RTTP Bloodstained is really, really good... but why the frick is the Switch version so bad?

[Hero of Hyrule]

So since I got done with Dread, I've been on a Metroidvania games kick. I've got Ori 1 and 2, Axion Verge 1 and 2, Hollow Knight, and of course, Bloodstained, all lined up to get through, and I figured I would play Bloodstained first because a) much like Dread, it's the return of a classic stalwart of the genre, and b) it's the most different from Dread and the others, thanks to its RPG elements.

And I'm really liking it! Bloodstained is remarkably well designed, and it's basically a new Castlevania by Igarashi in all but name (a lot of the time it can barely keep the pretence up, lol). From the lore to the world design to the mechanics to the progression, everything about Bloodstained is great to me.

One thing, however, is not. And that's how bad the Switch version is.

Honestly, just going from Dread (one of the best looking and performing games on the system) right after to Bloodstained is already a pretty big shock to the system, but even if I take it on its own merits, I don't understand why Bloodstained runs and looks as poorly on the Switch as it does. The image is blurry and sub-native, there's random dropped frames without any provocation whatsoever, and the loading between screen transitions can be annoyingly long.

I do understand why Switch versions of many games run poorer relative to the other ones - like The Witcher 3 or DOOM running worse on Switch over the other systems? Makes total sense. Bloodstained? I have no idea why. It's a great game, but it's a pretty straightforward side scroller. There's nothing in it that should make the Switch chug this badly. And this is after they fixed it, apparently - what state was this game in at launch?

Again, this isn't so bad that it detracts from Bloodstained's brilliance, and on the whole it runs well enough that I'll see it through to the end (since it's likely the only way I actually see it through to the end), but it's so weird that it runs this badly. It's especially hilarious that after all this, this version a) still sold the best and b) that Igarashi didn't see that coming (in spite of seven Castlevania games having created a built in audience for these games on Nintendo systems). I would have figured that there would have ben some internal understanding that the Switch version of Bloodstained will, if not be the bestselling one, at the very least sell an appreciable amount, enough for it to get some focus, but for reasons beyond me, that never happened.

Whatever the internal reasoning may have been, though, Bloodstained is great, and if you haven't already, I hugely recommend that you check it out. Yes, even the Switch version is... fine. If you have someplace else to play it (and know you will actually see it through to the end on there), I would definitely recommend those versions over this one, but regardless of how you get here, it's definitely a game worth playing.

 

[dark_prinny]

I might go ahead and get it. I must play a Castlevania this halloween.

 

[dingbat]

Well, for one, the studio that made Bloodstained probably had a fraction of the resources and technical know-how behind the Switch version compared to MercurySteam and Nintendo with Dread. It was also not developed with the Switch in mind first and foremost, so optimization and design decisions did not take the system's capabilities into account from the outset, i.e. it was not designed from the ground up around the Switch like Dread. I imagine that kind of narrow focus allows you to do stuff that you could get away with working nicely on one system but then may not translate well to another.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

Well, for one, the studio that made Bloodstained probably had a fraction of the resources and technical know-how behind the Switch version compared to MercurySteam and Nintendo with Dread. It was also not developed with the Switch in mind first and foremost, so optimization and design decisions did not take the system's capabilities into account from the outset, i.e. it was not designed from the ground up around Switch like Dread.

I get this, but I also don't get what it's doing that simply brute forcing it on the Switch leaves us with a game that performs as poorly as this does.

 

[YolkFolk]

Well, for one, the studio that made Bloodstained probably had a fraction of the resources and technical know-how behind the Switch version compared to MercurySteam and Nintendo with Dread. It was also not developed with the Switch in mind first and foremost, so optimization and design decisions did not take the system's capabilities into account from the outset, i.e. it was not designed from the ground up around the Switch like Dread. I imagine that kind of narrow focus allows you to do stuff that you could get away with working nicely on one system but then may not translate well to another.

It actually sold better on Switch than it did on PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[steviestar]

I think it was just a timing issue - if the Switch had existed when the Kickstarter was initially funded (2015), it would have probably been made the lead platform or at least given more of a priority during development. As it stands now it feels like they primarily developed the game for next gen consoles and hastily backported it to Switch at the last minute.

 

[dingbat]

I get this, but I also don't get what it's doing that simply brute forcing it on the Switch leaves us with a game that performs as poorly as this does.

Yeah... It's not exactly a looker, is it? I was also very surprised that it looks and runs the way it does. The weird load times alone tell me that it was just put together in a way that's almost uniquely unsuited for the Switch's hardware.

It actually sold better on Switch than it did on PS4 and Xbox One.

I didn't mean to imply it didn't

 

[Jimmy Joe]

Given that the original design docket always called for a Wii U version, and historically indie games sold better on Nintendo platforms even in the Wii U days (or at least that was true of Shovel Knight), I've been continuously mystified that the Switch version of Bloodstained turned out the way it did

I think I'm going to end up playing it on PC, which is a shame, because I'd love to have it on the Switch and running all smoothly

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

Given that the original design docket always called for a Wii U version, and historically indie games sold better on Nintendo platforms even in the Wii U days (or at least that was true of Shovel Knight), I've been continuously mystified that the Switch version of Bloodstained turned out the way it did

I think I'm going to end up playing it on PC, which is a shame, because I'd love to have it on the Switch and running all smoothly

To be honest, it runs fine on Switch. Like it's obviously a subpar port, but it's perfectly adequate. It's just, if you expect more from it, you'll be disappointed.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

To be honest, it runs fine on Switch. Like it's obviously a subpar port, but it's perfectly adequate. It's just, if you expect more from it, you'll be disappointed.

Oh yeah that's totally fair, I'm just used to indie games running like... slick

And I won't lie, it'll be hard to go back to a subpar port after playing Dread, when I could play it on PC and having it running more or less as nicely as Dread does on Switch

 

[Pascal]

There's really no telling why Bloodstained performs the way it does on Switch. Especially when I don't think it's a particularly good looking game. I know there are all kinds of technical aspects you have to consider when talking about performance, but also fucking Doom Eternal runs quite well on Switch.

You also have to consider the fact that the game was plagued with all kinds of bugs and performance issues that have since been ironed out for the most part. This was true for every version, but I think it was especially true on Switch if memory serves.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

Oh yeah that's totally fair, I'm just used to indie games running like... slick

And I won't lie, it'll be hard to go back to a subpar port after playing Dread, when I could play it on PC and having it running more or less as nicely as Dread does on Switch

Oh yeah for sure, I think going straight from Dread to Bloodstained is what made me notice these kinds of things when I typically don't lol. But yes, if you think not playing it portably won't be a hindrance to you finishing it, PC is definitely the way to go!

 

[The Giant]

I must be only one of the few that has no problems with how the switch version ran.

 

[Vanillalite]

I might go ahead and get it. I must play a Castlevania this halloween.

Did you get the new collection yet?

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

I must be only one of the few that has no problems with how the switch version ran.

Like I said, I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a "problem", I think the game runs well enough to be acceptable, it's just a shock that adequacy is all it really manages.

 

[Tendo]

I might go ahead and get it. I must play a Castlevania this halloween.

If you don't mind pseudo retro games but also want games with a framerate that is stable the curse of the moon spin offs are both fantastic!

 

[shoptroll]

How optimized are most UE4 games on Switch? The game is mostly playable at this point but it’s pretty clear there’s something going on internally where either they’re targeting the wrong resolution, doing some horribly inefficient things (good lord load times with the occasional crash which I suspect might be a memory leak somewhere), or something else where an experience Switch UE4 developer might have handled it better.

My hope is that when the sequel is inevitably announced they’ll have prioritized Switch as the lead platform and built on that foundation for the other platforms. Instead of the reverse where they seemed to have prioritized the more powerful platforms and then made the necessary technical compromises to get it to run on Switch.

 

[Whelt]

I'm hoping the Steam Deck will enable me to no longer put up with poor Switch ports.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

How optimized are most UE4 games on Switch? The game is mostly playable at this point but it’s pretty clear there’s something going on internally where either they’re targeting the wrong resolution, doing some horribly inefficient things (good lord load times with the occasional crash which I suspect might be a memory leak somewhere), or something else where an experience Switch UE4 developer might have handled it better.

My hope is that when the sequel is inevitably announced they’ll have prioritized Switch as the lead platform and built on that foundation for the other platforms. Instead of the reverse where they seemed to have prioritized the more powerful platforms and then made the necessary technical compromises to get it to run on Switch.

Unreal Engine 4 games run pretty poorly on Switch, unless they are running on a bespoke fork of the engine specifically designed for Switch (such as with DQXIS)

 

[Hailinel]

Even at launch, I never really had issues with the Switch version (KS backer here). Somehow, I managed to avoid all of the crashes, including those that were common to all platforms.

But the quality of the game comes down to the simple fact that they got a late development start. Initially, the plan was for a Wii U version that was to be developed by a separate team, but with the Wii U being the Wii U, that idea was scrapped when the Switch became a thing. So the Switch port was comparatively rushed. It was clearly evident that they didn't expect the Switch version to be the best-selling version of the game, but once they did, they spent the better part of the launch year fixing it up. It's always going to lag behind other platform versions in some ways regardless, but even so, I wouldn't say that it's bad. It's entirely playable.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

The game was definitely rough on the Switch. Playable, maybe, but this is one of the few games I wish I got on the PS4 instead

 

[Dineren]

It's a shame to hear it's still a bit of a mess on Switch. I played through it on PC not too long ago and it's one of my favorite games in the genre. Hopefully they'll have the time/money needed to make sure the Switch version of the second game is in great shape at release. Assuming it has a Switch version of course, but I can't imagine they would skip it considering how well the first game did on it.

 

[shoptroll]

Unreal Engine 4 games run pretty poorly on Switch, unless they are running on a bespoke fork of the engine specifically designed for Switch (such as with DQXIS)

Is that the same version that TWEWY and OT use? Aside from Bloodstained those are the only 3rd party UE4 titles I have on Switch, and they run decently.

 

[VHS]

I honestly... do not like this game. I am a huge Vania fan, especially Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. But this game just felt so off to me in every way... hoping the sequel has a higher budget and resonates with me more.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

Is that the same version that TWEWY and OT use? Aside from Bloodstained those are the only 3rd party UE4 titles I have on Switch, and they run decently.

NTWEWY doesn't use Unreal, but OT isn't too demanding to be fair

 

[kimbo99]

It actually sold better on Switch than it did on PS4 and Xbox One.

Similar to what happened with Sonic colors, I hate when this happens.

 

[Legion of Primes]

I was considering checking this out in the future. I was interested in more metroidvanias after dread and this game did always interested me. But not sure on switch based on what op said on the switch version and it’s issues. It is a game I rather play on it and I do have access to other systems to play it so tough choice to decide

 

[karmitt]

I tried to play it on Series X and really didn't like it. I'm not sure if that's more me not enjoying Castlevania style games, or something about this game - I don't have any history with the franchise.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

I tried to play it on Series X and really didn't like it. I'm not sure if that's more me not enjoying Castlevania style games, or something about this game - I don't have any history with the franchise.

I honestly... do not like this game. I am a huge Vania fan, especially Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. But this game just felt so off to me in every way... hoping the sequel has a higher budget and resonates with me more.

I found it weak relative to games like SotN and AoS so I don't blame you guys for not being super into it. I think it's a pretty average entry at best. Could just be because the Switch port is pretty bad but I don't wanna re-buy the game to make sure

 

[karmitt]

I found it weak relative to games like SotN and AoS so I don't blame you guys for not being super into it. I think it's a pretty average entry at best. Could just be because the Switch port is pretty bad but I don't wanna re-buy the game to make sure

It was on game pass when I tried it out - might still be?. Kind of glad I didn't buy it outright like I'd been contemplating for a while

 

[VHS]

I found it weak relative to games like SotN and AoS so I don't blame you guys for not being super into it. I think it's a pretty average entry at best. Could just be because the Switch port is pretty bad but I don't wanna re-buy the game to make sure

Yeah, played on switch, xbox with gamepass and the PC from the humble monthly. It just does not click with me at all.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

It was on game pass when I tried it out - might still be?. Kind of glad I didn't buy it outright like I'd been contemplating for a while

Oh so you lucked out then. If you still have any interest in the exact same type of game, I'd recommend trying out the Castlevania Advance Collection for AoS

Yeah, played on switch, xbox with gamepass and the PC from the humble monthly. It just does not click with me at all.

Yeah, it kinda disappointed me. I'm hoping that, if we get a sequel, it's much better...and the Switch version isn't an afterthought

 

[fiendcode]

Even at launch, I never really had issues with the Switch version (KS backer here). Somehow, I managed to avoid all of the crashes, including those that were common to all platforms.

But the quality of the game comes down to the simple fact that they got a late development start. Initially, the plan was for a Wii U version that was to be developed by a separate team, but with the Wii U being the Wii U, that idea was scrapped when the Switch became a thing. So the Switch port was comparatively rushed. It was clearly evident that they didn't expect the Switch version to be the best-selling version of the game, but once they did, they spent the better part of the launch year fixing it up. It's always going to lag behind other platform versions in some ways regardless, but even so, I wouldn't say that it's bad. It's entirely playable.

I remember hearing the basically hired Wayforward after launch to get it to a decent state.

 

[Hailinel]

I remember hearing the basically hired Wayforward after launch to get it to a decent state.

I thought WayForward was involved before launch?

 

[Seik]

My first Kickstarter game! I'll be honest here, I played the Switch version raw -> no update, version 1.00 EDIT: 0.01 (lol) at launch to completion and I was honestly not that disappointed with it. Don't ask me why I did that, I'm weird.




However, I bought it on PC and PS4 for a heavily discounted price later on and I never came back to it for obvious reasons. I can certainly understand why you feel like that after playing Dread. I would still recommend it to someone who just has a Switch though, its gameplay excellence far outweighs its technical difficulties.

 

[Sailor Moon]

This was my first Kickstarter game and I was really disappointed in how it ran. I expected the lower resolution/frame rate, but at launch it crashed on me so often I had to wait for the first couple of patches just to finish it.

It runs much better now, but I’d still pick any version to play over it unless you’re Switch only or have to have it handheld.

 

[Phendrift]

I honestly... do not like this game. I am a huge Vania fan, especially Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. But this game just felt so off to me in every way... hoping the sequel has a higher budget and resonates with me more

I found it weak relative to games like SotN and AoS so I don't blame you guys for not being super into it. I think it's a pretty average entry at best. Could just be because the Switch port is pretty bad but I don't wanna re-buy the game to make sure

Hmmm, I was thinking of getting this. What does it do poorly compared to igavanias? I love SotN and Aria and like HOD

 

[SuperFakerBros]

Hmmm, I was thinking of getting this. What does it do poorly compared to igavanias? I love SotN and Aria and like HOD

I think a lot of it may just have to do with visual style and how poorly the Switch version runs. I found those games to be much more visually appealing and a smooth experience whereas the bit of input delay, unappealing visual style, and frame dips stood out like a sore thumb here. I also just might find them a bit better designed or at least more compact, I'd we're mainly talking about AoS

If you get it on another system, you'll probably like it way more than I did as the game will be a better experience overall and a lot of folk do still enjoy it

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

Hmmm, I was thinking of getting this. What does it do poorly compared to igavanias? I love SotN and Aria and like HOD

Tbh, in terms of pure mechanics and structure, I would argue it is the best for its time other than SotN. But it runs pretty poorly (even poorer at launch which I assume coloured some opinions about it around then). If you are interested in it, I do think it's worth checking out.

 

[Phendrift]

I think a lot of it may just have to do with visual style and how poorly the Switch version runs. I found those games to be much more visually appealing and a smooth experience whereas the bit of input delay, unappealing visual style, and frame dips stood out like a sore thumb here. I also just might find them a bit better designed or at least more compact, I'd we're mainly talking about AoS

If you get it on another system, you'll probably like it way more than I did as the game will be a better experience overall and a lot of folk do still enjoy it

Tbh, in terms of pure mechanics and structure, I would argue it is the best for its time other than SotN. But it runs pretty poorly (even poorer at launch which I assume coloured some opinions about it around then). If you are interested in it, I do think it's worth checking out.

Ahh yeah performance doesn’t really bother me so I should be fine! Will probably get it soon

Spoiler

though what I really want are the DS games : (

 

[SuperFakerBros]

Ahh yeah performance doesn’t really bother me so I should be fine! Will probably get it soon

Spoiler

though what I really want are the DS games : (

Oh I'm usually a bit more tolerant of it than others online but a few areas were outright dreadful. Still, if you do prefer playing portable and are fine with it, I think you can have a great time

Ahh never ever got around to those so I'd love to have them on a modern system

 

[NabiscoFelt]

Hmmm, I was thinking of getting this. What does it do poorly compared to igavanias? I love SotN and Aria and like HOD

Bloodstained, imo, was a bloated mess of a game when I played it (on XBox). Felt like a case of a developer wanting to fit as many mechanics as possible into a game but doing very little to actually justify their inclusion, and all as part of a game that's far too short for any of them to feel like they're worth investing in. It doesn't really do much to improve the aspects of the Igavania formula that were always lacking (like the combat, which for me remains dull and clunky despite the addition of all the mostly meaningless systems) and adds to its biggest problems (the randomization of so many elements, now even tied to basic game progression). I can certainly understand why people like it, since there's arguably a good deal of mechanical complexity there and it has a lot of the feel of a typical Igavania, but it's my least favorite Metroidvania and it makes me think that the older Igavanias (like SoTN and Aria) only ended up as great as they were because Igarashi had people to hold his ideas in check.

Though, even despite that mini-rant I wouldn't want to discourage you or others from checking it out, if you're a bigger fan of the Igavania formula than I am you'll likely have a great time. It's basically just that formula taken to the logical extreme, which for me was a negative since I'm not a fan of the formula in general, but might not be that way for you.

 

[xghost777]

I had my big Metroidvania kick the moment Dread was announced and this was the last one I played before Dread released. I had heard it was running badly on Switch (I think it was slightly delayed too?) so I got it on PS4 back at launch. Anyway I played it on PS5 ultimately with the latest patches and it definitely doesn’t run as well as you might want or expect considering the kind of game it is with relatively long load times and quite a few glitches still too. One of my favorite spells (the water ball) would literally stop working every time you changed certain equipment and you had to re-equip the spell to get it to work properly again.

I hadn’t played an Igavania before outside of 30 minutes of Symphony of the Night and ultimately I had a good time. Poking around the castle to find new areas was fun, crafting was cool, and I largely really enjoyed the bosses even though a few of them I could just tank through. I hope if they make a sequel they target Switch or the next Switch first.

 

[SiG]

Bloodstained on Switch at launch was terrible...but now? I don't think it's so bad as people claim it to be.

I managed to finish the game and in fact it runs much, much better than it's initial release. The muddiness is all but gone now. But I do believe it could be optimized even further. Here's hoping IGA could maybe rope in Panic Button, Iron Galaxy, Feral or Saber Interactive to further optimize the game.

 

[Garlic]

To be honest, it runs fine on Switch. Like it's obviously a subpar port, but it's perfectly adequate. It's just, if you expect more from it, you'll be disappointed.

It ran much, much worse at launch. Smeared, blurry image quality, 20-30 second loading times between rooms (god help you if you fell back down a vertical transition), single digit framerates in certain areas, crashes that would lose you 10-20 minutes of progress happening constantly. It made me feel like a sucker for getting it as my backer version, it was pushed out in a frankly unacceptable state. I'm gonna think twice about getting Bloodstained 2 at launch

 

[SiG]

It ran much, much worse at launch. Smeared, blurry image quality, 20-30 second loading times between rooms (god help you if you fell back down a vertical transition), single digit framerates in certain areas, crashes that would lose you 10-20 minutes of progress happening constantly. It made me feel like a sucker for getting it as my backer version, it was pushed out in a frankly unacceptable state. I'm gonna think twice about getting Bloodstained 2 at launch

Why do people then act as if this was still the case? Post-launch patches have done a lot to make the game run from terrible to a okay/much better state.

 

[Zellia]

The buzz about the poor performance convinced me to get it on PC instead - shame since I do enjoy portability for games such as these.

I enjoyed it. It wasn't amazing and was kinda ugly but it was a solid Igavania with a bunch of neat extra modes added in after launch. If the Switch version sold the best then it seems reasonable to make that the lead platform for the sequel.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Similar to what happened with Sonic colors, I hate when this happens.

Of course games like bloodstained and sonic sell better on switch. That's where the audience is for those titles. Most people really don't care about technical capabilities/performance as much as your typical videogame forum goer.

Igavanias were Nintendo exclusive for most of their run, so why the Nintendo console wasn't the lead platform in the first place... Well, that's probably the Wii U's fault for being such a poor seller Vs the PS4, but hopefully a problem that won't repeat with Bloodstained 2 surely being s switch designed game first and foremost

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

Igavanias were Nintendo exclusive for most of their run, so why the Nintendo console wasn't the lead platform in the first place... Well, that's probably the Wii U's fault for being such a poor seller Vs the PS4

Hell, Wii U was one if the lastest kickstarter goals, it wasn't originally in the cards and when it was it seemed like the idea was to NOT reach it.

In general, the whole campaign felt like a huge fuck you to Nintendo users, and the Switch version is clearly aj afterthought.

The Switch version should have been the base build and then improve from there instead of downporting.

 

[Deleted member 1141]

From what I understand and you can take this with a grain of salt unless otherwise stated: Bloodstained had been developed in mind of a build of UE4 that had no optimizations or real ease-of-porting to Nintendo Switch. Upgrading the version of Unreal Engine likely could result in serious issues and/or possibly breaking the game, so I'd imagine efforts to getting it run on whatever-build they had used for Unreal Engine 4 and getting it stabilized was the priority. We've seen games arguably doing more running MUCH better, even if resolution of said games was a bit questionable and it definitely comes down to what optimizations were available to the developer, as well as being allowed to tweak the internals of the systems at a source code level.

I'm going to assume if a sequel does come out on Nintendo Switch, it shouldn't have anywhere near as many issues as this version of the game had, both given experiences working on this and assuming they'll be updating the Unreal Engine 4 build to a latter build for base development. And as people have mentioned, the current build of the Nintendo Switch version, going from some quick playthrough I did recently to show a friend of mine some stuff, seems to be in a much better place than when I initially played it shortly after launch (input lag has been significantly reduced, load times seem improved a bit, etc.), The Twin Dragon Towers still seem a bit messy, but even the developers admitted that there was little they could do, just simply because of how they designed the area to begin with.

That said, I don't blame anyone holding off on the Switch version for Bloodstained 2 until initial impressions are made. When I got the Switch version in (was a backer, by the way), while I put up with it, definitely was unacceptable at times. Platforming was the part that I struggled the most, combination of the input lag and my disabilities making it even worse, due to having a slower reaction time.

Most crashes seemed to happen with examining the bookshelves (while this bug was present on every non-PC build, it seemed to affect the Switch THE most, and if it didn't crash, it'd cause the game to slow down to a crawl, suggesting it was a memory leak of sorts) and I also had one crash doing Alchemist stuff. One of the Bookshelf crashes was frustrating since I lost a bit of time as a result of it happening. Oddly, a late boss fight that caused serious problems for PS4 and Xbox players, was largely locked to 30fps, but seems they took into account the one ability would reek havoc on the Switch.