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Reviews Digital Foundry || Xenoblade Chronicles 3 - Nintendo Switch - Digital Foundry Tech Review

CM132 said:
"Monolith has both improved the overall visual quality while greatly boosting image quality, achieving this via what looks like a temporal super-resolution solution, taking those lower pixel counts up to a passable rendition of 1080p when docked and 720p in portable play."
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But don't you know that only numbers matter?
 
bloopland33 said:
Can someone explain something to me about temporal upsampling solutions - why don't more devs use them on Switch? My first guess would be performance cost you then need to optimize around...if not that, why wouldn't they have used this in XCDE? Second guess: they're not easy to develop and they just came up with it.
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it can pretty bandwidth heavy. there's a practical point where upsampling can even regress your performance! switch doesn't seem to hit that point, but other games are probably not allowing enough headroom to upsampling. spatial upscaling like XC2 is much cheaper to do

Chris Walken said:
I mean, ok you're being too harsh but i understand your point...a little.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Xeno X was 720p on WiiU, less bullshit happening on screen but better IQ.

Xeno X is incredible, beatiful landscapes to explore, less grass density, volumetric Fog and Lightning but much better IQ than Xeno 1 DE or Xeno 2 imho.

Why Monolith didn't followed Xeno X path is a mistery for me.

I mean X is stunning, even more if you explore the map with your mecha, something that i can't understand why Monolith never used again on their later games because it's a QoL improvement in terms of exploration.
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XCX lacks a lot of the advancements that XC2 introduced like physically based rendering and the like. XC3 is another evolution of the engine
 
Warlord said:
So I'm on complete media blackout and refusing to watch anything Xenoblade related. What's the base resolution in docked?
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It's tough to say; it hovers around 540p, but importantly Monolithsoft is apparently using a really good temporal upscaling feature that brings perceptible image resolution close to 1080p during static or low movement shots
 
MSnap said:
A lot of Xenoblade graphics discourse comes from people misremembering how the series performed on the older consoles
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I remember exactly how the games looked

Xenoblade 2 running natively on switch

23880-xenogears-playstation-screenshot-wandering-around-in-the-village.jpg
 
Chris Walken said:
I mean, ok you're being too harsh but i understand your point...a little.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Xeno X was 720p on WiiU, less bullshit happening on screen but better IQ.

Xeno X is incredible, beatiful landscapes to explore, less grass density, volumetric Fog and Lightning but much better IQ than Xeno 1 DE or Xeno 2 imho.

Why Monolith didn't followed Xeno X path is a mistery for me.

I mean X is stunning, even more if you explore the map with your mecha, something that i can't understand why Monolith never used again on their later games because it's a QoL improvement in terms of exploration.
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You need to watch Digital Foundry about Xenoblade 3 being the best out of those in terms of technical aspects.
 
Monolith Soft providing a fine example of how graphics can improve on a fixed platform through better utilization of and familiarity with the hardware.
This is a substantial step up over Xenoblade 2.

While I see no need for doom and gloom over it, I can see why some might be displeased with the direction Monolith have taken with their engine on Switch, favouring more advanced rendering features like temporal anti-aliasing, screen space reflections, and per object motion blur over a higher resolution.

That said, given the nature and age of the system it's running on, these are impressive results. Hats off to Monolith for not resting on their laurels and for continuing to push for ambitious experiences even on low end hardware.

And jeepers creepers that music slaps like a backhand from the statue of liberty.

Friday cannot come soon enough.
 
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bloopland33 said:
Can someone explain something to me about temporal upsampling solutions - why don't more devs use them on Switch? My first guess would be performance cost you then need to optimize around...if not that, why wouldn't they have used this in XCDE? Second guess: they're not easy to develop and they just came up with it.
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Switch has an issue with respect to Memory Bandiwdth, it only has a throughput peak of 25.6GB/s when docked and 21GB/s in portable mode.

TAAU, or Temporal Anti Aliasing Upsampling as the name implies, temporal, it relies on previous frames to generate an image and then reconstruct it to a higher looking image. It accumulates data, and this data is very bandwidth heavy for a device like the switch. A few games on the switch do use a TAAU like Dying Light to make a more pleasing image.

It needs data to work with though, and if the game is a lower resolution it becomes harder to make a nicer image, due in part because there’s only so much it can try to reconstruct. It’s why devs opt to not really use it on the switch and it’s more rare on the platform.


The switch would have to multitask a lot with limited amount of hands.
 
shoptroll said:
It would be awesome if they could back-port some of the technical improvements to XCDE and especially XC2 with a patch but that's highly unlikely to happen.
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Gah, as someone yet to play it I’d love if they went back and fixed XB2 with these learnings
 
Tbf if you just read the bullets it may not be too obvious that this is a positive video

They're apparently using an upscaling technique, and only in certain conditions the original resolution is apparent. Overall DF approved this approach and they started speculating if BotW 2 may be using it
 
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Tentacle-tropes said:
What should their priorities be then with their Switch (technically WiiU) engine?
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Achieving a good resolution before chucking in special effects that tank performance.

Set your target at 900p-1080p and don’t use special effects that cause performance to drop below 30FPS at that resolution.

In this case, it’s almost like Monolith Soft targeted different hardware and then ported the game down to Switch.
 
Dcubed said:
Achieving a good resolution before chucking in special effects that tank performance.

Set your target at 900p-1080p and don’t use special effects that cause performance to drop below 30FPS at that resolution.

In this case, it’s almost like Monolith Soft targeted different hardware and then ported the game down to Switch.
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Plot twist: The target was the Switch Plus/Advance/Next/Whatever
 
Dcubed said:
Achieving a good resolution before chucking in special effects that tank performance.

Set your target at 900p-1080p and don’t use special effects that cause performance to drop below 30FPS at that resolution.

In this case, it’s almost like Monolith Soft targeted different hardware and then ported the game down to Switch.
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This equation seems nice but I feel as if there would major compromises somewhere in here that would make this not entirely feasible.
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
Switch has an issue with respect to Memory Bandiwdth, it only has a throughput peak of 25.6GB/s when docked and 21GB/s in portable mode.

TAAU, or Temporal Anti Aliasing Upsampling as the name implies, temporal, it relies on previous frames to generate an image and then reconstruct it to a higher looking image. It accumulates data, and this data is very bandwidth heavy for a device like the switch. A few games on the switch do use a TAAU like Dying Light to make a more pleasing image.

It needs data to work with though, and if the game is a lower resolution it becomes harder to make a nicer image, due in part because there’s only so much it can try to reconstruct. It’s why devs opt to not really use it on the switch and it’s more rare on the platform.


The switch would have to multitask a lot with limited amount of hands.
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I feel like xb3 is kinda using a lot of bandwidth chewing alpha already, to also have taau. I mean they obviously do, and apparently it's the bees freaking knees, but still.
 
undefined said:
Tbf if you just read the bullets it may not be too obvious that this is a positive video

They're apparently using an upscaling technique, and only in certain conditions the original resolution is apparent. Overall DF approved this approach and they started speculating if BotW 2 may be using it
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I mean, why would you actually watch a review or look at a video game when you can just react to the bad numbers in the bullet points?

(though to be fair the video does feature a pretty significant early game visual spoiler)
 
Dcubed said:
Achieving a good resolution before chucking in special effects that tank performance.

Set your target at 900p-1080p and don’t use special effects that cause performance to drop below 30FPS at that resolution.

In this case, it’s almost like Monolith Soft targeted different hardware and then ported the game down to Switch.
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I thought you were joking initially, but it looks like you just didn't watch the video? It literally says "...a passable rendition of 1080p when docked and 720p in handheld." Your target is what they achieved.
 
I did try a good ten hours of XBC2, but some areas are such a blurry mess that It is off putting. I just dropped the games in hope that the successor will improve it via BC.

Now looking at XBC3 digital foundry's I can't wait to play it. It seems that it performs way better.
 
AR15mex said:
I did try a good ten hours of XBC2, but some areas are such a blurry mess that It is off putting. I just dropped the games in hope that the successor will improve it via BC.

Now looking at XBC3 digital foundry's I can't wait to play it. It seems that it performs way better.
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Xenoblade 2 looks NICE on Yuzu, it doesn't even have to be 4k, just patching out the weird filters and running it at 1080p is so nice.

Really makes me excited for xb3, and it's comparable to 1080p taau iq.
 
Crusters said:
Xenoblade 2 looks NICE on Yuzu, it doesn't even have to be 4k, just patching out the weird filters and running it at 1080p is so nice.

Really makes me excited for xb3, and it's comparable to 1080p taau iq.
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I'd also add that the worst resolution drops by far occur when playing in handheld. If you stick to docked, it's not that bad.
 
Aggrocrog said:
I thought you were joking initially, but it looks like you just didn't watch the video? It literally says "...a passable rendition of 1080p when docked and 720p in handheld." Your target is what they achieved.
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Yeah it'd be like complaining about the rendering resolution of games that use DLSS/FSR. If I'm running God of War internally at 540p and using one of those techniques to get a 1080p image, I'm not going to complain about numbers, I'll evaluate the final output for myself. I'm very interested in seeing Xenoblade 3's upsampling in person.
 
finally got around to watching the video. seems like monolith soft has improved their engine in a lot of ways, which is great. hopefully this also means good things for botw 2, as they point out. their first reaction to the botw 2 trailer was them doubting if it's possible on the switch hardware but seems like the upscaling tech used here could be used in botw 2 as well.
 
daase ko said:
I hope nintendo is aiming for 1440p with drake , with a 4k tv I don't even find 1080p good anymore.
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the best part is that they aren't far off from 720p already since they're anywhere from 540p to 720p. question is what kind of effects would Monolith go for, because they seem to push for whatever they can get
 
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Dcubed said:
540p in Docked mode!? Absolutely pathetic!

Terrible, terrible results here. It is barely even higher resolution than the original Wii game (and actually lower than the Wii game in handheld mode!).

Once again, Monolith Soft have their priorities all wrong with their Switch engine. Disgraceful showing here.
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If you're not familiar with the term "temporal super-resolution", it's the basis of how techniques like DLSS, FSR 2.0, and XeSS work. Unlike DLSS and XeSS, it's not running on dedicated hardware and therefore may not be as performant as those solutions; however, that doesn't mean the end result can't look great if it's still hitting its framerate target.

The fact that Monolith Soft has some sort of solution of their own (potentially with NERD's assistance? It'd be a bit redundant for two of Nintendo's subsidiaries to make the same tech) that works at resolutions this low is pretty superb. DF praising it on top of that is another good sign that it actually holds up pretty well.

John Lineman (the author of this Digital Foundry review) had this to say about Xenoblade 2 back in 2017:
John Lineman said:
There's no doubt about it: Xenoblade 2 has the worst image quality we've yet seen in a Switch title running in handheld mode.
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but said this about Xenoblade 3:
John Lineman said:
the implementation is particularly impressive in portable mode, delivering one of the sharpest images from all the high-end titles we've seen on Switch - a far cry from the exceedingly blurry Xenoblade 2.
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Internal rendering resolution is not the end-all of image sharpness anymore.

Oregano said:
Xenoblade X actually has a dynamic resolution as well and never actually reaches a full 720p.
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MSnap said:
A lot of Xenoblade graphics discourse comes from people misremembering how the series performed on the older consoles
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I imagine this is a result of DF's article on it, which states that it runs at 720p and never even mentions a dynamic resolution.
 
Raw native pixel counts are becoming increasingly less crucial in this age of temporal upsampling, FSR, DLSS, etc.
The fact Monolith have a game running around 540p/360p but achieving a final image that can pass for 1080p/720p on a 5 year old mobile device is a pretty good demonstration of that.

Hopefully we see techniques like this used more often in Switch games going forwards; the results in games like this, Dying Light, Life is Strange True Colours, etc are quite impressive.

Oregano said:
Xenoblade X actually has a dynamic resolution as well and never actually reaches a full 720p.
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I'd like more information on this if you have it; google wasn't much help, the only source I could find was DF stating that the game is a straight 720p. Thanks in advance. :)
 
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curl-6 said:
Raw native pixel counts are becoming increasingly less crucial in this age of temporal upsampling, FSR, DLSS, etc.
The fact Monolith have a game running around 540p/360p but achieving a final image that can pass for 1080p/720p on a 5 year old mobile device is a pretty good demonstration of that.

Hopefully we see techniques like this used more often in Switch games going forwards; the results in games like this, Dying Light, Life is Strange True Colours, etc are quite impressive.
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I think as Richard Leadbetter from Digital Foundry puts it, "We're increasingly living in a 'post-resolution' era where pixel counts are becoming less and less relevant." I guess it's all about image quality now.
 
mazi said:
finally got around to watching the video. seems like monolith soft has improved their engine in a lot of ways, which is great. hopefully this also means good things for botw 2, as they point out. their first reaction to the botw 2 trailer was them doubting if it's possible on the switch hardware but seems like the upscaling tech used here could be used in botw 2 as well.
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While obviously Monolith Soft helps with BotW 2, the technique showing up there would lend more credence to the idea that this all stems from the method NERD patented imo. Which I already think is likely; it wouldn't surprise me if it's already just a regular feature in Nintendo's internal middleware tools.
 
Crusters said:
I feel like xb3 is kinda using a lot of bandwidth chewing alpha already, to also have taau. I mean they obviously do, and apparently it's the bees freaking knees, but still.
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It’s because the Switch Pro is actually the Xenoblade 3 cart. It has DLSS processing cores in it ! The digital version is 360p when docked.
 
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daase ko said:
I hope nintendo is aiming for 1440p with drake , with a 4k tv I don't even find 1080p good anymore.
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I run a service that can help with that, it costs 500 bucks and involves a squeaky chair, duct tape, eye openers, and running a PS5 through a Tandy Graphics Adapter.
 
curl-6 said:
Raw native pixel counts are becoming increasingly less crucial in this age of temporal upsampling, FSR, DLSS, etc.
The fact Monolith have a game running around 540p/360p but achieving a final image that can pass for 1080p/720p on a 5 year old mobile device is a pretty good demonstration of that.

Hopefully we see techniques like this used more often in Switch games going forwards; the results in games like this, Dying Light, Life is Strange True Colours, etc are quite impressive.


I'd like more information on this if you have it; google wasn't much help, the only source I could find was DF stating that the game is a straight 720p. Thanks in advance. :)
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I'm struggling to find it now, because I'm just seeing stuff for 2, DE and 3... but the same code for resolution scaling found in Xenoblade 2 and DE is also in Xenoblade X's code.
 
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Wouldn't it be neat of that upscaler would actually be part of an SDK update and XC3 is just the first game to use it? BotW2 likely uses it too and i suspect Bayonetta 3 uses temporal upscaling aswell.
 
slsk said:
It's sounding like it would be better to play this with the mClassic off?
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Hmm that's a good point actually. Gonna be weird turning it off for me but their solution sounds better than what the mClassic will do for the image quality.
 
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RainTech said:
Wouldn't it be neat of that upscaler would actually be part of an SDK update and XC3 is just the first game to use it?
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I suggested this earlier based on NERD's patent. I had to revisit the patent to make sure it was a temporal upscalar though, and while most of the patent doesn't mention it, there is one paragraph stating motion vectors can be used to improve the resulting image, implying a temporal aspect.

That said, there's no actual evidence that this is NERD's solution, and we'll only really be able to ascertain that by the games it's showing up in. If it's just Xenoblade (and maybe Zelda, though I get the feeling Monolith's assistance isn't as much on the engine side there), then it'll pretty clearly be Monolith Soft's. But if it shows up in a bunch of 2023 games and has pretty similar artifacting to Xenoblade 3, then it's probably NERD's solution that's been baked into Nintendo's tooling.

I personally wouldn't expect a solution created by Monolith Soft Tokyo to show up in many other Nintendo games, but maybe I'm off base there.
 
It's more than likely just MonolithSoft's own solution. TAAU isn't something a company would need outside help on since there's a load of info out there.
 
ILikeFeet said:
It's more than likely just MonolithSoft's own solution. TAAU isn't something a company would need outside help on since there's a load of info out there.
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Right - but why would NERD make a solution that can be integrated into game engines if not for this exact scenario? Why did Monolith Soft's TAA not include upscaling until after NERD's patent was published?

Both conclusions are logical. I don't think there's enough to assume one way or the other for the time being.
 
Jersh said:
Right - but why would NERD make a solution that can be integrated into game engines if not for this exact scenario? Why did Monolith Soft's TAA not include upscaling until after NERD's patent was published?

Both conclusions are logical. I don't think there's enough to assume one way or the other for the time being.
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I think this is just overthinking the patent. NERD made their own algorithm, they used it for Mario Sunshine, they then patented it with the door left open for potential game use.

MS just didn't have upscaling because it wasn't ready yet
 
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