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Discussion Do Camelot's anime OCs have a chance of returning? Do you want them to return?

Do you want them back?

  • Let them in, they are cool

    Votes: 18 56.3%

  • Keep anime trash out of my Mario games!

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Total voters
    32
Yzz

Yzz

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Mario sport titles are not known for having unique rosters, well except those RPGs developed by Camelot...
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Unlike, say Paper Mario partners, the anime people of Camelot sport titles are not very well remembered, but there's no doubt that they gave those games a lot of identity. The last Camelot Mario games, Mario Tennis Aces and Mario Golf Super Rush, were praised for their big roster, as well as their unique takes on classic Mario characters, so it's likely that the studio has similar freedom to Next Level Games (who developed Luigi's Mansion and Mario Strikers).

Camelot has had some trouble adapting to the HD environment (evidenced by the lack of content in their recent games), but they will surely be more seasoned when the Switch successor launches, and maybe they can top their GCN/GBA output with the next installments of the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis series (sorry Golden Sun fans, your series will always be a low priority for Camelot/Nintendo).

I personally hope that on the next console we get the long-awaited revival of these characters. So... do you think these characters can make a comeback, or at least the anime style? Do you want them to come back? Who is your favorite Mario OC?
 
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I think the original characters thing still applies to the Mario "RPGs". New characters being introduced in the mainline 3D Mario games doesn't contradict that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only new characters in Mario + Rabbids Rabbids versions of existing characters?

As for the thread topic, no I wouldn't want them to return.
 
I wouldn't mind them returning (though I don't think they should outnumber the main Mario cast)...but as for their actual chances? Short answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. There is very much a mandate still at play here lol.
 
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Dark Cloud said:
Conspiracy theory? Tanabe talked on this wth
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All big brands have a marketing team that dictates how the brand should be managed. My point is that people grossly exaggerate how Nintendo restricts the freedom of their artists. A week ago some thought that getting an edgy, semi-violent Mario Strikers was completely impossible.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Conspiracy theory? Tanabe talked on this wth
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Yeah.....

We know that Nintendo wanted to reign in Mario particularly after Strikers, and Next Level Games canceled Mario Wrestling game as well.

It could very well be that they are easing a lot of those restrictions. However, it's really clear that they were in place before, especially through the Wii and Wii U Era of Nintendo.
 
Yzz said:
All big brands have a marketing team that dictates how the brand should be managed. My point is that people grossly exaggerate how Nintendo restricts the freedom of their artists.
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The fact that Camelot's OCs have long disappeared from their Mario spinoff games, which now focus purely on the mainline Mario cast, should say it all really.
 
Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star, it’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe. That means that if we aren’t using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don’t involve the Mario universe at all, like we’ve done with Olly and the stationery bosses.
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Nothing about this has been "debunked". The entire rumor is that Nintendo is preventing the modification of existing Mario characters, and that non-first party developers need to create entirely new characters instead.

The premise of your OP is just wrong tbh
 
Quoted by: Yzz
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It has an artistic edge, I suppose, but I don’t think Waluigi is doing crotch chops and I doubt Daisy (RIP?) is doing, well, Daisy stuff. The Mario Committee is real.
 
I don’t want them to make story modes anymore because it’s pretty evident from the Switch entries that they aren’t going to make anything resembling the handheld games anymore. Would rather they focused on more robust mini games, challenge modes and better online functionality.
 
Lozjam said:
Yeah.....

We know that Nintendo wanted to reign in Mario particularly after Strikers, and Next Level Games canceled Mario Wrestling game as well.

It could very well be that they are easing a lot of those restrictions. However, it's really clear that they were in place before, especially through the Wii and Wii U Era of Nintendo.
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What is the source of this? Super Mario Spikers animations looked more violent than even Smash and it could have given the game a T rating, which would have been obviously bad for business. You don't need a committee to determine that.
The only mention of a super restrictive committee are the Paper Mario developers, I don't think any other developer has talked about them before. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Mario Strikers (thankfully) retaining its unique aesthetic doesn't negate any of consistently proven mandates seen in every other spinoff for the last decade.

Battle League isn't creating any original characters or heavily modifying existing ones; Toads still look like vanilla toads, etc.
 
Brock Reiher said:
I think it gives more credence to the theory. They even took out the kremlings.
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To be far, it's been over 10 years since the Kremlings were in a game. Kremlings made sense in a time when the original DKC games were still very relevant (loads of DK spinoffs and the ports to GBA did pretty good) where as Boom Boom was still stuck in Super Mario Bros. 3 until 2011 and has been a regular presence in the Mario spinoffs over the past 10 years.
 
bellydrum said:
Nothing about this has been "debunked". The entire rumor is that Nintendo is preventing the modification of existing Mario characters, and that non-first party developers need to create entirely new characters instead.

The premise of your OP is just wrong tbh
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I'll admit I was wrong when addressing modifications of existing characters and thus the Mario committee exists in some form (like I said in my previous post all big brands have a marketing team), but I maintain that everything outside of said modifications is fair play, which is why almost all the claims about the committee are fanfiction. People have grossly exaggerated the reach and restrictions the Mario committee has, which is why it's mostly a conspiracy theory.
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
I don’t want them to make story modes anymore because it’s pretty evident from the Switch entries that they aren’t going to make anything resembling the handheld games anymore. Would rather they focused on more robust mini games, challenge modes and better online functionality.
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I would say that a story can exist but it would have to come way later in the form of dlc. You are right in saying they should focus on other stuff then story mode since it seems when they do it stretches them thin.
 
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Why do I have the feeling that the image in the OP will make a lot of folks actually MORE supportive of Nintendo's strictness regarding the Mario OCs thing?

Cause for me, I'd much rather have playable Chain-Chomp, Chargin' Chuck, or Goomba Tower than any of these people... no offense.
 
I don't think all of the Camelot characters have good designs, but some of them are quite good. I would have no problem with more human characters being present. I prefer unique characters over just playing as generic minions.
 
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I wouldn't say the new Strikers isn't affected by the mandates to the Mario brand. Compared to the first two, Battle League follows the standard brand more closely. Not only have the DK Kremlings been replaced by Boom Booms (as you already mentioned), the stadium designs follow traditional Mario themes. Mario's stadium half borrows from the same design well as Super Nintendo World, Bowser's half is a traditional lava castle, DK's half feels straight out of DKC Returns, and Luigi's(?) half looks just like one of Next Level Games' own Luigi's Mansion titles. That being said, Next Level Games has done a great job working with those elements - it's still more "on brand," but they kept the personality of the series. I don't think some of the more extreme elements, like the Waluigi crotch chop, will be there, but it's more than good enough.

Still, your main point concerns characters, not locales, which is a different point. I don't think that they'll be brought back, honestly. Mario has an extensive enough roster without them that the more recent Golf and Tennis games had "good" rosters without delving into the back catalogue, and there's still room for more Mario characters without touching any of the spinoff characters. I feel like the biggest "evidence" for them not coming back is Super Rush's Story Mode - the structure may have been more RPG like, similar to the GBC/A Golfs and Tennis's of old, but it focused on your Mii and mostly standard Mario NPCs rather than any other human characters. And while Mario super fans like myself might love the return of, say, Plum or Maple or Kid, I don't think they're beloved enough for people to really demand their return over "Ooh, they made Chargin' Chuck playable! Sweet!"

My favorite Mario OCs are Goombario and Goombella. Good, helpful Goombas that I always like keeping around in Paper Mario. Goombario is a Mario obsessed kiddo with an encyclopedic knowledge of the Mario world (which was just me as a kid, hah), and I found Goombella's mix of valley girl speech mannerisms, intelligence and sass to be a fun combo for a character.
 
I don’t think the human characters from the old Camelot games are really that necessary. I’d rather have more Mario universe characters like King Boo, King Bob-omb, Odyssey characters and stuff like that.
 
Ahmed said:
This thread sounds like it was made in bad faith.

But to answer the thread: no and no.
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Sorry if I offended someone, it's just tiring to hear the same stuff every time people talk about the return of a series, concept or character (They will sanitize, they are not going to allow it, etc.), and then said thing returns just as people wanted it. It happened with the portrait ghosts in LM, and now it has happened with Strikers.
BooDestroyer said:
Anyone remember when Peach had her own game?



Yeah, neither does Nintendo.
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That game was (reasonably) criticized for its sexism. Nintendo has to revamp the main mechanic to fix those complaints and they probably think it's not worth it.
 
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I don't like that in order to engage with this thread's question you have to accept its false premise
 
Quoted by: Yzz
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Yzz said:
Sorry for all that. I already changed the thread.
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In response to your new thread, I sure hope they do.

There was a weird JRPG charm with having original player characters interacting with the world of Mario. Using a Mii, and minimizing stats complexity, feels a little bit less like a JRPG.
 
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The style of the characters in the Nintendo 64 and Game Boy Color games are preferable over the style in the Game Boy Advance games, if we are referring to Camelot's human cast. The reason is basically this: the style of the older games are more cartoonish compared to the later ones. Take Gene Yuss for example:

500px-Geneyuss1.jpg
Gene_MGAT_artwork.jpg


The one on the left looks more like a Mario character, compared to the more generic design on the right. For Mario Golf in particular, I felt that only Tiny translated well because he doesn't look generic. In fact, the humans as posted in the original have unusual designs that don't quite fit the Mario characters, and it's worse because they are from a game that are overpopulated with them, only leaving six Mario characters.

Personally, I would like to see them, though they have to have a similar style as the Mario human characters. It would be nice to see more (named) human characters in particular, though I understand why Nintendo would prefer to shy away from widely doing this.

Thank you for reading.
 
MetalLord said:
maxresdefault.jpg


They let them put a fucking phoenix in the last game,they not forbidden to create or use new characters in mario games
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Looking at these new Mario Sports OCs from Camelot, and it's almost like Nintendo just wants any new characters added to feel "Mario-y" while at the same time not being slightly-altered already existing Mario characters.

winstein said:
The style of the characters in the Nintendo 64 and Game Boy Color games are preferable over the style in the Game Boy Advance games, if we are referring to Camelot's human cast. The reason is basically this: the style of the older games are more cartoonish compared to the later ones. Take Gene Yuss for example:

500px-Geneyuss1.jpg
Gene_MGAT_artwork.jpg


The one on the left looks more like a Mario character, compared to the more generic design on the right. For Mario Golf in particular, I felt that only Tiny translated well because he doesn't look generic. In fact, the humans as posted in the original have unusual designs that don't quite fit the Mario characters, and it's worse because they are from a game that are overpopulated with them, only leaving six Mario characters.

Personally, I would like to see them, though they have to have a similar style as the Mario human characters. It would be nice to see more (named) human characters in particular, though I understand why Nintendo would prefer to shy away from widely doing this.

Thank you for reading.
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This is a much better example. The one on the Left looks like a Mario character from the Arcade days, like Pauline, Stanley, or Foreman Spike. I wouldn't mind them showing up at all really. Even has a funny name. Gene Yuss lol

The one on the right tho doesn't look like they're from "Mario" at all.
 
Yes, let's get Isaac, Garet, Mia, Ivan, Jenna, Felix, Piers, Sheba and Alex, Camelot's anime OCs that matter.
 
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Also, is this another one of those threads?
Because what if Super Mario Galaxy 3 but


And Odyssey 2:


But after those games, they’ll just continue to exist as spinoff roster padding-outing.
 
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Plum rules and should come back. By far the best original character Camelot's made!
 
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Don't particularly care about most of Camelot's OCs, but Plum is cool! Let her exist. Or maybe they'd want to bring Kid along too; he appears as a spirit in Smash Ultimate! Preferably he'd have his darker skin tone from Mario Golf 64 though.

MarioGolf64KidBogey.png


Lozjam said:
We know that Nintendo wanted to reign in Mario particularly after Strikers
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I don't really believe Strikers was the main cause. They greenlit a sequel for the Wii in the first place and were pushing to have it be one of the first impressions of Mario on the system (would've been the first had it not been internally delayed and/or had Super Paper Mario not been moved from GC to Wii). They also just revealed a third installment which retains a surprising amount of the series' unique identity; that too!

I think Super Paper Mario was most certainly the straw that broke the camel's back for both that series and the Mario IP as a whole.
 
I'm not trying to create trouble here or anything, but there was some dissection of this that seemed potentially merited at the time, which could also explain the weirdness of the thread for anyone tuning in late.

Not to get too into the existence or non-existence of such a committee, but I think part of why the thread started off the way it did was that it didn't particularly lay a base for its premise, nor build much of an argument to support it, instead pointing to a reveal that other people are looking at and seeing what they view as results of such a committee and running with the idea that it has automatically disproved the concept. In the end, the example being pointed to doesn't even touch on the concept of Camelot's OCs, which is the thread's concern.

This probably contributes to why people might have the initial impression that
Ahmed said:
this thread sounds like it was made in bad faith.
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Judging from the original post, I must have missed a good chunk of discourse on the subject, and so there's a lot I can't speak to.

Even so, people do see clear (what they consider to be) overreach regarding management, control, and homogenization of the brand, from changes in character for the Mario & Luigi remakes to altering distinct Toads and putting them in generic format for Mario Party Superstars, in addition to the drastic shift in philosophy for series such as Paper Mario.

And that Strikers has managed to retain some visual flair -- and possibly cut much else -- doesn't really touch on a lot of what's in contention (though it does provide hope that different branches of the franchise will be able to do similar).

Yzz said:
The only mention of a super restrictive committee are the Paper Mario developers, I don't think any other developer has talked about them before. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Unless you're thinking of something else, I believe the statement in question comes from Kensuke Tanabe, a Nintendo producer who also works with the likes of Next Level Games.

Now, I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that NLG seems to be doing a better job of working around yet within the boundaries they are given than some others (Luigi hovering with the Poltergust because he's not allowed to jump, making the necessary alterations to Strikers but keeping what elements of its character they can, etc), which might be an important skill for the situation.

It might be interesting to see what answer would be given were the developers at NLG asked about restrictions placed upon them for working in the Mario franchise.

I guess a part of the issue with the discourse is that the existence of a group dictating different things about brand management and presentation isn't in question, but there isn't really an explanation of where things shift from acceptance of this to "conspiracy theory," nor an examination of any evidence for either side or even particular analysis of the claims said to be debunked and how Strikers might affect them:
Yzz said:
All big brands have a marketing team that dictates how the brand should be managed. My point is that people grossly exaggerate how Nintendo restricts the freedom of their artists. A week ago some thought that getting an edgy, semi-violent Mario Strikers was completely impossible.
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The OCs of Camelot​

There are certainly reasons to desire the glorious return of the OCs of Camelot. They bring with them a certain amount of nostalgia and different faces for the roster. There is, however, an issue.

Many of these don't look like they fit the Mario universe. They look like characters designed outside the franchise and plopped into it, which, honestly, seems like a reason brand management might shy away from allowing them. And if you start throwing in too many of these, you end up with less of a Mario Golf and more of a Camelot Golf, featuring Mario from the Super Mario series.

And that's not to say some might not be workable -- Plum and Kid are referenced --, but it does make their inclusion less likely. Even so, it's probably best not to go overboard.

I will say that some newer creations do seem to fit in somewhat better:
MetalLord said:
maxresdefault.jpg


They let them put a fucking phoenix in the last game,they not forbidden to create or use new characters in mario games
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It's not necessarily impossible for Camelot to include their own creations, but those should be designed and incorporated with care -- and there's always the possibility such creations are rejected regardless.

Anyhow, I suppose there's always the reminder that is Waluigi.


That Which Remains​

Now, it's tangential here, but I'm going to add in a similar stance to that I take with the concept of Nintendo Kart, and that is to suggest that the Mario universe does have currently-existing characters which could be pulled in, which could expand the roster yet maintain that Mario identity.

One such possibility -- and, not knowing details of what brand management would think, I can't guarantee he would actually be allowed -- is Don Pianta.

Don-Pianta-481x360.png

The Don of Untimely Death was the head of the Pianta Syndicate. During the events of The Thousand Year Door, he left the Syndicate in the hands of his beloved daughter and his son-in-law as he retired. Nevertheless, he could simoultaneously maintain connection with contacts and relax in his retirement on the golf course. This seems like exactly the sort of individual you might find on a golf course, and he could play a role in a theoretical story mode as well as fit in with and bring along potential courses.

That's just one example, of course, but it seems fitting.

Other Considerations​

Dardan Sandiego said:
I don’t want them to make story modes anymore because it’s pretty evident from the Switch entries that they aren’t going to make anything resembling the handheld games anymore. Would rather they focused on more robust mini games, challenge modes and better online functionality.
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I would personally love the inclusion of some sort of story mode, carefully crafted with the game's mechanics at its core, but I would definitely agree other sorts of modes would do more for longevity and should be prioritized.

Given what seems to be the current state of the team as they work on these projects, of course, I'm not sure how development of those different elements might be worked. It's possible a story mode would have to be dropped to properly realize everything else; it's simply not ideal.

Circling back to the beginning:
MondoMega said:
I don't really believe Strikers was the main cause. They greenlit a sequel for the Wii in the first place and were pushing to have it be one of the first impressions of Mario on the system (would've been the first had it not been internally delayed and/or had Super Paper Mario not been moved from GC to Wii). They also just revealed a third installment which retains a surprising amount of the series' unique identity; that too!

I think Super Paper Mario was most certainly the straw that broke the camel's back for both that series and the Mario IP as a whole.
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The general sentiment seems to be that it was a combination of Super Paper Mario and the increased edge of Strikers Charged (much of which remains unseen in Battle League), though clearly no statement was ever issued to confirm such.
 
MondoMega said:
MarioGolf64KidBogey.png



I don't really believe Strikers was the main cause. They greenlit a sequel for the Wii in the first place and were pushing to have it be one of the first impressions of Mario on the system (would've been the first had it not been internally delayed and/or had Super Paper Mario not been moved from GC to Wii). They also just revealed a third installment which retains a surprising amount of the series' unique identity; that too!

I think Super Paper Mario was most certainly the straw that broke the camel's back for both that series and the Mario IP as a whole.
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Strikers was definitely part of it. Not so much the violence or art style, but stuff like Waluigi’s and Daisy’s taunts. Strikers definitely pushed how existing characters were presented in a way Super Paper Mario didn’t.
 
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the most fun I've had in these spinoffs was playing the RPG modes in Mario Tennis GBC and GBA, so I like 'em

besides, what Camelot wants to do most is anime-ass fantasy JRPGs so if they can't do that they should have at least this much as a creative outlet
 
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BooDestroyer said:
Also, is this another one of those threads?
Because what if Super Mario Galaxy 3 but


And Odyssey 2:


But after those games, they’ll just continue to exist as spinoff roster padding-outing.
Click to expand...


Dinoman96 said:
Dunno about the prince dude, but I imagine a lot of people would be happy to see a notable PoC Mario character.
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E.Gadd said:
Mario does need some Black characters, that's for sure.
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Now we're talking.

...but yeah, the core Mario series is the best place to introduce such a character. Put them front and center and make them a big deal. Then they go to the spinoffs.
 
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