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Discussion Kingdom Hearts 3 feels like the most low-key sales failure of the generation.

I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Manakete
-Released at the height of Disney's powers, released one year after Frozen 2, 3 months before Avengers Infinity War, a year before The Lion King remake and Avengers Endgame.
-The end of a trilogy that had been hyped up for 12 years.
-Prominently includes Toy Story and Frozen for the first time, two of the all time biggest Disney IPs.
-Multiplatform release
-Constantly on sale and has been under $15 for a long while
-Major DLC released for it
-Extremely high budget game with a lengthy dev cycle


.... Sold significantly less than Nier Automata (6.7m for KH3 vs. 7.5m for Nier Automata), the fifth game in the previously super unpopular Drakengard franchise and the direct sequel to Nier Gestalt, which is pretty clearly a Kingdom Hearts 2 bashing game (taking the concept of KH2's nobodies almost directly to show how shallow KH2's story is) to add insult to injury.

6.7m for KH3 isn't horrible or anything (the official final sales numbers after 3.5 years), but it represents almost no growth for the franchise even as dev cycles and budgets have skyrocketed and as other popular games have significantly increased in sales.

While most games aren't dragged down by the baggage of needed knowledge, it feels fairly obvious that KH3 managed to get dragged down by its extremely complicated and extremely stupid lore. But Nomura/Square/Nojima seem to be tripling down on this issue. KH4 is a direct sequel to KH3's incomprehensible ending and includes many story elements from Final Fantasy Versus XIII, a game that was cancelled in 2011 that no one other than Nomura's 30k most dedicated fans still cares about.

Beyond the baggage of the prior lore, Kingdom Hearts has struggled due to a seeming lack of talent in critical areas on the dev team and a total lack of interest in trying to cash in on the appeal of the franchise. The cutscene direction for Kingdom Hearts is the worst in the industry outside of maybe Bethesda Games Studios and Game Freak, despite this being a very story driven RPG with hours and hours of cutscenes. Meanwhile, despite being a Final Fantasy crossover with Disney, the franchise simply refuses to engage with Disney at all, just rehashing Disney movies while adding nothing to them and having them make no contribution to the plot. Meanwhile, almost no Final Fantasy characters appear in the franchise anymore. It treats both Disney and Final Fantasy as minor filler elements despite those two elements being the appeal.

I just don't understand how a sales result this disappointing has seemingly caused no reflection whatsoever from Square. KH4 should, at the minimum, be a full reboot with nothing story wise remaining from prior games, but they refuse to let go of this all-time bad storyline.
 
I don't think comparing it to one of the highest selling JRPGs outside of Final Fantasy, Pokemon and Dragon Quest is very fair. It was also an extremely important game in terms of transitioning Square Enix into Unreal Engine. Not everything needs to have huge growth, on top of it, the series has its niche.

We could have a similar conversation with say, Metroid Dread. but I'd be surprised if you'd see many people say that was a mistake, it was the story, etc. It's just easy to point to things you don't like about something and justify is as the issue. But lack of sales aren't indicative of a lack of quality, and this isn't even a lack of sales. Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy and such ALSO haven't grown in sales. Though Dragon Quest IS pivoting to "mature" with Dragon Quest 12, so, heh.
 
Maybe not a full reboot, but at least a soft one where a lot of the old baggage is never brought up much, and many of the excess characters are reintroduced back in carefully. No old knowledge required. But hey, mobile games with convoluted lore make money apparently so I don't see them not tripling down. Honestly at this point I'm only really here to see if they make another game with S tier combat.
 
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Dolce said:
I don't think comparing it to one of the highest selling JRPGs outside of Final Fantasy, Pokemon and Dragon Quest is very fair. It was also an extremely important game in terms of transitioning Square Enix into Unreal Engine. Not everything needs to have huge growth, on top of it, the series has its niche.

We could have a similar conversation with say, Metroid Dread. but I'd be surprised if you'd see many people say that was a mistake, it was the story, etc.
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Metroid Dread has like 15 minutes of story and the only required knowledge is that Samus is part Metroid and part Chozo (and you don't even need to know that as the game tells you).

Kingdom Hearts 3 has 10 hours of cutscenes.

It's one thing to be Kirby and have little story that most consumers engage with while having very deep lore, but having extremely complex lore on a game this story heavy was a massive mistake.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Metroid Dread has like 15 minutes of story and the only required knowledge is that Samus is part Metroid and part Chozo (and you don't even need to know that as the game tells you).

Kingdom Hearts 3 has 10 hours of cutscenes.
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The actual story amount isn't my real point. You could say "Well, Metroid Dread didn't grow the series, so maybe 2D games just aren't worth doing" or any number of things.
 
Dolce said:
The actual story amount isn't my real point. You could say "Well, Metroid Dread didn't grow the series, so maybe 2D games just aren't worth doing" or any number of things.
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... But Metroid Dread significantly grew the franchise?

If Prime 4 only sells like 3m copies, then that would be the hypothetical game to use as an example, but Dread outsold every 2D game in the series, massively outselling every 2D game in the series other than the original.
 
I think most of the audience of KH1/2 lost interest either in the concept of Kingdom Hearts itself, or in Kingdom Hearts genre. KH3 should have been released during the PS3 generation or at the very beginning of the PS4 generation when people were still interested.

A theoretical new audience was alienated by the marketing advertising the game as the end of the KH saga, and by word of mouth telling everyone how confusing and non-sensical the series' plot is.

Also, as someone who only played the GBA game, I got the feeling that the Disney characters and worlds were more and more de-emphasized in favor of the original Square characters, which makes the series even more unappealing for a new player. Though I might be very wrong.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
... But Metroid Dread significantly grew the franchise?

If Prime 4 only sells like 3m copies, then that would be the hypothetical game to use as an example, but Dread outsold every 2D game in the series, massively outselling every 2D game in the series other than the original.
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It sold 3 million copies, likely more now but we don't know how much more. KH1 sold 6~m on PS2, I think the last official PS2 number for KH2 was 4M on PS2. not counting decades of re-releases. Numbers for KH went down after that, for example KH3 sold much more than the DS and PSP games. Which isn't that different from Metroid numbers going down until Dread.

Birth by Sleep is extremely important to KHIII and the series as a whole, and is as mainline as it gets, and KH3 still sold like 3X as much as it did.

I don't know, I mean, the reality is KHIII sold a ton, SE were happy enough to let Nomura do IV and essentially do what he wants, people were excited to see the KH4 trailer.
 
3 was built on top of the mediocrity of the "side" games leading up to it, the fact that it did as well as it did is impressive. I think 4 will do even worse given how divisive 3 was.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
... But Metroid Dread significantly grew the franchise?

If Prime 4 only sells like 3m copies, then that would be the hypothetical game to use as an example, but Dread outsold every 2D game in the series, massively outselling every 2D game in the series other than the original.
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3 million on the switch isn't really growing the series, especially when you consider it was co-marketed/released alongside a new switch model. Metroid saw the lowest increase in growth of any nintendo series on the switch, arguably it wasn't even growth worth mentioning. I also don't see how the situation would be different for prime 4, the sales of prime 1 vs 2/3 are fairly similar to that of NEStroid vs the other 2D games prior to dread.
 
I think this is also true for Final Fantasy 7R. People were treating that like Bread 2 was releasing and instead it just kind of came and went.

I don't think Square Enix does a particularly good job of giving people reasons to care about their IPs, to be honest. A lot of their marketing is them kind of believing their own shit, even though the industry has moved past KH and FF for the last few years. You have to give new audiences reason to join your game, to make up for the audience you lost along the way.

Edit: Should add that obvious neither of those games was a failure, lmao
 
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AngryAlchemist said:
I think this is also true for Final Fantasy 7R. People were treating that like Bread 2 was releasing and instead it just kind of came and went.
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this is really going to depend on where you were. but it's a game I still see conversed about in all kinds of places, especially away from game forums.
 
Dolce said:
this is really going to depend on where you were. but it's a game I still see conversed about in all kinds of places, especially away from game forums.
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There's no "game forum" bias here, it's the exact opposite - you would actually find less people caring about a game like FF7R outside of forums (remember the whole "is FF7R going to outsell ACNH" meme that started from game forums overhyping the game?).

Of course now that the game is getting a sequel it's still being talked about, but from a data perspective, there's no reason to think it was a massive success. It was successful, but not massively so.
 
Dolce said:
It sold 3 million copies, likely more now but we don't know how much more. KH1 sold 6~m on PS2, I think the last official PS2 number for KH2 was 4M on PS2. not counting decades of re-releases. Numbers for KH went down after that, for example KH3 sold much more than the DS and PSP games. Which isn't that different from Metroid numbers going down until Dread.

Birth by Sleep is extremely important to KHIII and the series as a whole, and is as mainline as it gets, and KH3 still sold like 3X as much as it did.

I don't know, I mean, the reality is KHIII sold a ton, SE were happy enough to let Nomura do IV and essentially do what he wants, people were excited to see the KH4 trailer.
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Birth By Sleep released on a completely dead platform (the PSP was killed by piracy by that point and had flatlined) and 3Ds is the most hated game in the series by a lot.

Yes, BBS and 3Ds being so important to KH3 despite having such mediocre sales numbers probably impacted KH3's sales a lot, but why triple down on continuing this awful storyline in KH4? Why keep the baggage going and add in the Versus XIII baggage? The sheer amount of baggage makes it hard for the series to ever seriously include Disney stories in the overall storyline and that seems really bad for the series. It's also going to be really hard to attract new fans.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
There's no "game forum" bias here, it's the exact opposite - you would actually find less people caring about a game like FF7R outside of forums (remember the whole "is FF7R going to outsell ACNH" meme that started from game forums overhyping the game?).

Of course now that the game is getting a sequel it's still being talked about, but from a data perspective, there's no reason to think it was a massive success. It was successful, but not massively so.
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the people arguing that FF7R would outsell ACNH are console warriors and people pushing their system, not people who actually care about the games. in terms of sales all we really know is the launch was about 3.5m and it sold about 5m until August 2020 (4 months later, basically)

it was never going to do as well as the PS1 games or FFX.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Birth By Sleep released on a completely dead platform (the PSP was killed by piracy by that point and had flatlined) and 3Ds is the most hated game in the series by a lot.

Yes, BBS and 3Ds being so important to KH3 despite having such mediocre sales numbers probably impacted KH3's sales a lot, but why triple down on continuing this awful storyline in KH4? Why keep the baggage going and add in the Versus XIII baggage?
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I'm gonna be honest, as someone who doesn't really care too much about Kingdom Hearts outside of playing them every few entries, the Versus XIII stuff is what makes me actually interested.

I don't think Versus XIII has any baggage, outside of a ton of people still lamenting that the project was transformed. FFXV is what has more baggage.

One of my overall points is that the industry and what people buy is volatile and always changing. It's easy to think "well, if KH3 was different, it would have done better" but it could have also done worse. KHIII released in one of the worst periods for classic Disney, and during the middle of Marvel and then Star Wars and everything else. Did that hurt sales? Who knows! I have just learned my feelings about a game have little to do with how well it'll sell or how it'll score, and if I dislike something, who knows, maybe tons of other people liked it.
 
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I think it is perfectly fine for a series to target its niche instead of trying to broaden its appeal. If I liked Kingdom Hearts, I wouldn’t want the series to try and attract people who make blanket statements about the story being “stupid”.

It did fine.
 
that do be how direct story sequels do, it's why the vast majority of companies stopped doing it outright and opted so much more for remakes, reboots, new ips and one-off independent games in ips.

i honestly do have respect for them for committing to this so hard despite it not being financially sound
 
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Well giving that they are making a 4th one, which is seemingly not really a reboot in any way, I'm going to go with no.

Considering how immensely they watered down with the franchise with oodles of spinoffs, semi-sequels, side adventures, etc., the fact that 3 sold dramatically more than 2, and is the best selling game in the franchise, was actually kind of surprising. Particularly with the fucked up PC and Switch situation.

Using Nier Automata as a measuring stick doesn't really mean anything to the conversation.
 
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Despite the fact that Disney itself is bigger than ever, the concept of Kingdom Hearts is itself very 2000s in a way that doesn't play as well to the modern youth. It's a very mall emo Hot Topic kind of Disney, for cross-section of Tim Burton fans and shonen anime fans. Not exactly something that meshes with Disney's current image, in fact a small part of me is surprised Disney has even let the series continue for as long as they have. For this reason I'm not surprised it hasn't grown, and I have a hunch that the playbase for KH3 is considerably older than the playerbase for KH1 and KH2 was for those games' respective launches.
 
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Dolce said:
the people arguing that FF7R would outsell ACNH are console warriors and people pushing their system, not people who actually care about the games. in terms of sales all we really know is the launch was about 3.5m and it sold about 5m until August 2020 (4 months later, basically)

it was never going to do as well as the PS1 games or FFX.
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I don't think it's true that people didn't genuinely think FF7R would be a huge hit, I know that's not exactly what you said, but I don't think a lot of responses to that were just from console warriors

Other than that, I'm not sure what we really disagree on? The fact that "it was never going to do as well as the PS1 games or FFX" is pretty much what my point was here

AngryAlchemist said:
I don't think Square Enix does a particularly good job of giving people reasons to care about their IPs, to be honest. A lot of their marketing is them kind of believing their own shit, even though the industry has moved past KH and FF for the last few years. You have to give new audiences reason to join your game, to make up for the audience you lost along the way.
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There's of course examples where they do a good job, like FFXIV or Nier Automata, but new mainline FF and KH have been waning from where they should be because they aren't keeping up with modern audiences.
 
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Lots of folks love the story of KH and the direction it's headed. I personally found the versus xiii stuff quite appealing.

I don't really understand the sentiment that the issue is that the plot is too crazy or convoluted. It's been a wild ride since the 2000s. If people aren't interested in it, then I don't know why they didn't just write the series off ages ago. Instead, it feels like so many on the Internet are just like... Grumpy at the fact that it exists and keeps doing its bonkers thing. And it's not new to KH3-- this has been a very consistent thing I've noticed as long as I've been on the internet.

Many people are still enjoying the wild ride to the point where its most recent big release, KH3, was the best selling in the series. I don't really understand looking at that and calling that a failure. Missed potential, maybe, but a failure? It feels like the only reason to call it that is bc you want to paint the situation for KH as somehow dire, when in reality it's like... Fine.
 
I'm surprised Nintendo even lets Square Enix on Directs at this stage. It is insulting after the Kingdom Hearts Cloud nonsense. Keep on taking daddy Microsoft and Sony money for your AAA games but give my Switch low budget titles like Dragon Quest?
 
Where you got these numbers sales? If it's vgchartz or wikipedia, these numbers mean nothing.
 
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Yamanoi said:
I'm surprised Nintendo even lets Square Enix on Directs at this stage. It is insulting after the Kingdom Hearts Cloud nonsense. Keep on taking daddy Microsoft and Sony money for your AAA games but give my Switch low budget titles like Dragon Quest?
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so true, such a shame for SE to only put the irrelevant 'dragon quest' series on switch

And I can't get over the indie tier slop they shovel on as well such as
octopath traveler 1 + 2
trials of mana + collection of mana,
bravely default 2
NiER
SaGA
triangle strategy
NEO TWEWY + TWEWY
Star Ocean
Literally every Final Fantasy up to 13
Chrono Cross
LIVE A LIVE
Tactics Ogre

I mean you can barely call these video games! Truly Final Fantasy 17 needs to be exclusive to the 3DS with a budget of $100 million or its OVER for Nintendo and Square.
 
neon said:
so true, such a shame for SE to only put the irrelevant 'dragon quest' series on switch

And I can't get over the indie tier slop they shovel on as well such as
octopath traveler 1 + 2
trials of mana + collection of mana,
bravely default 2
NiER
SaGA
triangle strategy
NEO TWEWY + TWEWY
Star Ocean
Literally every Final Fantasy up to 13
Chrono Cross
LIVE A LIVE
Tactics Ogre

I mean you can barely call these video games! Truly Final Fantasy 17 needs to be exclusive to the 3DS with a budget of $100 million or its OVER for Nintendo and Square.
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they were doing a funny
 
The series is in a weird place to me in that, yes it isn’t setting the charts on fire (like you would think it would due to all the popular IP involved), but it’s also doing pretty great to the point that… rebooting it feels kinda pointless.

I’ll start with putting it like this - you know how a common phrase is “somewhere out there in an alternate universe, [some crazy thing happens]”? Well, we’re that alternate universe where Kingdom Hearts is allowed to exist as it does.

The first game’s premise with an anime OC hopping between Disney worlds was already pretty unique and cool. But the way that original cast and story has evolved into body snatching, crazy time travel, philosophical musings, even more OCs, and a crazy convoluted story all while keeping the Disney crossover aspect and is still allowed to exist as is is mindblowing.

To the point where rebooting it to be more normal and accessible would feel… underwhelming. My first reaction would be “why strip Kingdom Hearts’ uniqueness from it when you could just make something new with all these Disney IP?”

Bringing sales back into it, all of the above would be invalid if the series actually was bombing… but it’s not! KH3 sales were healthy, and the series has a sizeable, passionate, vocal fanbase that actually loves the crazy and convoluted storyline and original characters in these games, believe it or not! Sure the series can be hard to break into for newcomers and that may limit its chance to utterly blow up and cross 20m or whatever, but they’ve built a strong fanbase by going the direction they have.

I’d actually posit the maybe controversial opinion that a reboot to make the series more accessible and strip some of that from it is actually a risk that could easily fail. Disney has a ton of games that use insanely popular IP that sold way less than Kingdom Hearts.

So on one hand, I think the series going in the direction it has does limit extreme exponential growth and is a case of “you made your bed, now lie in it.” But on the other hand… well, it’s a pretty comfortable bed. It occupies its sizeable and healthy niche very well, and a new KH will always drum up hype. The series is just that unique.

It’s not really like FF to me, which kind of has no excuse to not shoot for those crazy sales numbers considering it goes back to the drawing board to try something new with every entry and is square’s flagship franchise.

ALL of that being said, even taking the direction of the series into account and all that comes with that - KH3 was still disappointing in many aspects. It’s DLC bosses are among my favorite gaming experiences ever, but the base game left a lot to be desired. I love the series’ crazy convoluted story and lore, and KH3 didn’t do a lot of it justice. And the battle system and bosses were underwhelming. So another factor is that if KHIV is simply an awesome at release - keeping and builds on Re:Mind’s combat and encounter design, as well as storywise whatever’s going on with The Foretellers, Yozora and Quadratum actually being pulled off well - I think it’ll have a pretty strong WOM and sales.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
-Extremely high budget game with a lengthy dev cycle
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I'm not so sure about that. It's definitely in the AAA budget sphere, but the lengthy dev cycle is mostly because the "KH team" is very often allocated to other SE projects and only can work on KH when they don't work on something else. KH is not considered a priority to SE, it has a dedicated fanbase that seems to have reached a bit of a glass ceiling. But considering a fourth one is in development, it must've made money.
 
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If it was a failure, - but I dont think it's a success either., but there's definitely untapped potential there and much like you say it had a perfect storm going on.

I sometimes think that it would be a real mess but also an absolute delight to see a Kingdomhearts game with the addition of Nintendo characters. I'd buy it hah.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
-Released at the height of Disney's powers, released one year after Frozen 2, 3 months before Avengers Infinity War, a year before The Lion King remake and Avengers Endgame.
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not to be pedantic but your timeline here makes no sense

Infinity War came out in 2018
KH3 came out in early 2019
Endgame, Lion King and Frozen 2 came out later in 2019
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
the height of Disney's powers, released one year after Frozen 2, 3 months before Avengers Infinity War, a year before The Lion King remake and Avengers Endgame
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Not even getting into what I personally think of the Avengers movies, Frozen 2 and live action Lion King were cash-in low points for Disney.

I bought the cloud version of the game for Switch so my SO and kids could play it. My wife completed it but they all said how boring and crappy the story scenes are. It's a button masher from what I can tell. If it failed, I think it's probably deserved.
 
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I doubt that was the height of Disney's powers, that was on the nostalgia of their golden age + Frozen. Their recent films are doing horribly, people even stopped caring about the live action versions of the classics.

Honestly at this point, I would split off KH from Disney, but that's sadly not possible. There's really nothing exciting about seeing Encanto and such in KH. Already had that with things like Big Hero 6 in KH3.
 
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ghostboltz said:
noisypixel.net

Kingdom Hearts III Sells Over 6.7 Million Units Worldwide (September 2021) - Noisy Pixel

During the Kingdom Hearts 20-year anniversary event that occurred last night, a lottery participant, Jyaco, penned down the event's...
noisypixel.net noisypixel.net

KH3 seems like a success? Kingdom Hearts wasn't a massive seller prior to Kingdom Hearts 3.
Selling 6.7m+ as of September 2021 sounds good to me?
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Big games in the late 90s to early 2000s sold hugely less than big games today sell (and had much smaller budgets as well).
 
KH3 was a success lol

We're getting KH4 anyway? Why does it matter if KH3 was a Fail in someone's eyes?
 
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Mbolibombo said:
It's not that black and white.

Development and advertisement cost for KH3 vs another game with similar sales like already mentioned Nier Automata are night and day.
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There is no world where almost 7m copies is not a success. Not selling as much as another game does not mean it is not successful, and growing the brand.
 
ghostboltz said:
noisypixel.net

Kingdom Hearts III Sells Over 6.7 Million Units Worldwide (September 2021) - Noisy Pixel

During the Kingdom Hearts 20-year anniversary event that occurred last night, a lottery participant, Jyaco, penned down the event's...
noisypixel.net noisypixel.net

KH3 seems like a success? Kingdom Hearts wasn't a massive seller prior to Kingdom Hearts 3.
Selling 6.7m+ as of September 2021 sounds good to me?
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it did well, but Square Enix is suffering from a larger problem of their biggest games not doing as well as they're hoping. with the increased costs, I think they're looking for higher sales
 
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How in the world can you look at Kingdom Hearts 3 and say it's "the most low key sales failure of the generation" when it sold over 6 million copies and is getting a sequel?

A company literally got shut down LAST WEEK because of their game not selling well. We see companies shutting down, scaling back, or cancelling projects left and right because games aren't selling well. Most games aren't hitting even close to 6 million.

Also, just because the story isn't good TO YOU, doesn't mean it isn't good for others. Just wanted to throw that in because the second half of the OP reads like you have issues with the story and want it scrapped with the next game, and you used sales as a reason to make a doomer thread about Kingdom Hearts.
 
NieR caught horny lightning in a bottle as some things do from time to time. It was a long time between sequels in a notoriously dense series so... if Kingdom Hearts 1 was just starting in 2019 as a new IP... I suspect it would have done gangbusters - as it is, it seemed to do pretty well all considered.
 
HeyItsPulse said:
How in the world can you look at Kingdom Hearts 3 and say it's "the most low key sales failure of the generation" when it sold over 6 million copies and is getting a sequel?

A company literally got shut down LAST WEEK because of their game not selling well. We see companies shutting down, scaling back, or cancelling projects left and right because games aren't selling well. Most games aren't hitting even close to 6 million.

Also, just because the story isn't good TO YOU, doesn't mean it isn't good for others. Just wanted to throw that in because the second half of the OP reads like you have issues with the story and want it scrapped with the next game, and you used sales as a reason to make a doomer thread about Kingdom Hearts.
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It feels like people have started thinking that if a game isn't doing Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, God of War, etc... numbers, then the game isn't a success and has failed.
 
I don’t get the KINGDOM HEARTS hate. I’ve come to terms with the franchise just being “crazy good gameplay, bad plot”. Because honestly, the story isn’t that bad. It’s the execution. It’s how Tetsuya Nomura, Director and Writer, decides to execute the plot via characters and cutscenes. Honestly, KHIII had a lot going on. It had over a decade and several side games worth of plot points to close. It didn’t help that they lost, like, a year or more of dev time for KH3 due to engine change.

That said, the new saga of the story is a step in the right direction. Sure, it’s been mobile game after mobile game of heavy story, but with how things are looking, I think we’ll finally have s cohesive story experience
 
KH3 did ‘fine’ was able to turn around the series decline and finally an entry outsold KHI, sales would be higher if it released on Steam but is whatever. Of course more could have been expected from the sales considering the almost 2 decade buildup plus Disney hype peak but it is what it is, still a lot better than almost all other SE AAA games of the generation even with it’s bad legs

SirShorse said:
5 million copies in one week by the way
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And then it only sold 1.7 more in almost 4 years
 
Canas Renvall said:
There is no world where almost 7m copies is not a success. Not selling as much as another game does not mean it is not successful, and growing the brand.
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I am talking about RoI and that 6.7M sales in a vacuum isnt a success. I just took Nier Automata as an example to that as it was already mentioned by the OP.
KH3 was clearly a much more expensive game than previous entries and clearly from an economic standpoint wasnt more succesful than the first KH for instance.

But whatever, we're not going anywhere with this discussion and it's weird.
 
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