Discussion In March 2005, 5 Out of 10 Of EGM’s Most Overrated Games Were Rareware Games

[Krvavi Abadas]

to be fair, Shenmue has probably gotten it worse despite the lower ranking. the G4 series "Filter" called it the 2nd worst game ever made at one point.


they also said it was the 3rd best Dreamcast game ever made, so make of that what you will.

 

[SammyJ9]

Any list of ‘most overrated games’ that has FF9, Banjo Kazooie, and Donkey Kong Country on it is completely ridiculous to me.

 

[Dizzle]

I feel like I've been cast back in time, forced to relive the braindead conversations of the past, much like in the overrated video game Chrono Trigger.

 

[WonderLuigi]

for what it's worth, every game I listed is like a 5/10 - 7/10, and the list is ordered by how overrated not by just their quality (for example, MGS1 is probably the best game on that list). I can't think of many acclaimed games that I just straight up hate.

For Okami, I simply thought it was kind of dull a lot of the times. I didn't necessarily mind the relaxed pacing or the emphasis on storytelling, that was kinda cool, but I did mind how linear and simple the dungeons were, how combat felt weirdly unintuitive since a lot of the times you need a specific brush stroke to kill certain enemies as the game goes on, etc etc. Combat pacing in general is pretty bad later on because how it halts the game in a way it really doesn't in 3D Zeldas, both because of the brush strokes but also because of the way it closes you of from the field. I find that it's a game that ironically has a lot of the flaws people hate Aonuma Zelda's for, even worse versions of them, despite it's claim to fame being that it was basically the best Zelda game of the 2000's. I played it before I was even that into Zelda and even at the time I was like this is just a worse Zelda. It sucks because some ideas of the game are kind of interesting but also act like a double edged sword - like how the game basically repeats the same plot three times, where each version of the plot is better than the last, but by the end its so repetitive that you just wished the game would finish. It gets especially ridiculous once you're doing the Oorochi fight for the fifth time.

Also, despite the fact that the Switch version is often heralded as the second best if not the best way to control the game, the motion controls for the game are weirdly inconsistent. Some parts just require too much specificity to be done easily with motion, so they're easier in handheld, but most of the game is way better with motion controls than touch controls, so you're just left with a terrible middle ground. I'm actually surprised this doesn't come up more in discussions about the game since literally the first brush segment has tons of people talking about how hard it is to do with split joycons, yet it's still considered one of the best uses of motion control ....

I completely agree with you on everything you posted! The game just took me for a ride I didn't want to end so the flaws weren't bothering me. I thought it was even funny to fight Orochi for the millionth time

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I feel like I've been cast back in time, forced to relive the braindead conversations of the past, much like in the overrated video game Chrono Trigger.

I would consider Chrono Trigger to be an overrated game from a gameplay mechanic design standpoint, in my opinion he didn't create any edgy and interesting gameplay mechanics.Maybe it's because I'm very young, so I simply can't understand why is so critically acclaimed, in my opinion it's completely inferior to ALTTP

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I completely agree with you on everything you posted! The game just took me for a ride I didn't want to end so the flaws weren't bothering me. I thought it was even funny to fight Orochi for the millionth time

And that's completely fine! It just sounded like you were asking for an explanation, but I get why people like Okami. Maybe i'll try it again someday and like it more! I still liked it overall and i'm glad I played it.

 

[WonderLuigi]

And that's completely fine! It just sounded like you were asking for an explanation, but I get why people like Okami. Maybe i'll try it again someday and like it more! I still liked it overall and i'm glad I played it.

Oh I was asking for an explanation! I like your opinions on games

 

[Yamanoi]

It has a 86% rating on Metacritic and had 95% on GameRankings until december 2019. Not to mention it was highly reviewed when originally came out in 2000. So yes, it's quite influential in the genre.

But it is amongst the best FPS’ of all-time. In fact, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe it is still the highest reviewed FPS of all-time.

Not sure I understand the hate for the game here anyway. What is so wrong about Perfect Dark in your eyes? Genuinely curious.

I'm sorry but games like Doom and System Shock from back then are actually in the conversation for best FPS of all time, and worth playing today, not Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark is barely worth playing even with nostalgia taken into account. I could maybe let you say that for Rise of the Triad with how influential it was, and even that was not worth playing until we got a remaster. You can like Perfect Dark, I'm not trying to say anything otherwise or take that away from you. It isn't anywhere "amongst the best FPS' of all time".

I don't care what rating it had from back then. Even Grand Theft Auto IV or Bioshock Infinite have very high ratings. Do you think Bioshock Infinite is influential for anything other than being a racist piece of poop people make fun of today?

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I'm sorry but games like Doom and System Shock from back then are actually in the conversation for best FPS of all time, and worth playing today, not Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark is barely worth playing even with nostalgia taken into account. I could maybe let you say that for Rise of the Triad with how influential it was, and even that was not worth playing until we got a remaster. You can like Perfect Dark, I'm not trying to say anything otherwise or take that away from you. It isn't anywhere "amongst the best FPS' of all time".

I don't care what rating it had from back then. Even Grand Theft Auto IV or Bioshock Infinite have very high ratings. Do you think Bioshock Infinite is influential for anything other than being a racist piece of poop people make fun of today?

only one way for me to take a stance on this; what's Yamanoi's thoughts on the OG Halo trilogy? Half Life?

 

[Mekanos]

I would consider Chrono Trigger to be an overrated game from a gameplay mechanic design standpoint, in my opinion he didn't create any edgy and interesting gameplay mechanics.Maybe it's because I'm very young, so I simply can't understand why is so critically acclaimed, in my opinion it's completely inferior to ALTTP

I think the main things people like about CT are the music, Toriyama artwork, snappy battle system, and rapid fire pacing. I dislike the term “overrated” so I’m not gonna use it, I think CT is a very good game, but it’s never personally been that high on my list of favorite RPGs.

That said I wouldn’t really compare it to LTTP, despite being isometric adventure games on the SNES they are pretty different overall.

 

[Yamanoi]

only one way for me to take a stance on this; what's Yamanoi's thoughts on the OG Halo trilogy? Half Life?

Halo trilogy in Master Chief Collection is worth experiencing. The games are important as well beyond being worth experiencing.

Half Life is very important as well, but I do not have as much fun replaying it as games like System Shock.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

Halo trilogy in Master Chief Collection is worth experiencing. The games are important as well beyond being worth experiencing.

Half Life is very important as well, but I do not have as much fun replaying it as games like System Shock.

Great takes! I love the Halo trilogy and like Hald Life even if it's a bit too clunky.

Do you know if the System Shock remake is good or is it better to just go with the original? I want to play it after experiencing Prey earlier this year

 

[MinxyEMF]

2. Donkey Kong Country

Super Metroid is a fantastic game. Pretty graphics, a great soundtrack, and gameplay-wise it's the one of the standards against which Metroidvanias are judged to this day, thirty years later. And yet even so, if you put it side-by-side with Donkey Kong Country, it looks and sounds half a decade older.

There were six months between the two games. One of them was made first-party by Nintendo R&D1, the great minds behind the Game Boy and most of Nintendo's pre-NES successes. The other was made by several Brits in a barn in a village with a population of roughly 800, whose previous credits included work on the bad Nightmare on Elm Street game for the NES and the bad Who Framed Roger Rabbit game for the NES. Guess which one was which.

In 2005 SNES games were old, not yet retro, so on some level DKC's inclusion on the list doesn't surprise me. But it was a groundbreaking game that set a new standard for platformers and was by some accounts the main reason the SNES eventually beat out the Genesis in the US. It is not overrated.

2. Super Mario 64

Mario 64 was the first example of a truly 3D platformer done well and a lot of people have really fond memories of it. It's aged really well, all things considered, but I don't think it's flawless. The camera's a little janky by modern standards, for example, and the graphics don't hold up all the time (2D trees, 2D fences...). I like it, but I can see how it could be seen as overrated.

9. Melee

Yeah I don't get Melee fanatics. Is it the best fighting game of the Smash games? Probably, but if you want a good fighting game I can name a dozen from the last decade and I don't even play fighting games. IMO what sets Smash apart is the fact that it's a goofy crossover with plenty of spontaniety and opportunity for creativity, and Melee fans are often the exact kind of people who'd suck all of that out and make the series as sterile and rigid as any other fighting game.

1. Chrono Trigger

There is a such thing as a wrong opinion, but I'll give you a pass because you agree with me on Melee.

 

[Dizzle]

I would consider Chrono Trigger to be an overrated game from a gameplay mechanic design standpoint, in my opinion he didn't create any edgy and interesting gameplay mechanics.Maybe it's because I'm very young, so I simply can't understand why is so critically acclaimed, in my opinion it's completely inferior to ALTTP

I was being sarcastic, referencing another user's claim that Chrono Trigger is overrated. I think it's a masterpiece.

 

[Yamanoi]

Do you know if the System Shock remake is good or is it better to just go with the original? I want to play it after experiencing Prey earlier this year

It is a lovely remake so I would play both this and the original.

 

[Horror Kid]

During the 90s up until early 2000s a lot of weird and/or brand-exclusive (read: fanboy) magazines rated video games really high in the console space.

PC had the master race vibe going on (which is its own kind of bad; I was guilty of that as well) but otherwise it was rather brand-agnostic because no first party publishers existed. Reviews where quite a bit more critical there.

I already played Doom, Quake, etc. in internet Cafés or at LAN parties when a friend tried to sell us GoldenEye as the coolest shit ever.
When I squinted my eyes at my quarter of a tiny TV and tried to move my character with this stick I thought he must be joking. Nothing of that was more appealing than the games I played on PC.
In the end we had fun, but a lot of things are fun when you talk shit with three friends in a room (the same reason why I loved the not too good Secret of Mana). I think that might be the main reason why these N64 shooters are still so beloved.

I did not play Perfect Dark anywhere near release but at that time I was playing Unreal Tournament and Counter Strike.
All these PC FPS are still playable and fun today, which cannot be said about GoldenEye or Perfect Dark.
In my opinion.

 

[Mekanos]

Here's what my list would be btw discarding silly things like "innovation":

10. Serious Sam: The First Encounter
9. Catherine
8. Gravity Rush
7. Bloodborne
6. Astro's Playroom
5. Mega Man 2
4. Okami
3. Metal Gear Solid 1
2. Super Mario 64
1. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (recency bias)

How do I delete other people’s posts

 

[jirou]

Is it the best fighting game of the Smash games? Probably

sounds like you kinda do get them lol

 

[BotenAnna]

Great takes! I love the Halo trilogy and like Hald Life even if it's a bit too clunky.

Do you know if the System Shock remake is good or is it better to just go with the original? I want to play it after experiencing Prey earlier this year

Play the remake. The original is very good but this is a case of me endorsing a remake for major accessibility reasons. You can play the OG with a mouselook mod if you really want to check it out, but the remake is plenty fine.

Also while I'm back here, yeah Rare's FPS games are pretty good for what they are. "For what they are" does a lot of heavy lifting here. Like even past Half Life and Halo, you still have so many huge names of the 90s and early 00s that clear them handily. Like just the Quakes alone make the FPS parts of Rare games look clownish. "For what they are" really boils down to the spy mission and objective/map design actually being alright in an action adventure sense and there being fun there, but as far as competing with more traditional FPS they aren't even in the conversation. That's not exactly damning imo, it just is what it is.

 

[Ozeiyo]

FF IX is a coward's take. Final Fantasy X IS the actual bad game

 

[MinxyEMF]

Anyhow, here's my list, in a separate post so that y'all can reply and judge me easier. No particular order:

• The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: It's a great game, but it lacks the customisability and roleplaying potential of Morrowind and Oblivion and completely overshadows them both to a degree that's undeserved.
• Street Fighter 2: Oh my god play a different game it's been over 30 years. I don't play fighting games so maybe there's some je ne sais quoi I'm missing but I find it hard to believe nobody's made a better fighter since the game that basically invented the genre as we know it. How does it still have a scene?
• Super Smash Bros Melee: Explained in my previous post.
• Pokémon Black & White: These games are getting a lot of defenders lately but they're just not good. Boring urban environment, ugly graphical style, restriction to new Pokémon only for the entire main plot in a pretty sub-par gen in terms of designs, interrupting the battle music every time to play the low health music that gets old after the third or fourth time, not even getting to fight the champion at the end of your initial Elite Four run because OH NO THE PLOT, the list goes on and on. I came in after HGSS and my disappointment was immeasurable. Apparently the second versions fixed a lot of the issues but I was so soured by my original experience that I've never given them a fair shot.
• FTL: Faster Than Light: It was the game I think kickstarted the whole indie roguelike boom and also the game that killed indie roguelikes for me. It's brutal but fair right up to the final boss, at which point the game just says 'fuck you' and kills you unless you've done everything right, either by dying to it a few dozen times (and there's no guarantee you'll even get to it!) or just looking up a strategy (which takes the fun out of it for me). I'm not that kind of masochist.
• Destiny 2: Do you want to play for the story? You can't, they removed the first half because the game was 'too big'. Do you want to play non-story co-op missions? Hope you enjoy the five or six they put on rotation for the next month, because you don't get to play any others. Do you want to play PvP? It's repetitive, you'll get killed by Halo demigods for 10 minutes, and you'll barely get anything for it. And the free roam maps are empty and largely pointless.
• The Sims 4: Most people play it because it's the newest one, but it's so soulless compared to all the other games. I don't know how to explain it, it just feels too samey and straightforward compared to its predecessors, and that's with ten years of DLC (and don't get me started on the pricing).
• Fortnite: No game can be that popular and not be overrated, it's that simple.
• Bioshock: The combat felt unsatisfying to me and for an FPS game that's an automatic death sentence. For reference I thought Deus Ex (2000) had satisfying enough combat, so my standards aren't that high.
• Elden Ring: It's like Dark Souls except I don't know where to fucking go at any given time and the game doesn't tell me, so I end up flailing around for hours at challenges I'm not even supposed to be attempting yet. Its enemies (not the bosses, the normal enemies) also just feel unfair on a level that Dark Souls 1's never did. It's either a status effect or a massive health bar or there's twenty of them all ganking you at once or whittling your health down until you just run out of healing.

sounds like you kinda do get them lol

I agree that it's the best fighting game of the Smash games. I don't agree that that's what people should want out of Smash games. I'm not going to begrudge them playing a 20 year old game, but I am going to begrudge them putting pressure on Nintendo to make future Smash games more boring and competitively viable. That's the opposite of what I look for in a Smash game.

 

[Mekanos]

I agree that it's the best fighting game of the Smash games. I don't agree that that's what people should want out of Smash games. I'm not going to begrudge them playing a 20 year old game, but I am going to begrudge them putting pressure on Nintendo to make future Smash games more boring and competitively viable. That's the opposite of what I look for in a Smash game.

I think the group of people who just want Smash to play exactly like Melee forever is pretty small, even among diehard Melee players. I feel like this is a boogeyman propped up a lot by people who don't like the existence of a competitive Smash scene whatsoever (despite Ultimate's competitive scene being very popular in its own right). The beauty of Smash is that it's customizable and can fit multiple people's playstyles. (Also, Melee is hilariously unbalanced and glitchy, I think everyone that plays the game knows this, it's not some little known secret, whereas Ultimate is arguably the most balanced Smash game despite the massive roster.) Ultimate for the most part does a pretty good job striking a gameplay balance that is approachable from both the competitive and non-competitive angles. The main unfortunate aspect of Ultimate is the online netcode.

Point being, Smash Ultimate is the best selling fighting game of all time. I really doubt this tiny, tiny group "putting pressure" on Nintendo has any sway whatsoever and if people don't want to play competitively nobody is forcing them to.

Also, Black/White are great

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Rare's FPS games are great for people like me who want to play FPS games on console but don't want to aim with analogue sticks.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I think the main things people like about CT are the music, Toriyama artwork, snappy battle system, and rapid fire pacing. I dislike the term “overrated” so I’m not gonna use it, I think CT is a very good game, but it’s never personally been that high on my list of favorite RPGs.

That said I wouldn’t really compare it to LTTP, despite being isometric adventure games on the SNES they are pretty different overall.

One is a mega RPG from the golden age of JRPGs in the 90's and the other is a pioneer and cornerstone of the modern action-adventure game, and I really can't compare them under the same standard, but I'm used to taking apart all the appearance about the art the music, etc. and checking out the design of the gameplay mechanics straight away, and for me at least Chrono Trigger didn't appeal to me.

 

[neil]

Battle Arena Toshinden was a PlayStation launch window game that got middling reviews and was quickly forgotten here in the UK. I've never heard anyone rating it highly at the time or since, but maybe it got a different reception in the US.

 

[Aether]

That list is bullshit, by design.

But man, there are some gfms on it (FF9?!)

And battle arena toshinden was fun!
I played the ps version and the GB version, and imho it's a great fighting game, in both iterations. (At least causally and for the time they where released).

Oh, and bat GB was the first time I heard
Bach's toccata & fuge

 

[Leica]

I love FFIX and I think it's in the higher tier of FF games but it's way too slow, some of the worst combat in the franchise IMO. Hugely benefits from speed boosters and stuff that wasn't readily available in 2005 (outside of emulation maybe). That said I don't really remember it being that well regarded back then, felt that came later on.

 

[Midway-AGNC-]

I'm sorry but games like Doom and System Shock from back then are actually in the conversation for best FPS of all time, and worth playing today, not Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark is barely worth playing even with nostalgia taken into account. I could maybe let you say that for Rise of the Triad with how influential it was, and even that was not worth playing until we got a remaster. You can like Perfect Dark, I'm not trying to say anything otherwise or take that away from you. It isn't anywhere "amongst the best FPS' of all time".

I don't care what rating it had from back then. Even Grand Theft Auto IV or Bioshock Infinite have very high ratings. Do you think Bioshock Infinite is influential for anything other than being a racist piece of poop people make fun of today?

I guess you should read the latest Nintendo Direct thread which Perfect Dark was announced for Switch, many people there enjoyed the announcement. And yes, many people still like playing Perfect Dark even today.

You're talking about Doom. I agree with you that is regarded as one of the best of all time, but at the same time many say the controls haven't aged well for today's standards. I don't personally agree with it, but there's such views nowadays.

Sorry, but you're full of shit, trying to force swallow your personal tastes in others and seems to be bottered by the fact people actually like Perfect Dark.

Edit: LOL at the warning I got. Constant trolling and fanboy calling in this thread and I'm the one who's not making positive discussion? All right, you got me.

Edit 2: it wasn't only me.

 

[Yamanoi]

I guess you should read the latest Nintendo Direct thread which Perfect Dark was announced for Switch, many people there enjoyed the announcement. And yes, many people still like playing Perfect Dark even today.

You're talking about Doom. I agree with you that is regarded as one of the best of all time, but at the same time many say the controls haven't aged well for today's standards. I don't personally agree with it, but there's such views nowadays.

Sorry, but you're full of shit, trying to force swallow your personal tastes in others and seems to be bottered by the fact people actually like Perfect Dark.

I would definitely rather be full of shit literally than play Perfect Dark. You got me.

 

[placenta]

Spot 1 on that list is shared by Dark Souls and Super Mario Odyssey.

 

[Shoulder]

I think part of the reason why the likes of Goldeneye, and Perfect Dark get shafted today, and/or listed as overrated is because back then, all we had was to put up with the shitty frame rates, and the "unique" control scheme for the time. But today, all of that can be fixed. We can play those games at stable frame rates, plus we can adapt it to play with dual-analog, and even when I was playing Goldeneye on NSO not too long ago, I thought to myself, "This game has aged in terms of graphics, but other than that? It still plays great."

The level design, plus the individual levels, the objectives, plus the different difficulties were all great back then, and I still think are great today. Today we have achievements, but back then? We had objectives, and those were required, damn it!

I haven't dived into PD on NSO yet, but like typical Nintendo, it has issues on the emulation front, so that'll have to wait until I'm done with PM:TTYD.

 

[Leo]

DKC and FFIX have no place in this list.

FFIX wasn't even rated at the time, let alone overrated. And today it's the absolute best FF on the PS1, if any of those games were overrated it was was FFVIII.

 

[Shoulder]

Since we're talking overrated, I got one that might ruffle some feathers.

The original Resident Evil games prior to RE4. I tried playing REmake on GCN, (and Code Veronica on DC), and the controls are what made me put the game down, and never attempting it again. I'm sorry, but bad controls don't excuse "oh, but it's to make the game feel more horror, and not feel so easy to play!" That's like designing a gun where the barrel is intentionally angled downward, so you have to compensate by pointing the gun slightly upward in order to fire it straight because, "Guns shouldn't be so easy to fire!" It's fucking dumb is what it is.

Now that the original REmakes have been HD-ified (I'm not referring to the RE4-eque remakes of 1, 2, and 3 btw), and have an optional control scheme where the analog sticks act like you'd expect in a game with pre-rendered backgrounds, I'm much more inclined to give it a go. In my experience, some of these older games aren't bad, they just have bad controls.

 

[Shinespark]

There is a such thing as a wrong opinion, but I'll give you a pass because you agree with me on Melee.

It's objectively a great game that holds up better than many of its contemporaries! I just wish RPG fans would treat it like FPS fans treat Doom.
It's a great game, it's just nowhere close to the best RPG ever at this point.

Alas, this is a hill that I feel I must die alone on, in which case this does feel like a wrong opinion. People used to say the same thing about my stance on Firefly though, but they eventually came around!

 

[MaitreWakou]

So there's context, here's the reasoning they gave for each entry:

All of those reasonings are more than understandable and reasonable imo. Especially when put into the context of the era that was written. (Rare lost its credibility for many, "artsy" games were considered as "non-games", etc)

Only one I would say shouldn't be here is DKC, and I'm a big hater of the OG DKC that I never find fun and engaging because of its physics, but even I think it's not overated, it's still a classic that inspired a lot of designers and artists. (And also, I don't agree that FF9 is less essential that FF8)

 

[MarcelRguez]

The original Resident Evil games prior to RE4. I tried playing REmake on GCN, (and Code Veronica on DC), and the controls are what made me put the game down, and never attempting it again. I'm sorry, but bad controls don't excuse "oh, but it's to make the game feel more horror, and not feel so easy to play!"

This has never been the reason why those games control the way they do. It's a concession made due to the fixed camera angles the games use, given that "walk forward" would change input with each camera change if it weren't fixed to "up", making navigation way more frustrating. Horror games with 3D environments (Silent Hill) made adjustments to the system so that controls "autocorrect" during tracking shots and the like, and later on other games with similar control schemes on the PS2 would further modify the system for their specific needs (DMC).

As a side-note, CV is for my money the worst controlling game of the classics precisely because it didn't do enough to adapt its movement to the way its environments are crafted, which causes some wonkiness here and there. Not that sure about REmake (it's been ages since I've played it), but I don't think the more detailed environments help when trying to grasp the controls, as odd as it might sound. The best way to learn tank controls is still to just play the original RE.

 

[Shoulder]

This has never been the reason why those games control the way they do. It's a concession made due to the fixed camera angles the games use, given that "walk forward" would change input with each camera change if it weren't fixed to "up", making navigation way more frustrating. Horror games with 3D environments (Silent Hill) made adjustments to the system so that controls "autocorrect" during tracking shots and the like, and later on other games with similar control schemes on the PS2 would further modify the system for their specific needs (DMC).

As a side-note, CV is for my money the worst controlling game of the classics precisely because it didn't do enough to adapt its movement to the way its environments are crafted, which causes some wonkiness here and there. Not that sure about REmake (it's been ages since I've played it), but I don't think the more detailed environments help when trying to grasp the controls, as odd as it might sound. The best way to learn tank controls is still to just play the original RE.

Based on my experiences with Eternal Darkness at the time, I don't buy that argument about the fixed camera angles being some concession for the controls. Capcom could've easily fixed that, but probably just chose not to (I'd be curious if they publicly spoke about it back then, or even later on through some port-mortem). You mentioned navigation being frustrating, and I never considered that the case for Eternal Darkness, and there are plenty of moments where the camera angles change suddenly to where you have to adjust the analog stick. It does, however, have the benefit of camera tracking in many areas though so you're more likely to stay in that orientation of the analog stick.

I suppose I'd have to watch a video of someone playing the newer REHD versions with both control options side by side to see how they truly compare.

 

[MarcelRguez]

Based on my experiences with Eternal Darkness at the time, I don't buy that argument about the fixed camera angles being some concession for the controls. Capcom could've easily fixed that, but probably just chose not to (I'd be curious if they publicly spoke about it back then, or even later on through some port-mortem). You mentioned navigation being frustrating, and I never considered that the case for Eternal Darkness, and there are plenty of moments where the camera angles change suddenly to where you have to adjust the analog stick. It does, however, have the benefit of camera tracking in many areas though so you're more likely to stay in that orientation of the analog stick.

I suppose I'd have to watch a video of someone playing the newer REHD versions with both control options side by side to see how they truly compare.

If we're talking strictly about CV and REmake, as opposed to the original trilogy, then sure, but, knowing Capcom, revamping the camera would also mean revamping the environments, and making it a fully 3D (and as a result, much less visually impressive) game.

I'm confused by the Eternal Darknes comparison because, from what I recall, it straight up does not have fixed camera angles in the same way RE1-3 and REmake do. Its environments are 3D, which allows for, as you mention, other (imo, way more boring in terms of framing) solutions. The only times in which you'd need to reorient the stick is in 90º turns and the like, but that's not exactly specific to Eternal Darkness. That said, it's also another game I haven't played in forever (can't remember if I ever beat it, actually), so correct me if that's not the case. I do remember that especially when you control Alex there are more camera jumps here and there, and interactables sometimes have a dedicated "zoomed in" screen cuts, but a single large room isn't segmented in various shots like the older RE games, so there's no need for tank controls.

In general, I think every horror game of that time that uses character movement in tandem with panning shots controls worse than older RE games, at least until you memorize how the camera pans through the room and learn to move the character in tandem to compensate. This is regardless of whether the game uses tank controls or not. It works when this disconnect, say, causes Harry to run straight into a brick wall at the beginning of SH1 (a legit case of adding friction to the controls as a way to instill tension in the player), but sadly not every game is SH1.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

If I were to put forward any game for contention, it should be Resident Evil 4.

It's a very very very good game. But it's also the game which the online discourse has arbitrarily decided invented the over the shoulder camera/aiming system, because Cliffy B referenced it once in an interview about Gears of War.

It is not the first game to invent over the shoulder aiming. It's not even the first game to invent the modern dual stick aiming control setup for third person shooters. It's a very good game that released at a time when a number of games were redefining how third person games with guns controlled.

Splinter Cell is the real MVP. Came out day one, and mastered three sixty degree control, over the shoulder aiming and strafing controls. Phenomenal game, that influenced the rest of the genre.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

One is a mega RPG from the golden age of JRPGs in the 90's and the other is a pioneer and cornerstone of the modern action-adventure game, and I really can't compare them under the same standard, but I'm used to taking apart all the appearance about the art the music, etc. and checking out the design of the gameplay mechanics straight away, and for me at least Chrono Trigger didn't appeal to me.

Well you don't like RPGs, right? So that's kind of an important detail when mentioning that Chrono Trigger is overrated.

Personally I enjoyed what time I had with it but I did jump off after 8 hours. What stood out to me about the game was that for all the talk of it not having random encounters, the fact that it purposely makes you re-experience scripted encounters again, and that they can even have set up times, kind of ruined whatever pacing thing it had for no random encounters. It's still a well paced game, but the combat didn't have much depth and I got bored after a while.

 

[E.Gadd]

Battle Arena Toshinden was a PlayStation launch window game that got middling reviews and was quickly forgotten here in the UK. I've never heard anyone rating it highly at the time or since, but maybe it got a different reception in the US.

Right?

the most irritating thing about this list is not his choices for popular games that he didn't like all that much, it's the Toshinden inclusion

nobody was stanning that game when it released and definitely nobody was stanning for it way later in 2005

nobody

this man robbed Mario Kart 64 or Legend of Dragoon their rightful spot on this list because of some petty blood feud with Battle Arena Toshinden

 

[xtoc]

Donkey kong and killer instinct, lol. Those belong to the best games ever been created

 

[james]

Street Fighter 2: Oh my god play a different game it's been over 30 years. I don't play fighting games so maybe there's some je ne sais quoi I'm missing but I find it hard to believe nobody's made a better fighter since the game that basically invented the genre as we know it. How does it still have a scene?

theres a post i could make about how street fighter 2 was an incredibly forward thinking game that set such a strong foundation that its the template for an entire genre of video games that didnt really exist before it but honestly the part of your post whree you said "i dont play fighting games" probably explains why you feel like youre missing something lol

 

[BotenAnna]

Street Fighter 2: Oh my god play a different game it's been over 30 years. I don't play fighting games so maybe there's some je ne sais quoi I'm missing but I find it hard to believe nobody's made a better fighter since the game that basically invented the genre as we know it. How does it still have a scene?

This is the kind of statement where I feel obligated to let you know that you probably should learn more about the thing you are talking about before going in on it. There are a multitude of very good reasons SF2 is still relevant to this day. You should really check out and learn about fighting games sometime if you ever have a passing interest! Even if you don't wanna play them it's a very storied genre with wild history.

 

[Dizzle]

"Overrated" is overrated. If a game is well loved, but it "didn't click for you" then it isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. Calling something overrated is a sweeping statement that large swaths of people are wrong. If you're going to do that, you'd better have a good argument.

 

[KCannon]

I agree that DKC is sorta overrated, but only because DKC2 was such a major improvement across the board, yet it never appears to have the same amount of appreciation outside enthusiast circles. As far as the gameplay goes, the first DKC is very standard, with the DK+Diddy tag team being the most interesting thing from it. And DKC2 did that better too.

Stuff like Yoshi's Island and Super Metroid, meanwhile, remain peak among their series. Arguably, this may be due to them having no immediate sequels to show how much they could've been improved, so they get to remain unchallenged.

 

[Mekanos]

"Overrated" is overrated. If a game is well loved, but it "didn't click for you" then it isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. Calling something overrated is a sweeping statement that large swaths of people are wrong. If you're going to do that, you'd better have a good argument.

It's also generally useless as a criticism. It's criticizing people's responses to a piece of art, not the actual content within.

 

[Rareware]

"Overrated" is overrated. If a game is well loved, but it "didn't click for you" then it isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. Calling something overrated is a sweeping statement that large swaths of people are wrong. If you're going to do that, you'd better have a good argument.

Excellent point! And I’m being honest, DK64 is probably the only Rare game on the list that I can understand as being considered ‘overrated’. It reviewed very well, sold very well, but was largely criticized in the later years for having so many things to collect. Personally, I didn’t mind (and still don’t!) and loved the game, but I understand where people are coming from.

 

[Midway-AGNC-]

"Overrated" is overrated. If a game is well loved, but it "didn't click for you" then it isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. Calling something overrated is a sweeping statement that large swaths of people are wrong. If you're going to do that, you'd better have a good argument.

What's annoying in this kind of thread is when someone pop up shouting "I hate this game, it's overrated!!!" without any compelling reason to explain why, just for mere fact they don't like it and think their subjectivity is a mandatory rule.

I'm not fond of Dark Souls, for example, but I won't call it overrated by any means for that reason alone, I'm aware of the impact, legacy and fanbase it has and can see the reasoning for why it's so beloved. It might not be for me, but it's for many other ones.

 

[Shinespark]

"Overrated" is overrated. If a game is well loved, but it "didn't click for you" then it isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. Calling something overrated is a sweeping statement that large swaths of people are wrong. If you're going to do that, you'd better have a good argument.

You're making the assumption that everyone who states something is overrated is making that comment because a game didn't resonate. There's plenty of games that I love that I think are overrated, because it can also be used to describe something you believe gets too much praisd.

For example, Super Metroid was the first search action game I ever played. I own the soundtrack on vinyl and I still remember the feeling when I figured out wall jumping. One of my favorite games ever. It's also regularly described as either the best game ever or the best Metroidvania ever, and I think that goes too far. The default button mapping is cumbersome, aiming is clunky, and 90s pixel art (while impressive) is not the peak visual achievement of gaming. I think Hollow Knight, the first Ori, Dread, and SteamWorld Dig 2 surpass Super Metroid in so many significant ways that the praise Super Metroid often gets has veered into overrated territory.

I don't if you'll read all of this, because I believe you insinuated I was braindead and dumb earlier in the thread. But not everyone who describes something as overrated is saying that because they believe everyone who likes a thing has poor tastes.