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Reviews Digital Foundry || Pokemon Legends Arceus on Switch - Are the Tech Criticisms Justified?

I

ILikeFeet

Warpstar Knight

A revolution for the series, Arceus is built on fully explorable 3D environments in which to capture and battle Pokemon. It's unlike anything developer Game Freak has produced, though as a Switch title, many have criticised the technical bar of quality here - especially compared to other games on Nintendo's platform. Are the complaints fair? Tom finds out.
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no summary from me as I'll be in class
 
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Excited to watch this, need to get through standup and morning meetings first lol
 
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mazi said:
"xenoblade chronicles 2, released in 2017, 2 years after breath of the wild"

que?
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Just before that he says "there are a lot of great looking open world games on Switch, especially recently! Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is one..."
 
Here's my double hot take:

1) Pop-in does not bother me at all because I'm almost never actually looking in the background while I'm moving around

2) Outside of the distance issues this game is prettier (to me) than BOTW. Like, substantially so.
 
Short short version: It's a big step over previous Pokémon games, but still can't technically match up with similarly open Switch games from 2017, let alone 2021.
 
I think the fair is pretty fair, but probably a bit too forgiving for Monster Hunter and especially Xenoblade 2 performance wise in comparison to Arceus.
 
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bodokoh said:
Xenoblade 2 and BOTW are two generations ahead in term of graphics.
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This is funny because BOTW is a Wii U game and it still looks a million miles ahead of Arceus. I can't even begin to imagine how much better BOTW 2 will look when it is pushing the Switch to the limits.
 
I played the game for the first time yesterday and it looks really crisp. I'm very pleased by the graphics.
 
bodokoh said:
Xenoblade 2 and BOTW are two generations ahead in term of graphics.
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BotW has so much more going on under the hood, while still looking way more attractive. To think that we are talking about a Wii U game underlines one of the many achievements of this title.
 
i don't think the game looks horrible or anything, but i just wish we had gotten a game where it looks like they've taken full advantage of the hardware. they have all the money in the world, they should be able to do it.
 
mazi said:
i don't think the game looks horrible or anything, but i just wish we had gotten a game where it looks like they've taken full advantage of the hardware. they have all the money in the world, they should be able to do it.
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Money isn't an issue, time is. This game was done in like a little over 2 years, right? During a pandemic for the majority of the time too.
 
Brock Reiher said:
Arceus is arguably the best looking game in Switch from an artistry perspective
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you mean among the pokemon games?

Skittzo said:
Money isn't an issue, time is. This game was done in like a little over 2 years, right? During a pandemic for the majority of the time too.
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i guess you're right. it's a shame then they can't have the time needed to make a prettier game.
 
Valid complaints aside I really dislike the "they make a lot of money, we demand prettier games" attitude shared at the beggining of the video.
 
mazi said:
you mean among the pokemon games?
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Honestly I find the art style and clean IQ to be far better than any of the other open world games on Switch like BOTW or Xenoblade 2.

The problem is only stuff in the distance, that's where the image completely falls apart. But for up close scenery and characters it looks lovely. Texture resolutions could be a bit better.
 
Skittzo said:
Money isn't an issue, time is. This game was done in like a little over 2 years, right? During a pandemic for the majority of the time too.
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Time, and possibly still relative inexperience with 3D games (especially in HD).

I think some of the criticisms (eg: "One of the ugliest games I have ever seen") are very overblown, but this is a good, balanced discussion of how they could improve.
 
I’m yet to watch the video. We all know it looks like shit so I don’t think I need DF to extrapolate that for me. I’m finding handheld to be the least jarring way to play and I hope the next one has more development time.
 
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Video was hit & miss for me. The analysis of Legends itself seems pretty spot on, but the comparisons to "what else is possible" on the Switch was a little strange. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 being held up as an exemplar of what's possible on Switch is really weird, and I found it fascinating that they called out the framerate in XC2 as the main sticking point, when for me, the resolution is far more disctracting and, in some areas, downright unforgiveable. I was also shocked that they didn't give any tip of the cap to Immortals Fenyx Rising, but whatever.
 
mazi said:
you mean among the pokemon games?


i guess you're right. it's a shame then they can't have the time needed to make a prettier game.
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I don't know how true this is, but I've seen multiple people say that TPC doesn't set the aggressive schedule for these games, implying that the pressure to release so frequently is down to Game Freak's own decision-making. If that's true, then why they don't give themselves more time is beyond me.
 
Tranquilo said:
Video was hit & miss for me. The analysis of Legends itself seems pretty spot on, but the comparisons to "what else is possible" on the Switch was a little strange. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 being held up as an exemplar of what's possible on Switch is really weird, and I found it fascinating that they called out the framerate in XC2 as the main sticking point, when for me, the resolution is far more disctracting and, in some areas, downright unforgiveable. I was also shocked that they didn't give any tip of the cap to Immortals Fenyx Rising, but whatever.
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Didn't XC2 hit like 240p/360p 378p in handheld in a lot of areas? Arceus looks light-years ahead of that low res sharpened mess. And I love XC2 and played it 95% handheld.

edit: it hits 378p worst case scenario, I stand corrected.
 
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MatrixMan.exe said:
I don't know how true this is, but I've seen multiple people say that TPC doesn't set the aggressive schedule for these games, implying that the pressure to release so frequently is down to Game Freak's own decision-making. If that's true, then why they don't give themselves more time is beyond me.
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I doubt TPC wholly sets the release schedule but it's absolutely not just up to Game Freak. All three parties (Nintendo, TPC and GF) likely have input on it. TPC needs to get the merch and media ready for GF's releases, so there is definitely some coordination required there, especially for mainline games that tend to follow the animes.
 
This game was pixelated as hell, suffered from pop-in galore, models in the distance moved at single digit FPS and shadows in the background were severely compromised. I struggle to see a universe where this game is one of the top lookers on Switch
 
I honestly think the game looks great. I also play all my Switch games in handheld and never really have issues with any game’s graphics, so maybe I’m the wrong person to evaluate this. Mostly I’m just tired of the discourse around Switch games being unacceptably ugly and unplayable. It just seems so played out after all these years, and I don’t know why people who are very concerned about graphical fidelity buy Switch games just to be upset about the graphics.

I also think a lot of the talk about how GameFreak makes so much money and should be able to make the game look better misses the point. A lot of this is intentional, or at least intentionally deprioritized. The game looks cartoony and simple because the primary audience is children. Not because GameFreak is incompetent or the Switch is underpowered. Outside of enthusiast Internet forums, there is really not a big audience of people who have issue with the graphical fidelity of Pokémon games. I would not be surprised if Pokémon games are intentionally kept simple looking - and the focus is on iconic designs rather than breathtaking open worlds - because it helps the brand stay positioned as being for children.
 
Skittzo said:
I doubt TPC wholly sets the release schedule but it's absolutely not just up to Game Freak. All three parties (Nintendo, TPC and GF) likely have input on it. TPC needs to get the merch and media ready for GF's releases, so there is definitely some coordination required there, especially for mainline games that tend to follow the animes.
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Right, and this is why I don't believe the idea that TPC aren't having a big say in the current schedule for these games. Clearly, it's not them alone, but I also sincerely doubt that Game Freak can just turn around to TPC and Nintendo and say "actually, we want to spend 4-5 years focusing on developing one Pokemon game".
 
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The pop in didn't bother me too much until
you get the ability to fly around, it becomes extremely obvious then especially with tall grass just appearing out of thin air right in front of you.
 
Arceus is still a kinda ugly game but considering the evolution of the formula they actually implemented here, I'm willing to give it a pass this time.

(Especially considering that Sword&Shield looked blatantly like sh*t and its content was even worse).
 
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Lord Azrael said:
. I struggle to see a universe where this game is one of the top lookers on Switch
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I agree, it's not
but at the same time, it obvious how Pokémon games generate very polarized reactions, imho
It still looks/runs pretty decently imho, at least in portable mode, and it's way bigger/nicer than prvious iterations of the franchise imho
it also looks better than Xeno2 in terms of portable resolution, and runs better than BotW in terms of stability imho
of course, those two games are WAY bigger/open or have TONS of more contents/mechanics
it's just that I was expecting my eyes to spill blood, from initial reactions, while...I'm enjoying its artstylte and its graphics in portable mode (I admit I have to play on TV screen yet!)
 
Skittzo said:
Here's my double hot take:

1) Pop-in does not bother me at all because I'm almost never actually looking in the background while I'm moving around

2) Outside of the distance issues this game is prettier (to me) than BOTW. Like, substantially so.
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i would call BotW one of the top lookers on Switch, and LA one of the bottom, so that certainly is a hot take and a half. their aesthetics and shading are similar, but BotW is consistently doing dramatically better with its textures, environments, grass, water, everything really. models when they aren't animating are probably the things that look closest between them.
 
minimalism said:
Didn't XC2 hit like 240p/360p in handheld in a lot of areas? Arceus looks light-years ahead of that low res sharpened mess. And I love XC2 and played it 95% handheld.
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No, it gets grossly exaggerated. Xenoblade 2 hovers in the mid 400s in most areas but it's absolute nadir is 378p in very specific instances.
 
Skittzo said:
Honestly I find the art style and clean IQ to be far better than any of the other open world games on Switch like BOTW or Xenoblade 2.
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"Clean IQ" seems a hell of a euphemism for "not a drop of anti-aliasing".
 
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enempi said:
The game looks cartoony and simple because the primary audience is children. Not because GameFreak is incompetent or the Switch is underpowered. Outside of enthusiast Internet forums, there is really not a big audience of people who have issue with the graphical fidelity of Pokémon games. I would not be surprised if Pokémon games are intentionally kept simple looking - and the focus is on iconic designs rather than breathtaking open worlds - because it helps the brand stay positioned as being for children.
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It's totally fine to say that you can live with the shortcomings of the Pokémon games without going with the old tired "It's just for kids" defense. Animated features from Disney targets children for many centuries too, while looking beautiful and still setting standards.
Hell, to stay in the same medium, look no further than Nintendo.
I don't believe in the "GameFreak is just incompetent" claims, far from it. They just need more time, way more time. It must be excruciating to work like some kind of battery caged hen, game after game, never getting the chance to perfecting your work.
 
Oliver-1984 said:
There are more than 4000 titles on Switch... So that's quite an insult for all the masterful crafted games available on that platform.
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How is it insulting? There's only one #1. If I made a game that was arguably as good looking as arceus I would be honored.
 
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So it does prove to me 2 things I have assumed since the first trailer:
1. They will always prioritize the handheld mode over the docked mode.
2. Some of the problems with the visual can be fixed if they actually go all-in with painting art style or just go cel-shade like BOTW. Don't go half-ass painting half-ass "realistic" like this.

And this is from the guy who has almost no problem with the visual cause I know what GF can actually do, they still haven't get used to optimizing the "open world" type of gameplay.
 
StephenNParker said:
1. They will always prioritize the handheld mode over the docked mode.
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I don't believe this. there's no difference between handheld mode and docked mode. the better performance is simply because of the lower resolution alpha effects not overloading the gpu. the game isn't that gpu limited as evident by the resolution choices
 
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Oregano said:
No, it gets grossly exaggerated. Xenoblade 2 hovers in the mid 400s in most areas but it's absolute nadir is 378p in very specific instances.
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I couldn't remember exactly (and was too lazy to check, sorry) but thank you for the correction! The resolution was the only part of the game that bothered me (and, like you said, only sometimes). Obviously I wouldn't be Nia if I didn't love it.
 
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I just finished the main story after 38h of playing. I think that the game looks mostly ok. Art style is nice.
90% of the time the game looks good, but sometimes is just awful. There are areas without vegetation, trees, nothing but ugly textures stretched across few polygons. Maybe if the game got more time in the oven, it would look better in these places. It is not a hardware thing, I'm sure.
 
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The pop-in of trees is annoying but the straight up geometry changes as I get closer to cliff faces is just so bizarre that I have to wonder if my eyes are playing tricks on me.

In comparison to BOTW the world of Hisui does look barren and it's a bit of a shame, but I guess for the game to run at dynamic 1080p, they certainly achieved their goal of what they wanted to prioritize though.

Lack of AA is frustrating though; after coming from the 3DS mainline games where you could be more forgiving with a 240p screen to this, it's a bit of a shame.
 
The pop-in is really the only thing that bothers me. I was genuinely surprised to see that the game was pushing 1080p, dipping only to 900p. Impressive. There are lots of visual glitches aside from that. Fixing the shadows, pop-in, and adding a little AA and I think the art style, as it is now, would be perfectly servicable.
 
ILikeFeet said:
I don't believe this. there's no difference between handheld mode and docked mode. the better performance is simply because of the lower resolution alpha effects not overloading the gpu. the game isn't that gpu limited as evident by the resolution choices
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Your choice.
I mean, like you said, "there's no difference between handheld mode and docked mode" (except the framerate), and that was because they make it for handheld mode first.

If it was made for docked mode first, then usually we will see docked mode have better LOD than in handheld mode, a lot of things will be scaled down for handheld, but if you make it for handheld mode first, it will be "scaled up" - but in PLA case, the only thing scaled up is resolution.
It explains why it has a lower-res texture, even for clothes that definitely do not take as much power as rock, ground, world texture, so no reason for clothes to be like that if it using docked mode as the base. The only possible explanation is it was made for handheld, and it is passable.
 
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