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Discussion IGN Presents: The Top 10 Legend of Zelda games of all time (post-TOTK edition)

The biggest question I have with these lists is that, as someone who prefers WW over TP, I do wonder how WW always seems to place above it. OoT I get, and MM well, there’s really nothing like it. SS is usually low or left off because it’s divisive. But TP and WW have a lot of the same problems, but TP has VASTLY better dungeons.

It’s not something I value as much, I just prefer WW’s whimsy and sea exploration, but I’m surprised to see most people place it above TP
Between BOTW and WW, it should be clear that the bulk of Zelda's fanbase over the years simply does not care as much for the dungeons as it does the adventure. As long as some dungeon set pieces are there to mark progression through the quest, that's all that people really want. They don't need the ,multi hour long elaborate puzzle box style Metroidvania design dungeons that Zelda fans have been demanding for the last six years, that Mark Brown will make multiple video essays on, that some fans place above everything else in the franchise.
 
10. Minish Cap
9. Zelda 2
8. Link's Awakening
7. Twilight Princess
6. Wind Waker
5. Skyward Sword
4. A Link Between Worlds
3. Majora's Mask
2. Ocarina of Time
1. BotW

Will judge TOTK when the dust settles.
 
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The biggest question I have with these lists is that, as someone who prefers WW over TP, I do wonder how WW always seems to place above it. OoT I get, and MM well, there’s really nothing like it. SS is usually low or left off because it’s divisive. But TP and WW have a lot of the same problems, but TP has VASTLY better dungeons.

It’s not something I value as much, I just prefer WW’s whimsy and sea exploration, but I’m surprised to see most people place it above TP
I think it's really mostly down to the presentation. Wind Waker has a much better art style, better soundtrack, better story, and better towns. Twilight Princess in comparison tends to get dismissed as a lesser Ocarina of Time that's aged poorly graphically and has an infamously long opening. The things it does better are mainly nitty gritty gameplay stuff that no one really cares about, and for some reason its been subject to a lot of weird persistent narratives that are blatantly false. Like, I think everyone at this point has heard the complaints about the Spinner not being used after the dungeon you get it in. ...Except, it shows up in at least three dungeons after that one, and there are multiple sections of the overworld dedicated to Spinner puzzles. On the other hand, Arbiter's Grounds really does not deserve to be remembered as the cool Spinner dungeon, because you get all of one room dedicated to it before the boss.

Between BOTW and WW, it should be clear that the bulk of Zelda's fanbase over the years simply does not care as much for the dungeons as it does the adventure. As long as some dungeon set pieces are there to mark progression through the quest, that's all that people really want. They don't need the ,multi hour long elaborate puzzle box style Metroidvania design dungeons that Zelda fans have been demanding for the last six years, that Mark Brown will make multiple video essays on, that some fans place above everything else in the franchise.
Twilight Princess's dungeons have approximately none of what you're describing. They're 30 minutes to an hour long, the only one that even resembles a puzzle box is Lakebed (in reality it solves itself if you play it exactly like every other dungeon in the game), Mark Brown didn't particularly like them, Metroidvania design is a bit of a stretch when they're all varying degrees of linear, and nobody cared about any of that because they had creative presentations and cool items and monsters in them.
 
Any top 10 list us gonna be controversial, because there’s 12 games that generally seem to make up the “top tier”, and therefore 2 games will always be left off. In this case, it’s Skyward Sword and Minish Cap.

My controversial opinion is that the original NES game is near the bottom of the list, but I also grade games strictly on how they play today rather than including importance to the industry, so the disparity makes sense in my eyes.
When I rank games of series that are 30+ years old, I always decide whether it’s a ‘historical importance/influence’ or ‘my favourites today’ list too. As a fair chunk of game design is an iterative process building on what came before, which means you don’t always need to include the originals in a ‘best of’ if there’s been several games over the following 35+ years that took the template and ran with it. Same goes for pretty much all the classics, whether it’s Mario, Zelda, Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Contra etc.
 
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I think this is less about what is better and more what style of game you like (Open World / Linearity / Grid based level design /…). Though still, I think BOTW is for Open World Action Adventures one of the most impactful games ever.

After playing TOTK for some hours, I really like everything I see, but I‘m also quite overwhelmed to an extend that I miss the simplicity of BOTW. I really can‘t say right now which game I think is better.
This for me. I still vastly prefer the 2D games for their immediacy, Majoras Mask wouldn’t even be on my top ten at all, and Minish Cap would be in the top five.

About ten hours into ToTK and it’s really, really good. I think I’m enjoying it more than BOTW at this point as I’m loving the small amount of direction that’s taking the edge off the ‘here’s a whole game’s worth of major creative tools you can do anything with, off you go!’. That can feel a bit overwhelming at first even though it’s unbelievably good fun and stunning game design. Still early days though.

My pre-TotK list, which is a ‘my favourites to play today’ rather than a historical importance/influence one. I have no wish to ever play through Skyward Sword again due to the controls, or PH/MM due to disliking their general gameplay loops, but I think Zelda changes up so much that it’s inevitable that people may really like some aspects of some games and not others.

Link to the Past
Link Between Worlds
Link’s Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Minish Cap
Breath of The Wild
The Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
The Legend of Zelda
Spirit Tracks
 
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Twilight Princess's dungeons have approximately none of what you're describing. They're 30 minutes to an hour long, the only one that even resembles a puzzle box is Lakebed (in reality it solves itself if you play it exactly like every other dungeon in the game), Mark Brown didn't particularly like them, Metroidvania design is a bit of a stretch when they're all varying degrees of linear, and nobody cared about any of that because they had creative presentations and cool items and monsters in them.
I never said they did lol. I said that the core enthusiast fanbase tends to overemphasize the significance of dungeons for the overall experience. Majora’s Mask, TWW, and BOTW are among the more loved Zelda games and none of them particularly register for their dungeon designs (Stone Tower aside).

I think what’s always been at the root of Zelda’s appeal has been the spirit of discovery and adventure, not dungeons.
 
I think an element of dungeon appeal in the older games (particularly Ocarina and Skyward Sword) that's often overlooked is their atmosphere and storytelling, more than their puzzles

People don't remember the Ancient Cistern for its stellar puzzle gameplay, though it had that. They remember it for its wildly contrasting aesthetics divided between Paradise and Hell, and the way it told the story of Skyward Sword in a much smaller, more compact way. It was a feast for the senses

And people don't remember the Forest Temple for its excellent puzzling (which, while good, wasn't up to snuff with many other dungeons in the game). They remember it for having to chase ghosts all over the place, for feeling haunted, and for sounding like this:



I'm not deep enough into TOTK to comment on this directly (I haven't done any of the main quest, though I've got about 30 shrines under my belt), but I think people tend to oversell the importance of the puzzling. People's biggest problems with the Divine Beasts wasn't the puzzle gameplay, which was well and truly excellent, it was the same-y aesthetics. And people were loud and explicit about that!

Then you get to Hyrule Castle. People love Hyrule Castle! It has next to no puzzles, and you can just wander around it for as long as some games take to complete, but it oozes history and you're surrounded by the strongest enemies in the game and they'll lock you in a closet with a lynel and you can see how badly the battle went for the Hyrulean forces, it's everywhere, you're surrounded by Malice and dried blood—and it sounds like this:



Similar to how LOZ1 and BOTW both excelled at evoking a sense of exploration, I think an underappreciated power of the dungeons is evoking a sense of specific place, of alienness

It's good stuff
 
On the one hand, it screams recency bias. On the other hand, having BotW at #1 a week ago is perfectly reasonable. And TotK is superior in every way. So yea, kind of tracks.
 
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10.-4. I don't care.

3. A Link to the Past
2. Link's Awakening (Switch remake)
1. A Link Between Worlds

The top three are really, really close, though, and I won't argue any particular ordering of them.
 
A lot of these lists almost feel obligated to put Ocarina or ALttP at top one or two, so I applaud them for actually making BotW/TotK top two instead. They deserve it.
 
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I think an element of dungeon appeal in the older games (particularly Ocarina and Skyward Sword) that's often overlooked is their atmosphere and storytelling, more than their puzzles

People don't remember the Ancient Cistern for its stellar puzzle gameplay, though it had that. They remember it for its wildly contrasting aesthetics divided between Paradise and Hell, and the way it told the story of Skyward Sword in a much smaller, more compact way. It was a feast for the senses

And people don't remember the Forest Temple for its excellent puzzling (which, while good, wasn't up to snuff with many other dungeons in the game). They remember it for having to chase ghosts all over the place, for feeling haunted, and for sounding like this:



I'm not deep enough into TOTK to comment on this directly (I haven't done any of the main quest, though I've got about 30 shrines under my belt), but I think people tend to oversell the importance of the puzzling. People's biggest problems with the Divine Beasts wasn't the puzzle gameplay, which was well and truly excellent, it was the same-y aesthetics. And people were loud and explicit about that!

Then you get to Hyrule Castle. People love Hyrule Castle! It has next to no puzzles, and you can just wander around it for as long as some games take to complete, but it oozes history and you're surrounded by the strongest enemies in the game and they'll lock you in a closet with a lynel and you can see how badly the battle went for the Hyrulean forces, it's everywhere, you're surrounded by Malice and dried blood—and it sounds like this:



Similar to how LOZ1 and BOTW both excelled at evoking a sense of exploration, I think an underappreciated power of the dungeons is evoking a sense of specific place, of alienness

It's good stuff

Yeah, I personally don’t need dungeons in future games to be 1:1 the OOT puzzle box style, just give me atmospheric and distinctive locations to explore and fight monsters in. Link To The Past style but in 3D, essentially.
 
I think it's really mostly down to the presentation. Wind Waker has a much better art style, better soundtrack, better story, and better towns. Twilight Princess in comparison tends to get dismissed as a lesser Ocarina of Time that's aged poorly graphically and has an infamously long opening. The things it does better are mainly nitty gritty gameplay stuff that no one really cares about, and for some reason its been subject to a lot of weird persistent narratives that are blatantly false. Like, I think everyone at this point has heard the complaints about the Spinner not being used after the dungeon you get it in. ...Except, it shows up in at least three dungeons after that one, and there are multiple sections of the overworld dedicated to Spinner puzzles. On the other hand, Arbiter's Grounds really does not deserve to be remembered as the cool Spinner dungeon, because you get all of one room dedicated to it before the boss.

Twilight Princess's dungeons have approximately none of what you're describing. They're 30 minutes to an hour long, the only one that even resembles a puzzle box is Lakebed (in reality it solves itself if you play it exactly like every other dungeon in the game), Mark Brown didn't particularly like them, Metroidvania design is a bit of a stretch when they're all varying degrees of linear, and nobody cared about any of that because they had creative presentations and cool items and monsters in them.
This post feels straight out of another dimension to me

1. I only recall the spinner showing up twice after Arbiter's Grounds: once in the overworld and once in Hyrule Castle. But even if it did show up more than that, it was nothing more than a glorified lock and key mechanism. Basically just thirty seconds of have spinner, grind rail each time. "Multiple" "sections" of the overworld dedicated to spinner "puzzles" is extremely generous phrasing

2. Half hour to an hour dungeons? What? Unless you've played the game multiple times and are intricately familiar with all the dungeon layouts and puzzles like the back of your hand, they are absolutely the longest dungeons in the franchise. They all took me two to three hours. And I'm going to preemptively block off any conversation pertaining to skill, because my completion time was right in line with the HowLongToBeat average

3. The dungeons might all solve linearly, as in you can't sequence break, but they are absolutely not laid out linearly
 
I played Twilight Princess very recently, so it has no nostalgia for me, but I think that game is outstanding. The dungeon design is the best I’ve seen in a video game, and the atmosphere is real moody without being super dark the way say a Souls game would be.
Curiously enough I found the Link in TP, despite being a lot more realistic in design, to be much more emotive than the one in BotW
 
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BOTW was my favorite game of all time and after 20 hours in TOTK it has taken that spot. So I completely agree with the top 2 !

I would put Twilight Princess higher as I personally adore that game but good list overall :)
 
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Twilight Princess burnt me out on 3D Zelda. I appreciated the dungeons individually, but I was ready for the game to end long before it did. It's been over fifteen years and I still feel it whenever I'm tempted to start any of OoT-SS.
 
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I know I'm in the minority, but BOTW doesn't even crack my top 10 and TOTK might land on the 10th spot, if I'm generous. There's just too much I dislike on a fundamental level in those games.

10. Oracle Of Seasons
9. Oracle Of Ages
8. The Minish Cap
7. Link's Awakening
6. The Wind Waker
5. Majora's Mask
4. A Link Between Worlds
3. Ocarina Of Time
2. Skyward Sword
1. Twilight Princess
 
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This post feels straight out of another dimension to me

1. I only recall the spinner showing up twice after Arbiter's Grounds: once in the overworld and once in Hyrule Castle. But even if it did show up more than that, it was nothing more than a glorified lock and key mechanism. Basically just thirty seconds of have spinner, grind rail each time. "Multiple" "sections" of the overworld dedicated to spinner "puzzles" is extremely generous phrasing

2. Half hour to an hour dungeons? What? Unless you've played the game multiple times and are intricately familiar with all the dungeon layouts and puzzles like the back of your hand, they are absolutely the longest dungeons in the franchise. They all took me two to three hours. And I'm going to preemptively block off any conversation pertaining to skill, because my completion time was right in line with the HowLongToBeat average

3. The dungeons might all solve linearly, as in you can't sequence break, but they are absolutely not laid out linearly
Absolutely not lol
For the Spinner, off the top of my head it's in Hyrule Castle, used for at least one lock mechanism in City in the Sky (not much, but it is a use technically), and the rails also appear at least once in Temple of Time. In the overworld there's a whole canyon area dedicated to it, and there's another Spinner puzzle built into the area south of Castle Town with all the gardens where Agitha hangs out sometimes. You have to jump between the rails with proper timing to complete these, it's not just a fancy key and it's actually decently hard to use. I'm not saying it shows up a ton, it's obviously an item limited by needing to have architecture designed specifically for it in order for it to do anything, because that's the way they designed it, but it's far from the only Zelda item like that and I don't think they really did an unusually bad job with giving it things to do outside of the dungeon you find it in (and if nothing else it definitely adds up to more uses outside of the dungeon than in it because of how little it's in that dungeon).

The dungeons are definitely longer than average, I didn't compare them to every other game but 20-30 minutes seemed more like the norm elsewhere. I checked the length of some dungeon playthroughs on YouTube to arrive at the 30 minutes to an hour estimate. Looking over all of them again, 30 minutes seems too low, but 40 on the low end and an hour on the high end, with most of them falling in the 45-50 minute range, seems pretty accurate. I feel like people really overestimate the length of Zelda dungeons in general, but I guess it's kind of hard to judge because they could really take any amount of time beyond what is required just to go through them in a physical sense. That's probably why I just look at their baseline length. I still can't see them normally taking hours unless you get really stuck.

What I meant by linear was that a lot of Twilight Princess dungeons have a really similar structure that is mostly linear in the sense that you just follow a continuous path and don't really have to turn around or figure out where to go next. This is basically why they weren't setting Mark Brown's world on fire. They're among the most linear Zelda dungeons in that sense, a very far cry from something like OoT Forest Temple where you wander around looking for keys (which is not necessarily a bad thing mind, I've always disliked the way that section was designed, but I digress). You arrive into a "main" room shortly after entering, then you go through one wing, come back into the main room, and then do the other wing.

In terms of Metroidvania design, because the linearity means you tend to do one section of the dungeon and then leave it behind completely, a lot of them don't really have many "I need an item here but don't have it yet" moments. I think they always try to have at least one in this game, so there's that? Zelda dungeons have honestly never been consistently great at taking advantage of this formula though, Link's Awakening came up with it and did it really well (before Super Metroid, even!) but then one game later you have the Shadow Temple where you get the item so fast you might as well have entered the dungeon with it, and Dodongo's Cavern where the first place you need to use bombs is conveniently located past the room where you get bombs. Twilight Princess could be more clever with it than I'm remembering though, a few of them did do a pretty solid job, like Forest Temple and Temple of Time (though calling a completely straight path Metroidvania design feels wrong for other reasons), but then those are two of the ones that diverge the most from the above template for the path you need to take through them. I should also mention that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both do this thing where they have chests containing Treasure Charts/Heart Pieces which you can optionally backtrack to in earlier parts of the dungeon, often once you get the item. I suppose these could technically provide more of those "here's a thing I can't do yet" moments in certain dungeons, though I think they tend to be kind of hidden, probably because they don't want them acting as red herrings drawing the player away from the real path forward once they do get the item.
 
The dungeons are definitely longer than average, I didn't compare them to every other game but 20-30 minutes seemed more like the norm elsewhere. I checked the length of some dungeon playthroughs on YouTube to arrive at the 30 minutes to an hour estimate. Looking over all of them again, 30 minutes seems too low, but 40 on the low end and an hour on the high end, with most of them falling in the 45-50 minute range, seems pretty accurate. I feel like people really overestimate the length of Zelda dungeons in general, but I guess it's kind of hard to judge because they could really take any amount of time beyond what is required just to go through them in a physical sense. That's probably why I just look at their baseline length. I still can't see them normally taking hours unless you get really stuck.
Using YouTube metrics doesn't really work because most YouTube videos don't depict players getting stuck on puzzles or lost for long, most of them essentially being walkthroughs. The vast majority of players will not be finishing any of the dungeons from Lakebed to Sky in less than an hour.
 
Using YouTube metrics doesn't really work because most YouTube videos don't depict players getting stuck on puzzles or lost for long, most of them essentially being walkthroughs. The vast majority of players will not be finishing any of the dungeons from Lakebed to Sky in less than an hour.
I don't really know how to fairly predict how long the dungeons will take beyond that, because it could be any amount of time based on who's playing. All I can really add is that for as long as these are on paper, I think they're also a lot easier than say, the N64 dungeons, so I'm not sure they would actually take most players longer in practice.
 
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I never said they did lol. I said that the core enthusiast fanbase tends to overemphasize the significance of dungeons for the overall experience. Majora’s Mask, TWW, and BOTW are among the more loved Zelda games and none of them particularly register for their dungeon designs (Stone Tower aside).

I think what’s always been at the root of Zelda’s appeal has been the spirit of discovery and adventure, not dungeons.
Good dungeons were always a highlight of every Zelda game, those 3 you mentioned in particular.

Talking of dungeon design/puzzles: Ages remains one of the peaks for both.
They're the best Zelda games.
 
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I’d put Twilight Princess as my #3 behind BotW and TotK. The day it finally gets ported to Switch is going to be a happy day.
 
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For the Spinner, off the top of my head it's in Hyrule Castle, used for at least one lock mechanism in City in the Sky (not much, but it is a use technically), and the rails also appear at least once in Temple of Time. In the overworld there's a whole canyon area dedicated to it, and there's another Spinner puzzle built into the area south of Castle Town with all the gardens where Agitha hangs out sometimes. You have to jump between the rails with proper timing to complete these, it's not just a fancy key and it's actually decently hard to use. I'm not saying it shows up a ton, it's obviously an item limited by needing to have architecture designed specifically for it in order for it to do anything, because that's the way they designed it, but it's far from the only Zelda item like that and I don't think they really did an unusually bad job with giving it things to do outside of the dungeon you find it in (and if nothing else it definitely adds up to more uses outside of the dungeon than in it because of how little it's in that dungeon).
People focus on the spinner because it's a really cool/fun item. No one's shedding a tear if the ball and chain gets underutilized or never reaches its full potential

The dungeons are definitely longer than average, I didn't compare them to every other game but 20-30 minutes seemed more like the norm elsewhere. I checked the length of some dungeon playthroughs on YouTube to arrive at the 30 minutes to an hour estimate. Looking over all of them again, 30 minutes seems too low, but 40 on the low end and an hour on the high end, with most of them falling in the 45-50 minute range, seems pretty accurate. I feel like people really overestimate the length of Zelda dungeons in general, but I guess it's kind of hard to judge because they could really take any amount of time beyond what is required just to go through them in a physical sense. That's probably why I just look at their baseline length. I still can't see them normally taking hours unless you get really stuck.
As mentioned, YouTube is a useless gauge for this, considering the videos you'll find are walkthroughs. AKA people who already know how to solve the dungeons.

But 20-30 minutes for other Zelda game dungeons? Christ. No offense but do you... actually play Zelda games? I know that sounds rude, and it is a facetious question, but at the same time... I don't understand how you could be so off base. And the way you phrase things makes it sound like you've only ever watched walkthroughs or something.

People don't overestimate shit! They've played the games, they know exactly how long it took them! If you've played them yourself, just think how long they took you your first go around. Here's a much better metric for you than YouTube walkthroughs of all things: HowLongToBeat (or similar sites), which actually poll regular players on their first playthroughs. And my times generally fall right in line with those averages
 
I prefer WW to MM but I see why MM is the better game. A very balanced list imo. I approve.
 
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Yeah, I personally don’t need dungeons in future games to be 1:1 the OOT puzzle box style, just give me atmospheric and distinctive locations to explore and fight monsters in. Link To The Past style but in 3D, essentially.
You have an extremely good avatar/title combo, by the way
 
People focus on the spinner because it's a really cool/fun item. No one's shedding a tear if the ball and chain gets underutilized or never reaches its full potential


As mentioned, YouTube is a useless gauge for this, considering the videos you'll find are walkthroughs. AKA people who already know how to solve the dungeons.

But 20-30 minutes for other Zelda game dungeons? Christ. No offense but do you... actually play Zelda games? I know that sounds rude, and it is a facetious question, but at the same time... I don't understand how you could be so off base. And the way you phrase things makes it sound like you've only ever watched walkthroughs or something.

People don't overestimate shit! They've played the games, they know exactly how long it took them! If you've played them yourself, just think how long they took you your first go around. Here's a much better metric for you than YouTube walkthroughs of all things: HowLongToBeat (or similar sites), which actually poll regular players on their first playthroughs. And my times generally fall right in line with those averages
I mean, I play them a lot. I've played them to the point where I couldn't possibly remember my first time through because it was over a decade ago for all of them, and honestly wasn't even really considering that perspective because I sort of just assumed we were all talking from a place of a lot of experience with the games rather than about blind first playthroughs because that's how I'm used to talking about games in-depth.

But also in general the dungeons were usually not the parts that I got stuck on as a kid anyway, I tended to find some of the overworld stuff far more confusing, and I've played so much Zelda that even new ones or dungeons that I don't remember are usually not much of an issue nowadays because I already know the language so well.
 
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