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Fun Club How do you define a "mainline" entry in a series?

NabiscoFelt

NabiscoFelt

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Because apparently this is something we're talking about

Is Legends Arceus mainline or a spinoff*? Is BoTW the real classic Zelda? Is The Forgotten Land a mainline Kirby? Is the Nintendo Direct Speculation ST a mainline Famiboards ST or just a Nintendo General Discussion ST spinoff? Well, this is the place where you can discuss all of these and more!

*Ok but officially it is a mainline entry, even if it does feel a bit more spinoff-y
 
Generally if it's the same genre as the rest of the series I usually consider it mainline. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but BotW and Kirby Forgotten Land are definitely mainline titles in my mind. I don't play enough Pokemon to say for sure about Legends, but I assumed it was mainline as well.
 
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It's usually pretty self-evident I think. Builds on gameplay foundations from previous games and focuses on the ongoing core story/characters/setting.

I consider Arceus a spin-off because it takes place in a wildly different setting and time period than the mainline games and changes the gameplay a lot (how much I can't say, but based on previews it's a big shakeup), but a spin-off much more in line with the mainline games than something like Mystery Dungeon. But I wouldn't consider say, Metal Gear Solid 3 a spin-off despite taking place in the past because the gameplay is a very clear extension of MGS2.

BOTW on the other hand changes the formula more drastically, but with the intention that the series will look like this going forward, while still having a lot of the traditional components of previous Zelda games, just remixed in new ways. So a "mainline" game can introduce big changes, but it's usually pretty obvious that said changes are going to be fundamental to the series going forward.

There's no hard rules but very rarely I think it's hard to find a point of discretion.
 
Wow, it seems that we're getting a lot of members from ResetEra the more time goes on.

I mean, seriously, I go to Famiboards and all around me are familiar faces... Worn-out faces...

♬ Worn-out faaacccesss... 🎶
 
merp said:
Wow, it seems that we're getting a lot of members from ResetEra the more time goes on.

I mean, seriously, I go to Famiboards and all around me are familiar faces... Worn-out faces...

♬ Worn-out faaacccesss... 🎶
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So what you're saying is that Famiboards is an Era spinoff
 
NabiscoFelt said:
So what you're saying is that Famiboards is an Era spinoff
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neogaf was a gaming age forums spinoff

era was the sequel to neogaf (let's be real)

and we're an era spinoff

so it's like gaming age forums is mario, neogaf was mario kart, resetera is mario kart 64, and we're mario kart home circuit
 
chocolate_supra said:
If you follow thread lore back to ERA you'll see that Nintendo General Discussion is ackshually a spin-off of Nintendo Direct Speculation. 😏
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Ah, but you'll note that I referred to the ST subseries, which is clearly different from the OT subseries.

Besides, Nintendo General Discussion OT was clearly a sequel to Nintendo Direct Speculation OT
 
Mekanos said:
It's usually pretty self-evident I think. Builds on gameplay foundations from previous games and focuses on the ongoing core story/characters/setting.

I consider Arceus a spin-off because it takes place in a wildly different setting and time period than the mainline games and changes the gameplay a lot (how much I can't say, but based on previews it's a big shakeup), but a spin-off much more in line with the mainline games than something like Mystery Dungeon. But I wouldn't consider say, Metal Gear Solid 3 a spin-off despite taking place in the past because the gameplay is a very clear extension of MGS2.
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Arceus is stated to be in the mainline series, that seems pretty self-evident to me. It takes place in the same location as a mainline game as well.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing another mainline Assassin's Creed title once Ubisoft is done with the RPG spinoff series.
 
NabiscoFelt said:
Ah, but you'll note that I referred to the ST subseries, which is clearly different from the OT subseries.

Besides, Nintendo General Discussion OT was clearly a sequel to Nintendo Direct Speculation OT
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Okay, you got me there. As penance I'll answer the OP sincerely.

This is something I've been struggling to understand as a Sonic/Zelda fan. It was easy back when we could simply consider home console games "mainline" and handheld games were spin-offs or.. filler? (I don't mean that in a negative sense although it sounds like it.) But then you have stuff like the Sonic storybook games: Secret Rings and Black Knight, which some write-ups do consider mainline even though I wouldn't, but they are on home consoles so by my old logic they are? It gets confusing. Zelda is the same way. I used to basically say "console games are mainline, handhelds are side content" because it was easy to dismiss stuff like Phantom Hourglass and Triforce Heroes but now EVERY Nintendo game is technically handheld, and we have BotW and Link's Awakening on the same system so that logic doesn't work either.

I'm not really making an argument one way or another, because I don't know how to define it anymore. And I guess that's my point: it's so subjective that any line you draw in the sand on the subject could be easily argued against by someone else. It almost seems like maybe it's a personal preference thing? Like what about a series and it's mechanics defines it to you, and which games seem to deliberately stray from that and stand alone as their own separate thing? It's tough to pinpoint definitively.
 
If I like the game, it's mainline, if I don't, it's a spin off so I can ignore it.

See for example: Metroid prime hunters Vs Metroid prime federation force.
 
Depends on the level of budget and “effort” a game gets, the development team behind it, and the genre the game is in. At least two of these criteria need to be met.

Legends Arceus is a mainline game because it is being produced internally by Game Freak, has had around 3 years worth of development and has a sizable budget that matches the latest Pokémon series title (both S/S and LA have had about ~700 people working on them); despite being a different genre (Open World Action RPG). By contrast, Pokémon Quest might’ve been made by Game Freak, but it has a tiny budget, is a “small scale” title and is in a totally different genre; nobody would argue that it is a spin-off.

Likewise, Mario Kart Tour is a mainline game; being developed by the same staff as Mario Kart 8, is in the same genre and has a sizeable budget; especially for a mobile title. However, the same can’t be said of Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, being developed by NDCUBE instead of EPD, and having significantly cut-down scope compared to other AC Games.
 
NabiscoFelt said:
So what you're saying is that Famiboards is an Era spinoff
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For Zelda it's really easy: does it have 'The Legend of Zelda' in its name? If not, it's a spinoff.

For Kirby is a little more weird: does it makes sense to be a mainline entry? If so, then it's a spinoff.

For Pokemon it's easy too: does the devs explicitly say so? Then it is whatever the devs say it is.

For Fami it's even easier: is Dark Cloud banned? If not, it's a mainline entry.
 
Mekanos said:
I consider Arceus a spin-off because it takes place in a wildly different setting and time period than the mainline games and changes the gameplay a lot (how much I can't say, but based on previews it's a big shakeup), but a spin-off much more in line with the mainline games than something like Mystery Dungeon. But I wouldn't consider say, Metal Gear Solid 3 a spin-off despite taking place in the past because the gameplay is a very clear extension of MGS2.
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The setting was chosen to complement the gameplay additions. It had to be a less urban more wild setting but they also didn't have the time to build an entirely new setting from scratch which is why they went with Sinnoh; Hokkaido in centuries past being in many ways analogous to the American West.

The same old turn based battle system we know and love is still there just with one significant addition; speed stat is not the only thing determining turn order and multiple consequtive turns being possible under this new algorithm. The overworld action is just adding to the aforementioned gameplay following the addition of overworld encounters in Let's Go/SwSh while the open areas expand on SwSh and it's DLC. It also adds to the totem Pokémon idea from SM and maybe others too.

It is much more of an evolution of previous games than some are making it out to be tbh. Where it goes in the future who knows? But Arceus is absolutely main series.
 
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Onilink said:
If producer says that's mainline, it's mainline.
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Yup.

Like, that's the only thing that matters. For example, Tales of the Tempest was originally a "Mothership"* title, but the team officially considered it an "Escort"* title after poor reception and sales.

*i.e. the Tales verbiage for "mainline" and "spin-off" respectively
 
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If the developers say its a spin-off, it's a spin-off.

If the developers say it's mainline or treat it as mainline, then... you know. It's mainline.
 
I think its subjective unless stated by the dev. Basically, you like the direction of a new game? Its mainline to you, you don’t, its a spin off to you. We tell ourselves what we want to be true basically
 
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Ultimately, it's what the developers/publishers say it is. By creating arbitrary checklists that games have to follow, fans are being needlessly restrictive on what a game or franchise can do. Mario 64 (and by extension, all of the games that follow its design) is a major departure from the previous "mainline" 2D games, but no-one in their right mind would argue that it's a spin off. Same goes for something like Breath of the Wild, despite being in some ways the complete opposite of previous Zelda games. Trying to argue that SM64 or BOTW are mainline titles but something like Legends Arceus isn't is silly. Each one was made by the main development team for their respective franchises, and all were positioned as the next main installment by Nintendo. Either they're all mainline, or they're all spinoffs.
 
Also another argument:

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is mainline.
Resident Evil: Code Veronica is mainline.
Sonic Mania is mainline.
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker is mainline.
Xenoblade Chronicles X is mainline.

Lack of numbering doesn't matter mean these games aren't considered mainline entries either.
 
To me it's actually more about the story and characters being carried over that makes it feel "mainline".

For example, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts. Yes, the gameplay is wildly different from what came before but the game was still clearly intended to be a mainline sequel to Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, and pretty much everyone who worked on it like Gregg Mayles considers it to be as such.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Also another argument:

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is mainline.
Resident Evil: Code Veronica is mainline.
Sonic Mania is mainline.
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker is mainline.
Xenoblade Chronicles X is mainline.

Lack of numbering doesn't matter mean these games aren't considered mainline entries either.
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I thought even Monolith said X was a side-game. Am I misremembering?
 
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If the game's developer/publisher says it's a mainline title, it's a mainline title. Simple as that.

This does result in oddities on occasion. At one point, Yoshi's Island was considered a mainline Super Mario title by Nintendo, but nowadays it isn't - it's now the first Yoshi platformer game. Meanwhile the Super Mario Land games weren't considered mainline during the 25th anniversary but were by the time of the 30th anniversary. And to this day we have strange inclusions and omissions - by the standards of the Nintendo Mario website, New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, 3D All-Stars and 3D World + Bowser's Fury (and Mario 35 on the Japanese website) are all mainline, but Super Mario All-Stars, Super Mario 64 DS, the Super Mario Advance games are not.

...but either way this is all arbitrary, anyway.
 
There are also some exceptions, where weird takes on the series were considered sorta main, and games that were first main now are spinoff.
Hyrule Warriors Age of Extinction is one of them, where Zelda team put their face on it (it's a spinoff, with a relevance in the main lore).
Final Fantasy X2, all of FF7 Spinoff, where the story is officially continued as sequel, but they are not main title.
Metroid Prime Hunters and Other M: First considered main, now spinoff with fanfiction story.
And i can go on...

(another thing: handheld title =/= spinoff at all. Castlevania GB title are main title, for example, Zelda ones too, Metroid, etc etc)
 
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