-
Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
Discussion Gamesradar || Sonic Superstars team doesn't think pixel art will be a "viable" art style in 10 years
- Thread starter ILikeFeet
- Start date
MadMarvainy
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Timeless style, you might as well say cel-shading won't be relevant in 40 years.
GamerJM
Chain Chomp
This is going to get tons of hate from people who can't read between the lines and realize they're saying "a pixel-art 2D Sonic game would sell less than Superstars", which is true. Pixel art turns off normal audiences nowadays (insert but Minecraft).
If that's what they meant then they should have said that. I don't see how 10 years plays into this.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean
That's what Disney thought ten years ago when they gutted their traditional animation department
TheRealWario
Piranha Plant
- Pronouns
- He/him
Why is Sega shooting themselves in the foot by claiming the cheaper to produce, fan-favorite artstyle isn't "viable." It doesn't just seem "viable" for them, it seems favorable given how well Mania turned out.
my guess is they want more than the 1M sales that Sonic Mania achieved
From a game company's perspective, there are a number of disadvantages to making a pixel art game.
The first is that it's hard to get consumers to pay $60 for a pixel art game. Money is always the most important thing for a company, right?
The second is that it's very difficult to differentiate graphically from sequels. In the past, as hardware improved, pixel art naturally improved, but now it's just a matter of style, and there are no technical advances in pixel art. This is a big disadvantage for a long-running series like Sonic or Mario.
No matter how much more powerful the hardware gets, it's just a stylistic difference that makes it harder for pixel art games to stand out from their pixel art predecessors. On the contrary, many people may like the graphical style of its predecessor.
Many people want to buy a new game because they see the graphical advancements in the new game, and if the graphics look similar to the previous game, they will close their wallet without even looking at the game content.
Third, there's also the issue of some children's aversion to pixel art graphics.
This is because many children consider 3D graphics to be good graphics and pixel art graphics to be bad graphics.
In fact, many adults do too, and this can have a negative impact on sales.
The fourth issue is the freedom to create games. 3D graphics are expensive to start with, but once you have the modeling in place, they're easy to change, and there's a lot more you can do with them in terms of expression. Pixel art games are cheaper to start with, but they're harder to change, and there's less you can do with them in terms of expression.
Considering these points, it's easy to see why game companies prefer 3D graphics. Of course, in order to differentiate themselves from the big players, indie game companies often create pixel art games despite the disadvantages, and it seems to be a successful strategy.
The first is that it's hard to get consumers to pay $60 for a pixel art game. Money is always the most important thing for a company, right?
The second is that it's very difficult to differentiate graphically from sequels. In the past, as hardware improved, pixel art naturally improved, but now it's just a matter of style, and there are no technical advances in pixel art. This is a big disadvantage for a long-running series like Sonic or Mario.
No matter how much more powerful the hardware gets, it's just a stylistic difference that makes it harder for pixel art games to stand out from their pixel art predecessors. On the contrary, many people may like the graphical style of its predecessor.
Many people want to buy a new game because they see the graphical advancements in the new game, and if the graphics look similar to the previous game, they will close their wallet without even looking at the game content.
Third, there's also the issue of some children's aversion to pixel art graphics.
This is because many children consider 3D graphics to be good graphics and pixel art graphics to be bad graphics.
In fact, many adults do too, and this can have a negative impact on sales.
The fourth issue is the freedom to create games. 3D graphics are expensive to start with, but once you have the modeling in place, they're easy to change, and there's a lot more you can do with them in terms of expression. Pixel art games are cheaper to start with, but they're harder to change, and there's less you can do with them in terms of expression.
Considering these points, it's easy to see why game companies prefer 3D graphics. Of course, in order to differentiate themselves from the big players, indie game companies often create pixel art games despite the disadvantages, and it seems to be a successful strategy.
AstroOhHey
Shriekbat
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I know this comment is more in relation to a larger scale game like Superstars is to Mania (I don't mean quality-wise there, just it seems like a bigger budget project than Mania was) and whether it'd be as viable in the market with pixel graphics or going full 3D, but pixel-art in general isn't going anywhere. There's still a huge slew of successful indie games that have beautiful pixel-art and I really can't see that trend significantly shifting in the next ten/twenty years.
The more we find out about this take to more I'm sure it's going to be bad, and I was pretty sure it was gonna be bad from the first screenshot.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is probably an upcoming reality that pixel art is going to become less and less relevant as an art style in the coming years as 80's and 90's kids age out of the prime 30-40 demographic and the nostalgia loop heads around to 2000's kids (you can sort of see this shift happening with more PS1/PS2 style indie games) - and therefore pixel art is no longer going to be viable financially for a big IP/studio to invest in especially one like Sonic, where I think they seem more inclined to lean into the new generation who know CGI Sonic from the movies and TV shows, and maybe even the handdrawn animation aspect rather than the pixels of the og games - obviously RPGs are different but even then, they're starting to mix 2D and 3D etc...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey now, don't you bring Toree into this
kidding, I get what you're saying, I just try to give a shout-out to Toree whenever I can
Touya
Moogle Coffee
The 2000's kids also had the GBA and DS where pixel art was the standard, and many early smartphone games like Zenonia used pixel art, as did mid-00s browser games and MMOs. The cohort that got Minish Cap as their first Zelda is currently around 25~28 years old, while the ones that played Black and White as their first Pokémon games are 19~22. The current crop of indies reflects this: Garden Story, Goodboy Galaxy, Moonstone Island, Witchbrook, and Sunvale are all more GBA and browser-inspired than SNES or Mega Drive-inspired.
Mid-to-late 2010s pixel art games like Stardew Valley, Undertale/Deltarune, and Shovel Knight found unexpected popularity with children, completely divorced from the cultural context of the 80s/90s. ("Butt mode" never fails.) These aren't particularly small games either--Stardew sold 20 million copies, something Sonic may never achieve. If anything, kids being too young to remember a time when tech improved seems to make pixel art games more approachable, as they lack the cultural baggage of seeing the style as "old." Between that and exposure to the Super Nintendo and GBA catalogs via NSO, this mode of production is staying in the cultural collective far longer than projected.
Based on these factors, I don't see any realistic outcome where pixel art completely fades as an artistic direction. It's a medium, not a console; oil painters kept painting long after photography rolled around, despite it being declared dead as soon as the first Daguerreotype appeared. We live in an era where a Fleischer Studios-inspired game animated on actual light tables like it was 1933 sold six million copies. Forecasting the end of anything seems premature.
YolkFolk
Tingle
The GBA and DS did have pixel art but it wasn’t the predominant art style in video games. Whatever graphics the home consoles were running at the time is the art style most will associate with that period. During the NES and SNES era, 2D pixel graphics held near total domination unlike in the years following.
AlwaysOnDeck
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's barely viable now. A significany portion of Millenials and Gen-Xers may find it nostalgic, and some Zillenials may appreciate the appeal, but the majority of gamers likely view pixel-art as old and/or ugly.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I dont think pixel art will disappear by any means but i do think for a company like Sega to invest in for their big IP like Sonic - the nostalgia effect of it may be wearing off with younger generations and 3D animation makes more sense for that kind of project moving forward (or web animation/anime influenced styles) - in the indie space it will live on but i dont think it will be as ubiquitous as it once was
Aether
Tingle
Im Mixed on it.
Pixel art moved past a nostalgia thing as it's own style, but the audience in the grand scheme still has a more limited ceiling then 3d going by sales and price in most cases.
There will be an audience, and if you're not a big company targeting big money it will be a viable option, but GOOD pixel art is expensive, and I assume it just won't be feasible with impact on sales and cost for those that talk about "brands" and "pillars".
You also need people with completely different skillets, so less overlap between teams to dynamically reallocate between projects (like Nintendo does a lot)
On the other hand I could ai tools improve to the point that a generation of background art based on a drawn background with specific coarseness level and style selectors , and a good in-between Frage Generator so that the artists only have to do more important key art, Touch ups, or key frames between animations.
Say do the main char frames all by hand, and for background/side characters just the key frames.
Then I could see a good reduction in workload, while keeping control over the style and direction AND total control over the important elements, making them feasible.
Pixel art moved past a nostalgia thing as it's own style, but the audience in the grand scheme still has a more limited ceiling then 3d going by sales and price in most cases.
There will be an audience, and if you're not a big company targeting big money it will be a viable option, but GOOD pixel art is expensive, and I assume it just won't be feasible with impact on sales and cost for those that talk about "brands" and "pillars".
You also need people with completely different skillets, so less overlap between teams to dynamically reallocate between projects (like Nintendo does a lot)
On the other hand I could ai tools improve to the point that a generation of background art based on a drawn background with specific coarseness level and style selectors , and a good in-between Frage Generator so that the artists only have to do more important key art, Touch ups, or key frames between animations.
Say do the main char frames all by hand, and for background/side characters just the key frames.
Then I could see a good reduction in workload, while keeping control over the style and direction AND total control over the important elements, making them feasible.
Regulus Tera
Ruffian
This is less about market expectations and more about 2D pixel artists being a dying breed in the Japanese industry. Nearly everyone interested gets taught 3D skills.
Mer.Saloon
Chain Chomp
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Good pixel art is expensive and difficult to make. And its a very different skill than making just a 2D drawing.
its also really easy to screw up depending how you make the sprites.
Sonic kinda needs really good pixel art because of how big and expressive the characters are. But when you are having characters scaling back and forth between foreground and background, its really not easy to make that look good.
But if thats the case, id love for them to just use 2D drawings or go for a mire stylized and cel shaded look.
its also really easy to screw up depending how you make the sprites.
Sonic kinda needs really good pixel art because of how big and expressive the characters are. But when you are having characters scaling back and forth between foreground and background, its really not easy to make that look good.
But if thats the case, id love for them to just use 2D drawings or go for a mire stylized and cel shaded look.
