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Fun Club Bit of a rant about PLA's throwing of Pokemon and the future of it in Pokemon.

EddyZacianLand

EddyZacianLand

Bob-omb
Banned
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On the other site, I have seen people criticise Gamefreak for possibly removing the throwing of a Pokemon to initiate a battle and instead running into the Pokemon, saying throwing a Pokemon should be a mainstay.

I am actually gonna disagree hard here and praise Gamefreak for reverting back to how it was pre PLA because how it is in PLA is actually more inaccessible than how it was pre PLA, I can testify to that fact personally.

I have severe dyspraxia which makes aiming in video games, really difficult to near impossible for me, so PLA was actually super difficult for me and I ended up putting it down by the time I got to the second area.

I really really hope that the aiming and throwing of the Pokemon never returned, unless it's a Legends game, so I know to skip it.

All of the people who are saying that the throwing of the Pokemon should be a mainstay, don't realise that it makes the game inaccessible for me and plenty of others too and I would hope that if they knew about this, they would reconsider their position on it, because I want to enjoy Pokemon for the rest of my life and having the throwing of a Pokemon in there as a mainstay, would make that impossible for me.
 
I expect a Safari Zone like area in the game where that catching mechanic is enabled, since it does add some variety to the gameplay and meshes well with using traps and lures, but can be ignored entirely for those who have issues with it.
 
Bowser Sr. said:
But I want to throw the ball. You want to deny me the right to throw a ball just because of your situation? How selfish!
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Comic Obsessed said:
I guess we're bound to keep catching Pokemon like it was 1998.
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Well if you would prefer that the games become more inaccessible then sure.
Serif said:
I expect a Safari Zone like area in the game where that catching mechanic is enabled, since it does add some variety to the gameplay and meshes well with using traps and lures, but can be ignored entirely for those who have issues with it.
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That's more than fine with me, I just don't want it to be how you start battles, because it's impossible for me to do.
 
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I personally liked that part of the gameplay, but not enough to be upset at it being gone (or at least, not yet added to the main series, since PLA and SV were in development at the same time), and I don't think its addition is worth locking out players who can't use it.

It'd be a different conversation if it was optional, but that also wasn't the case with the motion controls in Let's Go, so I wouldn't expect it. Maybe we'll get some sort of middle ground or something different yet again? Either way I hope it works out for you, OP.
 
It should absolutely be a mainstay, but they should just make it optional in the "traditional" games like Scarlet/Violet. Since Pokemon don't seem to attack you like they did in Legends, just let the player run into them and start a battle or throw the Pokemon at them for immersion. You can even keep the back attack bonuses, just give the same bonus for running into them from behind.
 
But couldn't you just throw one of your Pokemon at them to initiate a fight and then catch the Pokemon the normal way? That rarely involved any aiming beyond walking to a position relatively close to the Pokemon and orienting your character in their direction. Arceus' aiming mechanic didn't replace the previous mode of catching Pokemon, it just added to it.
 
paranoodle said:
I personally liked that part of the gameplay, but not enough to be upset at it being gone (or at least, not yet added to the main series, since PLA and SV were in development at the same time), and I don't think its addition is worth locking out players who can't use it.

It'd be a different conversation if it was optional, but that also wasn't the case with the motion controls in Let's Go, so I wouldn't expect it. Maybe we'll get some sort of middle ground or something different yet again? Either way I hope it works out for you, OP.
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If they could somehow still use the system but without the aiming, I would be fine with it, since its the aiming that I can't do.
 
dyle said:
But couldn't you just throw one of your Pokemon at them to initiate a fight and then catch the Pokemon the normal way? That rarely involved any aiming beyond walking to a position relatively close to the Pokemon. Arceus' aiming mechanic didn't replace the previous mode of catching Pokemon, it just added to it.
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Nope, in order to start a battle you had to aim the pokeball at the Pokemon, you couldn't start it by just running into the Pokemon.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
If they could somehow still use the system but without the aiming, I would be fine with it, since its the aiming that I can't do.
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If they were to implement an Arceus-like system in other main games, you would most likely have Pokémon battles initiated through overworld contact as symbol encounters, as with most other RPGs. There wouldn't be a health mechanic for the player character directly, so all contact or Pokémon attacks in the overworld would do is force a regular battle.
 
I liked it but it made it too easy to outsmart the Pokemon. There were times when I was at a super low level and would sneak up on Alphas and catch them using berries and great balls. If they kept that in SV, then the game would not be difficult.
 
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EddyZacianLand said:
Nope, in order to start a battle you had to aim the pokeball at the Pokemon, you couldn't start it by just running into the Pokemon.
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But you don't have to hit the Pokemon with the ball. The game gives you a gigantic leeway for where the ball needs to be to activate the battle. I would even start battles accidentaly sometimes because I threw the ball on the floor but didn't know a geodude was nearby.
 
I just think PLA and S/V are going for different things. PLA is all about mass quick catching. S/V is about the battle and getting it down with moves and then catching.
 
Bowser Sr. said:
But you don't have to hit the Pokemon with the ball. The game gives you a gigantic leeway for where the ball needs to be to activate the battle. I would even start battles accidentaly sometimes because I threw the ball on the floor but didn't know a geodude was nearby.
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Are you seriously trying to debate with someone that has a physical condition to tell them that their personal experience is wrong and that they just weren't trying hard enough?
 
Trying to use the heavy Pokéballs or trying to hit a flying Pokémon with the lighter ones didn't feel exactly ideal in Legends Arceus tbh

It's possible to make things feel a bit more involved without using aiming, like maybe keeping the initial turn bonus when you surprise a wild Pokémon, but this time only depending on the angle you approach them instead. Maybe allow to place lures where you're standing

And yep maybe they had the accessibility issues in mind when planning the new gen
 
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I think the best solution would be to make it a Z-target like action. You lock-on to the pokemon and unlike PLA the poke ball just goes straight to the pokemon instead of locking on and still having free aim, more Ocarina of Time Z target than BOTW lock-on. That's just my two cents.
 
Gabev said:
I think the best solution would be to make it a Z-target like action. You lock-on to the pokemon and unlike PLA the poke ball just goes straight to the pokemon instead of locking on and still having free aim, more Ocarina of Time Z target than BOTW lock-on. That's just my two cents.
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Yeah, I don't like having to aim Pokeballs, but a lock-on system where I just hold down a button and flick the joycon/analog stick would be a fun compromise.
 
Clix said:
I just think PLA and S/V are going for different things. PLA is all about mass quick catching. S/V is about the battle and getting it down with moves and then catching.
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Yeah that’s the thing, PLA is all about catching Pokemon so it makes sense to tie to a breezy action.

I have no intention of catching flocks of Fletchlings in S/V so the old way is fine.
 
I personally liked the aiming system and was hoping it returned for the new game. Aiming is a pretty important part of gaming, so it's hard to find a balanced mechanic that would work for someone like the OP but also still require a player to aim. I supposed having two types of Pokemon games works in that case.
 
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Lord Azrael said:
Are you seriously trying to debate with someone that has a physical condition to tell them that their personal experience is wrong and that they just weren't trying hard enough?
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You would be wrong with your assumption. I am just telling him that not even in that game is there a need to aim the ball to start battles, which is a moot point anyway since Gamefreak could just have a game where both "throw ball or touch monster" options are available, thus there is no reason to act like the people criticizing the lack of the mechanic are being inconsiderate of OP and those that share his condition, nor do they need to reconsider their position.
The company in charge of the game could easily include both options and the game would play identically, and they have the resources to make it happen too.
 
meatbag said:
Yeah that’s the thing, PLA is all about catching Pokemon so it makes sense to tie to a breezy action.

I have no intention of catching flocks of Fletchlings in S/V so the old way is fine.
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Yeah same. I catch one and move on lol Only times I have multiples is when I’m trying to breed a female or male or getting a core member of my line up to have bonus to certain stats.
 
Bowser Sr. said:
You would be wrong with your assumption. I am just telling him that not even in that game is there a need to aim the ball to start battles, which is a moot point anyway since Gamefreak could just have a game where both "throw ball or touch monster" options are available, thus there is no reason to act like the people criticizing the lack of the mechanic are being inconsiderate of OP and those that share his condition, nor do they need to reconsider their position.
The company in charge of the game could easily include both options and the game would play identically, and they have the resources to make it happen too.
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Okay but they didn't... and OP suffered for it. So I'm not sure how hypothesizing what Game Freak could do is helping anyone
 
Lord Azrael said:
Okay but they didn't... and OP suffered for it. So I'm not sure how hypothesizing what Game Freak could do is helping anyone
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OP straight up said that those that wanted a mechanic to return are neglecting his needs, despite the way battles initiate in the game he was complaining about being something that you can engage with instantly with no need for aiming, just "stand next to monster and press the button". We are not going to help anyone either way in a thread on Famiboards that the developers won't read anyway, I just find it weird to act like there is some kind of lack of empathy in this situation going on. Acessibilities options are great and OP is within his right to look out for his own needs and interests, but so are other players, specially in this specific context where we have verifiable proof that both methods could work easily and seamlessly.
 
Bowser Sr. said:
But you don't have to hit the Pokemon with the ball. The game gives you a gigantic leeway for where the ball needs to be to activate the battle. I would even start battles accidentaly sometimes because I threw the ball on the floor but didn't know a geodude was nearby.
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I don't think you understand how severe my disability is, I can't even do that.
 
I'd be fine with making Legends its own series and intentionally market it towards older fans. Make it the new "secondary" series after the end of the "remake series". They should keep manual throw in that series given that they've established that modern Pokéballs are homing. Though if people don't want to use motion controls to aim, a toggleable aim assist like most shooters could work fine.
 
Quillion said:
I'd be fine with making Legends its own series and intentionally market it towards older fans. Make it the new "secondary" series after the end of the "remake series". They should keep manual throw in that series given that they've established that modern Pokéballs are homing. Though if people don't want to use motion controls to aim, a toggleable aim assist like most shooters could work fine.
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If its only in the Legends side series then that's fine, you can hog wild with it idc.
I would just take an issue if it was present in the main series too.
 
thoughthaver said:
the other site lives in a perpetual state of outrage at this point. wouldnt be bothered by what they think. not like they have that much influence anyway.
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Is "the other site" GAF, ERA, or GameFAQS? You may say "yes" if any of those count.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
On the other site, I have seen people criticise Gamefreak for possibly removing the throwing of a Pokemon to initiate a battle and instead running into the Pokemon, saying throwing a Pokemon should be a mainstay.

I am actually gonna disagree hard here and praise Gamefreak for reverting back to how it was pre PLA because how it is in PLA is actually more inaccessible than how it was pre PLA, I can testify to that fact personally.

I have severe dyspraxia which makes aiming in video games, really difficult to near impossible for me, so PLA was actually super difficult for me and I ended up putting it down by the time I got to the second area.

I really really hope that the aiming and throwing of the Pokemon never returned, unless it's a Legends game, so I know to skip it.

All of the people who are saying that the throwing of the Pokemon should be a mainstay, don't realise that it makes the game inaccessible for me and plenty of others too and I would hope that if they knew about this, they would reconsider their position on it, because I want to enjoy Pokemon for the rest of my life and having the throwing of a Pokemon in there as a mainstay, would make that impossible for me.
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Out of curiosity — would a setting that let you single-button toggle a hard lock-on make PLA more accessible for you and others in your situation?
 
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I also have dyspraxia and struggle with aiming in games, not to the extent of you (I've put like 200 hours into the Halo franchise and 100 into Splatoon, though I suck at them and have to play the Halo campaigns on easy and am usually the worst scoring person on my team), but yeah this was something that really made Legends Arceus unenjoyable for me. I also happen to think that everything involving the mechanics of catching Pokemon in that game is kinda poor since it turns it at least partially into a stealth game which I also dislike.
 
Someone on the old place made a valid point. Because just being perpetually negative and outraged over such trivial things, especially when GF is making the games they want to make and not what some people want and that’s not going to change in the end. It’s fruitless wasted energy.

I loved Arceus. But it’s not what I want out of a mainline Pokémon game. I like my turn based battles classic Pokémon style.

The only thing I would like is faster text, especially when it comes to status and environmental damages.

That said, this poster made a good point. It’s okay if a series stops being for you. It’s okay if it’s not what you want. It’s okay if you out grow something. Move on.

This ain’t to dismiss criticism at all. I have quite a few in most entries even if I enjoy them. Sun and Moon to me are the pinnacle of the series regarding structure, story, setting, art direction. But I also did not like how they did the online in it after X/Y. It was just lifeless compared to the PPS system which made the world feel alive in a way.

And they really need to speed up the battle text overall in past games.

I enjoyed 75 percent of Sword and Shield. The last 25 percent I didn’t enjoy was the last 1/4 of the game that felt disjointed. But I liked it better than X/Y and R/S by a good margin.

I just think there’s nothing to stop one from moving on if it’s not what they want. There’s other good monster raising games out there. Give them a shot.

But I’m tired of such a narrow focused discourse where that’s all that is talked about in a thread. Don’t need 20 pages about a tree or about slow battle text or lazy dev rhetoric or how the main gen games should be like PLA.

Also I must feel like I took crazy pills because I find every game even Red and Blue has been piss easy except for the elite four. Maybe because I started playing them when I was 17 or 18 for the first time, but I never once found them challenging.
 
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this is a thread about game accessibility for the physically handicapped

why the fuck is it garbage galaxy
 
Raccoon said:
this is a thread about game accessibility for the physically handicapped

why the fuck is it garbage galaxy
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With respect for your valid concern here, I think it's worth approaching this question with a bit more tact. I completely agree that the discussion is important to have, but tags are at the discretion of the member, and that's the one EddyZacianLand chose. I don't know the reasoning, but I also don't want to make assumptions. As he's the one who has opted to share his accessibility struggles to begin with, I think it's worth at least employing a bit more decorum, in posing your question.
 
Aurc said:
With respect for your valid concern here, I think it's worth approaching this question with a bit more tact. I completely agree that the discussion is important to have, but tags are at the discretion of the member, and that's the one EddyZacianLand chose. I don't know the reasoning, but I also don't want to make assumptions. As he's the one who has opted to share his accessibility struggles to begin with, I think it's worth at least employing a bit more decorum, in posing your question.
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You're right. I lost my patience with the tag in general and shouldn't have gotten so upset about one person's use of it.
 
Raccoon said:
You're right. I lost my patience with the tag in general and shouldn't have gotten so upset about one person's use of it.
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Understandable! I totally get it. I can appreciate the post you made regarding the Garbage Galaxy tag in Site Feedback and Suggestions, too, but that's really a conversation for wider staff (and all of us as members, really, since I get how the tag can come across, and it's a valid conversation to have, in general).
 
EddyZacianLand said:
All of the people who are saying that the throwing of the Pokemon should be a mainstay, don't realise that it makes the game inaccessible for me and plenty of others too and I would hope that if they knew about this, they would reconsider their position on it, because I want to enjoy Pokemon for the rest of my life and having the throwing of a Pokemon in there as a mainstay, would make that impossible for me.
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Accessibility is good, but at some point it's still a net loss if the accessible way makes the gameplay less appealing to an unaffected majority. There are better ways to compromise than forever gating out changes, like maybe an auto-aim option in this case.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Accessibility is good, but at some point it's still a net loss if the accessible way makes the gameplay less appealing to an unaffected majority. There are better ways to compromise than forever gating out changes, like maybe an auto-aim option in this case.
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Even if the franchise's selling point is accessible for all?
Also I don't really see the appeal in aiming at all. Pokemon doesn't need it.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Accessibility is good, but at some point it's still a net loss if the accessible way makes the gameplay less appealing to an unaffected majority.
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The issue with this statement is if the aiming really is “less appealing to an unaffected majority.” You’re gonna need receipts for that. Based on sales it seems like people are fine either way.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
Even if the franchise's selling point is accessible for all?
Also I don't really see the appeal in aiming at all. Pokemon doesn't need it.
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You may not like, nor think that pokemon needs aiming. However, the aiming in Pokémon Legends is one of the fan favorite mechanics of that game. It helped both its critical and fan reception, and the majority of people found it really amazing.

There are way better things to ask for in accessibility rather than completely gutting or axing mechanics. If accessibility is the main draw, then maybe an auto aim function, maybe make it possible to start a battle without a pokemon, maybe have a plethora of other options.

The reason why Scarlet and Violet don't have the mechanic is because arceus and them were made at the same time. In future generations, I can definitely see the throwing mechanics staying. So in terms of viability, and everything, you have two options. You can keep saying throwing mechanics need to be cut, and when that doesn't happen you will have the Pokemon community spiteful. Or, you can make known your disability, and let the community come around and request options for the future without cutting such a fan favorite feature. Just food for thought. As I think the latter is much more helpful.
 
Lozjam said:
You may not like, nor think that pokemon needs aiming. However, the aiming in Pokémon Legends is one of the fan favorite mechanics of that game. It helped both its critical and fan reception, and the majority of people found it really amazing.

There are way better things to ask for in accessibility rather than completely gutting or axing mechanics. If accessibility is the main draw, then maybe an auto aim function, maybe make it possible to start a battle without a pokemon, maybe have a plethora of other options.

The reason why Scarlet and Violet don't have the mechanic is because arceus and them were made at the same time. In future generations, I can definitely see the throwing mechanics staying. So in terms of viability, and everything, you have two options. You can keep saying throwing mechanics need to be cut, and when that doesn't happen you will have the Pokemon community spiteful. Or, you can make known your disability, and let the community come around and request options for the future without cutting such a fan favorite feature. Just food for thought. As I think the latter is much more helpful.
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This is the same Gamefreak that hid audio options behind a random npc and took away the toggle for exp share. Do you really think Gamefreak would add accessibility options??
 
I wouldn't be worried about it becoming a mainstay feature unless they rework the structure of the mainline games. Legends aiming and throwing is there to reduce the frustration of grinding to complete a Pokedex entry since that is essentially the only goal you work towards in the game and is designed in a way of "catch this many of this", there are other tasks, but catching a lot of Pokemon is the main loop of gameplay. As long as mainline games require a single catch for the Pokedex entry, due to having goals beyond the completion of it like the main story being revolved around combat, team building, etc. there is very little reason to add the feature I feel. And honestly I don't see the appeal of that for a main game, is not like when I'm playing idk, Dragon Quest I think to myself "man, if I could aim and throw my sword at that slime that would improve this turn based RPG for me a lot".
 
Twilight said:
I wouldn't be worried about it becoming a mainstay feature unless they rework the structure of the mainline games. Legends aiming and throwing is there to reduce the frustration of grinding to complete a Pokedex entry since that is essentially the only goal you work towards in the game and is designed in a way of "catch this many of this", there are other tasks, but catching a lot of Pokemon is the main loop of gameplay. As long as mainline games require a single catch for the Pokedex entry, due to having goals beyond the completion of it like the main story being revolved around combat, team building, etc. there is very little reason to add the feature I feel. And honestly I don't see the appeal of that for a main game, is not like when I'm playing idk, Dragon Quest I think to myself "man, if I could aim and throw my sword at that slime that would improve this turn based RPG for me a lot".
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That's what I think, why can't it be the mainstay of Legends games and leave the main games out of it
 
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meatbag said:
The issue with this statement is if the aiming really is “less appealing to an unaffected majority.” You’re gonna need receipts for that. Based on sales it seems like people are fine either way.
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I definitely can't back that up. But I assume that they wouldn't actively make major changes they thought people wouldn't like.
EddyZacianLand said:
This is the same Gamefreak that hid audio options behind a random npc and took away the toggle for exp share. Do you really think Gamefreak would add accessibility options??
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I mean, as long as you're dreaming of Gamefreak being kind enough to do what you want, might as well dream of them being kind enough to do what we both want.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I definitely can't back that up. But I assume that they wouldn't actively make major changes they thought people wouldn't like.

I mean, as long as you're dreaming of Gamefreak being kind enough to do what you want, might as well dream of them being kind enough to do what we both want.
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And why do you think it will come to the main games and have it not be separate Legends series??
 
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