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Discussion Is Donkey Kong an iconic Mario villain?

What do you think?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 41.5%

  • No

    Votes: 38 58.5%
  • Total voters
    65
winstein

winstein

Bob-omb
Donkey-Kong-POSTER-Nintendo-1981-Video-Arcade-Game.jpg

Regardless of what you think Mario was called back in 1981, it can be agreed that his first game is born in an arcade and his first villain is the titular Donkey Kong. That game turned out to be a success and gave the developers a character that they could use where they see fit. The success of the game made Donkey Kong a household name, which is helped because the game is named after the villain rather than the hero, and in some cases, the hero Mario was overshadowed by the villain.

That is not to say that Mario was obscure, because he managed to still be popular, since he's still the hero after all. In fact, he's gotten more games beyond Donkey Kong and I daresay he's more flexible as a hero, which is why he's gone on to have a two-player game Mario Bros. where he invites his brother Luigi into the video game business, and the success of that game gave rise to Super Mario Bros. The overnight success of Super Mario Bros. became the basis of which Mario's universe is based on, and as such, the villain Bowser became Mario's primary villain as a result.

It would be a while when Donkey Kong returned to the mainstream after a few bouts of villainy, such as invading a greenhouse in Donkey Kong 3 and returning to kidnap Pauline again in the Game Boy's Donkey Kong game. After that, Donkey Kong was reinvented as a new character, and this version is essentially a hero and that's how he's normally viewed ever since. But then, that's not always the case...

1200px-Minismario.jpg

That's right: even the modern Donkey Kong plays villain too! Though it's only restricted to Mario vs. Donkey Kong more or less, Nintendo saw fit to return Donkey Kong to the villainous roots where Mario must face off against this version of Donkey Kong as he kidnaps Pauline and steals toys. But perhaps his deeds aren't as severe as Bowser, who's managed to maintain a record of not only kidnapping Peach but also causing trouble where he goes (like stealing wands from the kings in several kingdoms).

Donkey Kong: he's certainly an iconic character, and he's also a villain before. But the question now is: is Donkey Kong an iconic Mario villain? In terms of villains, Bowser took a lot of spotlight that none of them got to shine too bright, so for example, RPG villains hardly shine much (especially the ones in Mario & Luigi, where Bowser pretty much steal a spot in all games). But Donkey Kong's also pretty well known and is Mario's first ever villain. What do you think?

Thank you for reading.
 
no

maybe if you're 50 years old he's a villain to you but most of his prominent roles after the arcade game are as protagonist or side character

there's also an entire movie establishing his relation to mario as that of a friendly rival, which every kid ever has been and will be exposed to
 
Arcade Donkey Kong is arguably one of the most iconic games in Nintendo's catalogue. Of course DK would be an iconic Mario villain, even if he doesn't play that role these days.
 
Chalphy said:
Arcade Donkey Kong is arguably one of the most iconic games in Nintendo's catalogue. Of course DK would be an iconic Mario villain, even if he doesn't play that role these days.
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Right. At this point we've spent way more time with the man Anakin Skywalker as a mostly-good-guy, but that doesn't stop Darth Vader from being an iconic villain.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Right. At this point we've spent way more time with the man Anakin Skywalker as a mostly-good-guy, but that doesn't stop Darth Vader from being an iconic villain.
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I mean, it's arguable Anakin is a good guy in any movie other than Phantom Meance, and even there the poster itself is like "this guy is bad news." I know Clone Wars exists, but even that foreshadows that he's ultimately gonna turn.

He's not a villain turned hero like Donkey Kong or Vegeta, to the point that it erases the original villainous past. He's a villain given a tragic backstory where the slide into villainy is inevitable.
 
DK is not iconic as a Mario villain at all really.

Same deal with King Dedede or Meta Knight. Or many other examples. At the absolute most, they're some level of rivals. Yes, they started out as villains in their initial appearances, but there's been decades of content since where that's not the case and they've long since supplanted whatever the very first initial appearance was.
 
Yeah, I've always seen it as the bad guy, even in DK COuntry iteration I never saw him as someone trying to save the island because a noble cause, rather than "there is only space for one asshole here, and that me K. Rool!"
 
He's an iconic character of the Mario franchise, who's been the villain in an iconic early Mario game, a GameBoy classic and a bunch of sequels of questionable relevance.

Likewise, Wario is an iconic character and the villain of one Mario game.

Bowser is both an iconic character and a (the) iconic villain.
 
Donkey Kong is an iconic character, but to anyone born in the past thirty years, he's a rival to Mario at most. Not even always that, he played the hero in Mario Party for years opposite Bowser.

Bowser is Mario's villain, and if you ask for more, people will bring up Wart, Tatanga, or occasionally some of the RPG villains. Nobody says Donkey Kong unless they're trying to be clever.
 
His debut role was as the villain so he’ll always have that history and he was iconic back then so yes. Someone even made a song about him.

 
Law said:
I don't believe the general audience associates DK as a Mario villain, no.
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Yeah I could be wrong, but I feel like most associate him as the goofy gorilla side character you play in Smash and Mario Kart, not some villain.
 
I honestly never liked how they portrayed DK in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games, they said it portrays a "rivaliry" between the 2 characters, but the games are mostly just DK being an asshole and completely out of character next to how the Rare games portayed him. The Mario movie made a much better job with the "rivaliry"
 
I would say that Mario is an iconic Donkey Kong villain, as seen in "Donkey Kong Jr".
 
To an extent, I'd say so, but I don't think that's the impression most nowadays have. Arcade Donkey Kong is a villain outside of DK Jr. So is DK '94 Donkey Kong (where DK Jr. becomes a one-time villain - how the tables have turned). But modern DK is a protagonist in his own right with a long running franchise of his own, and most of the appearances in current Mario games don't pin him as a villain. Even in the subseries that does, Mario Vs. Donkey Kong, half of the time DK being the villain is subverted (Pauline engineering the system to test the Mini Mario toys, DK working alongside Mario and Pauline, and Pauline and DK getting Mario to go to a surprise party). So he's an iconic character, but not necessarily for his villainy.

...this is also ignoring the whole "Arcade DK is Cranky Kong" thing, which pushes modern DK's reputation further away from DK's most iconic villain roles.
 
Superstarxalien said:
maybe if you're 50 years old he's a villain to you but most of his prominent roles after the arcade game are as protagonist or side character
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Djehuty said:
If you’re old as hell yeah.
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It doesn't have to be just one or the other. And regardless of how old it is I'd be pretty surprised if most people weren't still somewhat familiar with the original Donkey Kong. It's like Pong, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, one of those things even a non-gaming audience knows about.
 
GenOneCam said:
Donkey Kong is iconic. Donkey Kong was a Mario villain. Donkey Kong is not an iconic Mario villain.
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He is a Mario villain and he is iconic, so he is both. He was also a temporary villain in the Mario Movie which came out this year and is the most successful video game movie of all time, presumably referencing his iconic role as the villain of several Mario games.
 
Brock Reiher said:
He is a Mario villain and he is iconic, so he is both. He was also a temporary villain in the Mario Movie which came out this year and is the most successful video game movie of all time, presumably referencing his iconic role as the villain of several Mario games.
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no. being an iconic Mario villain implies that you are iconic for being a Mario villain. being both iconic and a Mario villain doesn't qualify. Bowser is an iconic Mario villain.
 
GenOneCam said:
no. being an iconic Mario villain implies that you are iconic for being a Mario villain. being both iconic and a Mario villain doesn't qualify. Bowser is an iconic Mario villain.
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It doesn't, but I think he is that too, again referencing his role in the Mario movie.

Hocot8 said:
a good reminder that we shouldn't be treating an opinion as fact and saying shit like it's inarguable lmao
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What do you think his role was in the Donkey Kong arcade game if you want to argue it?
 
0
Aren’t they both just occasionally antagonists or anti-heroes to each other at this point, even if they aren’t the ‘main’ villain?

Personally the one I played the most was Donkey Kong ‘94 on the GB, where DK and DKJ are definitely the villains. But this was after Mario Kart on the SNES which saw the start of DK and Bowser and the rest of the gang all really being treated as part of the main cast alongside Mario and co, and after DKJ where Mario was the villain. Even stuff like Wreck-It Ralph is based on the older arcade games, so it’s not just people who were playing games in the early 80s who have that memory of it, DKs initial persona as a titanic enemy for Mario is iconic and stretches beyond 50-somethings, even if he’s been rounded out a lot over the decades since in the DKC games etc as a major protagonist in his own right. At this point I’d say he’s a strong part of Nintendo’s ‘Mario’ cast in general, and clearly not the main villain or anything, but I do like it when the old rivalry gets a nod now and then
 
Brock Reiher said:
He is a Mario villain and he is iconic, so he is both. He was also a temporary villain in the Mario Movie which came out this year and is the most successful video game movie of all time, presumably referencing his iconic role as the villain of several Mario games.
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He is not a "temporary villain" in the Mario Movie. His role in the movie was never that of a villain. Being a rival doesn't make him a villain.
 
There's no reasonable way to describe donkey Kong's role in the mario movie as a villain. They have what is basically a sparring match and then are unequivocally allied and spends more time helping mario than basically any other character for the rest of the film.
 
Hauke_von_Arding said:
He is not a "temporary villain" in the Mario Movie. His role in the movie was never that of a villain. Being a rival doesn't make him a villain.
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If I find a wiki list titled "Mario villains", Donkey Kong is on it. And chances are he's the most iconic character on that list or at least second most iconic.

He's a villain in the arcade game.
 
Brock Reiher said:
If I find a wiki list titled "Mario villains", Donkey Kong is on it. And chances are he's the most iconic character on that list or at least second most iconic.

He's a villain in the arcade game.
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You mean the game that came out over 40 years ago? My grandparents were teens back then. I am pretty sure most people today would associate DK with the gamecube game that came with bongos.
 
GenOneCam said:
no. being an iconic Mario villain implies that you are iconic for being a Mario villain. being both iconic and a Mario villain doesn't qualify. Bowser is an iconic Mario villain.
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I think it's hard to come up with a lot of video game images more iconic than the first screen of arcade Donkey Kong.
 
GenOneCam said:
You mean the game that came out over 40 years ago? My grandparents were teens back then. I am pretty sure most people today would associate DK with the gamecube game that came with bongos.
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Yes, one of the most iconic video games ever made. Like Pac-Man or Space Invaders. Donkey Kong was such an iconic villain he got his own series where he's a hero.
 
GenOneCam said:
You mean the game that came out over 40 years ago? My grandparents were teens back then. I am pretty sure most people today would associate DK with the gamecube game that came with bongos.
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Calling Arcade Donkey Kong obscure is like calling Pac-Man obscure.
 
GenOneCam said:
Ive been pretty involved in video games as a hobby for as long as I can remember and I don't think I know what you are talking about.
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I mean while Brock is being arrogant this and your previous post are pretty disingenuous lol. I mean come on.
 
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I think a lot of people are taking this as DK not being iconic.

DK is an iconic character, he just isn't a villain anymore, hasn't been since before most of us have been born really.
 
Lucifer said:
I think a lot of people are taking this as DK not being iconic.

DK is an iconic character, he just isn't a villain anymore, hasn't been since before most of us have been born really.
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He can be both, especially since the arcade game is still such a cultural touchstone. The last Mario vs Donkey Kong was on Wii U
 
Yes and no? Donkey Kong is the protagonist of the Country series, and he's the hero in those games. He was also the lucky charm in the Hudson Mario Party games, which cemented him as a very nice guy in my view while growing up. He's also on the good side in Yoshi's Island DS.

In fact, I remember I got weirded out by seeing him getting portrayed as the villain in Mario vs. Donkey 2. I didn't really know he started out as Mario's enemy until a few years later.
 
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