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Retro Can we all agree that Labyrinth Zone sucks in Sonic The Hedgehog (especially the PAL version)

the_marmolade

the_marmolade

Quality Assurance Tester in Video Game Industry
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Just finished Sonic the Hedgehog 1 on one of my CRTs specifically the Panasonic AG-500 aka the microwave crt. Oh, boy, does Labyrinth Zone sucks due to the fact the slowdowns in the underwater sections and too many freaking spikes place most awkward places throughout levels. I hope Sonic Team doesn't revisit Labyrinth Zone in future games this level should be banned from all Sonic games.
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Still feels weird seeing an old game running at Pal speeds, like my brain is telling me the 60hz was the one I played not this. Sucks what we had to put up with back then.
 
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I feel like people would agree that Sonic 1 in general kinda sucks. Thankfully the water levels in future Sonic games were all around pretty good. Even when Dimps, the kings of cheap design, did them it was pretty manageable. Except Lost Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 4 episode 1 but that also BARELY uses water and the game in general blows.
 
Sonic-The-Hedgehog-Master-System-7-Labyrinth-Zone.png

Not this one though!

I always loved how distinct the Master System version felt! The music is kinda ominous, the background being mostly black with few details felt like we were deeply in a lost ruins in the ocean. And level design also isn't that bad.
 
Red Monster said:
is this what the kids call irony?

ok yeah he’s doing an irony folks
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marble zone is actually good, way better than labyrinth zone

to me classic sonic is all about knowing when to pull punches and "stealing bases" whenever you get the chance. marble zone is built for that and I greatly enjoy it

to be clear, all of these sonic 1 zones are worse than anything in 2
 
Sonic 1 is vibes. These zones creeped me out and felt lonely when I was a kid. The music added to that.

Maybe this is blasphemy but I prefer the Genesis Sonic games + Mania in general to 2D Mario, I love the atmosphere of these games. Going through strange theme parks, ancient ruins, and mechanical wonders. Like a hero in a Saturday morning cartoon.
 
Serif said:
Sonic 1 is vibes. These zones creeped me out and felt lonely when I was a kid. The music added to that.

Maybe this is blasphemy but I prefer the Genesis Sonic games + Mania in general to 2D Mario, I love the atmosphere of these games. Going through strange theme parks, ancient ruins, and mechanical wonders. Like a hero in a Saturday morning cartoon.
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STRONGLY agree

classic sonic is an incredible setting and world for a video game, probably the best ever. there are so many little facets that perfectly integrate the world and desired gameplay, my favorite being the fact that every enemy death actually frees an animal; a "moral route" of sonic would arguably demand "killing" every enemy
 
Raccoon said:
STRONGLY agree

classic sonic is an incredible setting and world for a video game, probably the best ever. there are so many little facets that perfectly integrate the world and desired gameplay, my favorite being the fact that every enemy death actually frees an animal; a "moral route" of sonic would arguably demand "killing" every enemy
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The storytelling in these games is extremely strong.

Not a single word is uttered in any of these games but you still get the throughline of a narrative. Final Zone, Sky Chase, Hidden Palace zone with its mural prophecy, Sky Sanctuary, all the interactions with Knuckles, Doomsday... are all seared into my mind.

These games feel authentic and sincere in their depiction of a threatened world without overdoing the 'grittiness' or 'edge'. We accept the inherent wackiness of a blue hedgehog fighting Theodore Roosevelt because of the presentation and theming.
 
While Sonic 1 feels really awkward due to the later games' more pronounced speed sections (while Sonic 1 focuses more on pure platforming), I've come around to Labyrinth in general; I still dread water levels in Sonic games, but Labyrinth does't feel that worse than any of the others.

Plus, gotta love that music (especially the 8-bit version).
 
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Eh. I mean, it wasn’t good, but it wasn’t THAAAAT bad IMO. I think worse water levels exist that should be the poster child of water physics sucking complete and utter shite
 
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There is a scary game crashing glitch in Labyrinth Zone too. All the more reason to scorn this level.
 
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I'm gonna be a contrarian and say that Labyrinth Zone wasn't bad at all. It's one of the slower paced Zones, but I don't mind it.

Though I agree with @Raccoon that Marble Zone is better.
 
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While perhaps not as bad as some make them out to be, I generally think the classic Sonic games got better about platforming/slower level segments in future entries. There's something to the back and forth between Zones focusing on what we now consider more "Sonic" style levels more standard platforming, but by the time we get to Sonic 3K we have acts that are a lot more holistic in their approaches.

You can say something about how the most beloved water zones in Sonic are the ones that de-emphasize water or use it as just an occasional hazard - Sonic 2 is especially guilty of this. It's even to the point where the Mania Hyrdrocity, which tries in its first act to incorporate slower paced mechanics from other water zones, is arguably less "fun" than the Sonic 3 version, whereas most of the other remade zones feel like straight-up upgrades or are at least on-par with the originals. But I get it - water is used deliberately in Sonic to slow down the pace, to change the flow in a way that restricts the player. It's a good challenge, especially in games with a spin dash, but feeling sluggish and restricted in a game about good movement isn't gonna feel good! On purpose!
 
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Sonic 1 isn't a bad platformer. Specifically, the Master System version of Sonic 1 is a very good platformer. It keeps the speediness while cutting down some of the sprawl of the level design, and focuses on just making each level a good level for running and jumping.

It's a much much stronger game than the Mega Drive version
 
Serif said:
Maybe this is blasphemy but I prefer the Genesis Sonic games + Mania in general to 2D Mario, I love the atmosphere of these games. Going through strange theme parks, ancient ruins, and mechanical wonders. Like a hero in a Saturday morning cartoon.
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same tbh. I'd probably rate any classic 2d Sonic higher than any classic 2d Mario. I think the general vibes and moment-to-moment "fun factor" are just better than Mario in the Genesis-era (+Mania) games.

It's only really in the 3D games where I'd say Mario definitely pulled ahead of Sonic.
 
Serif said:
Sonic 1 is vibes. These zones creeped me out and felt lonely when I was a kid. The music added to that.

Maybe this is blasphemy but I prefer the Genesis Sonic games + Mania in general to 2D Mario, I love the atmosphere of these games. Going through strange theme parks, ancient ruins, and mechanical wonders. Like a hero in a Saturday morning cartoon.
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I'd take 3K over any of the 2D Marios (I consider it my favorite 2D platformer) but besides that I don't think the general gameplay and level design is up to par. The visuals and worldbuilding are definitely better in Sonic overall, though.
 
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Yeah, I agree. Sonic 1 is certainly my least favorite of the classics overall.

I read that Green Hill was the last level developed as they wanted to put in everything the learned into making the first level a hook, if so, that was exactly the right move. Make sure the first level is fun, replayable, and utilizes Sonic's moveset to the fullest. It shows exactly what the game is about. Green Hill is one of the best levels in gaming imo.

But unfortunately the rest of the levels don't quite match that quality. I couldn't imagine the series gaining it's popularity if the game started with Marble zone instead.

But with labyrinth, my problem isn't the water physics. One of my favorite Sonic zones is Hydrocity. My problem is that unlike Hydrocity, there's no ramps at all. The core of Sonic's moveset is just completely unused in that level.
 
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Funny story, I was going to say that while this level sucks, the concept of it wasn't too bad and there was some clever parts to it. Sonic being slow isn't necessarily a bad concept, and can have some interesting things done with it.

....Then I realized I was thinking about Marble Zone. Nah, Labyrinth Zone just sucks ass.

Sonic 1 in general is a weird game. I beat it for the first time this year after having friends meme the shit out of the sonic games for years and thought it was generally subpar, almost downright terrible. I first played it on the Sonic Genesis Collection and remember really liking it though (but like most kids I would always stop at around the middle of Labyrinth Zone or the beginning of Act 3). In some ways the fact that not every level is about going fast allows the developers to do some interesting things ... but in other ways ... most ways ... a lot of the game is kind of bad or unfun. The only good levels are Green Hill Zone and Star Light Zone, the rest ranges from mediocre to bad.

Also a lot of Sonic 1 music is grating AF. It's always catchy and nice to listen to (except for Labryinth Zone), but it gets irritating fast.
 
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My favorite part of Sonic 1 is when you see the big obvious slopes in Spring Yard Zone, but if you go to roll down them like you would in any other Sonic game you smack straight into a spiked ball. All talk of how they hadn't yet figured out how to design levels that were well-suited to Sonic's gameplay aside, it's just kind of an obnoxious game in general. A lot of classic Sonic levels have a problem with being obnoxious on a blind playthrough (sometimes widescreen helps a lot, sometimes it doesn't), but Sonic 1 is constantly getting in its own way. It can't just let you try to take Labyrinth Zone's design on its own merits, it has to throw in floor tiles that suddenly rise up to crush you against the ceiling and shit.

Also, blasphemy time:
Chaos > Triple Trouble >>> Blast > 1 8-bit > 2 8-bit

Sonic 1 8-bit is like some dime a dozen 90's Disney platformer that no one would give a shit about today if it didn't have the brand attached. Blast is actually completely inoffensive all the way up until the incomprehensible water level, which is a much larger percentage of the game. I'd rather play 16-bit Labyrinth Zone than the Jungle Zone vertical level, and that's not even the first bad part of that game.
 
Raccoon said:
to be clear, all of these sonic 1 zones are worse than anything in 2
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Do you think Green Hill Zone is worse than Emerald Hill Zone? I think they're both good, but would generally lean towards Green Hill (The Mania version might be giving it some nostalgia though...)

In general I've always thought that Green Hill vs Emerald Hill vs Angel Island would be an interesting poll and topic for debate, Though Angel Island might be making that too easy for a lot of people.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Do you think Green Hill Zone is worse than Emerald Hill Zone? I think they're both good, but would generally lean towards Green Hill (The Mania version might be giving it some nostalgia though...)

In general I've always thought that Green Hill vs Emerald Hill vs Angel Island would be an interesting poll and topic for debate, Though Angel Island might be making that too easy for a lot of people.
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I'd probably put Emerald over Green but honestly I'm not sure
 
Stilt Village said:
I'd rather play 16-bit Labyrinth Zone than the Jungle Zone vertical level, and that's not even the first bad part of that game.
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Seems like someone only ever played the Game Gear versions of these games, unlike us, cool kids, that had the privilege of playing the COOL Master System 😎
 
CyberWolfJV said:
Seems like someone only ever played the Game Gear versions of these games, unlike us, cool kids, that had the privilege of playing the COOL Master System 😎
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I played the Master System version of all of them, even Blast! The sole reason Triple Trouble is ranked below Chaos is because it doesn't have a MS version.
 
Stilt Village said:
I played the Master System version of all of them, even Blast! The sole reason Triple Trouble is ranked below Chaos is because it doesn't have a MS version.
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Jungle Zone Act 2 isn't all that bad on the Master System tho! I mean.. it's slippery, and you can still die of just barely making the ground below you disappear.. but at least you can see lots more around you!

I played that game all too much, to be fair.. but even as kid, only Scrap Brain gave me real trouble;
 
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It sure does. There's two easy ways to mitgate how much Labyrinth sucks though:
  1. Play the Taxman remaster and enable elemental shields. Having bubble shields available for Labyrinth is a huge help, as long as you can avoid getting hit. Enabling the 7th Emerald also means you can get Super Sonic for Act 2 and 3, which pretty much mitigates the entire thing.
  2. Play the MegaPlay version of Sonic 1 (available through the Sega Ages release on Switch). It entirely skips over Labyrinth and by extension Scrap Brain Act 3 (also Marble).
I'm a Marble fan though, sorry to say. You can skip past a lot of the waiting just through taking risky jumps. Remaster once again helps by letting you enable flame shields; can skip good chunks of the acts just through walking on lava.

Mer.Saloon said:
So hard to believe this was almost the 2nd level.
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I think it was a great idea on paper to have the zones progress from all-natural to full dystopia (Green Hill -> Labyrinth -> Marble -> Star Light -> Spring Yard -> Scrap Brain); they just fumbled by designing Labyrinth to be way too hard and didn't have the dev time to redesign it from scratch.

Some cohesion across zones is something they tried to achieve from the start but didn't really manage until Sonic 3. Sonic 2's original plan also attempted something similar in theory; the game set across different time periods that would change with story events. Multiple zones had clear equivalents across the different eras too; Emerald Hill (originally Green Hill), Mystic Cave (originally Dust Hill), Hill Top (originally ) and Chemical Plant being the same spot in the present, ruined present, past and future respectively.
 
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MondoMega said:
It sure does. There's two easy ways to mitgate how much Labyrinth sucks though:
  1. Play the Taxman remaster and enable elemental shields. Having bubble shields available for Labyrinth is a huge help, as long as you can avoid getting hit. Enabling the 7th Emerald also means you can get Super Sonic for Act 2 and 3, which pretty much mitigates the entire thing.
  2. Play the MegaPlay version of Sonic 1 (available through the Sega Ages release on Switch). It entirely skips over Labyrinth and by extension Scrap Brain Act 3 (also Marble).
I'm a Marble fan though, sorry to say. You can skip past a lot of the waiting just through taking risky jumps. Remaster once again helps by letting you enable flame shields; can skip good chunks of the acts just through walking on lava.



I think it was a great idea on paper to have the zones progress from all-natural to full dystopia (Green Hill -> Labyrinth -> Marble -> Star Light -> Spring Yard -> Scrap Brain); they just fumbled by designing Labyrinth to be way too hard and didn't have the dev time to redesign it from scratch.

Some cohesion across zones is something they tried to achieve from the start but didn't really manage until Sonic 3. Sonic 2's original plan also attempted something similar in theory; the game set across different time periods that would change with story events. Multiple zones had clear equivalents across the different eras too; Emerald Hill (originally Green Hill), Mystic Cave (originally Dust Hill), Hill Top (originally ) and Chemical Plant being the same spot in the present, ruined present, past and future respectively.
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As valid as this is (and as great as the Taxman ports of the Sonic games are), I find it very funny that the two proposed solutions are "put in a cheat code to put in a cheat code that also prevents saving your game" and "just play the version that skips the whole thing"! Labyrinth Zone has that bad of a reputation! I'm so glad that things got smoothed out by the time we got to 3K - now that is a classic.
 
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I don't think it's exactly a hot take to say Sonic 1 has worse level design than 2 and 3&K. Green Hill is a classic (if way overplayed now) and Star Light is pretty cool, but all of the other zones have very awkward pacing and don't really reward skillful play the way later games do.
 
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It's the zone I dread the most whenever I replay Sonic 1.

However...the reward is you get to play the best zone in Sonic 1 so it's worth it.
 
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CyberWolfJV said:
Sonic-The-Hedgehog-Master-System-7-Labyrinth-Zone.png

Not this one though!

I always loved how distinct the Master System version felt! The music is kinda ominous, the background being mostly black with few details felt like we were deeply in a lost ruins in the ocean. And level design also isn't that bad.
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Weird personal take, but Sonic 1 SMS is sooooo much better than the Genesis one imo.
 
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