-
Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
Discussion Controversial topic: Mario Kart or "Smash Kart"?
- Thread starter Terrell
- Start date
AuthenticM
Son Altesse Sérénissime
Definitely Smash Kart. I want Samus and Bayonetta in Mario Kart. And Snake.
Deleted User 1
Self-requested account removal
NOOOOOOOOO.
I dont want to imagine Bayonetta sitting in a Kart and driving around. Link looks weird enough in Mario Kart 8.
AuthenticM
Son Altesse Sérénissime
Bayonetta's kart could be made out of her hair, like her summonings.NOOOOOOOOO.
Think about it. It would work.
Deleted User 1
Self-requested account removal
Bayonetta's kart could be made out of her hair, like her summonings.
Think about it. It would work.
I'm trying to think about it
but it doesn't compute in my mind. Imagine Bayonetta in her regular outfit sitting like Link in a Kart. Maybe.... unless they change her outfit like the princesses when they are in a kart
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can understand wanting the opportunity to mine a particular series for all its perceived value. But if you're waiting it out for Wart or Captain Syrup (who I had to Google, BTW), my feeling is that you'll be waiting for long after your loved ones are putting you in a nursing home.
I think looking at it just from a character perspective is the wrong approach. Courses and (as previously mentioned) potential for item variation are where the idea shines. As much as I enjoy Smash stages, they have a similar issue to what you describe with characters in Mario Kart, they do not convey the same level of personality as the characters themselves do in Smash. A kart course, however, allows for a greater exploration of the worlds these characters exist in.
Make a course for Advance Wars where you can watch the Orange Star Army overtake Blue Moon and finishing with them taking the enemy base. Or, in a similar theme, a Corneria course that has Andross' siege of the planet viewed from the ground, instead of it just vaguely scrolling along (and barely visible) in the background behind the Great Fox.
Make an Inkopolis course where, from continued territory control, the course progressively turns a little slick in spots with ink spray.
Do a Zebes course where the final lap involves the planetary self-destruct, with the course changing to include debris.
I don't think there's any arguing against what you're saying, that character inclusion alone is NOT the draw of this idea. But thinking about it only in those terms also discounts other elements.
Well, I think we really forget at times that, in spite of it being full of nods to a number of Nintendo franchises, Smash still GROSSLY favours Mario content, by virtue of its longevity and expansion through the years. Characters? Stages? Hell, even items to a degree? They all grossly tip in favour of the Mario series, with only Pokemon coming close to the crown of "most represented series in Smash" by every measure. (and I'm one of those folks who doesn't complain about it but agrees Fire Emblem is grossly over-represented on the Smash character roster, but fails in representation by pretty well every other measure)
Well, item balance has always been a tricky thing in Mario Kart. Hell, it took until 8 to balance out the power of the blue shell with something that could avoid it. I'd hope that they'd keep that in mind for further entries, regardless of how they proceed.
Well, as I stated, not married to the name, it's just a common short-hand for the idea. But I think so long as the cover and promo material prominently features Mario in a go-kart, the consumer confusion will be at an absolute minimum.
I think some of Mario Kart's perennial sales and great design is because there's only one kart racer per console. Making 2 might be a bad idea from this perspective, splitting development ideas and energy across 2 games that are so immensely similar.
You'll forgive me that I'm not terribly concerned with hype preservation. I can't play hype.
Last edited:
GamerJM
Chain Chomp
This is completely fair and I'd probably agree with you in any other circumstance. I just think there's something super special about Smash Bros. as a crossover.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Maybe.
But then again, here comes the Mario Hollywood film bringing back Foreman Spike, of all characters to reach back for. Would it be presumptuous to say you had to do your Googles for someone like him, as well?
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Took me a hot second to remember, but I knew who he was. But I'm old enough to have played Wrecking Crew close to launch and read the instruction manual, and I can guarantee most people are going to think he's an OC for the movie. LOL
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I rather want a Mario themed Mariokart again. One of the best part of MK8 is the subtile World Building in the tracks. It would be really interesting if they explore this in a successor. Otherwise if they do a Nintendo Kart, they should do one Franchise per cup to keep some theme/story.
Mina
Famicom Detective
- Pronouns
- She/They
Keep it Mario themed with guests. I like Link, Isabelle, and the Inklings showing up as guest characters. But I think turning it into Smash Kart would make the tracks far less interesting. Courses like Moo Moo Meadows or Electrodrome can’t exist in Smash Kart.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don’t really want a smash kart. Having the occasional character or track from another ip is fine, but I’d rather they stick with the Mario theme
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Why not?
Mass Effect
Favorite user on the Citadel
Mario Kart with Smash-like DLC.
MinionZero
Frostare
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mario Kart is a brand name that needs to be used to get the initial attention. Nintendo Land certainly didn't win people over just because Nintendo was in the name (though very different situation).
I think keeping Mario Kart Mario themed is best, if only because there is an obvious overlap of Mario and Kart racing fans that are not as knowledgeable on Nintendo's more niche franchises. However, I am totally down with DLC having guest franchises join. I mean, in MK8 we had Zelda, Excitebike, F-Zero, and Animal Crossing in the mix. I'm down to see more, but not in the core game.
And we already have Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and DK stuff all included. That's like a mini-smash in of itself!
I think keeping Mario Kart Mario themed is best, if only because there is an obvious overlap of Mario and Kart racing fans that are not as knowledgeable on Nintendo's more niche franchises. However, I am totally down with DLC having guest franchises join. I mean, in MK8 we had Zelda, Excitebike, F-Zero, and Animal Crossing in the mix. I'm down to see more, but not in the core game.
And we already have Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and DK stuff all included. That's like a mini-smash in of itself!
Lichtsang
Goddess of Bravery
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm all for more non-Mario characters in Mario Kart. But they shouldn't and they won't change the name, for good reason. It's iconic, it's a brand. Would be dumb to change it. It doesn't matter that Mario is in the title. We already have Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon in it, just continue!
TheCongressman
Offical Seal of Quality™
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't really feel strongly one way or another. It's not like Smash where each character has wildly different gameplay. It's a kart racer, they all play pretty much the same.
I'm fine with whatever characters, but Mario Kart is a better name.
I'm fine with whatever characters, but Mario Kart is a better name.
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I agree wholeheartedly with this (except maybe the Samus thing). I want to make sure I'm abundantly clear that the character roster is perhaps the lowest consideration and doesn't even need a character from every series. I'm not against it, but it's not necessary.
But if we're talking about the "Mario Kart aesthetic" and the purity thereof, I have 1 image and some follow-up questions:
- How does a Mercedes SUV conform to the Mario Kart aesthetic?
- If it doesn't, then isn't Nintendo already beyond the pale with regards to preserving pre-determined aesthetics and is fully content with re-defining them?
- If it does, then isn't the "Mario Kart aesthetic" a bit of a moving target?
winstein
Bob-omb
I am of the belief that the Mario aspect of Mario Kart should be built, mainly because of how wide the Mario series can cover, even if it's just the enemies. As mentioned, Mario Kart Tour has a diverse cast of characters and that game doesn't even have the guest characters. Besides, by changing it to a more crossover-like game, it would ultimately strip some of the familiar characteristics of Mario Kart like the items, and the chance for less-popular Mario characters to shine.
Thank you for reading.
Thank you for reading.
Soul Skater
Koopa
I support Smash Kart on the condition we also get a Diddy Kong Racing game with an island of Misfit toys roster of characters that would never make it in Smash/ Mario Kart
Eggplant Wizard, that little guy from Pushmo, etc
if we don’t get the rekongciliation bill I’ll vote against the bikartisan bill so we all get neither
Eggplant Wizard, that little guy from Pushmo, etc
if we don’t get the rekongciliation bill I’ll vote against the bikartisan bill so we all get neither
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Given that I personally feel that Smash Bros has evolved (post-Brawl) into being a more general celebration of gaming rather than a love letter to old Nintendo titles, I would definitely love to see a Smash-esque collaboration dip into a non-fighting game genre, like kart racing.
Really, I just want a title where the likes of Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, and Mike Jones can compete against Karate Joe, Mona, and Kyle Hyde in some goofy way. I don't particularly want to see the cast of Smash Ultimate transported into a kart racing game. I want more of the classic and/or niche characters we're unlikely to see in a future Smash because of how big it's gotten. Like Pit and Ice Climbers once were.
...But I'm not sure I'd want that title to take over for Mario Kart...
Really, I just want a title where the likes of Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, and Mike Jones can compete against Karate Joe, Mona, and Kyle Hyde in some goofy way. I don't particularly want to see the cast of Smash Ultimate transported into a kart racing game. I want more of the classic and/or niche characters we're unlikely to see in a future Smash because of how big it's gotten. Like Pit and Ice Climbers once were.
...But I'm not sure I'd want that title to take over for Mario Kart...
Shaoran Hyku
Rattata
I mean, if having Mario only characters means that you will continue to not include Diddy Kong but generic mario enemies, then yes, go full Nintendo Kart.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I definitely like it more as a Mario focused series, but I don't mind some guest characters and tracks. I think MK8D handled this very well overall. I'd like to see some deeper cuts and a lot of the characters from the mobile game make it over that haven't been in other Mario Karts before. But the ultimate magic of Mario Kart for me is it realizing Mario's world in a fun and different context, so that is the content that I'm looking for.
In general, I tend to like most when Mario Kart tracks are based on actual Mario game locations and themes as opposed to non-Mario stuff (Coconut Mall, Moo Moo Meadows, etc), so I hope to see that continue!
In general, I tend to like most when Mario Kart tracks are based on actual Mario game locations and themes as opposed to non-Mario stuff (Coconut Mall, Moo Moo Meadows, etc), so I hope to see that continue!
Catalyst
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mercedes was always a weird decision since it’s not even from a video game, it’s a real life car lol. So in that case yes they are already over the line, much more so than any Nintendo character addition.I agree wholeheartedly with this (except maybe the Samus thing). I want to make sure I'm abundantly clear that the character roster is perhaps the lowest consideration and doesn't even need a character from every series. I'm not against it, but it's not necessary.
But if we're talking about the "Mario Kart aesthetic" and the purity thereof, I have 1 image and some follow-up questions:
- How does a Mercedes SUV conform to the Mario Kart aesthetic?
- If it doesn't, then isn't Nintendo already beyond the pale with regards to preserving pre-determined aesthetics and is fully content with re-defining them?
- If it does, then isn't the "Mario Kart aesthetic" a bit of a moving target?
But in the end I don’t think it matters that much. I just want a Mario Kart game in any form at this point, but if tasked with making one I’d keep the strategy of mostly Mario with some guest characters.
Keep it Mario with some bonus guest characters. While I'd like to see the occasional stuff like a metroid track I like that it has a strong identity and Mario has almost infinite potential for interesting tracks and power ups. I don't see what adding franchises will add to it, besides removing the charm.
As long as they do away with all the babies and pink gold coloured characters I don't really care whether they go for Ashley, Pit, or Pauline. Just give me more variety. Whether that be from the greater Mario universe (including DK and Wario characters) or from other Nintendo franchises all together.
I would love more tracks from different Nintendo franchises. Give me a Metroid track, a Kid Icarus track, and a Xenoblade track. Putting the actual characters of those franchises in karts might look a bit weird but just the tracks would be great.
I would love more tracks from different Nintendo franchises. Give me a Metroid track, a Kid Icarus track, and a Xenoblade track. Putting the actual characters of those franchises in karts might look a bit weird but just the tracks would be great.
For me Mario Kart isn't about the characters - it's about the courses. We already saw with Mario Kart 8 that the non-Mario tracks were based on established locations, while the Mario universe allows for all sorts of made up locations.
If they went down the "Smash" route I feel this would not only mean all the non-Mario tracks would be limited to actual game locations (because. while we'd all happily accept 'Waluigi's Rubbish Tip' as a track, no one would be accepting of 'Samus' Rubbish Tip' over something actually from Metroid), but also the Mario tracks would have to be based on actual Mario games (and yes, I'm aware this is actually true for Super Mario Kart, but that was the first game).
I feel Mario Kart 8 and its DLC struck the best balance - it's Mario Kart plus a few cameos. If anything having a few cameos makes said cameos feel more special.
Actually, one thing I liked was the tracks not tied to the DLC characters like Excite Bike and F-Zero. If Mario Kart is to continue with cameo tracks, focusing on Nintendo's other past racing properties would be neat road to go down, especially as Smash Bros hasn't really explored those.
If they went down the "Smash" route I feel this would not only mean all the non-Mario tracks would be limited to actual game locations (because. while we'd all happily accept 'Waluigi's Rubbish Tip' as a track, no one would be accepting of 'Samus' Rubbish Tip' over something actually from Metroid), but also the Mario tracks would have to be based on actual Mario games (and yes, I'm aware this is actually true for Super Mario Kart, but that was the first game).
I feel Mario Kart 8 and its DLC struck the best balance - it's Mario Kart plus a few cameos. If anything having a few cameos makes said cameos feel more special.
Actually, one thing I liked was the tracks not tied to the DLC characters like Excite Bike and F-Zero. If Mario Kart is to continue with cameo tracks, focusing on Nintendo's other past racing properties would be neat road to go down, especially as Smash Bros hasn't really explored those.
- Pronouns
- He/him
I do not want Smash Kart.
Mario has dozens upon dozens of cool characters, and I would much rather see characters that otherwise wouldn’t get their turn in the spotlight like Chargin Chuck and Wart show up in Kart than big guns like Pikachu and Samus.
If they do a cameo here and there as DLC, that’s fine, but not as the focus of the game.
Mario has dozens upon dozens of cool characters, and I would much rather see characters that otherwise wouldn’t get their turn in the spotlight like Chargin Chuck and Wart show up in Kart than big guns like Pikachu and Samus.
If they do a cameo here and there as DLC, that’s fine, but not as the focus of the game.
javac
Rattata
Most video games unfortunately involve combat, which is good for Smash bros as it means it's easier to translate for example Sora into a fighter because you already have the move-set to work from, and it means you can adhere to the characters true essence and bring them to life and pay respect to the source material and delight fans. In a kart game it'll still be fun to play as your favourite character, as it already is in Mario Kart and the plethora of other Kart games out there, and you can most definitely still add flavour, music, stages, items, and vehicles that refer and pay respect to the source material but it's no way near as cool. You'll just see the back of Sora's head, now if you could race to Simple and Clean...
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Stay Mario Kart, only have crossovers with Nintendo's most iconic or legendary franchises.
Don't exactly need to be only the DLC.
If the next Mario Kart has Link, Samus, Inklings, Villager, maybe Fox or Captain Falcon, it'll be really great. It won't be a real crossover game, they don't be guest characters just like half of them already were in 8/DX.
As other's have said already, Mario has a huge universe and there are loads of other characters that didn't make it. The things that needs to be done is also picking characters from the RPGs and other spin offs. Also taking a couple more characters from Yoshi, DK and Wario.
PS: is there any non-DK crossover character in Tour?? I think Link makes too much sense to not come eventually. I think it's a bummer they didn't spotlight Metroid in Mario Kart yet.
Don't exactly need to be only the DLC.
If the next Mario Kart has Link, Samus, Inklings, Villager, maybe Fox or Captain Falcon, it'll be really great. It won't be a real crossover game, they don't be guest characters just like half of them already were in 8/DX.
As other's have said already, Mario has a huge universe and there are loads of other characters that didn't make it. The things that needs to be done is also picking characters from the RPGs and other spin offs. Also taking a couple more characters from Yoshi, DK and Wario.
PS: is there any non-DK crossover character in Tour?? I think Link makes too much sense to not come eventually. I think it's a bummer they didn't spotlight Metroid in Mario Kart yet.
Diddy Kong
Tektite
Mario Kart should stay as Mario Kart. I never bother using Link or the other guests in MK8. Feels so out of place. The courses are cool though.
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can agree with this. In reality, it took close to 10 years of making Smash before they began including 3rd-parties (all 2 of them), and nothing mandates it for a Kart game.
I agree, not every franchise needs a racer, but courses? Go for it.
See, I'm not against original tracks. Like, I look at Moo Moo Meadows, Ice Ice Outpost, Ribbon Road and Cheese Land and see nothing inherently "Mario" about them. And I'm fine with that. I'm more than good with totally original Kart-unique courses that have little to nothing to do with any series. I'm already OK with it in Mario Kart as it is and don't consider that incompatible with any of the presented scenarios.
I can't help but think folks have some pre-conceived notions about what each of these choices actually mean.
Psycho Lurantis
Rattata
I'd say it should stay as Mario Kart, but there should be more guests from outside the series.
Get rid of the boring koopalings and replace them with Kirby, Starfox etc.
Get rid of the boring koopalings and replace them with Kirby, Starfox etc.
Sander RX
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He, Him
This right here is the true appeal of “Smash” Kart, not Kirby in a kart.
I don’t even need a change in branding, items from other franchises and most of the stuff like that.
I just want kickass racetracks based on other franchises.
jts
Rattata
We have to keep in mind that Super Smash Bros. is an auteur game. It is like it is because it’s the brainchild and the life work of Sakurai. It’s not simply a Nintendo formula to apply to other series.
Even that aside, Mario Kart is a household name and one of the highest selling franchises in the world on its own right. That specific part will not change because no company in its right mind will through away a multimillion dollar brand with over a dozen games and merchandise.
As far as the formula goes, I mean we already saw with MK8 the introduction of characters out of the Marioverse. I think we’ll see more of that but something a lot more contained that Smash Bros. Because it’s really hard to mimic that model.
I think that’s the least of the “problems” of Mario Kart. This has been the longest time for a Mario Kart fan without new games and tracks (especially if we don’t count the mobile game) and that’s truly terrible. It’s the best of times (sales), it’s the worst of times (turnout of actual content). I miss wanting to play Mario Kart.
Even that aside, Mario Kart is a household name and one of the highest selling franchises in the world on its own right. That specific part will not change because no company in its right mind will through away a multimillion dollar brand with over a dozen games and merchandise.
As far as the formula goes, I mean we already saw with MK8 the introduction of characters out of the Marioverse. I think we’ll see more of that but something a lot more contained that Smash Bros. Because it’s really hard to mimic that model.
I think that’s the least of the “problems” of Mario Kart. This has been the longest time for a Mario Kart fan without new games and tracks (especially if we don’t count the mobile game) and that’s truly terrible. It’s the best of times (sales), it’s the worst of times (turnout of actual content). I miss wanting to play Mario Kart.
A Nintendo crossover kart game where the tracks aren't based on Nintendo properties just doesn't sound like the scenario people want when they suggest a Nintendo crossover kart game. If you're happy with that then we might as well stick with it being Mario Kart with a few guests.
OP
OP
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean... it's a good thing that it doesn't have to "mimic that model". Smash is its own beast, I'm not saying any different. But designing a game with that in mind from the outset and expanding on it in different ways doesn't require this giant sprawling auteur masterpiece. Honestly, I find Smash to be a little bloated because of that (but I'll save the rest of my thoughts there for another thread).
Again, I need to stress: "Smash Kart" is just a placeholder name for an idea, hence the quotations. It does not mean I want it to be like Smash in every facet. It just means they can be more interested in crossover from the outset, which includes courses, characters and other ideas like item mechanics. It doesn't have to be a big and grandiose.... thing. @SMD made the point more clear: more like Sonic Racing Transformed, celebrating as much of Nintendo gaming as one can reasonably cram into it, while keeping the great Mario Kart gameplay and design elements we enjoy. How far they go is up to them, but that's really (I think) all anyone is asking for when this idea is brought up.
I don't get where this "it has to be a crossover with nothing uniquely original in it or it may as well stay the same" mindset comes from. It feels reductive. I think I and others are fully capable of wanting and appreciating both, but this response paints a notion that we don't appreciate Mario Kart already for what it is, which just ain't the case. Whatever Kart Nintendo makes next, I'm going to be interested, I'm super likely to buy it.
This response runs up against my feeling I posted about earlier that people don't seem to understand what folks like me are asking for when this idea comes up. It's like some only see subtraction, not addition.
