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News Five billionaires, a metal tube, and an ocean: One Titanic mistake

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Branduil

Branduil

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Rescuers on Wednesday rushed more ships and vessels to the area where a submersible disappeared on its way to the Titanic wreckage site, hoping underwater sounds they detected for a second straight day might help narrow their search in an increasingly urgent mission.
Crews were scouring an area twice the size of Connecticut in waters 2 1/2 miles deep, said Captain Jamie Frederick of the First Coast Guard District, who noted that authorities are still holding out hope of saving the five passengers onboard the Titan.
“This is a search and rescue mission, 100%,” he said. ”... We’ll continue to put every available asset that we have in an effort to find the Titan and the crew members.”
But even those who expressed optimism warned that many obstacles remain: from pinpointing the vessel’s location, to reaching it with rescue equipment, to bringing it to the surface — assuming it’s still intact. And all that has to happen before the passengers’ oxygen supply runs out, which some have estimated might happen as early as Thursday morning.

Meanwhile, newly uncovered allegations suggest there had been significant warnings made about vessel safety during the submersible’s development.
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So let's talk about the story of the missing, poorly-constructed death machine that OceanGate sold as a way to see the Titanic. A classic case of hubris and consequences? A sad case of mean people online othering billionaires? The Titanic, 100 years later, still proving its worth as a killer of the rich and well-to-do?
 
Of course StarLink was their method of communication with the surface

But seriously, the odds of survival here are insurmountable. It would be impossible to "dock" and transfer everyone to a rescue vehicle. They're not going to hoist the submersible the entire way back up to the surface. This is their grave and has been since the moment they lost contact.

As morbid as it sounds, the best case scenario here is that they have already experienced the instant, painless depressurization of their submersible
 
I wouldn't be against some sort of international law banning tourism expeditions to the Titanic. I understand scientists and historians sending stuff down to study the wreck, but tourists? Let this mass graveyard be.
 
bellydrum said:
Of course StarLink was their method of communication with the surface

But seriously, the odds of survival here are insurmountable. It would be impossible to "dock" and transfer everyone to a rescue vehicle. They're not going to hoist the submersible the entire way back up to the surface. This is their grave and has been since the moment they lost contact.

As morbid as it sounds, the best case scenario here is that they have already experienced the instant, painless depressurization of their submersible
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Yeah I would definitely want the instant death option in this scenario, especially since it seems like the sub is woefully undersupplied for this event.
But who could have predicted the possibility of something going wrong on a trip 10,000 feet under the ocean? Yeah sure they got lost a couple of times before, but that was just a one-time or two-time thing.
 
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Been following this on NYT…weird story for sure. People have been very skeptical on the submersible design for years, a kid of the missing CEO is like live tweeting Blink 182 concerts…what the hell is going on.

It’s estimated they have about 20 hours of air left. Hopefully rescue teams will pick up on something soon
 
Remember how in Mario 64 the submarine disappears in Dire Dire Docks after you get the star and no matter what you can never see it again?

Yeah
 
Mekanos said:
Remember how in Mario 64 the submarine disappears in Dire Dire Docks after you get the star and no matter what you can never see it again?

Yeah
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Hopefully if they're still alive they can pass the time waiting for rescue by playing Mario 64 on their Logitech controller.
 
The sub got lost in an outing prior to this one, the materials are not rated for the depth the sub was going, the CEO was publicly giving interviews talking about how unnecessary safety precautions are, and another where he questioned how much skill it could take to make a submarine, and there are other warning signs that this was going to be a doomed voyage that are slipping my mind.

There were SO MANY red flags, but rich people spend so much time being insulated from consequences by their wealth that they think they're invincible and that they actually know more than anyone else.
 
Monster Mash said:
The sub got lost in an outing prior to this one, the materials are not rated for the depth the sub was going, the CEO was publicly giving interviews talking about how unnecessary safety precautions are, and another where he questioned how much skill it could take to make a submarine, and there are other warning signs that this was going to be a doomed voyage that are slipping my mind.

There were SO MANY red flags, but rich people spend so much time being insulated from consequences by their wealth that they think they're invincible and that they actually know more than anyone else.
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I have progressed from "little sympathy" to "active contempt"
 
I pray every night....for my family and loved ones, for a lot of things. These people are not one of those things sorry.
 
While I admire their commitment to reproduce the true Titanic experience, actually subjecting themselves to dying from drowning and/or hypothermia is a little extreme.

Branduil said:
The Titanic, 100 years later, still proving its worth as a killer of the rich and well-to-do?
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Fuck the rich, what about all the third and second class passengers who unlike the rich people on board had little to no access to lifeboats and no way out?
 
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what's worse going out on a faulty unregulated submarine going far deeper then it is capable off for 6 figures, or the rich people who want to be the 1000th person to climb mount Everest and get themselves killed that way
 
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¯\＿(ツ)＿/¯

EDIT: Oh, huh, if you put _ between two sets of characters, it has issues displaying and corrects itself as a italic. Did Famiboards know about this bug?

Used a longer underscore to get around it.
 
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definitely nightmare fuel and darkly funny at the same time. this makes me respect James Cameron even more, which I didn't think was possible. never realized the titanic sank so deep.
 
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This is going to be an awful, awful way to die in a lot of panic, fear, disorientation, suffocation and pain over a number of days. These expeditions and the submersible were the hubris and overconfidence of the obscenely rich, ignoring obvious safety concerns. But my sympathies are with the families that will mourn them, not all of whom are doing other shit on social media.

One of those in the sub is still only a teenager. I don’t much care for shitty memes cheering on awful deaths while people are in the process of those awful deaths and while rescuers are scrambling to save lives either.
 
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I wonder if they will ever find them. Planes are fitted up their asses with tracking devices and we still managed to lose Malaysian 370
 
NarohDethan said:
I wonder if they will ever find them. Planes are fitted up their asses with tracking devices and we still managed to lose Malaysian 370
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My understanding is the area they're searching is about the size of Connecticut, only with the added problem of depth. That sub may be lost to the ocean for a long, long time.
 
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Let's visit the wreck of the Titanic in a fucking soda can, what could possibly go wrong?
 
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EvilChameleon said:
I wouldn't be against some sort of international law banning tourism expeditions to the Titanic. I understand scientists and historians sending stuff down to study the wreck, but tourists? Let this mass graveyard be.
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Adventure tourism has always been terrible, for a great many reasons, one need only look at what it's done to Nepal to confirm that.
PixelKnight said:
This is going to be an awful, awful way to die in a lot of panic, fear, disorientation, suffocation and pain over a number of days. These expeditions and the submersible were the hubris and overconfidence of the obscenely rich, ignoring obvious safety concerns. But my sympathies are with the families that will mourn them, not all of whom are doing other shit on social media. I don’t much care for shitty memes cheering on awful deaths while people are in the process of those awful deaths and while rescuers are scrambling to save lives either.
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If this were some unavoidable accident, I'd be more in line here. If it were in any way relatable, I'd agree again. If they were unaware of the risks, I'd agree a third time.

None of those things are true here.

Given the safety record we're hearing about, this was entirely avoidable.
Given that we're talking about a $250,000 per person leisure dive to see the Titanic that less than 1% of people could ever contemplate doing, it is not the least bit relatable.
Given the fact that the ocean is merciless, that even being in an above-water craft is precarious (sea-faring labourers have one of the highest occupational mortality rates in the world, even when excluding fishing boats like those seen in Deadliest Catch and whatnot) and that waivers were signed, the risks were entirely known.

It's really hard to show sympathy at the best of times, but it's almost impossible when it's so utterly unrelatable as this story is from every angle. The surviving family saw their loved ones about to do one of the most fatality-inducing things a person might ever do, in the most novel possible way, paying nearly 5 times the average annual US salary to do it... and it happened anyways. At least one of the relatives couldn't hear thoughts and prayers over the sound of Blink-182 in concert, because "they would've wanted me to attend right now" (barely-paraphrased quote there).

Given that surviving family is all about to inherit millions/billions, given the reckless abandon they exercised through their actions leading to this moment and given that the only family to speak up has been rather blasé about the whole thing... I have trouble bending myself out of shape to exercise sympathy.
 
Terrell said:
Adventure tourism has always been terrible, for a great many reasons, one need only look at what it's done to Nepal to confirm that.

If this were some unavoidable accident, I'd be more in line here. If it were in any way relatable, I'd agree again. If they were unaware of the risks, I'd agree a third time.

None of those things are true here.

Given the safety record we're hearing about, this was entirely avoidable.
Given that we're talking about a $250,000 per person leisure dive to see the Titanic that less than 1% of people could ever contemplate doing, it is not the least bit relatable.
Given the fact that the ocean is merciless, that even being in an above-water craft is precarious (sea-faring labourers have one of the highest occupational mortality rates in the world, even when excluding fishing boats like those seen in Deadliest Catch and whatnot) and that waivers were signed, the risks were entirely known.

It's really hard to show sympathy at the best of times, but it's almost impossible when it's so utterly unrelatable as this story is from every angle. The surviving family saw their loved ones about to do one of the most fatality-inducing things a person might ever do, in the most novel possible way, paying nearly 5 times the average annual US salary to do it... and it happened anyways. At least one of the relatives couldn't hear thoughts and prayers over the sound of Blink-182 in concert, because "they would've wanted me to attend right now" (barely-paraphrased quote there).

Given that surviving family is all about to inherit millions/billions, given the reckless abandon they exercised through their actions leading to this moment and given that the only family to speak up has been rather blasé about the whole thing... I have trouble bending myself out of shape to exercise sympathy.
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That a teenager on Twitter shows no regard for their stepfather’s impending doom doesn’t mean I have no sympathy for the other family members- their actions don’t mean I disregard everyone else processing it in quieter ways, and banding the family all together under the actions of one feels unfair. Their commentary talking to reporters is available elsewhere.

There’s also another teenager on the submersible, and I have way more sympathy for a very young person dying a horrible death after likely believing their dad and the professionals all saying it’s OK, than I do the older adults and professional explorers who had all the info and ignored all the signs.

On top of that, I think there’s a difference between criticism of stupid misadventure on behalf of rich adults who should know better re. the general hubris and pointless destructiveness of adventure tourism, and making shitty memes at the same time as people are trying to save lives. There’s plenty of time afterwards to point out the sheer stupidity of the misadventure, but laughing at people while they die horrible deaths, when that includes a 19-year-old, (re. the comments the OP mentions) just feels like pointless dark humour that could at least wait a few days. Re. your post, disregarding all other family reactions based on a further teenager, when other family members have been commenting in the press, just seems like wanting to disregard any kind of nuance here. The teen isn’t the ‘only’ family member to speak to the media unless you only get your news from Twitter. Not everyone engages with the media entirely through arguing with celebrities on Twitter, nor are family members required to speak up on social media to be worthy of sympathy for the stress of knowing loved ones are dead or dying, particularly young people.

Yes, adventure tourism sucks. So do billionaires. So does this sub, the whole escapade and the amount of resources rescue efforts have to put in to save explorers. All of that is true and a colossal waste of time, life and money (particularly when rescuers can end up dead too). But I can still have sympathy for a dead 19 year old kid and not disregard the grief of their aunt, cousin etc based on the indifference of one kid if you only read Twitter. There’s a few tragic elements mixed up in the wider mess of stupidity, incompetence, hubris, tourism and indecent levels of cash. Hence my level of sympathy for relatives of dead young people, who don’t have to be on Twitter to be worthy of it.
 
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Not to be frivolous about it but
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One further piece of criticism I did have for the expedition (on top of everything mentioned in the thread) is the evident sheer scale of any rescue operation, if a rescue operation would be required. The level of stupidity in planning an expedition while knowing that the only people that can help is serious military-level effort that is days away. Like a lot of adventure tourism, this has sucked up a huge amount of international effort for what is a pointless prestige activity.

Then the level of media coverage based on the Titanic, the wealth of the passengers, it being record-breaking by being so far down (and so likely they won’t be rescued). The whole thing is just such a stupid plan based on perceived invincibility and shows up exactly why so many mountain climbers end up dead too.
 
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Lot of harsh posts in here. Yes there has been a lot of foolishness leading to this, but these are people with families.
 
PixelKnight said:
SNIP
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Just wanted to add that I agree with pretty much everything about your posts in this thread.

Adventure tourism sucks. Billionaire CEO's piloting poorly constructed death trap submarines is mind numbingly stupid.

That all being said: At the end of the day, a group of people are suffocating to death at the bottom of the ocean, and as far as we can tell the only recourse they've been able to find is banging on the side of the submarine every 30 minutes to try and get attention from rescuers. That's not funny or ironic, it's just pure abject nightmare fuel. I wouldn't want to inflict that sort of experience on any human being, whatever my personal feelings towards them.
 
neil said:
Lot of harsh posts in here. Yes there has been a lot of foolishness leading to this, but these are people with families.
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I don't have sympathies for billionaires who get themselves killed over their own stupidity. Sucks for the kid that got dragged along.
 
PixelKnight said:
That a teenager on Twitter shows no regard for their stepfather’s impending doom doesn’t mean I have no sympathy for the other family members- their actions don’t mean I disregard everyone else processing it in quieter ways, and banding the family all together under the actions of one feels unfair. Their commentary talking to reporters is available elsewhere.

There’s also another teenager on the submersible, and I have way more sympathy for a very young person dying a horrible death after likely believing their dad and the professionals all saying it’s OK, than I do the older adults and professional explorers who had all the info and ignored all the signs.

On top of that, I think there’s a difference between criticism of stupid misadventure on behalf of rich adults who should know better re. the general hubris and pointless destructiveness of adventure tourism, and making shitty memes at the same time as people are trying to save lives. There’s plenty of time afterwards to point out the sheer stupidity of the misadventure, but laughing at people while they die horrible deaths, when that includes a 19-year-old, (re. the comments the OP mentions) just feels like pointless dark humour that could at least wait a few days. Re. your post, disregarding all other family reactions based on a further teenager, when other family members have been commenting in the press, just seems like wanting to disregard any kind of nuance here. The teen isn’t the ‘only’ family member to speak to the media unless you only get your news from Twitter. Not everyone engages with the media entirely through arguing with celebrities on Twitter, nor are family members required to speak up on social media to be worthy of sympathy for the stress of knowing loved ones are dead or dying, particularly young people.

Yes, adventure tourism sucks. So do billionaires. So does this sub, the whole escapade and the amount of resources rescue efforts have to put in to save explorers. All of that is true and a colossal waste of time, life and money (particularly when rescuers can end up dead too). But I can still have sympathy for a dead 19 year old kid and not disregard the grief of their aunt, cousin etc based on the indifference of one kid if you only read Twitter. There’s a few tragic elements mixed up in the wider mess of stupidity, incompetence, hubris, tourism and indecent levels of cash. Hence my level of sympathy for relatives of dead young people, who don’t have to be on Twitter to be worthy of it.
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Sorry, my mistake, that was the first family commentary and didn't care to hear more. I'll admit I've been mostly tuning the story out.

On the 19yo... where was his mother in all of this? The thing with thrill-seekers is that they have enablers. Those parents sent that child to die, because no 19yo should be allowed to play with their life as egregiously as this excursion would have. You want me to feel sympathy and it comes out as contempt for both of the kid's parents in regards to him specifically.

As for the other surviving family, the best I can muster is not to show open malice toward them. Not having sympathy does not equate to malice and frankly resent the implication being made in this post that one equates to the other.

And while, yes, some of what's been posted online is really mean-spirited, my headspace is already occupied with sympathy for victims of open hate campaigns against them, so the best I can offer to the families is my silence, not my sympathy or apologies for someone else's actions.

I'm not the internet's babysitter, if people want to dunk on billionaires after all the irreparable harm and violence they bring upon society, well... I don't know them, but I know that billionaires by their existence cause plenty of suffering and death to plenty of people and their response to that is to not lose any sleep over it, continue funding right-wing election campaigns across the globe and to stymie the progress that would end so much institutional death and violence, so... I dunno, considering the litany of reprehensible deeds the rich offer to the rest of the world, I'm inclined to give the insensitivity a pass on the grounds of the proverb "you get only what you give". Open contempt returned in kind.
 
Terrell said:
Sorry, my mistake, that was the first family commentary and didn't care to hear more. I'll admit I've been mostly tuning the story out.

On the 19yo... where was his mother in all of this? The thing with thrill-seekers is that they have enablers. Those parents sent that child to die, because no 19yo should be allowed to play with their life as egregiously as this excursion would have. You want me to feel sympathy and it comes out as contempt for both of the kid's parents in regards to him specifically.

As for the other surviving family, the best I can muster is not to show open malice toward them. Not having sympathy does not equate to malice and frankly resent the implication being made in this post that one equates to the other.

And while, yes, some of what's been posted online is really mean-spirited, my headspace is already occupied with sympathy for victims of open hate campaigns against them, so the best I can offer to the families is my silence, not my sympathy or apologies for someone else's actions.

I'm not the internet's babysitter, if people want to dunk on billionaires after all the irreparable harm and violence they bring upon society, well... I don't know them, but I know that billionaires by their existence cause plenty of suffering and death to plenty of people and their response to that is to not lose any sleep over it, continue funding right-wing election campaigns across the globe and to stymie the progress that would end so much institutional death and violence, so... I dunno, considering the litany of reprehensible deeds the rich offer to the rest of the world, I'm inclined to give the insensitivity a pass on the grounds of the proverb "you get only what you give". Open contempt returned in kind.
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Fair enough. Indifference towards the passengers as a whole I totally understand, it’s more the nuance of the 19-year-old likely being way less informed and relying on multiple professional explorers that I find means I feel sad for them in particular.

That indifference on Fami is very different to the malice of mocking the dying in Twitter memes, and I apologise if my post came off differently, I tried to seperate the two.

Indifference towards the family and assuming the teenager speaks for them all is another element, in that I find the teens opinions have been elevated over other family members speaking to journalists because a) Twitter and b) a celebrity getting involved.

I don’t think we’re so far apart, really- I find the whole thing a completely inevitable example of stupidity too, and have little sympathy for the four older adults on the sub. I can understand the stress their family members are under though.
 
Yes, it's sad that a teenager died because his parents stupidity, but my sympathy is tempered by the fact that the news media is obsessed with these particular deaths, while ignoring the 500 migrants near Greece who died when their overloaded boat sank (essentially murdered by European fascism). Make no mistake, billionaires murder innocent people (parents, children, old, young) for as long as they exist; this is just a rare case where their venal stupidity and arrogance resulted in consequences they could not externalize. Unlike the oligarchic corruption they've built through capitalism, the ocean can not be bought; they cannot demand that the seas accept a sacrifice of the poor in their place. The ocean will kill you without regard to status.
 
Branduil said:
Yes, it's sad that a teenager died because his parents stupidity, but my sympathy is tempered by the fact that the news media is obsessed with these particular deaths, while ignoring the 500 migrants near Greece who died when their overloaded boat sank (essentially murdered by European fascism). Make no mistake, billionaires murder innocent people (parents, children, old, young) for as long as they exist; this is just a rare case where their venal stupidity and arrogance resulted in consequences they could not externalize. Unlike the oligarchic corruption they've built through capitalism, the ocean can not be bought; they cannot demand that the seas accept a sacrifice of the poor in their place. The ocean will kill you without regard to status.
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Yeah, I was just gonna say, another facet is the media not shutting up about it, attempting to manifest sympathy for the plight of the wealthy (for which they have a known and storied history of doing), to a level that rarely comes about for victims of institutional violence (unless it involves personal gun violence, and then there's usually an angle the wealthy want to exploit), and I think people online are just... not having it anymore.
 
Terrell said:
Yeah, I was just gonna say, another facet is the media not shutting up about it, attempting to manifest sympathy for the plight of the wealthy (for which they have a known and storied history of doing), to a level that rarely comes about for victims of institutional violence (unless it involves personal gun violence, and then there's usually an angle the wealthy want to exploit), and I think people online are just... not having it anymore.
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Yeah this is a very fair point. I think media interest is piqued not just by the wealth but also the Titanic element which gives immediate imagery to run with the story and easily grab extra info to run extra stories about. Which is obviously completely unfair given how the media is indifferent at best to refugees in small boats in the med (or, heaven forbid, the English Channel). Similarly, Ukraine is still engaged in large scale warfare with an ongoing refugee crisis as whole cities get demolished, but the media pretty much called it a day earlier this year. ‘Race to save multiple rich British explorers stuck down near the Titanic’ gets automatic column inches in comparison. I guess the immediacy aspect of the story is fair, it’s also a historic rescue in terms of depth but the rest of it isn’t when that record-breaking element is the result of severe stupidity from many people who should know better. I doubt any of the press would be documenting and calling for international maritime rescue the next time a small boat full of refugees fleeing north and west across Europe is in trouble.
 
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The media are reporting on this because there's an active race against time element that allows for rolling coverage and updates, which keeps viewers engaged.

Anyone thinking this is just getting reported on because the involved victims are billionaires is forgetting that the media did the exact same thing for the rescue of the Chilean miners in 2010, and the rescue of the junior football team from the Tham Luang caves in 2018.

It's being reported on because it's another story where a rescue needs to be staged against a ticking clock, and that always generates media interest.

I would make the observation that there is a world of difference between not having sympathy for those involved (which is perfectly normal given the wealth involved) and actively joking and memeing about those involved (which is just tacky and crass). I say this as someone who got a warning last year when I joked about Queen Elizabeth and her family all being lizards after the announcement of her death. I thought I was being edgy and funny, but I was actually just being crass, and I'd say the same about anyone who actively makes edgy jokes or memes about these people dying at the bottom of the ocean as it happens.
 
I think it's safe to say that these people are dead now. If they weren't already dead hours ago when this rickety tube collapsed unto itself because four absolute dipshits, two of them billionaires, ignored all common sense and safety precautions and nobody involved tried to prevent a 19yo from being dragged into a crappy iron coffin. It might be crass but it's also difficult to not see these events as karmic retribution against a ruling class of wealth hoarders that cause more pain and suffering by their sheer existence than some randos on twitter memeing about them. I don't wish this fate on anyone and I feel sorry for the kid. But I also don't see the point in berating others for being glib about the stupid and completely unnecessary death of some assholes that wouldn't spare a millisecond of a thought on anyone here. With any luck other rich people will see the reactions to this and see that large parts of the population absolutely despise them.
 
Gonna keep it real I'm in 100% RIP BOZO mode on this shit, except I feel bad a kid got dragged into this. Won't stop me absolutely clowning on 2 more billionaires down though.
 
You can't talk about the online response to this situation without looking at the context it's taking place in. We're talking about a few crass jokes from powerless people, about some billionaires who are basically already dead due to their own actions, not anyone else's. Those billionaires, and every billionaire, do more than tell some crass jokes; they actively ruin the lives of the rest of us, ruin the planet we live on, and attempt to claim all of nature as their fiefdom. Is it any surprise, then, that some people are going to view this as a humorous case of karmic retribution?

But even more than that: this is the world THEY built. They built a world where empathy is a vice, greed and callousness a virtue, not us. They built a world where monstrous behavior is rewarded and reinforced, not us. So when they build a literal death machine, not us, and willingly climb into it, well... you can't build Jurassic Park and then complain that it's full of carnivorous beasts.
 
Like, the only reason this is news is because white rich men are involved. Migrant boats get capsized every other week, killing hundreds, and the news outlets don't seem to give much of a shit.

Even comparing it to the Chilean mine accident is dumb since the owners of the mine walked away with no repercussions.
 
You are being banned for one week for unwarranted hostility. -Derachi, Irene, Red Monster
JazzPotatoes said:
The comparison was made on the basis of media coverage.

The media have no power to actually apply legal repercussions or pursue justice, so no idea why the above point needs to be made.
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You know what JazzPotatoes? You can just kindly go fuck off. I'm tired of seeing you in these threads and I'm tired of you being let run free and shit in these type of threads. I'm just fucking sick of your shit.

Maybe if you could put yourself in a position of people like us who are poor and disabled and understand as to why we don't fucking care about some dumbass billionares that would absolutely call us slurs and make fun of us at any given point, some openly probably wishing us dead, because they see as "Bleeding the system dry", meanwhile get tax breaks all the fuck, maybe, just maybe, you'd understand why people are making fun of their shit situation.

And saying Media has no power? Literally the media fucking spread racism, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, and all other sorts of misinformation. They can be equally held responsible for actively harming my communities and other communities. So yes, media can be responsible for relying information to the public, both good and harmful shit.
 
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