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News Jeff Grubb on Perfect Dark - "It sounds like it's in a very rough state. It doesn't sound like it's really come together in any way.."

sagadego20

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"The fallout from this (today's layoffs), been hearing more and more.. been hearing for years that Perfect Dark is in a rough state, sounds like it's in a very rough state"

"And it doesn't sound like it's really come together in any way since then (since the announcement) and like Crystal Dynamics coming on board to come help on that.."

Regarding first person shooter aspect:

"It sounds like they don't even know if that's what they want to do with that"


 
Given today's news, I wonder how long it is before Microsoft pulls the plug on both the game and the studio. I'm sure their penny pinchers aren't happy about paying for a studio that has delivered nothing in five years.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if they greenlit the project thinking "People liked Perfect Dark back on the N64. Let's bring that back" and announced it before actually considering what a new Perfect Dark would/should be.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if they greenlit the project thinking "People liked Perfect Dark back on the N64. Let's bring that back" and announced it before actually considering what a new Perfect Dark would/should be.
I could be wrong on this, but I believe this is the studio that was originally working on some Gears of War spinoff and then two years later they announced Perfect Dark, so I'm wondering what happened between the formation of the studio and their pivot to Perfect Dark that made them ditch Gears.
 
It's kinda funny how today arguably isn't even the worst day of 2024 for Xbox when it comes to PR. What an absolute nightmare of a year they're having.

I mean, it still fucking blows, and my heart goes out to everyone affected by Xbox's dumbassery, but I'll still take solace in laughing at the flailing megacorp.
 
Not surprised, but also this is another example for why games shouldn't be announced until they're in later stages of developement. Even if everything comes out like during that "miracle" Sony E3 people are just gonna hate you for not showing The Thing You Promised overshadowing any other cool projects
 
wasn't this their big attempt to form a AAA studio from scratch too?

It's clear that Xbox has a massive management issue atm.
 
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Not surprised, but also this is another example for why games shouldn't be announced until they're in later stages of developement. Even if everything comes out like during that "miracle" Sony E3 people are just gonna hate you for not showing The Thing You Promised overshadowing any other cool projects
While I agree in a general sense, announcing early lets developers recruit openly for the game. See Splatoon 3 or Bayonetta 3 as examples of this.
 
MS needs to clean house on their upper management

Like an entire decade of messing up games is wild
from what I understand, a big problem is their upper management kinda just ... isn't involved

Like, they've been there with the checkbook when a studio tells them they need a bigger budget, but they're apparently mostly just leaving studios to do their own thing without much of a guiding hand or overall vision coming from the top. In some instances the hands-off approach has worked (Obsidian and Double Fine seem to have done well enough under Microsoft so far) but in a lot of other cases it really hasn't (perhaps most glaringly with Redfall)
 
from what I understand, a big problem is their upper management kinda just ... isn't involved

Like, they've been there with the checkbook when a studio tells them they need a bigger budget, but they're apparently mostly just leaving studios to do their own thing without much of a guiding hand or overall vision coming from the top. In some instances the hands-off approach has worked (Obsidian and Double Fine seem to have done well enough under Microsoft so far) but in a lot of other cases it really hasn't (perhaps most glaringly with Redfall)
let's hope this ages well...
 
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(perhaps most glaringly with Redfall)
I don‘t think that Microsoft were the ones who even Greenlit that game.

They didn‘t even gave that studio a chance as much as they aren‘t responsible for the success of Hi-Fi Rush and then gave Tango the chance to do something new under Microsoft. They just let the studios doing their projects which where in the works anyway, a last money grab so to speak, until they can close it down. The only difference is that all this came probably sooner than even they themselves expected, but it shows now that Microsoft never really was interested in the survival of most of those studios. They just wanted the IPs.
 
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Sounds about right. Crystal Dynamics freeballing their development pipeline and MS just thoroughly not giving a shit about management probably led to this.
 
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What does "we don't know what we want to do with Perfect Dark" mean? It's Perfect Dark. It's a thing that people liked that already exists. Maybe start there. I dunno, call me a CEO. Must be crazy.

Xbox tagline about to be "Microsoft Xbox -- We don't know what we do, actually"
 
What does "we don't know what we want to do with Perfect Dark" mean? It's Perfect Dark. It's a thing that people liked that already exists. Maybe start there. I dunno, call me a CEO. Must be crazy.

Xbox tagline about to be "Microsoft Xbox -- We don't know what we do, actually"

IDK, that part makes more sense. Perfect Dark is basically a prequel to TimeSplitters, but some people seemed to remember it as a more spy like game.
 
Not that there was much info out there, but the game as pitched didn’t get me too excited as a huge fan of the original yet I was still excited and hopeful it’d be cool on its own terms. Hope they can turn it around, but five(?) years in and it sounding hopeless isn’t great news… :/
 
I just don't get the thinking around this franchise. GoldenEye was a huge hit. Its spiritual sequel sold less but was a hit with critics and fans. The Timesplitters franchise by part of the same dev team was a cult hit.

Then Perfect Dark Zero has almost no similarity to any of the above games except a few nods. It got panned by everybody.

Then much later a reboot is greenlit. And AGAIN it appears to have almost no similarity to the old hit games except a few nods.

Halo/Forza/Gears/CoD/Fallout/The Elder Scrolls/Doom have all generally retained their core formulas. But Perfect Dark absolutely MUST be reinvented every time?

Even Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts made a little sense, 3D platformers were seen as old news then.

If they're basing their design decisions on the Perfect Dark XBLA port not setting the world on fire, it's not the fault of the original - the online modes were painfully barebones...for one of the most option-filled FPSes ever made. 😣 If you could schedule a custom match with friends, the fun was there. Even the progenitor of matchmaking, Halo, ended up bringing back custom game browsers in The Master Chief Collection.
 
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It’s no surprise. They announced it like 5 years ago and we never heard anything good taking off from it.

All these vapor ware games will make Microsoft close more studios.
 
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Like, they've been there with the checkbook when a studio tells them they need a bigger budget, but they're apparently mostly just leaving studios to do their own thing without much of a guiding hand or overall vision coming from the top
You have to wonder how the preproduction process was for Perfect Dark. I certainly agree that these projects do not have a clear vision, and the people in charge don't know how to steer the ship. They let the crew do all the work, and take all the heat when they mess up.
 
Doesn't Xbox have a showcase next month

Maybe they should preface it with "today we're gonna announce some games that may or may not ever see the light of day..."
 
It’s a shame, this was one of the games from MS I was looking forward to seeing in the future. Doesn’t sound like bringing Crystal Dynamics in to help hasn’t made things any better.
 
What is even happening with Xbox right now?

Complete mismanagement from top to halfway bottom.

It's important that suits and decision makers understand the contexts and ways of the branch they're in, and it seems that a lot of those who are in charge of Xbox and everything don't do that.

Nintendo isn't perfect, far from it, but this shows how important a manager like Iwata was, who simply understood things, or at least how important it is to "train" upcoming ones properly, like Furukawa was.
 
Completely believable. This project always felt like they were trying to sail a ship while building it and the ship is also on fire.
 
At the risk of sounding dismissive of the development process: It's Perfect Dark. How hard can it be to scope out the project?

It's a futuristic spy thriller FPS that riffs on Goldeneye.

You have wide-linear levels with multiple objectives. Not exactly unprecedented for shooter games in this day and age.

You have gameplay that ranges from stealth to all out action. Again, not saying it's easy, but it's hardly an unsolved problem in today's industry.

You have guns and gadgets that provide interesting gameplay ideas and gimmicks, all riffing on fun sci fi concepts. Again: Nintendo somehow manages this on a seemingly per game basis. If EPD can come up with fun gameplay concepts for fucking paintball guns, I don't think it's exactly going too out there to think up some fun alternative modes for a machine gun or shotgun.

How can you not just look at everything the original game did right, look at how shooters are made now, and just develop the game using modern development pipelines but incorporating the stuff that made Perfect Dark unique?

Fucking indie devs and modders are managing to make their own spins on Time splitters and PD.
 
Completely believable. This project always felt like they were trying to sail a ship while building it and the ship is also on fire.

Don't forget them trying to extinguish the fire by throwing oil and dry wood blocks on it.
 
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At the risk of sounding dismissive of the development process: It's Perfect Dark. How hard can it be to scope out the project?

It's a futuristic spy thriller FPS that riffs on Goldeneye.

You have wide-linear levels with multiple objectives. Not exactly unprecedented for shooter games in this day and age.

You have gameplay that ranges from stealth to all out action. Again, not saying it's easy, but it's hardly an unsolved problem in today's industry.

You have guns and gadgets that provide interesting gameplay ideas and gimmicks, all riffing on fun sci fi concepts. Again: Nintendo somehow manages this on a seemingly per game basis. If EPD can come up with fun gameplay concepts for fucking paintball guns, I don't think it's exactly going too out there to think up some fun alternative modes for a machine gun or shotgun.

How can you not just look at everything the original game did right, look at how shooters are made now, and just develop the game using modern development pipelines but incorporating the stuff that made Perfect Dark unique?

Fucking indie devs and modders are managing to make their own spins on Time splitters and PD.
I think the problem was the ambition to push it to something bigger. The it has nostalgia, but just going by the numbers would not yield a system seller. But ambition is dangerous in development.
 
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Between this and the latest studio closures it's appalling that Spencer is a) still in charge of Xbox after a decade and b) still largely uncriticised by media outlets, as if he hasn't overseen everything; the failure to deliver consistent software, the failure to properly support their own development studios, studio mergers and closures, mass layoffs, stalling GamePass subscriptions, falling hardware sales, dangerous large-scale acquisitions, failed attempts at reviving old (Perfect Dark) or core (Halo) IP.

And the worst thing is it'll be the ordinary staff who continue to pay the price of this.
 
At the risk of sounding dismissive of the development process: It's Perfect Dark. How hard can it be to scope out the project?

It's a futuristic spy thriller FPS that riffs on Goldeneye.

You have wide-linear levels with multiple objectives. Not exactly unprecedented for shooter games in this day and age.

You have gameplay that ranges from stealth to all out action. Again, not saying it's easy, but it's hardly an unsolved problem in today's industry.

You have guns and gadgets that provide interesting gameplay ideas and gimmicks, all riffing on fun sci fi concepts. Again: Nintendo somehow manages this on a seemingly per game basis. If EPD can come up with fun gameplay concepts for fucking paintball guns, I don't think it's exactly going too out there to think up some fun alternative modes for a machine gun or shotgun.

How can you not just look at everything the original game did right, look at how shooters are made now, and just develop the game using modern development pipelines but incorporating the stuff that made Perfect Dark unique?

Fucking indie devs and modders are managing to make their own spins on Time splitters and PD.
My bets are

a) They were aiming for something way bigger in scope

b) They were rebooting the whole thing, and aimed for something different

c) Microsoft being Microsoft with PD once again.

No matter how simple the game is, in the wrong hands it can, and it will, go awry



Either someone at the dev team straightens this, or it's going to be a massive clusterfuck.
 
This is crazy, this should have been such an easy win for them. That IGN article is fascinating.

Studio leadership was fairly clear from early on that The Initiative’s Perfect Dark would see a balance of combat and espionage elements that would ideally feel like playing through a James Bond or Mission: Impossible film – the developers just had to figure out how to translate those memorable movie moments into video game format.

But while these core ideas remained roughly consistent throughout Perfect Dark’s development, exactly what the player would be doing to express them kept changing as ideas were pitched, prototyped, and then scrapped for something completely different over and over again. This process was expected at first, as a fairly normal component of game development. But as Perfect Dark moved into its second and third year, sources tell us that this process began to drag on much longer than expected, as leadership’s refusal to commit to any specific ideas or shape for the game began to frustrate both teams.
Everything here sounds wrong. "Playing through a film" is a garbage game design concept that would never come from an established game designer. It has no relevance to anything in the modern game industry. It sounds like a game pitch from 2005. Look, you have other successful spy games to crib from, you have a successful gameplay heritage from Perfect Dark 64... the game design pitch should relate entirely to that. Something concrete, that everyone involved in modern gaming immediately understands.

Like
-The game is a first person shooting game with minor stealth and dialogue interactions set in a near-future sci-fi world
-In later levels Joanna receives or can obtain a unique sci-fi spy gadget with gameplay effects - this is the unique gameplay hook. Can be mind-control, xray specs, time reversal... possibilities are endless. Let your gameplay and level designers design.
-Levels are broadly open and have multiple objectives which increase with difficulty, but some levels will be more open-linear and combat focused
-Level design should be similar in design to Hitman: World of Assassination, but does not necessarily need to have that level of complexity in NPC routines, but rather the number of different routes to an objective and "stylish sense of place" should be the focus
-Online interactions will be mostly based around daily leaderboard runs to complete unique objectives at high difficulties to unlock skins or weapons etc because there is no sense in trying to compete with the big beasts of online shooters (like Apex or Fortnite) with a game like this.

Or, to give you the above in one sentence: A first-person spy game with level design and objectives similar to Hitman: World of Assassination but with unique sci-fi gadgets and weapons. There. Every hardcore gamer would immediately know what they're getting with that.

Okay, actually developing that is harder than it sounds, but the concept? 3 years to figure something out? Come on, man.

Also, unpopular opinion but once the team started bailing in 2021 (after three years of no progress) and there was so little top talent left that some lower level workers did nothing for 9 months - that was the point to pull the plug. There's no coming back from a team self-imploding like that. Even the people you hire at that point probably aren't going to be good enough to turn it around because top talent will avoid what is known as a trashfire.

It all sounds like there's no one guy saying "Do this like this." It's endless managers who don't have the authority to just make a call and go with something. Teams need a single creative leader. Seems like too many of these MS studios just don't have one.
 
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My bets are

a) They were aiming for something way bigger in scope

b) They were rebooting the whole thing, and aimed for something different

c) Microsoft being Microsoft with PD once again.

Not to mention they were trying to make it AAAA, whatever that means. That didn't turn out well for the Callisto Protocol and doesn't seem to be turning out well here either.
 
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This is crazy, this should have been such an easy win for them. That IGN article is fascinating.


Everything here sounds wrong. "Playing through a film" is a garbage game design concept that would never come from an established game designer. It has no relevance to anything in the modern game industry. It sounds like a game pitch from 2005. Look, you have other successful spy games to crib from, you have a successful gameplay heritage from Perfect Dark 64... the game design pitch should relate entirely to that. Something concrete, that everyone involved in modern gaming immediately understands.

Like
-The game is a first person shooting game with minor stealth and dialogue interactions set in a near-future sci-fi world
-In later levels Joanna receives or can obtain a unique sci-fi spy gadget with gameplay effects - this is the unique gameplay hook. Can be mind-control, xray specs, time reversal... possibilities are endless. Let your gameplay and level designers design.
-Levels are broadly open and have multiple objectives which increase with difficulty, but some levels will be more open-linear and combat focused
-Level design should be similar in design to Hitman: World of Assassination, but does not necessarily need to have that level of complexity in NPC routines, but rather the number of different routes to an objective and "stylish sense of place" should be the focus
-Online interactions will be mostly based around daily leaderboard runs to complete unique objectives at high difficulties to unlock skins or weapons etc because there is no sense in trying to compete with the big beasts of online shooters (like Apex or Fortnite) with a game like this.

Or, to give you the above in one sentence: A first-person spy game with level design and objectives similar to Hitman: World of Assassination but with unique sci-fi gadgets and weapons. There. Every hardcore gamer would immediately know what they're getting with that.

Okay, actually developing that is harder than it sounds, but the concept? 3 years to figure something out? Come on, man.

Also, unpopular opinion but once the team started bailing in 2021 (after three years of no progress) and there was so little top talent left that some lower level workers did nothing for 9 months - that was the point to pull the plug. There's no coming back from a team self-imploding like that. Even the people you hire at that point probably aren't going to be good enough to turn it around because top talent will avoid what is known as a trashfire.

It all sounds like there's no one guy saying "Do this like this." It's endless managers who don't have the authority to just make a call and go with something. Teams need a single creative leader. Seems like too many of these MS studios just don't have one.

Literally none of what you described has anything to do with Perfect Dark as an IP which is probably the problem this game has run into.

Perfect Dark is a very stupid game thematically that is based around elite for its time tech and very fun multiplayer deathmatch. Multiplayer deathmatch has largely died outside of Call of Duty so if you're reviving Perfect Dark, you're either making a game nothing like Perfect Dark, or you're betting that you can revive very old-school FPS multiplayer by yourself.
 


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