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Discussion Game Pitch: They should make a 3D Sonic the Hedgehog game where Sonic controls like a car

Derachi

Derachi

Fresh Eater
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OK, full disclosure: I don’t like Sonic games. 2D or 3D, They’re just not my bag. It’s cool if you like ‘em and it’s cool if you don’t, this thread isn’t about that.

I’ve been playing the newest Forza Motorsport and it has me thinking: They should make a 3D behind-the-back Sonic game where Sonic controls like a car. I’m talking full-on gas pedal on the right analog trigger, brake on the left analog trigger. Hell, give him a full-on handbrake so he can drift. The only difference I think between the controls of a car in Forza Motorsport and this hypothetical Sonic game would be that he has a jump button. Maybe have a higher difficulty where you literally have to shift gears. Manual transmission Sonic.

I’m not kidding. This is not even remotely a joke. I genuinely think a game where you can feather gas and brake pedals to very accurately control Sonic’s speed would be extremely mechanically interesting. Maybe you could even upgrade him to have better handling/braking.

Sonic’s whole deal is he goes fast. I think a game where the challenge comes from managing and controlling that speed would be cool. What do you think?

Before anyone comes in here and asks “why would Sonic have brakes or a manual transmission?” let me just remind you: he’s a bipedal blue hedgehog who runs extremely fast. You’ve already suspended your disbelief, leave it suspended and live a little.
 
Honestly this isn't too crazy and I believe this philosophy was what they had in mind to some aspect between Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Lost World.

In Unleashed (and the boost games from 2008 to 2017) the camera is already pulled close behind Sonic, when boosting you're going at breakneck speeds and you can drift around corners depending on the level design.

With Lost World they had the parkour system with a tiered speed system. Nowhere near as fast as your example or even the boost games I mentioned but the basic concept was there.

It would just take a huge effort for lil Sonic Team, an incredibly strong game direction and really good level design to pull it off. Doubt it will happen from them though after the direction of Frontiers but hey...despite everything, Sonic is still here so it's never a 0% chance of being attempted.
 
Hero of Legend said:
Oh yes, they should then maybe make it a racing game. Add vocal songs with cheesey lyrics about feeling the sunshine. Nah, that'll never work.
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BassForever said:
Boy do I have good news for you then



This game isn't very good though
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Does he have an analog gas pedal? Does he have a handbrake?

I don’t want a racing game. I want a 3D platformer that plays like a racing game
 
Derachi said:
Does he have an analog gas pedal? Does he have a handbrake?

I don’t want a racing game. I want a 3D platformer that plays like a racing game
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I always thought Sonic R was a good idea. The big problem with "Sonic as a car" is that your player character is so much smaller then a car and it creates a weird disconnected. It's hard to explain if you haven't played the game, and maybe it could be done a lot better, but there's something missing when you have car physics on a small character.
 
I actually agree with this. It'd get me interested in a 3D Sonic again but obviously they don't make these games for weirdos like me.

Derachi said:
You’ve already suspended your disbelief, leave it suspended and live and learn.
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yeah-john-wick.gif
 
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I have wanted this for a while, actually!! Controlling Sonic in 3D space has felt weirder and weirder to me in the post-Dreamcast era and having him control (or at the very least, steer) more like a car would be welcome. Happily he does seem to steer better in Frontiers (especially when boosting, which dials down the twitchiness of his lateral direction changes a lot) so hopefully they're on the right path. And while I'm not a big fan of boost, it's close to "hold trigger to accelerate" so aside from the brakes and the manual gearshifting we might be getting closer than you'd think!
(plus an argument could be made that Sonic has a CVT-style transmission that constantly draws the gears out instead of "shifting" them and then we'd still be in car territory)
 
Hero of Legend said:
Oh yes, they should then maybe make it a racing game. Add vocal songs with cheesey lyrics about feeling the sunshine. Nah, that'll never work.
Click to expand...

It didn't really beyond nostalgia. The game is horrendously short, terribly balanced between characters, and while a cool showing of 3d graphics in the era it came in, doesn't even begin to close the gap on the overly simple tracks and lack of content.


... The music is pure 90s stupidity and I do like them all except the credits theme more than anyone has any business doing.
 
You're not going to believe this.
I know Sonic R is used as and example, cause it is that idea taken to the literal extreme, and Unleashed/Generations are great examples with it's drift system and boost management, but also I just want to point out that in ONE Cyberspace level of Frontiers Final Horizons there is a gimmick where they test out Sonic having a gear change system complete with an actual car speedometer.
Could definitely use some work, it is a Sonic game after all, but I think it's really neat.
 
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there's already a well known platform character that made a bad transition to 3d who more or less operated like a car, mostly just launching himself forward and gaining acceleration while you turn him to navigate the environment, and he had a full platform game instead of a racing game to do it in

it was called

Bubsy_3D.png
 
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sup dril

can't believe you came to Famiboards and posted about one of the least-weird things we've gotten up to around here
 
(hi dril)

While I would prefer more open style exploration for a 3D Sonic, this notion isn't all that weird. The boost games already feel like they're designed like a racing game. Look at Sonic Generations - acts are designed primarily as linear action stages about quick reactions, you're holding a button to constantly move forward, you're drifting around corners. Sonic Lost World has a run button that feels like shifting Sonic into another gear compared to just walking around. I've watched videos from Sonic fans from seven years ago that propose a similar concept!



I don't think it needs to be as detailed as an actual car, but having shifting speeds with a focus on turning while in that "run" state sounds like a plausible direction. Hell, Frontiers already kinda does this as its boost is just a glorified run button, something that could use some more gradual acceleration to feel good with.
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
fami: yeah this doesn't sound that bad, good one derachi
dril: this is the most insane man i have ever laid eyes upon
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dril is correct

people who don't even like sonic always coming up with the most insane ideas to "fix" a multi-million dollar franchise

that already exist in other games

and are legendarily bad and terrible
 
batfax said:
dril is correct

people who don't even like sonic always coming up with the most insane ideas to "fix" a multi-million dollar franchise

that already exist in other games

and are legendarily bad and terrible
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Ok but consider this: what if they made bad game again but good this time
 
I think someone made a fanmade game like this once and it felt less like 2D Sonic than the actual 3D Sonics

Hi Dril
 
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Derachi said:
OK, full disclosure: I don’t like Sonic games. 2D or 3D, They’re just not my bag. It’s cool if you like ‘em and it’s cool if you don’t, this thread isn’t about that.

I’ve been playing the newest Forza Motorsport and it has me thinking: They should make a 3D behind-the-back Sonic game where Sonic controls like a car. I’m talking full-on gas pedal on the right analog trigger, brake on the left analog trigger. Hell, give him a full-on handbrake so he can drift. The only difference I think between the controls of a car in Forza Motorsport and this hypothetical Sonic game would be that he has a jump button. Maybe have a higher difficulty where you literally have to shift gears. Manual transmission Sonic.

I’m not kidding. This is not even remotely a joke. I genuinely think a game where you can feather gas and brake pedals to very accurately control Sonic’s speed would be extremely mechanically interesting. Maybe you could even upgrade him to have better handling/braking.

Sonic’s whole deal is he goes fast. I think a game where the challenge comes from managing and controlling that speed would be cool. What do you think?

Before anyone comes in here and asks “why would Sonic have brakes or a manual transmission?” let me just remind you: he’s a bipedal blue hedgehog who runs extremely fast. You’ve already suspended your disbelief, leave it suspended and live a little.
Click to expand...
I don't get what it is about sonic that makes people that don't care about the franchise feel the need to share their opinions about something they clearly know nothing about. Because if you did, you'd realize that this already happened 15 years ago and most 3d sonic games since then have followed that playstyle

 
A fun game that sort of feels like this is Twisted Metal PS3 - every car has a dedicated jump button and can swivel on a dime, which has a really interesting feel.
 
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Could end up being the first 3D Sonic where the control is genuinely good.
 
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blameuflameu said:
I don't get what it is about sonic that makes people that don't care about the franchise feel the need to share their opinions about something they clearly know nothing about. Because if you did, you'd realize that this already happened 15 years ago and most 3d sonic games since then have followed that playstyle

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OK so do you pull the right analog trigger of, for example, an Xbox controller to make Sonic go, with Sonic’s speed being determined by how hard you pull the trigger? Like I could pull it just a little bit and he walks? And then when I need to make a sharp turn, I pull the other trigger to apply braking force to slow him down?

Could you conceivably replace the controller with a racing wheel+pedals setup and still play it?
 
Derachi said:
OK so do you pull the right analog trigger of, for example, an Xbox controller to make Sonic go, with Sonic’s speed being determined by how hard you pull the trigger? Like I could pull it just a little bit and he walks? And then when I need to make a sharp turn, I pull the other trigger to apply braking force to slow him down?

Could you conceivably replace the controller with a racing wheel+pedals setup and still play it?
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Literally yes lmao, except it's on the analogue stick, because sonic is a platformer, he needs to move in an open space in all directions not just left and right. The way you're describing it would give sonic tank controls and I have no idea why you'd want that especially in 2023. If you tilt the stick a tiny bit hell walk. Move it further, he'll jog, move it all the way he'll run. Then you have the boost button which sets you all the way off. So you have analogue controls just like you said, except it actually controls well and isn't arbitrarily mapped out to racing controls for literally no reason. The drift is on the trigger just like you had it
 
How about this guy?
1200px-SMO_Artwork_Jaxi.png
A fast character in a 3D stage that is hard to handle. Could a 3D Sonic play similarly to him?
 
blameuflameu said:
Literally yes lmao, except it's on the analogue stick, because sonic is a platformer, he needs to move in an open space in all directions not just left and right. The way you're describing it would give sonic tank controls and I have no idea why you'd want that especially in 2023. If you tilt the stick a tiny bit hell walk. Move it further, he'll jog, move it all the way he'll run. Then you have the boost button which sets you all the way off. So you have analogue controls just like you said, except it actually controls well and isn't arbitrarily mapped out to racing controls for literally no reason. The drift is on the trigger just like you had it
Click to expand...
I think you fundamentally misunderstood what I was pitching. I watched the video you posted and I’m not saying “sonic should have analog movement,” I’m saying he should control like a car with a jump button. There are parts of that video where he’s moving laterally, left and right, while moving directly forward, and that’s 100% counter to what I’m saying because that isn’t how cars work.

What I want isn’t a typical 3D platformer. I don’t want “3D Mario but he moves fast.” I want “Forza Motorsport 2023 but the car is a Blue Hedgehog and the track is Green Hill Zone.” Sonic’s whole focus, his whole raison d’être, is going fast. A racing simulator is the same thing: you are supposed to go fast. I don’t see why it’s so hard to comprehend why a car’s control scheme might actually work better for a game where you’re ostensibly a race car with legs.
 
blameuflameu said:
Literally yes lmao, except it's on the analogue stick, because sonic is a platformer, he needs to move in an open space in all directions not just left and right. The way you're describing it would give sonic tank controls and I have no idea why you'd want that especially in 2023. If you tilt the stick a tiny bit hell walk. Move it further, he'll jog, move it all the way he'll run. Then you have the boost button which sets you all the way off. So you have analogue controls just like you said, except it actually controls well and isn't arbitrarily mapped out to racing controls for literally no reason. The drift is on the trigger just like you had it
Click to expand...
Doesn't "tank controls" mean forward and backward on one stick and left-right on the other stick? Because what Derachi is describing is not that, it's Forza controls, or Gran Turismo controls, and they work great when the point of a game is to go really fast but maintain steering control without accidentally slinging to the left or right when you're moving at top speed.
 
iag said:
Can Sonic tail brake or is that just available for when playing with Tails?

I can’t tail brake anyways
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do you mean trail brake? Where you gently push the brake while accelerating around a corner to get the back end to rotate further?

I mean, some games have given Sonic a drift button, so 😅
 
Quoted by: iag
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chocolate_supra said:
Doesn't "tank controls" mean forward and backward on one stick and left-right on the other stick? Because what Derachi is describing is not that, it's Forza controls, or Gran Turismo controls, and they work great when the point of a game is to go really fast but maintain steering control without accidentally slinging to the left or right when you're moving at top speed.
Click to expand...

Tank controls are more or less how a car or any other vehicle moves. Forward and back and turning. To change directions while moving forward, you move the one stick (or d-pad) to the left or right while continuing to move forward, either with the up direction or an acceleration button. Turning while not moving forward would have your character pivot on the spot, like a tank. Moving a character in this fashion was put to great use in the original Resident Evil games, maintaining tension and limiting control in tense and narrow environments, and extremely poor use for a platformer in Bubsy 3D, where simply navigating a level was a nightmare and most players would quickly opt to simply jump everywhere instead instead of running because, as a means of movement, it was god awful. Having a turn break or something might help, but... Why not just make the character not move like absolute trash? You can have a turnbreak while going fast without literally moving like a car.

Derachi said:
What I want isn’t a typical 3D platformer. I don’t want “3D Mario but he moves fast.” I want “Forza Motorsport 2023 but the car is a Blue Hedgehog and the track is Green Hill Zone.” Sonic’s whole focus, his whole raison d’être, is going fast. A racing simulator is the same thing: you are supposed to go fast. I don’t see why it’s so hard to comprehend why a car’s control scheme might actually work better for a game where you’re ostensibly a race car with legs.
Click to expand...

Oh, this is a "I fundamentally misunderstand Sonic because of his gimmick as a character is all that defines him in my mind" thread, where actual platforming and exploration gameplay doesn't have any rhyme or reason to exist and Sonic should merely move towards the goal and that's it.
 
batfax said:
Oh, this is a "I fundamentally misunderstand Sonic because of his gimmick as a character is all that defines him in my mind" thread, where actual platforming and exploration gameplay doesn't have any rhyme or reason to exist and Sonic should merely move towards the goal and that's it.
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Kinda getting a little aggressive here don't you think?
 
batfax said:
Oh, this is a "I fundamentally misunderstand Sonic because of his gimmick as a character is all that defines him in my mind" thread, where actual platforming and exploration gameplay doesn't have any rhyme or reason to exist and Sonic should merely move towards the goal and that's it.
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Actually it’s a “hey I have an idea for a game where an existing character controls differently” thread. I didn’t say any of that, and I‘ll politely ask you not put words in my mouth.

Games in a series can be different things. Take Mario for example. Super Mario 64 and Sunshine are games where you go into a level, accomplish exploratory goals and are rewarded with a star. But Super Mario 3D World is a game about simply getting to the end of a level. They are both 3D Mario games. I’m not asking Sega to replace existing 3D Sonic games. I am simply saying “I think it’d be cool if they did a game that was slightly different.”
 
Derachi said:
There are parts of that video where he’s moving laterally, left and right, while moving directly forward, and that’s 100% counter to what I’m saying because that isn’t how cars work.
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I know a few games where it's super fast vehicles can instantly move to the side.
Derachi said:
What I want isn’t a typical 3D platformer. I don’t want “3D Mario but he moves fast.” I want “Forza Motorsport 2023 but the car is a Blue Hedgehog and the track is Green Hill Zone.” Sonic’s whole focus, his whole raison d’être, is going fast. A racing simulator is the same thing: you are supposed to go fast. I don’t see why it’s so hard to comprehend why a car’s control scheme might actually work better for a game where you’re ostensibly a race car with legs.
Click to expand...
Modern Sonic in Unleashed/Generations feels quite stiff compared to a standard platformer character, basically constantly moving forward. You are using drift constantly. You are already basically learning a race track when playing those levels, finding shortcuts to cut down your time splits. You just don't control him with a gas pedal because that would make level design awful if you need to turn around and go the other way, which is part of why Stomping exists, to cut all forward movement. There's a reason they only went full in on Car Mode once in a game that was received awfully.

And then Sonic in Frontiers feels the best he's felt in 3D since SA1 while still having that hallway boost gameplay and makes me realize, nah, him controlling mostly normal is perfectly fine.
I would like the drift back, it's fun as hell to do it with Amy in Frontiers.
 
If whether or not it fits into the series is important, imagine Mario or even a totally unrelated character like a Ninja Turtle moving and navigating a stage this way instead. Does it still sound silly and un-fun to explore a level of their world in this fashion? Wouldn't a racing game be more appropriate? As JazzyFuture says, something similar does exist for Sonic, but less restrictive and functional in the context of a Sonic game.

Man, if this is too aggressive, fine. Whatever. It sounds silly and weird to me, but I'll stop raining on the parade if it's too much.
 
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I don't know about any of this, but I remember the Sonic Unleashed demo was the most fun I've ever had with 3D Sonic (and Sonic in general aside from Rush, which is my favorite Sonic game).

Back then I got a PS3 from my parents but had no money to actually buy games, so I went crazy downloading demos lol Having easy access to game demos was actually novel at that time. And Sonic Unleashed had one of the best demos I've ever played, the first stage was incredible and I remember playing it over and over until I could consistently S rank it.

Unfortunately, when I finally was able to purchase the full game, it kind of sucked lol the first stage was still amazing, but the werewolf sections were the main meat of
the game and were insufferable. The other daytime stages got a little too complicated for me to master as well, and I ended up never finishing the game.

One day Sonic will click for me. Maybe.
 
This pitch sounds better than some of the 3D Sonic games I’ve played so sure give it a try.

Also hi Dril, big fan of your “walking backwards into hell” tweet lol.
 
I could see that as a spinoff maybe. The boost games introduced crazy speed necessitating really long levels, creating a lot of work that you'll only see for a split second. And a game like this would do the same thing, and we'd get the same boring hallway level design we see there.

But for the main series I think they should slow things down and focus on getting movement to feel satisfying like they did in the classics, and adventure 1 and 2. We don't need crazy speed, we need gaining and maintaining speed while platforming to feel good. Sonic's gameplay is not "all about going fast".
 
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Leo said:
I don't know about any of this, but I remember the Sonic Unleashed demo was the most fun I've ever had with 3D Sonic (and Sonic in general aside from Rush, which is my favorite Sonic game).

Back then I got a PS3 from my parents but had no money to actually buy games, so I went crazy downloading demos lol Having easy access to game demos was actually novel at that time. And Sonic Unleashed had one of the best demos I've ever played, the first stage was incredible and I remember playing it over and over until I could consistently S rank it.

Unfortunately, when I finally was able to purchase the full game, it kind of sucked lol the first stage was still amazing, but the werewolf sections were the main meat of
the game and were insufferable. The other daytime stages got a little too complicated for me to master as well, and I ended up never finishing the game.

One day Sonic will click for me. Maybe.
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I'd recommend Generations if that's the case. Unleashed is bogged down by some truly awful progression, and yeah Unleashed's daytime stages are just constant marathons. Generations has the same general idea but is a lot more approachable in difficulty, boost levels that (mostly) aren't 6 minutes long, and has a much better other half with the Classic Sonic stages.
And hey, if you want to experience the Unleashed Daytime levels but at a good framerate and no mandatory collectibles, fans ported the main acts to Generations on PC ages ago.
 
The whole point of Sonic Frontiers was to allow Sonic to be more fluid in his movements and not feel like a car.

Go play Sonic Forces if you want to play a game where he feels like a car.
 
JazzyFuture said:
I'd recommend Generations if that's the case. Unleashed is bogged down by some truly awful progression, and yeah Unleashed's daytime stages are just constant marathons. Generations has the same general idea but is a lot more approachable in difficulty, boost levels that (mostly) aren't 6 minutes long, and has a much better other half with the Classic Sonic stages.
And hey, if you want to experience the Unleashed Daytime levels but at a good framerate and no mandatory collectibles, fans ported the main acts to Generations on PC ages ago.
Click to expand...

I did buy Generations but ended up never playing because my PS3 died before I could. It's the one Sonic game I wish they ported to the Switch. Hopefully they will one day.
 
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Here you go OP



Mango said:
The whole point of Sonic Frontiers was to allow Sonic to be more fluid in his movements and not feel like a car.

Go play Sonic Forces if you want to play a game where he feels like a car.
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To be fair, Sonic Forces is less like controlling a car and more like controlling a dragster.
 
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