire more QA in-house so you take away the badge dynamics and can actually be accountable for the people who help make your games?
This contractor setup so many companies have is absolutely terrible…for workers. It’s obviously great for companies.
This contractor setup so many companies have is absolutely terrible…for workers. It’s obviously great for companies.
Tatsu
Moblin
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Oof they use AeroTek they are a horrible Horrible company. Every company treats those workers like Last weeks Dog Doo Doo. I stopped going to their agency for that very reason as all call centers and Data Entry jobs i did made sure to know i was not an employee and i was just a body making sure to know its almost impossible to become an employee etc.
boris_feinbrand
Moblin
Just a quick reply regarding unionisation efforts.
I worked at places with very strong unions. (Think multiple decades old
That never solved the problem of work place abuse by sueriors or shift managers or toxic work culture. The only thing it really does is make sure workers get treated fairly by the company in terms of general work conditions that go beyond minimum legal requirements.
The abuse however just gets hidden away better and becomes harder to prove. (More verbal non traceable stuff)
It's not some magical panacea that will suddenly make a workplace safe. It's a helpful tool to fight for a better workplace though, that's for sure.
As for the investigation... Yeah I don't expect much. It is obvious that these abusers already successfully ignored and circumvented company policies for years, so unless management goes in with a scorched earth mentality nothing much will change. Especially since they tell workers to contact HR.
Never, NEVER go to HR with grievances.
If they don't offer an independent arbitration body voted for by the workers nothing will get solved.
Im the short term I feel like the only reliable solution is to take every tester in house, foregoing contractors all together. As well as establishing an independent arbitration body that offers a real option for workers to report abuse.
And even then, abusers will find ways to hide in plain sight and just be more careful. Fucking cockroaches.
Dcubed
Paratroopa
That statement wasn't about the harrassment, it was about the "caste" system; that's the part that can only be solved by ditching contract agencies completely. Solving the harrassment is the part that is simply just an endless game of Whack A Mole.
Apopheniac
Monolith Soft action game truther
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Contractors don't get the same benefits as regular employees. They do good work for the company, and would be capable employees, but it's cheaper for Nintendo to not hire them.
Ostia
Octorok
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They should ditch contractor setups because they are horrible for workers in general and exist only as a way to pawn off worker exploitation onto a separate entity to avoid liability. However Nintendo still has plenty they can do other than eliminating contract work entirely (which they should do) such as disciplining and removing their employees who are the majority of the ones engaged in harassment.
Depends what we are talking about but in this case QA contractors don’t even need a college degree. When I was QA for a contractor that worked for a Japanese Dev, some people were straight out of high school. It was minimum wage. They basically hired you for a few months and then dumped you once the project was over and said they’d call when the next game was coming up. So you worked for shit money, no benefits, basically no way to move up in the company unless they really liked you and then maaaybe they’d hire 1 person to work directly for the company per year and the environment was toxic for women - and it was definitely better than what I’d heard at other companies in the area. Companies like it because they get cheap labor and the contracting company manages getting more or less QA when needed. So it’s more “scalable”. The alternative is you have a bunch of employees who may have nothing to do for months if your release schedule is light or who may be overwhelmed when several titles are coming out at once. I think it’s an awful system.
D
Deleted member 1108
Guest
Contractors as a concept is sold as these people you hire one or two for very expensive prices, and they will analyze and point out the weaknesses on your processes and how to fix them.
In reality, contractors are workers hired in bulk for very cheap to outsource the majority of the menial work that needs to be done.
You’re thinking of consultants which sometimes are just contractors, but often do what you wrote.
The only issue with getting rid of contractors is that NOA is a sales, marketing, and PR company with the exception of Treehouse their full time localizers, who also engage in PR (such as videos).
But almost everyone there is from advertising and marketing. They are not testers or devs.
One option is they can hire full time employees for QA and assisting Treehouse. However, the issue comes up is they will not have work all the time.
So that is an issue. They have to use contractors. What they need is as someone pointed out to me, a unionized contracting company.
But almost everyone there is from advertising and marketing. They are not testers or devs.
One option is they can hire full time employees for QA and assisting Treehouse. However, the issue comes up is they will not have work all the time.
So that is an issue. They have to use contractors. What they need is as someone pointed out to me, a unionized contracting company.
Every company wants to hire contractors, at least in the United States. You don't get the same amount of protections as a contractor as you would an employee. Easier to fire, easier to not provide benefits, easier to change the terms of employment because the contract is usually for a limited time.
Dekuman
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This is a global issue. I'm in Canada and my very good union company hires contractors on temp contract as well.
The difference is all workers including contractors belong to the union and while permanent staff is greatly favored and by union rules get priority in job placements if a perm staff is up against a conttactor , there is still a clear path for a contractor becoming permanent FT anf many do get hired on as FT or find a placement that is FT once their contract is up. Hence my post uprhread about NoA needing to unionize
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Honestly I think there's plenty of work to be done. I'm not sure how it is nowadays but I know folks at the company Nintendo contracts through for testers and it was known openly that Nintendo would contract testers for just under the time someone would be legally be considered for benefits/full-time in order to skirt around the rules - it's been a few years but I think the contract length was 51 weeks, so just shy of a full year. It's less an issue of need and more an issue of Nintendo wanting testing done as cheap as possible without providing any benefits to those doing the work.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
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I was wondering if this story had updated, but using a tragedy to advertise seems a little scummy to me.
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Bots have no shame
Erimgard
Chozo
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Someone with 0 posts bumped the thread after 7 months to promote their website
Rampo360
Bob-omb
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I guess there was a post that got deleted?
ZephyrPhoenix
Everything Rises and Everything Eventually Falls
Probably a crypto fuckwit. Fucking typical.
Although on this topic....guess there hasn't been any updates since then. Alas.
Although on this topic....guess there hasn't been any updates since then. Alas.
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When we erase a spam account, everything related to them is purged.
ProteusRidley
Famiboards one and only Lost Kingdoms simp
Context?
