Discussion Is Wario Nintendo's only real "antihero" mascot/lead/main character?

[Mekanos]

Face it, Nintendo's heroes are a bunch of do gooder dweebs who save princesses and do nothing wrong. We need a break from all the monotony. We need...

Wario.

While the WarioWare games are Wario's main claim to fame nowadays, I do think something that has been lost with the lack of recent Wario Land games. Wario has always been Nintendo's bad boy. He does what he does for him, nobody else.

Having a platformer series motivated by one purple plumber's ego and greed stands out from other Nintendo games and gives it a character of its own. Maybe there's some really obscure Nintendo game I'm not thinking of, but when I look at the Smash Ultimate roster:

Except for like, maybe Falco, all of Nintendo's "good guys" are straight laced squares. We need the edge back. Greed is good!

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

They have the NSO subscriptions as greed representatives now, so Wario has been phased out.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Wolf is there! Tingle had some games of his own too. But yeah, I suppose it's not too surprising that the biggest Nintendo anti hero is the Mario one.

 

[Chalphy]

Captain Falcon was intended to be more of an anti-hero than a straight up heroic figure. Of course over the years they pivoted towards him being more heroic.

I would also argue that Byleth straddles the line between hero and anti-hero. Especially with their Three Hopes appearance being much more mercenary than in Three Houses.

 

[Clov]

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

Wario is War Mario

 

[Mekanos]

Wario is War Mario

Is there a Death, Famine and Conquest Mario?

 

[Aurc]

Wario doesn't do what Wario does for Wario. Wario does what Wario does because Wario is Wario.

I've been waiting for a Wario Land on Switch. In the meantime, I backed ANTONBLAST (a Wario-like) on Kickstarter, so I'm looking forward to that in the future.

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

Is there a Death, Famine and Conquest Mario?

Deathrio, Stravio, Conquio

 

[DecoReturns]

Ike hates being called a Hero. I mean he is. But he hates it lol

Wolf is probably the next closet on there since he helps sometimes in the game

 

[boodream]

I really miss Wario Land a lot,

 

[Mekanos]

Wario doesn't do what Wario does for Wario. Wario does what Wario does because Wario is Wario.

I've been waiting for a Wario Land on Switch. In the meantime, I backed ANTONBLAST (a Wario-like) on Kickstarter, so I'm looking forward to that in the future.

Yeah, both this and Pizza Tower got me reflecting on Wario Land and why it was so appealing back in the day. Like being a 90s kid, a Nintendo platformer with Capital A Attitude really stood out back then. Sure the WarioWare games are fun and bring some of that personality and charm back, but I'll always like platformers more than the microgame setup.

 

[N 2 Deep]

Uhhhh

ever heard of Boshi?

 

[Rooster]

And you can bet your fucking ass they'd never allow Wario to be made today

 

[Gabev]

I remember the commercial for WL 4 and being surprised that it was even allowed to be made.




Edit: I also want to say that I remember an ad for Wario Land 4 with the tagline tis the season to be greedy.

 

[GamerJM]

Bowser in the Mario RPGs. Dark Pit from KIU as well. Those are the two that come to mind looking at that roster at least.

 

[Gartooth]

Yeah Wario stands out for being the only notable anti-hero as the lead character in a Nintendo franchise. Every other main character is a pretty clear hero.

There are some Nintendo characters who also exist as anti-heroes like Meta-Knight, King Dedede, and Wolf but they've never been the star of their own game.

 

[Mekanos]

Yeah Wario stands out for being the only notable anti-hero as the lead character in a Nintendo franchise. Every other main character is a pretty clear hero.

There are some Nintendo characters who also exist as anti-heroes like Meta-Knight, King Dedede, and Wolf but they've never been the star of their own game.

Yeah, you sometimes have those antiheroes as supporting characters, but almost never as a mascot. And obviously I get why, but it's still pretty rare to this day to play a platformer game with an unapologetic antihero with less-than-noble goals and that is part of what made the WL series so fun.

 

[TreIII]

I'd honestly say DK could count too, albeit more as a "force of nature" with an obvious threshold, a la kaiju.

The fact that his conflicts often have him against warmongering, industrialized crocodiles, hivemind invader tikis, viking-like sea animal tribes and even other Kongs? It all comes from a place of either him being wronged in some way (re: they took his stuff, invaded his turf, stuffed his buddy in a barrel, etc.), and/or because he is asserting his dominance.

 

[Yzz]

Might sound like a joke and, but I feel like the Pikmin games question the morality of Olimar from time to time. In the first game he exhibits a little bit of greed, but in the third one he gets consumed by it.

Although I believe this is only in the localized script, Fire Emblem's Ephraim and Hector are characterized as being short-tempered and having a 'bad boy' attitude (Hector literally says he loves violence). There's also Micaiah who, without spoiling too much, has something of a dark side.

Also, didn't Nintendo made a GBA game about Napoleon? (well I guess that's a straight up villain lol)

 

[Weiss]

wah

 

[Terrell]

Olimar and the rest of the folks from the planets Hocotate and Koppai from Pikmin. They're literally pillaging another planet for their own survival at best or performing resource extraction for terrible capitalist reasons at worst, and just so happen to find helpfully subservient plant-minions to help them do it. These are not heroes, they are begrudging and/or intentional colonizers.

You're welcome.

 

[Mekanos]

wah

Wario Land 3 > Your Fave

So true

Olimar and the rest of the folks from the planets Hocotate and Koppai from Pikmin. They're literally pillaging another planet for their own survival at best or performing resource extraction for terrible capitalist reasons at worst, and just so happen to find helpfully subservient plant-minions to help them do it. These are not heroes, they are begrudging and/or intentional colonizers.

You're welcome.

Isn't Louie revealed to be a bad guy or something in Pikmin 3 too? I haven't played it.

I'd honestly say DK could count too, albeit more as a "force of nature" with an obvious threshold, a la kaiju.

The fact that his conflicts often have him against warmongering, industrialized crocodiles, hivemind invader tikis, viking-like sea animal tribes and even other Kongs? It all comes from a place of either him being wronged in some way (re: they took his stuff, invaded his turf, stuffed his buddy in a barrel, etc.), and/or because he is asserting his dominance.

I think at worst DK is neutral than someone with genuine vices or a dark side. He's had a pretty inconsistent characterization over the years, but in the DKC games he usually is laid back and friendly and fights mostly to defend himself or his island/friends/family.

 

[MondoMega]

Isn't Louie revealed to be a bad guy or something in Pikmin 3 too? I haven't played it.

That already happens in 2; he commands the final boss and in the bonus completion video its revealed that he was the cause of the missing cargo that gave Hocotate Freight massive debt (and thus the cause of the events of the game in general).

 

[Terrell]

Isn't Louie revealed to be a bad guy or something in Pikmin 3 too? I haven't played it.

He's the actual reason the Hocotate Freight Company is in debt the first time (he ate an entire carrot shipment) and, mistaking a rescue for a kidnapping, steals all the juice from the Koppai crew and runs off. So more of just a garden-variety idiot and arsehole.
But even the Koppai folks aren't all great. Brittany in particular hates one of her fellow captains and rations their juice supply so she always gets more than the other 2.

 

[meatbag]

As someone who has not played a Pikmin game I am enjoying all the juicy Pikmin lore.

For the topic itself, keep it on the down low but I heard that Yoshi rascal has been evading taxes

 

[PixelKnight]

We need more games starring Piranha Plant.

 

[winstein]

Something that strikes me about Wario is how his games have a tendency to end badly for the hero even if you beat the game. You have the WarioWare games where he has a track record of being punished for his misdeeds like hogging all the money for himself in the first WarioWare game, or how in Wario Land: Shake It, he ultimately didn't get the prize. And then you have the games with multiple endings where Wario can basically get a paltry reward for all his efforts like how in Wario World, there's an ending where Wario ended up in a forest with nothing more than a tent and a throne to sit in the dark of the woods.

In fact, Wario Land 3 is the only Wario game to my knowledge where the ending is unquestionably good for Wario, where not only did he defeated the villain and rescue the victims of the villain's curse, he also gets the reward without any price to pay for it.

I guess in this way, being an antihero meant that something bad should happen to the hero, and I guess that might be something Nintendo is generally not fond of doing.

Thank you for reading.

 

[TreIII]

I think at worst DK is neutral than someone with genuine vices or a dark side. He's had a pretty inconsistent characterization over the years, but in the DKC games he usually is laid back and friendly and fights mostly to defend himself or his island/friends/family.

Again, I utilize the "Kaiju" comparison because I think it's apt. Donkey Kong will cause a lot of casual destruction as he goes on a tear (with even the MOON being possible collateral), but that's only because somebody or something wronged him/his family/his home, or got in his way, first. Otherwise, yes, he is pretty chill.

Not unlike how Godzilla has been characterized in various films, and most would consider those depictions of Goji to be an "anti-hero", too.

 

[Lord Azrael]

Does DK count if he straight up started as a villain

I mean technically it was Cranky but the game was still called Donkey Kong

 

[AtomicZach]

Bowser in the Mario RPGs. Dark Pit from KIU as well. Those are the two that come to mind looking at that roster at least.

If one were to give Dark Pit coffee as black as his soul, we'd be forced to give him a glass of milk. Dude's a edgy dork that practices coordinated moves in the mirror

Isn't Louie revealed to be a bad guy or something in Pikmin 3 too? I haven't played it.

Louie in the 3rd game is a jerk, but to be fair both previous captains in that game are a jerk.

Spoiler

Louie in that game is the most antagonistic towards the player. When you rescue, that same night, he steals all your food (and Cpatain Charlie's rubber ducky) and makes off into the night, forcing you to find some fruit face otherwise you will get a game over that night. However, in his secret video log, it's discovered that Louie genuinely didn't know what was going on and thought he was being kidnapped. That being said, once you do rescue him a second time (because he get's captured like 5 minutes after escaping) he is still kind of a jerk and demands food from a group of explorers from a planet dying from starvation.

Meanwhile, Captain Olimar has become so treasure obsessed that he kind of forgets everything else. Part of why Louie is so jerky in this game is that Olimar essentially has been mistreating the dude, being hypocritical, caring about his needs and supplies over Louie, etc. One exploration log even has Olimar tell Louie that they need to conserve water...only to immediately drain the canteen they had for the day. He's also become neglectful over his wife and kids, with his duaghter even asking if he lives there anymore. Both are kind of obsessed over their interest (Olimar = Treasure and Louie = Food) that they kind of do act like Wario in that regard.

The president also is a jerk but he was already a greedy capitalistic boss so...

As for anti-heroes...Batallian Wars tend to have just straight up warmongers as the main characters. Batalian Wars 1 places the Western Frontier as the "main" hero faction and they're a bunch of American pastiche who in the intro demand their soldiers do "training runs" "...with live ammunition of course". They really only get outplaced as bad guys because the main bad guys are just straight up Nazi vampires.

 

[Gartooth]

Donkey Kong I think is hard to call an anti-hero because he either is unquestionably the hero of the games he's the main character in like DKC or he's the villain of games like DK94. I can't really think of a game where DK is portrayed as an anti-hero or rival character to a different protagonist while not being the big bad.

Wario is much more clear of an anti-hero even in the games where he's the main character. In WarioWare it's common for Wario to be kind of a "final boss" or to even try and cheat his friends for his own personal greed. Or in Wario Land if he does help others and save the day it was as a by-product for defeating a bigger evil that stood in the way of his treasure. (WL3, WL4, Shake It)